From to5bwy502 at sneakemail.com Mon Sep 1 01:10:27 2008 From: to5bwy502 at sneakemail.com (Charles) Date: Mon Sep 1 01:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Where's John, eh? References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote in news:Xns9B098E26B54CBsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61: > depends on how bored I am whether I show up here. Hmm. I'm pretty sure I'm taking this the right way and sheesh! Hmm. More tweaks needed, here... -- May as well say something here. There. Doesn't that feel better? From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 1 06:08:29 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 1 06:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9fgtl$sit$1@news.spamcop.net... | So the latest is that Sara Palin didn't give birth to her fifth child this | year, the child is actually her daughter's child and she covered up her | pregnancy by claming the child was hers and keeping her daughter out of | school for five months with "mono". The whole story kind of smells bad, | like there may actually be something to it....photos and all... | http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223 | There were some pictures of her in previous months on the Alaska government | site, but oddly, they were taken down yesterday. | Sad thing is that her teenage daughter is going to get dragged through the | mud, whether it's true or not, because the press isn't about to let it go. | >From what I've been reading if that's all that hits the fan she'll be lucky. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 1 08:57:41 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 1 09:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9gfjd$mmn$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > From what I've been reading if that's all that hits the fan she'll be > lucky. What else have you heard? Dish! From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 1 09:31:52 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 1 09:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Jon Stewart... Message-ID: never misses...... http://www.examiner.com/x-243-Progressive-Politics-Examiner~y2008m8d31-The-Daily-Show-and-Sarah-Palin What's most appalling about that video is the clip from Fox News with them stating that Sara Palin knows about "foreign policy" because Alaska is closest to Russia. And then Cindy McCain just repeated the same damn thing on tv, also crowing about Sara's PTA experience as something that qualifies her for the VP job. I don't know what kind of Koolaid these people are brewing, but it should be banned as a lethal brain toxin..... From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 1 15:13:04 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 1 15:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Heidi" | > | > | > From what I've been reading if that's all that hits the fan she'll be | > lucky. | | What else have you heard? Dish! | This from CNN http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ The rest I'm hearing is speculation, may have some fact but not fair to put it out until it's been better vetted. From dfmanno at mail.com Mon Sep 1 16:38:04 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Mon Sep 1 16:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Frog Prince" wrote: > The rest I'm hearing is speculation, may have some fact but not fair to put > it out until it's been better vetted. Why? That's never stopped Rove & Co. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From dfmanno at mail.com Mon Sep 1 16:49:37 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Mon Sep 1 16:50:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Inexplicable...Sara WHO? References: Message-ID: In article , "Mike Easter" wrote: > How confusing it must be for those who are otherwise confused about > abortion issues to see a pro-choicer who at age 44 decided to continue her > Down's Syndrome pregnancy. Palin's not pro-choice. Far from it. She's staunchly anti-abortion rights and a member of "Feminists for Life." FFL believes that abortion is unacceptable under _any_ circumstances. Been raped and got pregnant? Tough - have the baby. Family member sexually abused you and you got pregnant? Tough - have the baby. Giving birth will kill you? Tough - have the baby. We'll pray for you. FFL classifies the morning-after pill as an abortifacient. It refuses to take a stand on other contraceptives. As far as her ideology is concerned, she had no choice but to have the baby. And she would favor ensuring that no other woman had a choice, either. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 1 16:49:48 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 1 16:50:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" | | > The rest I'm hearing is speculation, may have some fact but not fair to put | > it out until it's been better vetted. | | Why? That's never stopped Rove & Co. First I'm not Rove & Co. Second it's not right (a bit redundant considering the denial of being Rove & Co.) From Ag2000CO at Starband.net Mon Sep 1 17:27:16 2008 From: Ag2000CO at Starband.net (LKing) Date: Mon Sep 1 17:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote, On 8/31/2008 9:35 PM: > So the latest is that Sara Palin didn't give birth to her fifth child this > year, the child is actually her daughter's child and she covered up her > pregnancy by claming the child was hers and keeping her daughter out of > school for five months with "mono". The whole story kind of smells bad, > like there may actually be something to it....photos and all... > http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223 > There were some pictures of her in previous months on the Alaska government > site, but oddly, they were taken down yesterday. > Sad thing is that her teenage daughter is going to get dragged through the > mud, whether it's true or not, because the press isn't about to let it go. > > Well you were close, but now that there are facts available what is your view? Or or you going to follow Oboma(sp) lead? Lou From dfmanno at mail.com Mon Sep 1 17:48:46 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Mon Sep 1 17:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Frog Prince" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" > | > | > The rest I'm hearing is speculation, may have some fact but not fair to > | > put it out until it's been better vetted. > | > | Why? That's never stopped Rove & Co. > > First I'm not Rove & Co. Second it's not right (a bit redundant considering > the denial of being Rove & Co.) I don't care if it's right or not. The GOP made the rules, so I'm going to play by them. To loftily say that I'm going to rise above partisanship while the other side does not is like bringing a wiffle- ball bat to a gunfight. It's unilateral political disarmament, and it's a loser's game. When the GOP shows that it has reformed its tactics, then and only then will I stop playing their game. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 1 18:33:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 1 18:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9hf2d$n5b$1@news.spamcop.net... > > This from CNN > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html > http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ > > The rest I'm hearing is speculation, may have some fact but not fair to > put > it out until it's been better vetted. You know what - I still think something's rotten with that story. Doesn't explain Palin's extraordinary lack of pregnancy at 7 months, doesn't explain how a "low birthweight Down syndrome child", one month premature still weighs 6.2 pounds, when they are typically 10-20% below normal baby weight at full term. Doesn't explain how someone purportedly home from school for 5-8 months (depending on what story you read) with a severe case of mono ends up pregnant (which I think would be the timeline if she's 5 months along as they say). I'm thinking sex with an enlarged spleen wouldn't be a good plan, y'think? I will agree with what StK said to me off line, that there will likely be a "miscarriage" some weeks down the line. I think there very well may have been some leaking amniotic fluid when she rushed home to Alaska to from Texas after first making her keynote speech (pictures from that event I"d love to see), but I don't think it was from her, I think it was from her daughter. What else could explain an almost 24 hour trip to get back to podunk Alaska, AFTER the amniotic sac had burst, instead of going to any one of the hospitals in Dallas?. The whole story stinks to high heaven. And McCain's story that he knew about it before hand shows that he's lying his ass off, or he most pathetically poor judgment - that knowing someone had just given birth to a handicapped child, and had a pregnant, unwed 17 year old at home, and would still choose her and throw that train wreck into the public scrutiny that goes with a campaign, well, that's just plain cruel. I feel very sorry for poor Bristol. He must have had a stroke somewhere along the way, he's totally lost his marbles, either that or all this is revenge for what Bush and Cheney did to him...in which case, well played. From Ag2000CO at Starband.net Mon Sep 1 19:54:12 2008 From: Ag2000CO at Starband.net (LKing) Date: Mon Sep 1 19:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote, On 9/1/2008 6:33 PM: > "Frog Prince" wrote in message > news:g9hf2d$n5b$1@news.spamcop.net... >> This from CNN >> >> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html >> http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ >> >> The rest I'm hearing is speculation, may have some fact but not fair to >> put >> it out until it's been better vetted. > > You know what - I still think something's rotten with that story. Well you answered my question in spades! From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 1 19:03:25 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 1 21:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Palin and more References: Message-ID: Some might be in this for malace but most I think are after the money http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tfr/822433882.html Sarah Palin Look alike (Atlanta) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to: job-822433882@craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-09-01, 3:14PM EDT We need Sarah Palin look alike for adult themed video production. a.. Location: Atlanta b.. Compensation: Per episode basis c.. This is a contract job. d.. Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster. e.. Please, no phone calls about this job! f.. Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests. PostingID: 822433882 From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 1 23:11:12 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Mon Sep 1 23:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LKing wrote: > Well you were close, but now that there are facts available what is your > view? Or or you going to follow Oboma(sp) lead? Were you born this stupid, or did you have to work at it over time? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 1 23:16:30 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Mon Sep 1 23:20:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: D.F. Manno wrote: > I don't care if it's right or not. The GOP made the rules, so I'm going > to play by them. To loftily say that I'm going to rise above > partisanship while the other side does not is like bringing a wiffle- > ball bat to a gunfight. It's unilateral political disarmament, and it's > a loser's game. > > When the GOP shows that it has reformed its tactics, then and only then > will I stop playing their game. Didn't Dan Quayle take (Candace Bergen's character) Murphy Brown to task for having a child without being married? That was just a TV show, this is the real world. Where is their self-righteous outrage now, or does their moral outrage not apply to members of their own party? From Ag2000CO at Starband.net Tue Sep 2 00:08:56 2008 From: Ag2000CO at Starband.net (LKing) Date: Tue Sep 2 00:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Republicans Are Morons wrote, On 9/1/2008 11:11 PM: > LKing wrote: > >> Well you were close, but now that there are facts available what is >> your view? Or or you going to follow Oboma(sp) lead? > > Were you born this stupid, or did you have to work at it over time? I just wondered if facts, not rumors, or Oboma's suggestion for civility would affect opinions or inform this conversation. Obviously not. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 00:20:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Tue Sep 2 00:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LKing wrote: > I just wondered if facts, not rumors, or Oboma's suggestion for civility > would affect opinions or inform this conversation. Obviously not. Civility breeds civility, heed your own advice. And while you're at it, learn how to spell "Obama". From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 06:40:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 06:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Sock Puppet Theater Message-ID: Gosh, it's been a long time since we've all been there. I'm making the popcorn, can we count on Charles and Indi to bring the beer? Maybe some mojitos and homemade salsa, mmm...that's the ticket! ;> From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:09:10 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9hf2d$n5b$1@news.spamcop.net... > > This from CNN > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html > http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ > Her unwed daughter being pregnant has what affect on her ability to be vice president (or not)? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:17:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-105740.17484601092008@news.cesmail.net... To loftily say that I'm going to rise above > partisanship while the other side does not is like bringing a wiffle- > ball bat to a gunfight. It's unilateral political disarmament, and it's > a loser's game. For one, use the right quote if you're going to use it: "Just like a wop, bringing a knife to a gunfight" . Of course, you are always at liberty to leave off the wop part if it doesn't fit. I highly disagree that taking the high road is a "losers game". You keep your mouth shut, while their dirt slingers get more and more desperate, and they look even more pathetic as they go lower and lower. It would be nice to see someone actually try to use it in politics, since it usually works in real life. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:27:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9hqk6$7i1$1@news.spamcop.net... > I'm thinking sex with an enlarged spleen wouldn't be a good plan, y'think? And having no birth control teenage sex is a good plan? > > The whole story stinks to high heaven. And McCain's story that he knew > about it before hand shows that he's lying his ass off, or he most > pathetically poor judgment He and his staff are guilty of incredibly poor judgement for nominating her to try to capture the women's vote (those women so angry with the Dems for bashing Hillary that they say they'll vote for McCain). For one, they just lost the "foreign policy experience" fight, the political experience fight in general, and they've royally PO'd a lot of smart and powerful women who have seen right thru their ploy and are writing newspaper columns and blogs about it, spreading their disdain over Palin to even MORE women. It's already blowing up in his face, can you imagine what's going to happen when Biden debates her? It will be an embarrassing slaughter.... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:29:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9j57a$a6q$1@news.spamcop.net... > Gosh, it's been a long time since we've all been there. I'm making the > popcorn, can we count on Charles and Indi to bring the beer? Maybe some > mojitos and homemade salsa, mmm...that's the ticket! ;> > Charles the beer, Indi the Cherry Vodka (has replaced my recent fav Raspberry vodka). From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:33:24 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: good grief, i had no idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0CAEBEF6448sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Indigo" wrote in > news:g99u4u$v5a$1@news.spamcop.net: >> >> Never heard of Stroh, the rum. Stroh'(s) is a beer, if you want to >> call it that. >> >> > > What, in the same way that Budweiser is a 'beer'? lol Bud ain't bad, really, and neither is MGD. It's the light beers that are piss water (with the exception of Michelob Light and Ultra, or Amstel Light, IMHO). In particular, Coor's Light. I'd drink muddy water before I'd touch that crap. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:38:57 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9jouf$l1d$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I highly disagree that taking the high road is a "losers game". You keep > your mouth shut, while their dirt slingers get more and more desperate, > and they look even more pathetic as they go lower and lower. It would be > nice to see someone actually try to use it in politics, since it usually > works in real life. Did you see who McCain has hired to "help" him, the same people Bush hired to smear him in 2000? The hypocrisy and lack of spine is amazing.... http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-hires-go.html From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:45:29 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: More Oil company shenanigans helped by a governmental "mistake" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0CAD66A3DBAsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Frog Prince" wrote in > news:g99qh2$jp6$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> Given what I know bout bush, Cheney & co. I would be careful passing >> any kinda sauce. >> >> >> > > LOL, ain't that the truth. Just because they weren't in office then > doesn't > mean they didn't have some sort of hand in it. And you can bet they're > helping the oil companies now by discouraging any challenge to the > situation. I tend to doubt it this time. Bush and Cheney have lost all their power, the general population is now aware of the huge oil company profits and lack of exploration spending, they're fed up with paying $4 for gas, and the Dems now control Congress and will in short order control the presidency, I think. Expect big changes in energy policy within the year. If you like to play the stock market now's the time to get in early before the clean energy stocks (solar, wind, LNG) skyrocket in value. LNG is already in place in fleet use, in CA I think? A company with the stock symbol CLNE builds and owns LNG "gas stations" to service the bus and truck fleets, I expect them to flourish in particular. Oh, they're more widespread than I thought: "The company serves approximately 275 fleet customers operating 14,000 natural gas vehicles in public transit, refuse hauling, airports, taxis, seaports, and regional trucking markets. As of December 31, 2007, Clean Energy Fuels Corp. owned and operated 170 natural gas fueling stations in Arizona, California, Colorado, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Washington, Georgia, Wyoming, and Canada." I used to drive a dual fuel truck back in the 80's, it used either liquid propane or gasoline. Filling up with propane is a dangerous situation, you had to wear special thermal gloves (the liquid is kept under high pressure and gets extremely cold as it expands into the fuel tank, forming VERY cold ice on the fuel hose) and pray no spark souces were around when you disconnected the fill up hose. It will take some good engineering and IR&D to make LNG safe enough for the average stupid American driver to use on a regular basis, but the country is bursting with new NG discoveries and it's the most environmentally friendly fuel we've got. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:57:47 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9gqs9$gr9$1@news.spamcop.net... > never misses...... > http://www.examiner.com/x-243-Progressive-Politics-Examiner~y2008m8d31-The-Daily-Show-and-Sarah-Palin Now how did I miss that show? What a riot! "Love Pouch" ;-) Hmmm....I've been getting two free Baltimore Examiners per week lately, been throwing them out as a local rag without reading any of them. Might have to reconsider, very good website, but I want a good newspaper! The Baltimore Sun was recently gutted, fired like 110 people including many good reporters, the paper has shrunk by at least 1/3 and the content by even worse. Cost cutting that will eventually lead to their demise. The paper is total crap now, contains nothing, and half of their stories are one paragraph teasers that say "go to BaltimoreSun.com to read the full story". Well morons, I'm trying to relax reading the paper on the couch while watching TV, I'm sure as shit not going to get back on the computer (which I problably just put to sleep) to read your stupid story! If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an instant... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 12:58:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9jof3$ia5$1@news.spamcop.net... > Her unwed daughter being pregnant has what affect on her ability to be > vice president (or not)? *IF* her daughter is pregnant, that kind of flies in the face of the Republicans trying to corner the market on family values, doesn't it? I don't believe her daughter is pregnant, at least for the first time, and I actually suspect Palin faked her pregnancy to cover up her daughters. Either what we see on her now is leftover baby belly, or she's gone and gotten herself pregnant again. Her story, the 8 month absence from school for "mono", the photos (the ones that haven't already mysteriously disappeared from the Alaska state site), her actions at the convention, nothing adds up. If the baby was actually NOT hers, then faking a birth certificate is a crime, giving him a SSN on a faked birth certificate makes it a federal crime. The way she acted, traveling almost 24 hours to get back to Alaska when already in labor only after giving her 'keynote speech'? Sorry, but it's bullshit, and at best, it's putting a risky baby at much more risk. At worst, the whole thing is a very elaborate sham. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:03:58 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9jph5$nu4$1@news.spamcop.net... > > And having no birth control teenage sex is a good plan? Clearly not....wonder, did they never have "that talk"? > > He and his staff are guilty of incredibly poor judgement for nominating > her to try to capture the women's vote (those women so angry with the Dems > for bashing Hillary that they say they'll vote for McCain). For one, they > just lost the "foreign policy experience" fight, the political experience > fight in general, and they've royally PO'd a lot of smart and powerful > women who have seen right thru their ploy and are writing newspaper > columns and blogs about it, spreading their disdain over Palin to even > MORE women. It's already blowing up in his face, can you imagine what's > going to happen when Biden debates her? It will be an embarrassing > slaughter.... It's insulting to women everywhere they he thinks they are so incredibly dim they'll just vote with their ovaries and forget the fact that that woman couldn't be any LESS for women's rights if she tried. The people that dream this shit up should be fired. He could have chosen at least a dozen more powerful, well known, and accomplished women and he blindly chose Palin, and is now paying dearly for the lack of vetting. We couldn't have picked a better running mate if we'd done it for him... Biden will chew her up and spit her out, it will be delightful. Let's see her talk about all her foreign policy experience because Russia is 'right over there'. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:09:23 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Where's John, eh? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0CAE77F4B88sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... Do you not > have a DVR? Since you aren't working at the moment you could have done > what I did and record as much as possible and watch it during the day. I have a DVD R/W, but the stupid paper rarely listed what time the Americans were playing basketball the next day, I'd only find out about it when I got up in the morning AFTER the game was already over to see what time it started. I guess if I would have tried harder I could have found the game times, after all every Friday night I use the Comcast TV Guide to seach for car races for the weekend so I can program the DVD recorder in advance ;-) Brings me to ANOTHER complaint about the Sun paper -- nowadays they rarely publish/list live, let alone tape delayed, car races on the days they are televised, except for freaking NASCAR of course. Yesterday there were two live races, the American LeMans series and the IndyCar series, and they didn't list either one on the sports page TV listings for Sunday. And last Sunday I was in full glory -- F1 in the morning, Rolex Series at 1:00, IndyCars at 5:30 pm. Not a single race was listed! They used to list Speedvision covered races, but no more. Gee, how much money is it saving you by not using 20 characters of print space, you cheap bastards? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:16:24 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9jrbf$1gk$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:g9jof3$ia5$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Her unwed daughter being pregnant has what affect on her ability to be >> vice president (or not)? > > *IF* her daughter is pregnant, that kind of flies in the face of the > Republicans trying to corner the market on family values, doesn't it? They lost the corner on family values a long time ago when all those Congressman and Governors got busted with prostitutes and being "outed" in the most embarrassing manner. At worst, the whole thing is a very elaborate sham. > > I'll wait until more info is out before reading the baby stories. It's so new right now god knows what's the truth and what's being made up, the loonies are in control of the media right now. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:18:48 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Gustav Prep? More Guns And Ammo! In-Reply-To: References: <9v4kb49ncd70bf5ato4fadle477ccs9uaq@4ax.com> Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9dcvs$ohb$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Well, based on the past, he's probably right. And they can't depend > on law enforcement and know it. Oh, I dunno about that....apparently the full 1500 man NO police force is on hand and in place, plus a couple thousand National Guard. No anarchy this time is my guess. Seems they learned something from last time. From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 2 13:15:08 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9jplg$omc$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Heidi" wrote in message | news:g9j57a$a6q$1@news.spamcop.net... | > Gosh, it's been a long time since we've all been there. I'm making the | > popcorn, can we count on Charles and Indi to bring the beer? Maybe some | > mojitos and homemade salsa, mmm...that's the ticket! ;> | > | Charles the beer, Indi the Cherry Vodka (has replaced my recent fav | Raspberry vodka). Looks like FP the only one sober. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:21:32 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9jsia$5v8$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Indigo" wrote in message > | Charles the beer, Indi the Cherry Vodka (has replaced my recent fav > | Raspberry vodka). > > Looks like FP the only one sober I'll share......mojito? From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 13:28:58 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > D.F. Manno wrote: > > > To loftily say that I'm going to rise above > > partisanship while the other side does not is like bringing a wiffle- > > ball bat to a gunfight. It's unilateral political disarmament, and it's > > a loser's game. > > For one, use the right quote if you're going to use it: The Untouchables> "Just like a wop, bringing a knife to a gunfight" . > Of course, you are always at liberty to leave off the wop part if it doesn't > fit. It wasn't a misquote. It was deliberate. > I highly disagree that taking the high road is a "losers game". You keep > your mouth shut, while their dirt slingers get more and more desperate, and > they look even more pathetic as they go lower and lower. It would be nice to > see someone actually try to use it in politics, since it usually works in > real life. But it doesn't work in politics. It didn't work for Max Cleland. It didn't work for Harold Ford. It didn't work for John Kerry. I could list dozens of people who didn't respond forcefully to smears and mudslinging and lost their race. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:30:44 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:35:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Inexplicable...Sara WHO? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0CAC92F8F30sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > She's anti-abortion, not pro choice, so it's no surprise at all. Maybe > soon she'll realise why some people elect to abort a Downs baby. I'm really on the fence about aborting a Downs baby....while I severely doubt my abilities to deal with such a difficult child rearing experience, some people (like my younger brother and his wife) can handle it with compassion and relative ease, despite the terrible medical issues most Down's kids suffer from. I've forgotten how many operations she's had since birth, but she is the sweetest and most loving child you will ever meet, as are most Down's children. They never grow out of the "innocence of youth". She's seven now and still can't carry on a conversation (hasn't learned how to pronounce a lot of words yet), but she's a treat to be around. Hugs! Gimme Hugs! ;-) I was up there at my Dad's yesterday for Labor Day, and she spent most of her afternoon carrying around a tape measure finding the length of everything and everyone. I was pretty impressed with her knowledge of higher numbers, but not her accuracy (I *wish* I was 79" tall, I'd have gotten a basketball scholarship! ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 13:34:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-50E143.13285802092008@news.cesmail.net... > But it doesn't work in politics. It didn't work for Max Cleland. It > didn't work for Harold Ford. It didn't work for John Kerry. Dunno about the first two, but Kerry and/or his supporters were hardly "clean" themselves. The Bush "AWOL" charges came out way before the Swift Boaters, didn't they? From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 14:26:32 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 2 14:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Dean wrote: >> If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an instant... > > Worst money I ever spent... I bought a years subscription when I > first moved to Virginia. (It was a teaser deal $10/yr) Very shoddy local > reporting and parroted the GOP line for line at the national level. Having lived there while working in the PR biz, I was forced to read it. I'm careful about whom I'm supporting with my consumer media dollars and "eyeball time." While I am an avid reader of the Christian Science Monitor, I certainly don't want to support the Unification Church. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 14:27:54 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 2 14:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] I've got a great idea for a New Yorker cover... Message-ID: I'd love to see them do a caricature of Palin breast-feeding a baby in one arm, holding an Uzi in the other, with a bluetooth on her ear and a flat earth "globe" in the oval office maybe, and hey, I've got it, a Confederate flag tattoo! Wouldn't that just be so hilariously over-the-top? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 14:34:46 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 14:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:v8ltfuv02-FD1033.11154902092008@killface.local... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an >> instant... > > Worst money I ever spent... I bought a years subscription when I > first moved to Virginia. (It was a teaser deal $10/yr) Very shoddy local > reporting and parroted the GOP line for line at the national level. > -- Huh. Well, it *has* been probably 10 years since I last read it, but it used to be a decent alternative to the monsterous Post.... From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 15:52:12 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 2 15:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] 5 Men in a Limo Message-ID: The king of the movie trailer, Don LaFontaine, passed away over the weekend. He and four fellow voiceover artists appeared together in an introduction segment for the 26th Annual Hollywood Reporter Key Art Awards, where each voiceover artist parodied their own styles en route to the ceremony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQRtuxdfQHw From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 17:04:20 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" wrote: > > > But it doesn't work in politics. It didn't work for Max Cleland. It > > didn't work for Harold Ford. It didn't work for John Kerry. > > Dunno about the first two, but Kerry and/or his supporters were hardly > "clean" themselves. The Bush "AWOL" charges came out way before the Swift > Boaters, didn't they? The difference being that Bush _was_ AWOL, whereas the Swift Boaters lied. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 17:07:09 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "Frog Prince" wrote: > > > This from CNN > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html > > http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ > > Her unwed daughter being pregnant has what affect on her ability to be vice > president (or not)? If you favor abstinence-only education and yet can't get your own daughter to follow it, it tends to cast doubt on one's ability to lead. There's also the sheer hypocrisy of the double standard here: it's OK for a Christian Republican's daughter to get pregnant out of wedlock, but inner-city black girls who do are sluts. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 17:19:47 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an instant... You'd want to put money in the Moonies' pockets? -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From joegill at removethis Tue Sep 2 17:40:37 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-87CCB2.17042002092008@news.cesmail.net... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> "D.F. Manno" wrote: >> >> > But it doesn't work in politics. It didn't work for Max Cleland. It >> > didn't work for Harold Ford. It didn't work for John Kerry. >> >> Dunno about the first two, but Kerry and/or his supporters were hardly >> "clean" themselves. The Bush "AWOL" charges came out way before the Swift >> Boaters, didn't they? > > The difference being that Bush _was_ AWOL, whereas the Swift Boaters > lied. Evidence please on Swift Boater 'lies'... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 17:47:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:50:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-87CCB2.17042002092008@news.cesmail.net... >> Dunno about the first two, but Kerry and/or his supporters were hardly >> "clean" themselves. The Bush "AWOL" charges came out way before the Swift >> Boaters, didn't they? > > The difference being that Bush _was_ AWOL, whereas the Swift Boaters > lied. You didn't answer my question. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 17:51:15 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-88678F.17070902092008@news.cesmail.net... > > If you favor abstinence-only education and yet can't get your own > daughter to follow it, it tends to cast doubt on one's ability to lead. Show me ANY parent who can totally control the actions of their teenagers and I'll show you a unicorn. Her daughter being pregnant just shows how stupid abstinence based "birth control" is as a method. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 17:54:27 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 17:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Inexplicable...Sara WHO? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0D8E5E3BAB5sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... but if they turn out to be severely > mentally disadvantaged, you have to wonder what their lives will be > like, especially when their parents are no longer around to look after > them. Not normally a problem -- people with Down's have a pretty lousy life expectency due to their multiple health problems. Such as being diabetic, like my niece. She also had two heart surgeries as a baby. From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 18:00:19 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" wrote: > > >> Dunno about the first two, but Kerry and/or his supporters were hardly > >> "clean" themselves. The Bush "AWOL" charges came out way before the Swift > >> Boaters, didn't they? > > > > The difference being that Bush _was_ AWOL, whereas the Swift Boaters > > lied. > > You didn't answer my question. I did. You just don't like the answer. Anything goes in a campaign if it's true. The AWOL story is true. The Swift Boat story is not. Besides, the AWOL story was an issue long before Kerry ever announced his candidacy. The story broke in 1998, before _Bush_ was even a candidate. As for the other two, Cleland was a decorated Vietnam war vet who lost three of his limbs in combat, only to have his opponent smear him as soft on national defense and to picture him with bin Laden and Hussein in TV ads. Ford, a black man running for u.S. Senate in Tennessee, was the target of an ad implying that he had sex with white women at the Playboy Mansion. Playing on fears of miscegenation in the South is a very dirty tactic. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 18:02:36 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Where's John, eh? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0D8D0EFEE39sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > Can't you find the info you need using the cable box's Guide? I noticed > the > American Le Mans race listed while I scrolled thru the guide. Your Guide > should list all sports together and may even split them up into > categories. Yes, that's how I scout ahead to see what's on for the weekend. You choose "sports/racing" and it lists everything race related. > > i don't know what you're paying currently for your cable service but it > may > only cost you another $5 a month to add a DVR and it will totally change > your experience of watching TV I think Comcast charges more like $9.95 for a dual-channel DVR. I pretty much made the decision that I'm not going that way until I move up to HDTV, but I'm in no hurry and sure can't afford an HDTV (plus HD cable charges) anyway, at least not until I'm working again. Even then, I can't justify the expense when I have such a great TV/stereo system right now, it does everything I need, without having to watch 80% of my shows in letterbox format like I would if I got an LCD TV. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 18:04:10 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: More Oil company shenanigans helped by a governmental "mistake" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B0D8C6FCC38Esylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > There's a station near us that just converted to selling hydrogen. Not > that > I ever saw anyone filling up at that pump! There's another station that > sells biofuels but it's hideously expensive as I recall (over $5 a > gallon). Hydrogen?! Are you positive? I wasn't aware that any hydrogen vehicles were on sale yet, thought we were a few years away yet. Maybe a local bus or truck fleet has a test installation? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 18:05:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:05:06 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-B8619C.17194702092008@news.cesmail.net... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an >> instant... > > You'd want to put money in the Moonies' pockets? What'd they ever do to hurt me? From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 18:09:38 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Joe Gill" wrote: > D.F. Manno wrote: > > > The difference being that Bush _was_ AWOL, whereas the Swift Boaters > > lied. > > Evidence please on Swift Boater 'lies'... Get fucking real, moron. Every word they said was a lie, including their name. or Also see "Friendly Fire: The Birth of an Attack on Kerry" By Kate Zernike and Jim Rutenberg, New York Times, August 20, 2004 -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 18:44:54 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9jsd5$5kh$1@news.spamcop.net... > > They lost the corner on family values a long time ago when all those > Congressman and Governors got busted with prostitutes and being "outed" in > the most embarrassing manner. Oh, but don't you think it's hilarious? Rush Limbaugh preaching values while he's a drug addict, Republican senators cruising men in rest rooms (at least the Dems do it with women...), McCain a cheater....it's just too good. And now after dragging this poor pregnant 17 year old into national scrutiny the party is trying to make the press, liberal and otherwise, guilty for trying to get to the bottom of all the lies. Hands in the air for people who think Palin will pull out because the media was too mean to her and her family...... > > I'll wait until more info is out before reading the baby stories. It's so > new right now god knows what's the truth and what's being made up, the > loonies are in control of the media right now. There are a lot of people out there fabricating stuff from pieces, but there are many more basic questions that won't go away, based on photographs and other known facts, and they need to be answered and can be answered honestly. Why won't they provide a birth certificate for the baby? Or maybe they will when they've had a chance to doctor it up......... From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 2 18:45:29 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" wrote in message news:g9kbsd$bti$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "D.F. Manno" wrote in message | news:dfmanno-87CCB2.17042002092008@news.cesmail.net... | > In article , | > "Indigo" wrote: | > | >> "D.F. Manno" wrote: | >> | >> > But it doesn't work in politics. It didn't work for Max Cleland. It | >> > didn't work for Harold Ford. It didn't work for John Kerry. | >> | >> Dunno about the first two, but Kerry and/or his supporters were hardly | >> "clean" themselves. The Bush "AWOL" charges came out way before the Swift | >> Boaters, didn't they? | > | > The difference being that Bush _was_ AWOL, whereas the Swift Boaters | > lied. | | Evidence please on Swift Boater 'lies'... Recall T. Boon Pickens made a big deal of a $1M ($10M?) reward to anyone the proved Swift Boaters Lied? I don't have the cites or links but it was proven and Pickens got off on a bunch of fabricated technically. Pickens kept his money lost a lot of respect from some old time Texans. Some I know will get up and leave the room when Pickens walks in From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 2 18:50:29 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Gustav Prep? More Guns And Ammo! References: <9v4kb49ncd70bf5ato4fadle477ccs9uaq@4ax.com> Message-ID: "Indigo" | > | > Well, based on the past, he's probably right. And they can't depend | > on law enforcement and know it. | | Oh, I dunno about that....apparently the full 1500 man NO police force is on | hand and in place, plus a couple thousand National Guard. No anarchy this | time is my guess. Seems they learned something from last time. Not many people going without for days and days either. As to guns, take it from someone with folk on the ground. There are more than enough guns and folk who know how to use them. What there was not was an organized program to take the guns away from people. From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 2 18:59:04 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 2 19:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Palin Baby daddy - I don't want no kids. References: <1e124086-95d3-4e1b-a541-1a8bcbc776ed@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: http://www.tmz.com/2008/09/02/palin-daughter-baby-daddy-don-t-want-kids/ Claims to be a red neck but ... From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 19:10:56 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 19:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" wrote: > > > If you favor abstinence-only education and yet can't get your own > > daughter to follow it, it tends to cast doubt on one's ability to lead. > > Show me ANY parent who can totally control the actions of their teenagers > and I'll show you a unicorn. Her daughter being pregnant just shows how > stupid abstinence based "birth control" is as a method. Exactly, yet this is the method she wishes to push on everyone. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 2 19:16:41 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 2 19:20:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9jsms$743$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Frog Prince" wrote in message | news:g9jsia$5v8$1@news.spamcop.net... | > "Indigo" wrote in message | > | Charles the beer, Indi the Cherry Vodka (has replaced my recent fav | > | Raspberry vodka). | > | > Looks like FP the only one sober | | I'll share......mojito? | Thanks the comment was to the effect I don't drink anything much stronger than coffee. I might have a glass of wine ever 4 to 6 months if that. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 19:30:38 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 19:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Typical Republican B.S. Message-ID: This is beyond sad........Bartlett must be on vacation, or maybe he's cloned himself....... http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/campbell-brown.html From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 19:32:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 19:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: I've got a great idea for a New Yorker cover... References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:g9k0ja$r81$2@news.spamcop.net... > I'd love to see them do a caricature of Palin breast-feeding a baby in one > arm, holding an Uzi in the other, with a bluetooth on her ear and a flat > earth "globe" in the oval office maybe, and hey, I've got it, a > Confederate flag tattoo! Wouldn't that just be so hilariously > over-the-top? Yes, and can't you just hear the OUTRAGE already? "UNFAIR!! BIASED!! YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE!!" From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 21:03:51 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9kfl8$po4$1@news.spamcop.net... Hands in the air for people > who think Palin will pull out because the media was too mean to her and > her family...... >> Had this discussion during PT today -- she wondered if McCain could withdraw the nomination. I'm sure he can (or she can pull out if she wants), but at what cost to his credibility? Why won't they provide a birth certificate for the baby? Or > maybe they will when they've had a chance to doctor it up......... > Isn't Obama's BC still MIA? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 21:07:53 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-363AD7.19105602092008@news.cesmail.net... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> "D.F. Manno" wrote: >> >> > If you favor abstinence-only education and yet can't get your own >> > daughter to follow it, it tends to cast doubt on one's ability to lead. >> >> Show me ANY parent who can totally control the actions of their teenagers >> and I'll show you a unicorn. Her daughter being pregnant just shows how >> stupid abstinence based "birth control" is as a method. > > Exactly, yet this is the method she wishes to push on everyone. Yes, but that is more of a stupid choice of religious based morality teaching methods than of "leadership", dontcha think? Yes, leadership requires making smart decisions, but when religion gets involved....you get Bush and the (Im)Moral Majority! Quick, when was the last time you heard THAT term bandied about? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 21:11:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:v8ltfuv02-D5F8A3.15274302092008@killface.local... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> What'd they ever do to hurt me? > > Does Iran-Contra ring any bells? > -- They were involved in that? Cite please? Now if we were talking about a criminal to the core orginization like Scientology, I'd back you in a split second. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 21:26:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9kntg$kv2$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Had this discussion during PT today -- she wondered if McCain could > withdraw the nomination. I'm sure he can (or she can pull out if she > wants), but at what cost to his credibility? Oh NOOOO, it would be her, he would never withdraw the nomination because it would look like he realized his mistake - she'll fall on the sword, no problem. > > > Why won't they provide a birth certificate for the baby? Or >> maybe they will when they've had a chance to doctor it up......... >> > > Isn't Obama's BC still MIA? What would that prove? He's said his mother was 18 and I think unwed, and he knows who is father is - so what's to be discovered there, that he wasn't born on the mainland? From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 21:47:02 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" wrote: > > "Indigo" wrote: > >> "D.F. Manno" wrote: > >> > >> > If you favor abstinence-only education and yet can't get your own > >> > daughter to follow it, it tends to cast doubt on one's ability to lead. > >> > >> Show me ANY parent who can totally control the actions of their teenagers > >> and I'll show you a unicorn. Her daughter being pregnant just shows how > >> stupid abstinence based "birth control" is as a method. > > > > Exactly, yet this is the method she wishes to push on everyone. > > Yes, but that is more of a stupid choice of religious based morality > teaching methods than of "leadership", dontcha think? Yes, leadership > requires making smart decisions, but when religion gets involved....you get > Bush and the (Im)Moral Majority! Quick, when was the last time you heard > THAT term bandied about? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results, is one of the definitions of insanity. Insanity does not correlate well with ability to lead. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 2 21:54:40 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > Had this discussion during PT today -- she wondered if McCain could withdraw > the nomination. I'm sure he can (or she can pull out if she wants), but at > what cost to his credibility? McCain could change his mind any time before the VP vote, and the convention itself could nominate someone else. But the last time a VP selection pulled out was '72, Thomas Eagleton. After that, McGovern dropped from 41% to 27% in the polls. If McCain dropped her (or was forced to drop her) he'd be dead in the water. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 22:05:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 22:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9kp3g$pj9$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Why won't they provide a birth certificate for the baby? Or >>> maybe they will when they've had a chance to doctor it up......... >>> >> >> Isn't Obama's BC still MIA? > > What would that prove? He's said his mother was 18 and I think unwed, and > he knows who is father is - so what's to be discovered there, that he > wasn't born on the mainland? > Wouldn't prove nutting...just saying the refusal to present a BC for Palin's baby is a red herring. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 22:06:31 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 22:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-CEB2BF.21544002092008@news.cesmail.net... > But the last time a VP selection pulled out was '72, Thomas Eagleton. > After that, McGovern dropped from 41% to 27% in the polls. If McCain > dropped her (or was forced to drop her) he'd be dead in the water. I think he was dead in the water the second he released the news that she was his VP pick...... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 22:09:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 2 22:10:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:v8ltfuv02-C7E947.18221102092008@killface.local... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> They were involved in that? Cite please? > > > >> In the 1980s, Moon was the first donor to Oliver North's Nicaraguan >> Freedom >> Fund, which grew into the Iran-Contra scandal. > -- Okay....but what does that mean, being the first donor to Olie's NNFF? I'm done googling for the night, but I highly doubt that he actually contributed cash to purchase weapons in exchange for drugs (or however that deal worked). From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 2 22:37:41 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 2 22:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9krcv$vbp$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Wouldn't prove nutting...just saying the refusal to present a BC for > Palin's baby is a red herring. Obama posted his birth certifiate...... http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert Now I think Sarah Palin should do the same. I think her daughter's current 'pregnancy' is a red herring, to cover up the fact that the daughter gave birth to the baby in April, and she faked her own pregnancy to cover up for it. I'm amazed at how gullible the press is, they ask all kinds of questions about her bizarre, nonshowing pregnancy, and they throw them a bone in the form of her 17 year old daughter, and they stop asking the questions that need answering, just happy for ANY scandal, and maybe not the right one. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 01:01:07 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Wed Sep 3 01:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Palin Baby daddy - I don't want no kids. In-Reply-To: References: <1e124086-95d3-4e1b-a541-1a8bcbc776ed@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > http://www.tmz.com/2008/09/02/palin-daughter-baby-daddy-don-t-want-kids/ > > Claims to be a red neck but ... Gen Z friend sez that's a check box "default" choice when creating a myspace profile. From joegill at removethis Wed Sep 3 01:03:14 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Wed Sep 3 01:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina Message-ID: When Kitrina hit, You had a Republican gov. in Miss. .... No Problems, No complaining You had a Democrat gov. in LA.......... Big problems, much complaining... When Gustav hit, You had a Republican gov. in Miss. No problems, No complaining You had a Republican gov. in LA No problems, No complaining Hmmmmmm. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 01:28:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Wed Sep 3 01:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > When Kitrina hit, You had a Republican gov. in Miss. .... No Problems, > No complaining > You had a Democrat gov. in LA.......... Big problems, much complaining... When Katrina (learn how to spell it correctly) hit, you had a Republican president who was totally ignorant of the situation in New Orleans until his aides put together a DVD of news coverage highlights for the most out-of-touch president in our history (and they also insisted on a low-level fly-by on the return trip from San Diego where he strummed guitar and ate birthday cake with John McCain while New Orleans was literally drowning). And even then, despite the well-documented and colossal failures at FEMA (or was that politically motivated?) his only comment was "Great job, Brownie". It's also well-documented that before the hurricane made landfall Bush was briefed on the possibility that the levees could fail, yet he later claimed that nobody could have expected that to happen. No matter how much you Retardicans try to run from your abysmal record the facts are just not your friend, are they? From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 3 05:20:57 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 3 05:25:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" | When Katrina hit, | You had a Republican gov. in Miss. .... No Problems, No complaining | You had a Democrat gov. in LA.......... Big problems, much complaining... Big problems many still remaining and now under sitting Republican gov. As example repaired levees @ cat 3 rating almost didn't hold at a near miss cat 2 storm. | When Gustav hit, | You had a Republican gov. in Miss. No problems, No complaining | You had a Republican gov. in LA No problems, No complaining | Proves a sitting US President can learn a few hard lessons. Not smarter only a bit less brain dumb. Interesting that this president has his name painted on side of a sh|t processing plant, as I recall Grant only had his painted in the bottom of chamber pots. Both due to actions in wars. Recall the last time there was a pending election Florida was covered up the very next day with more assistance (gen sets and ice come to mind) than they could use. Recall when Katrina hit there were no elections of merit. This time there are pending election also close. No sh|t. From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 3 05:25:34 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 3 05:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: I've got a great idea for a New Yorker cover... References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9kif9$6e5$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Tim McGraw" wrote in message | news:g9k0ja$r81$2@news.spamcop.net... | > I'd love to see them do a caricature of Palin breast-feeding a baby in one | > arm, holding an Uzi in the other, with a bluetooth on her ear and a flat | > earth "globe" in the oval office maybe, and hey, I've got it, a | > Confederate flag tattoo! Wouldn't that just be so hilariously | > over-the-top? | | Yes, and can't you just hear the OUTRAGE already? "UNFAIR!! BIASED!! | YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE!!" | It should be illegal and a mortal (stoning) sin to mock the profit. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 12:03:53 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Wed Sep 3 12:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > Interesting that this president has his name painted on side of a sh|t > processing plant Not yet, but it's on the ballot. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/24/MNPQ11A3T7.DTL Re: neocon chest-thumping about Republican governors, James Lee Witt had FEMA winning awards for efficiency and efficacy. It was the model agency for what good government looked like. Then they appointed someone whose career pinnacle was Judges and Stewards Commissioner for the International Arabian Horse Association. It's easy to tell who knows about good government. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 12:54:42 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 3 12:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Giuliani doesn't disappoint either Message-ID: So here I was, drinking my coffee and this turd shows up on the Today show....virtually shouting down Meredith's legitimate questions, and spewing forth probably the worst stream of BS I've heard lately....well, ONE of the worst. http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002943752 VIEIRA: What about questions about whether you have enough experience to be vice president? GIULIANI: Well, that's a valid question. I'm talking about the ones that aren't valid. Of course, that's a valid question. Of course, she has enough experience. She's been a mayor and a governor. The day she became mayor, the first day she served in office she had more experience than Joe Biden and Barack Obama combined. She... (CROSSTALK) VIEIRA: And then Senator McCain, as well, then. He has no executive experience. (CROSSTALK) GIULIANI: Senator McCain ran a military unit. I remember -- I remember the debates when he explained his responsibilities in the military. He's led men in battle. He's led -- he's had the responsibility of the lives of men in his hands... VIEIRA: Do you -- do you think -- let me ask you. Let me ask you... GIULIANI: Joe Biden's never had that. Barack Obama has never had that. She's been a governor of a state. She's one of our most successful governors right now. She is the most popular governor in the United States. From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 3 15:16:12 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 3 15:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:g9mch9$1sh$1@news.spamcop.net... | Frog Prince wrote: | > Interesting that this president has his name painted on side of a sh|t | > processing plant | | Not yet, but it's on the ballot. | | http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/24/MNPQ11A3T7.DTL | | Re: neocon chest-thumping about Republican governors, James Lee Witt had | FEMA winning awards for efficiency and efficacy. It was the model agency | for what good government looked like. Then they appointed someone whose | career pinnacle was Judges and Stewards Commissioner for the | International Arabian Horse Association. | | It's easy to tell who knows about good government. You forgot to mention Browne failed at that job. I'm unclear if he was fired, quit or was asked to resign. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 18:20:09 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 3 18:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Hee hee.....hot mike! Message-ID: Republican hacks caught with a hot mic, trashing Palin - do they never learn? http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Noonan_Murphy_trash_Palin_on_hot_mic_Its_over.html From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 20:01:42 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 3 20:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Giuliani doesn't disappoint either In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9mfgi$cc2$1@news.spamcop.net... > > The day she became mayor, the first day she served in office she had more > experience than Joe Biden and Barack Obama combined. She... Mayor of a 1000 pop. town exceeds 30 years in the Senate in "experience"?!? Puh-leaze.... From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 20:05:03 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 3 20:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Hee hee.....hot mike! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9n2ir$39q$1@news.spamcop.net... > Republican hacks caught with a hot mic, trashing Palin - do they never > learn? > > http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Noonan_Murphy_trash_Palin_on_hot_mic_Its_over.html > ""The Sarah Palin choice is really going to work, or really not going to work," Noonan wrote. "It's not going to be a little successful or a little not; it's not going to be a wash. She is either going to be magic or one of history's accidents. She is either going to be brilliant and groundbreaking, or will soon be the target of unattributed quotes by bitter staffers shifting blame in all 'The Making of the President 2008' books."" Gee, nothing like taking a stand on your position, huh? "Either the sun will rise tomorrow or it won't." There, I just made a brilliant analysis of similar proportion. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 20:09:19 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 3 20:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Republicans Are Morons" wrote in message news:g9l7aq$17t$1@news.spamcop.net... > > And even then, despite the well-documented and colossal failures at FEMA > (or was that politically motivated?) his only comment was "Great job, > Brownie". What's well documented is that "Brownie" got a pure political payback job appointment and he had absolutely no business running FEMA. Wanna talk about (the lack of) experience here too? From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 3 20:15:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 3 20:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9kt9n$5eo$1@news.spamcop.net... > Obama posted his birth certifiate...... > http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert > Hadn't heard that. > Now I think Sarah Palin should do the same. I think her daughter's > current 'pregnancy' is a red herring, to cover up the fact that the > daughter gave birth to the baby in April, and she faked her own pregnancy > to cover up for it. But ain't the daughter 5-7 months preggers now? She couldn't have gotten pregnant again that fast. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 00:17:36 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Thu Sep 4 00:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > What's well documented is that "Brownie" got a pure political payback > job appointment and he had absolutely no business running FEMA. Wanna > talk about (the lack of) experience here too? Incompetence and inexperience seem to be rampant in the GOP these days, probably second only to their hypocrisy. Funny how fast they dropped that lame "not ready to lead" accusation against Obama/Biden once McCain picked Palin as his VP choice. From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 4 01:53:10 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 4 01:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina References: Message-ID: "Republicans Are Morons" wrote in message news:g9nngu$cec$1@news.spamcop.net... | Indigo wrote: | | > What's well documented is that "Brownie" got a pure political payback | > job appointment and he had absolutely no business running FEMA. Wanna | > talk about (the lack of) experience here too? | | Incompetence and inexperience seem to be rampant in the GOP these days, | probably second only to their hypocrisy. Funny how fast they dropped | that lame "not ready to lead" accusation against Obama/Biden once McCain | picked Palin as his VP choice. but their minions are not abandoning that claim. even though those neocons who are pushing the idea are hammered by the facts they are still claiming there is a 'difference' From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 02:16:44 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Thu Sep 4 02:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > but their minions are not abandoning that claim. even though those neocons > who are pushing the idea are hammered by the facts they are still claiming > there is a 'difference' As I mentioned in an earlier post, no matter how much they try to run from their abysmal record the facts are just not their friend, are they? From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 4 12:50:18 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 4 12:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina References: Message-ID: In article , "Joe Gill" wrote: > When Kitrina hit, > You had a Republican gov. in Miss. .... No Problems, No complaining > You had a Democrat gov. in LA.......... Big problems, much complaining... > > When Gustav hit, > You had a Republican gov. in Miss. No problems, No complaining > You had a Republican gov. in LA No problems, No complaining > > Hmmmmmm. When Katrina hit, you had Karl Rove politicizing the emergency response, and Bush demanding that Blanco federalize the Guard and turn over her authority to him. You also had the Republican lie machine pumping out one untruth after another. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 12:54:58 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Thu Sep 4 12:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > D.F. Manno wrote: >> Indigo wrote: >> >>> If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an >>> instant... >> >> You'd want to put money in the Moonies' pockets? > > What'd they ever do to hurt me? The point is, by supporting the Washington Times you would be supporting a tax cheat who has proclaimed himself to be the second coming of Christ. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 13:15:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 13:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Giuliani doesn't disappoint either References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9n8h8$onh$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Heidi" wrote in message > news:g9mfgi$cc2$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> The day she became mayor, the first day she served in office she had more >> experience than Joe Biden and Barack Obama combined. She... > > Mayor of a 1000 pop. town exceeds 30 years in the Senate in > "experience"?!? Puh-leaze.... Don't forget, she knows all about foreign policy because Alaska is next to Russia. Even John McCain is now touting that as 'experience'. (Political Animal) PALIN AND RUSSIA, PART V.... It started like a harmless joke, didn't it? Sarah Palin is from Alaska, Alaska is near Russia, and since Republican rhetoric has become breathtakingly ridiculous lately, some of us joked that Republicans might think the proximity between the state and the country counts as foreign policy experience. It was meant as satire. No one really expected Republicans to make the argument. And yet, he we are. On ABC's "World News Tonight," none other than John McCain became the latest Republican to make the connection. GIBSON: But as you know, the questions revolve really around foreign policy experience. Can you honestly say you feel confident having someone who hasn't traveled outside the United States until last year, dealing with an insurgent Russia, with an Iran with nuclear ambitions, with an unstable Pakistan, not to mention the war on terror?MCCAIN: Sure. And one of the key elements of America's national security requirements are energy. She understands the energy issues better than anybody I know in Washington, D.C., and she understands. Alaska is right next to Russia. She understands that. What does that even mean? She understands what, exactly? From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 4 14:17:28 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 4 14:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-2B8194.12501704092008@news.cesmail.net... | In article , | "Joe Gill" wrote: | | > When Kitrina hit, | > You had a Republican gov. in Miss. .... No Problems, No complaining | > You had a Democrat gov. in LA.......... Big problems, much complaining... | > | > When Gustav hit, | > You had a Republican gov. in Miss. No problems, No complaining | > You had a Republican gov. in LA No problems, No complaining | > | > Hmmmmmm. | | When Katrina hit, you had Karl Rove politicizing the emergency response, | and Bush demanding that Blanco federalize the Guard and turn over her | authority to him. | | You also had the Republican lie machine pumping out one untruth after | another. Including the military (with the most sophisticated spy stat system in the world) claiming there were no passable land routes into new Orleans. Kinda odd that the news media used google maps and COMMERCIAL sat system to find a back way in. My family used old routes mapped out by Lafitte the pirate centuries ago to get in and out in small pick ups. these were also the routes used by the bootleggers and later drug smugglers so the government can't claim "We didn't know" Hint the data is in the prosecution evidence presented in the trial of Barry Seal what 30 years ago? From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 4 14:35:49 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 4 14:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Any truth to the repugs References: <5d70c41cdj3q3u51omknhuhkdn3qe7rtoo@4ax.com> Message-ID: http://www.truthout.org:80/article/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-gop-convention From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 18:24:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 18:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] I sooo ' heart ' Jon Stewart Message-ID: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-hits-karl-rov_n_123852.html From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 4 18:52:19 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 4 18:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Check out Samatha Bee References: <5ln0c4dqff96d8mjm3iom6746ui1dir41r@4ax.com> Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=tbDHNsaL1g4 From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:14:00 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: My, my, what a juicy scandal.... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9n9ac$qt6$1@news.spamcop.net... > > But ain't the daughter 5-7 months preggers now? She couldn't have gotten > pregnant again that fast. So she says......she doesn't look 5 months pregnant..... From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:29:29 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Oh boy, TWO now... Message-ID: http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/04/1347737.aspx he GOP candidate for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, may be facing yet another ethics investigation back in her home state of Alaska. An ethics complaint obtained by NBC News was filed Wednesday by the police officers union in Alaska, requesting a probe into possible wrongdoing by the governor or her office. It was brought on behalf of state trooper Mike Wooten, an ex-brother-in-law of Palin who is at the center of the "Troopergate" scandal. The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply." From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:35:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh boy, TWO now... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9pr0p$1vn$1@news.spamcop.net... > > The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have > improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The > complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply." > Sorry to say it, but "big whoop". Someone in the Bush administration outed a CIA operative and nothing ever came of it....whateve she did pales in comparison to treason, ya know? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:38:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: One Big difference in LA between Gustav and Kitrina References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9n8vh$qcj$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Republicans Are Morons" wrote in message > news:g9l7aq$17t$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> And even then, despite the well-documented and colossal failures at FEMA >> (or was that politically motivated?) his only comment was "Great job, >> Brownie". > > What's well documented is that "Brownie" got a pure political payback job > appointment and he had absolutely no business running FEMA. Wanna talk > about (the lack of) experience here too? AHEM. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:39:59 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B0F2D6B593DATheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was Sylvesterthekat and s/he can't take it back now! > >> i've forgotten how to block a fudged ip on here now, you'll >> have to remind me Chaz > > I can't do much of anything. Sorry - drilling holes. Or trying to sleep > so I can catch my flight tomorrow... Only 19 hours of travel remaining > 'til I'm home! Why that's almost time enough to have a baby! From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:43:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Giuliani doesn't disappoint either In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:g9p53s$6c0$1@news.spamcop.net... > What does that even mean? She understands what, exactly? > It means he successfully dodged the question and apparently Gibson didn't call him on it. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 19:44:49 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 4 19:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:g9p3t2$uo5$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> D.F. Manno wrote: >>> Indigo wrote: >>> >>>> If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an >>>> instant... >>> >>> You'd want to put money in the Moonies' pockets? >> >> What'd they ever do to hurt me? > > The point is, by supporting the Washington Times you would be supporting a > tax cheat who has proclaimed himself to be the second coming of Christ. And supporting anything connected to Rupert Murdoch is different how? From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 4 20:42:02 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 4 20:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Jon Stewart... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: > > Indigo wrote: > >> D.F. Manno wrote: > >>> Indigo wrote: > >>> > >>>> If the Washington Times covered Ravens football I'd switch in an > >>>> instant... > >>> > >>> You'd want to put money in the Moonies' pockets? > >> > >> What'd they ever do to hurt me? > > > > The point is, by supporting the Washington Times you would be supporting a > > tax cheat who has proclaimed himself to be the second coming of Christ. > > And supporting anything connected to Rupert Murdoch is different how? I don't read the N.Y. Post or the Wall St. Journal, either. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 4 20:55:19 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 4 21:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh boy, TWO now... References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "Heidi" wrote: > > > The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have > > improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The > > complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply." > > Sorry to say it, but "big whoop". Someone in the Bush administration outed a > CIA operative and nothing ever came of it....whateve she did pales in > comparison to treason, ya know? That's a damned low bar to set - that she managed not to commit treason. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 4 22:23:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 4 22:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh boy, TWO now... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:g9prbo$4pv$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Heidi" wrote in message > news:g9pr0p$1vn$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have >> improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The >> complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply." >> > > Sorry to say it, but "big whoop". Someone in the Bush administration outed > a CIA operative and nothing ever came of it....whateve she did pales in > comparison to treason, ya know? Well there may be more to come out yet - and remember the Enquirer wasn't wrong about Edwards.... http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/03/politics/fromtheroad/entry4413030.shtml From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 5 08:14:12 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 5 08:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh boy, TWO now... References: Message-ID: "Heidi" < | > Sorry to say it, but "big whoop". Someone in the Bush administration outed | > a CIA operative and nothing ever came of it....whateve she did pales in | > comparison to treason, ya know? | | Well there may be more to come out yet - and remember the Enquirer wasn't | wrong about Edwards.... | http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/03/politics/fromtheroad/entry4413030.shtml | Did I not say 'wait and see'? (for the record I had no advanced notice or knowledge of this one) but again it ain't all out yet. From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 5 08:21:32 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 5 08:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Poor John McCheney References: Message-ID: >From another news group John McCain has given an acceptance speech to the Republican Convention while dancing around Pogo's theme "We have met the enemy, and he is us." But Senator McCain, who has spent 30 years in Congress, was a little light on details of how he is going to 'unscrew' us from the 'screwing' he helped give us in the first place. In fact, 1/3 of all Republican Congressional Representatives and Senators are too embarrassed to even show up at the GOP's 2008 Convention. Don Runsfeld and Dick Cheney had more 'experience' than anyone in the DOD in 100 years and look what that got us. I'm looking for good judgment, not 'experience.' Republicans have shown they are incapable of good judgment. From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 5 09:29:29 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 5 09:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Master card ad I'd like to see References: Message-ID: >From another ng (prices supplied by Vanity Fare magazine re Tuesday nite appearances) Laura Bush Oscar de la Renta suit: $2,500 Stuart Weitzman heels: $325 Pearl stud earrings: $600–$1,500 Total: Between $3,425 and $4,325 Cindy McCain Oscar de la Renta dress: $3,000 Chanel J12 White Ceramic Watch: $4,500 Three-carat diamond earrings: $280,000 Four-strand pearl necklace: $11,000–$25,000 Shoes, designer unknown: $600 Total: Between $299,100 and $313,100 the republicans calling Obama ELITIST? Priceless. From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 5 09:30:06 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 5 09:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Need a soldier? Hire an actor like the RNC did References: Message-ID: RNC uses actors in film of military funeral http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/cbsnews_investigates/main4415886.shtml From dfmanno at mail.com Fri Sep 5 12:31:47 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Fri Sep 5 12:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Need a soldier? Hire an actor like the RNC did References: Message-ID: In article , "Frog Prince" wrote: > RNC uses actors in film of military funeral > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/cbsnews_investigates/main4415886.sh > tml To be fair, it's against military regulations for soldiers to participate in political campaigns. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com The modern conservative is engaged in one of manšs oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith) From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 5 14:05:36 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 5 14:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Need a soldier? Hire an actor like the RNC did References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:v8ltfuv02-E5878C.10060805092008@killface.local... | In article , | "D.F. Manno" wrote: | | > To be fair, it's against military regulations for soldiers to | > participate in political campaigns. | | It would also be in poor taste to use footage from an /actual/ | funeral for a political ad. And using stand in's is good taste? Wonder why it in poor taste to allow photos of the caskets arriving to be published in the news but not a staged depiction of a funeral? Recall that was one of the things that turned the public against the NAM war. From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 5 17:45:01 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 5 17:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Need a soldier? Hire an actor like the RNC did References: Message-ID: "David Dean" | > And using stand in's is good taste? | | Not particularly, but I think pictures of a real funeral would have | been incredibly offensive. | | > Wonder why it in poor taste to allow photos of the caskets arriving to be | > published in the news but not a staged depiction of a funeral? | | That's a reasonable question. I also never understood why so many | people got offended by the hillside where people opposed to the war were | placing crosses to represent the number of dead soldiers. Plane and simple they are not ready to face the reality of war, what it really does and do not want that message carried home. I can remember the parents of a friend who were gung ho for the NAM war until their son came home in a box. Like the say denial is not a river in Egypt. Some thing I really didn't understand at the time as she lost a brother in WWII. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 5 18:06:31 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Sep 5 18:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh boy, TWO now... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9r7qp$vjr$1@news.spamcop.net... > Did I not say 'wait and see'? (for the record I had no advanced notice or > knowledge of this one) but again it ain't all out yet. > It gets better and better...news today that the investigation into Troopergate has been fast tracked and will NOT be held until October 31 like McCain pressured for, it'll come out at least three weeks earlier. And it looks bad for her. Then there are all the whispers of an extramarital affair with her husband's ex business partner - Enquirer's on it and now there has been an urgent appeal by the man involved to get his divorce records sealed. A judge denied the motion. Whoooo weee....storm a'brewin.... From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 5 21:27:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 5 21:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B108CA7F1499TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Heidi" ! > >> Why that's almost time enough to have a baby! > > You know... Yeah. Well... I've felt like kicking Indi for feeding them. > But... But... But... But I used to get involved, too. Maybe I'm past > that now. I doubt it :) But this time, right now, I'm doing a reasonable > job, aren't I? Dom, however, is rising to the bait of one and Indi and FP > to another... I suppose it is interesting on some level. But the key, as > in 21, is to remain removed from the situation - to keep it all whatever. > Um. That's pure and utter bs, but whatever. La la la. Never mind. You got IP proof that they are loonies returning from the past? I *did* find it somewhat strange to have two new posters appear out of nowhere, but I suspected that they were one and the same. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 6 09:50:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 6 09:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Master card ad I'd like to see References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9rcju$p2q$1@news.spamcop.net... > the republicans calling Obama ELITIST? Priceless. They not only call him elitist, they [unapologetically] call him 'uppity'.....and you know the 'n' word that comes after THAT..... http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/westmoreland-calls-obama-uppity-2008-09-04.html "Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they're a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they're uppity," Westmoreland said. Asked to clarify that he used the word “uppity,” Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.” Other Democrats have charged that the Republican campaign to paint the Illinois senator as an “elitist” is racially charged, and accused them of using code words for “uppity” without using the word itself. From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 6 10:56:38 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 6 11:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] She put it on EBay...but... References: Message-ID: >From another group: She gave the American public the impression that the jet had been sold on Ebay. In other words, she lied. Later, McCain bragged about the Ebay sale and how they sold it at a profit, while Palin stood and listened and did nothing to correct him. "She took the luxury jet that was acquired by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- made a profit," McCain said in Wisconsin upon being introduced by Palin. So by her silence she told another lie. The Westwind II luxury jet was purchased for $2.7 million by Gov. Murkowski and sold for $2.1 milllion-- to Republican friend of Gov. Palin, Larry Reynolds, who uses it to ferry wealthy hunters around Alaska and Russia, From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 6 11:30:22 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 6 11:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] What a way to go. References: Message-ID: Upon hearing that her elderly grandfather had just passed away, Katie went straight to her grandparent's house to visit her 95 year old grandmother and comfort her. When she asked how her grandfather had died, her grandmother replied. "He had a heart attack while we were making love on Sunday morning." Horrified, Katie told her grandmother that two people nearly 100 years old having sex would be asking for trouble. "Oh, no, my dear," replied granny. "Many years ago, realizing our advanced age, we figured out the best time to do it was when the church bells would start to ring. It was just the right rhythm. Nice and slow and even. Nothing too strenuous, simply in on the Ding and out on the Dong." > > > > > > She paused to wipe away a tear, and continued, "and if the damn ice cream truck hadn't come along, he'd still be alive today. From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 6 13:44:55 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 6 14:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] AKA Tommy Chong References: <6ifrlvFqkcrrU2@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: >From another news group. I've left the author's links at the bottom as he has some very interesting perspectives on the mountain top mining and what it's doing to a part of the country. I doubt anyone needs reminding the federal government --and especially the Department of inJustice has been taken over by moronic pinheaded lying idiots, but in the event moronic pinheaded lying idiocy in action interests you --in the same way, I suppose, a train wreck might be "interesting-- you need to track down and rent a movie called "AKA Tommy Chong." Netflix has it, and the film's a mind-blowing depiction of how the feds spent twelve million dollars and, for all their trouble, managed to put Chong and a few others in various federal slammers for short stays. (Chong's nine months was the longest sentence meted out to anyone targeted in "Operation It's a documentary about Chong's arrest and incarceration for lending his name to a family-owned glass bong making bidness, and it'll have you laughing yer ass off one minute and wanting to throw rocks at the nearest Repugnicon the next. It's a helluva story, and if anyone needs convincing the Shrubbists have no more interest in fighting crime --or terrorism for that matter-- than Shrub himself had in being a good soldier, the film oughta do it. For die-hard neocons --reptiles always die hard-- there are even clips of their boy Ashcroft at his goofy finest. Chong says, toward the end of the movie, "We gotta vote these fuckers out of office." I dunno. "AKA Tommy Chong" has me thinking it's already too late. -- On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. -- H. L. Mencken -- http://bobsloansampler.com/ Now available: "Nobody Knows, Nobody Sees" MISSING MOUNTAINS: http://www.windpub.com/books/missing.htm From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 6 14:13:27 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 6 14:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Hey George the instructions are on the heal of your boot. References: <26f2cc35-ca4f-4592-bea9-4c1713f6e7bc@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Somewhat disappointing that with the lead time and all the chest puffing about preparations, FEMA isn't delivering water, ice, MREs to Louisiana. Distribution centers ran out of supplies early 2nd day. Stations awaiting more deliveries. Jindahl pissed. Maybe they should double up right now in preparation for Ike? Gee so now we have a Rep gov in Louisiana and GWB and co are still screwing up. Hey George the instructions are on the heal of your boot. From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 6 19:39:08 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 6 19:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] We have a NEW Barbie!!! References: <1a3fa938-687a-493e-b33b-4b4b2d2fdc8c@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <6igfl5FqmnqsU2@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: People are calling Palin "Caribou Barbie." Works for me. . . From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 6 19:43:05 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 6 19:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Necon rights going to love this one References: <1ea081d1-7ef0-4278-8969-4f15443b6c3a@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 6 20:06:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 6 20:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Palin hidden from the press - for TWO WEEKS Message-ID: Why is the media not screaming at the top of their lungs about this? http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/ From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 08:35:59 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 7 08:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: We have a NEW Barbie!!! References: <1a3fa938-687a-493e-b33b-4b4b2d2fdc8c@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <6igfl5FqmnqsU2@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:g9v4lk$m5o$1@news.spamcop.net... > People are calling Palin "Caribou Barbie." > > Works for me. . . I think Toxic Barbie might be more appropriate From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 08:38:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 7 08:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Palin on the environment Message-ID: Being ignorant and bitchy is not a good combination.... The Palin administration has allowed Chevron to triple the amount of toxic waste it pours into the waters of Cook Inlet. This, even though the number of beluga whales in the bay has collapsed from 1,300 to 350 - the point of extinction - because of pollution and increased ship traffic. On the Republican convention floor she said: "We Americans need to produce more of our own oil and gas and take it from a gal who knows the North Slope of Alaska: We've got lots of both." The fact that drilling won't solve every problem "is no excuse to do nothing at all", she said, putting the country on notice that "starting in January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we're going to lay more pipelines ... build more nuclear plants ... create jobs with clean coal ... and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal and other alternative sources". Mrs Palin also took a swipe at Barack Obama's environmental stance saying: "What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet?" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/palin-the-real-scandal-920803.html From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 7 10:21:51 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 7 10:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: We have a NEW Barbie!!! References: <1a3fa938-687a-493e-b33b-4b4b2d2fdc8c@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <6igfl5FqmnqsU2@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:ga0hrf$hd$2@news.spamcop.net... | | "Frog Prince" wrote in message | news:g9v4lk$m5o$1@news.spamcop.net... | > People are calling Palin "Caribou Barbie." | > | > Works for me. . . | | I think Toxic Barbie might be more appropriate Look like it's on the market: http://www.collegeotr.com/college_otr/sarah_palin_as_caribou_barbie_realized_11282 From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 12:35:32 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sun Sep 7 12:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Musical Taste Defines Personality Message-ID: Fri Sep 5, 5:38 AM ET (Reuters/Yahoo) ? Fans of classical music and jazz are creative, pop lovers are hardworking and, despite the stereotypes, heavy metal listeners are gentle, creative types who are at ease with themselves. So says Professor Adrian North of Scotland's Heriot-Watt University who has been studying the links between people's personalities and their choice of music. "People often define their sense of identity through their musical taste, wearing particular clothes, going to certain pubs, and using certain types of slang," North said. "It's not surprising that personality should also be related to musical preference." In what North said was the largest study ever conducted into individuals' musical preference and character, researchers asked 36,518 people from around the world to rate how much they liked 104 different musical styles before taking a personality test. "Researchers have been showing for decades that fans of rock and rap are rebellious, and that fans of opera are wealthy and well-educated," North said. "But this is the first time that research has shown that personality links to liking for a wide range of musical styles." The study concluded that jazz and classical music fans are creative with good self-esteem, although the former are much more outgoing whereas the latter are shy. Country and western fans were found to be hardworking and shy; rap fans are outgoing and indie lovers lack self-esteem and are not very gentle. Those who like soul music can take heart as the research concluded they are creative, outgoing, gentle, at ease with themselves and have a high self-esteem. And if you've ever wondered why people driving expensive sports cars often have music blaring from their vehicle, North could have an explanation. Those who choose to listen to exciting, punchy music are more likely to be in a higher earning bracket, he says, while those who go for relaxing sounds tend to be lower down the pay scale. North is still looking for volunteers to take part in the research. Details on http://www.peopleintomusic.com From joegill at removethis Sun Sep 7 13:47:55 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sun Sep 7 13:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Obama's Radical Roots And Rules Message-ID: Obama's Radical Roots And Rules By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:20 PM PT Election '08: Most Americans revile socialism, yet Barack Obama's poll numbers remain competitive. One explanation: He's a longtime disciple of a man whose mission was to teach radicals to disguise their ideology. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBD Series: The Audacity Of Socialism The presumptive Democratic presidential nominee's choice of the word "change" as his campaign's central slogan is not the product of focus-group studies, or the brainstorming sessions of his political consultants. One of Obama's main inspirations was a man dedicated to revolutionary change that he was convinced "must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, nonchallenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future." Saul Alinsky, circa 1946: Like Obama, he wanted "change." Sen. Obama was trained by Chicago's Industrial Areas Foundation, founded in 1940 by the radical organizer Saul Alinsky. In the 1980s, Obama spent years as director of the Developing Communities Project, which operated using Alinsky's strategies, and was involved with two other Alinsky-oriented entities, Acorn and Project Vote. On the Obama campaign Web site can be found a photo of him teaching in a University of Chicago classroom with "Power Analysis" and "Relationships Built on Self Interest" written on the blackboard - key terms utilized in the Alinsky method. The far-left Alinsky had no time for liberalism or liberals, declaring that "a liberal is (someone) who puts his foot down firmly on thin air." He wanted nothing less than transformational radicalism. "America was begun by its radicals," he wrote. "America was built by its radicals. The hope and future of America lies with its radicals." And so, "This is the job for today's radical - to fan the embers of hopelessness into a flame to fight. To say, '. . . let us change it together!' " Alinsky students ranged "from militant Indians to Chicanos to Puerto Ricans to blacks from all parts of the black power spectrum, from Panthers to radical philosophers, from a variety of campus activists, S.D.S. and others, to a priest who was joining a revolutionary party in South America." Capitalism always was considered the enemy. "America's corporations are a spiritual slum," he wrote, "and their arrogance is the major threat to our future as a free society." Is it surprising that an Alinsky disciple such as Obama can promise so blithely to increase taxes on CEOs? Obama calls his years as an Alinskyesque community organizer in Chicago "the best education I ever had, and where I learned the true meaning of my Christian faith." But as radicalism expert Richard Lawrence Poe has noted, "Camouflage is key to Alinsky-style organizing. In organizing coalitions of black churches in Chicago, Obama caught flak for not attending church himself. He became an instant churchgoer." Indeed, Alinsky believed in sacrificing ethics and morals for the great cause. "Ethical standards must be elastic to stretch with the times," Alinsky wrote in his last book, "Rules for Radicals," adding that "all values are relative in a world of political relativity." Published a year before Alinsky's death in 1972, "Rules for Radicals" includes a dedication in which he gives "an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical . . . who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer." Alinsky's writings even explain what often seems like Obama's oversized ego. In New Hampshire in January, for example, the senator told an audience that "a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany . . . and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama." It was a bizarre spectacle, but consider that Alinsky believed that "anyone who is working against the haves is always facing odds, and in many cases heavy odds. If he or she does not have that complete self-confidence (or call it ego) that he can win, then the battle is lost before it is even begun." According to Alinsky, "Ego must be so all-pervading that the personality of the organizer is contagious, that it converts the people from despair to defiance, creating a mass ego." Alinsky also readily admitted that he didn't trust the people themselves. "It is the schizophrenia of a free society that we outwardly espouse faith in the people but inwardly have strong doubts whether the people can be trusted," he wrote. "Seeking some meaning in life," the middle class, according to Alinsky, "turn to an extreme chauvinism and become defenders of the 'American' faith." This is evocative of Obama's remark during the primaries that small-town Americans are "bitter" and "cling to guns or religion." Obama is also following Alinsky's instructions to the hard left for attaining power in America. In the last chapter of "Rules for Radicals," titled "The Way Ahead," is found this declaration: "Activists and radicals, on and off our college campuses - people who are committed to change - must make a complete turnabout." Alinsky noted that "our rebels have contemptuously rejected the values and way of life of the middle class. They have stigmatized it as materialistic, decadent, bourgeois, degenerate, imperialistic, war-mongering, brutalized and corrupt." According to Alinsky, "They are right," but he cautioned his comrades that "the power and the people are in the big middle-class majority." Therefore, an effective radical activist "discards the rhetoric that always says 'pig' " in reference to police officers, plus other forms of disguise, "to radicalize parts of the middle class." Obama's rhetorical window-dressing is easily recognizable as Alinskyesque camouflage. New annual spending of more than $340 billion, as estimated by the National Taxpayers Union, is merely a wish to "recast" the safety net woven by FDR and LBJ, as Obama describes it in his writings. The free market is disparaged as a "winner-take-all" economy. Big tax increases masquerade as "restoring fairness to the economy." Barack Obama's "Change We Can Believe In" is simply socialism - imposed by stratagem because Americans have never believed in Marxist economics. Saul Alinsky understood this, and his ghost is alive and well - and threatening to haunt the White House. From joegill at removethis Sun Sep 7 13:49:12 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sun Sep 7 13:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] The Bird Feeder Message-ID: I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it was, as I filled it lovingly with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food. But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table... everywhere! Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And other birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food. After awhile, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be... quiet, serene, and no one demanding their rights to a free meal. Now let's see. Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, and free education, and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen. Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly, our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English. Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to 'press one' to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than 'Old Glory' are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties. Just my opinion, but maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder. If you agree, pass this on; if not, continue cleaning up the poop! From joegill at removethis Sun Sep 7 14:10:10 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sun Sep 7 14:15:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Obama's Favorite Islamist Message-ID: http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.998/pub_detail.asp From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 16:52:11 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sun Sep 7 16:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Musical Taste Defines Personality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:ga0vsl$2fn$1@news.spamcop.net... Where's the "alternative/New Wave" group? Or the Blues? Soul != Blues From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 16:53:52 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sun Sep 7 16:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B125DA7B1ED1TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Indigo" ! > >> You got IP proof that they are loonies returning from the past? > > No. Do I need that? > To prove to me that they're sock puppets, yes. > >> I *did* find it somewhat strange to have two new posters appear out of >> nowhere, but I suspected that they were one and the same. > > Two posters who appear to be trying to rile things up. _This_ time you're > the one rising to the bait. I know, I know, I've been there many a time > and probably will be there again. Ah, but this time it's you! They seem well behaved enough so far, not stirring up shit anymore than you or Heidi! From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 16:58:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sun Sep 7 17:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Palin on the environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:ga0i02$161$1@news.spamcop.net... > The Palin administration has allowed Chevron to triple the amount of toxic > waste it pours into the waters of Cook Inlet. This, even though the number > of beluga whales in the bay has collapsed from 1,300 to 350 - the point of > extinction - because of pollution and increased ship traffic. Well, that sucks! Where in the hell is the EPA and PETA and the eco-terrorist environmentalists when you need them? > > The fact that drilling won't solve every problem "is no excuse to do > nothing at all", she said, putting the country on notice that "starting in > January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we're going to lay more > pipelines ... build more nuclear plants ... create jobs with clean coal > ... and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal and other alternative > sources". I don't see anything wrong with that statement. I think we DO need more nukes (France gets 80% of their electricity from nukes), and clean coal technology exists for generating power. The trick (and biggest problem) is to avoid allowing that "pollution credit trading" scheming from happening. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 17:56:04 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sun Sep 7 18:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The Bird Feeder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box Then don't buy corn flakes. > Just my opinion, but maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder. Sounds like a socialist takeover to me. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 17:58:57 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sun Sep 7 18:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Musical Taste Defines Personality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Where's the "alternative/New Wave" group? Or the Blues? Soul != Blues alternative could be indie. Not Indi though :) Funny you should ask about the blues, this was sent to me by a pal who hosts a syndicated blues show: http://www.bluesquest.org From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 19:34:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 7 19:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:ga1f1f$5u9$1@news.spamcop.net... > > To prove to me that they're sock puppets, yes. Your powers of observation could use a little sharpening...some things are instantly recognizable..... > > They seem well behaved enough so far, not stirring up shit anymore than > you or Heidi! Oi, am not! It's just that season again, and hypocrisy drives me nuts...... From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 7 19:46:13 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 7 19:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Palin on the environment References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:ga1f9e$6i7$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Heidi" wrote in message > news:ga0i02$161$1@news.spamcop.net... >> The Palin administration has allowed Chevron to triple the amount of >> toxic waste it pours into the waters of Cook Inlet. This, even though the >> number of beluga whales in the bay has collapsed from 1,300 to 350 - the >> point of extinction - because of pollution and increased ship traffic. > > Well, that sucks! Where in the hell is the EPA and PETA and the > eco-terrorist environmentalists when you need them? Right.....at the same time she's suing the federal govt. for making polar bears endangered, she's also telling them to do not declare belugas endangered because it would 'damage the economy' of Cook Inlet. So she's got a pretty strong anti -enviroment background for someone who's been there less than 2 years. > I don't see anything wrong with that statement. I think we DO need more > nukes (France gets 80% of their electricity from nukes), and clean coal > technology exists for generating power. The trick (and biggest problem) is > to avoid allowing that "pollution credit trading" scheming from happening. That's not the part I objected to, although it remains to be seen whether she's a complete hypocrite on that as well as on oil, doesn't support Obama's windfall profits tax on oil, but did virtually the same thing in Alaska, doubling the tax they pay and giving it to the citizens, which is how Obama wants to give heating aid to people who need it. I objected to the snarky, bitchy Jesus reference at the end of it. From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 8 10:46:39 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 8 10:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense References: Message-ID: "Charles" < | So now they've socialized fannie mae and freddie mac? WTF? Makes perfect sense. Protects the bankers, realtors, mortgage insurance and investors. I don't buy the claim of protecting the home owner. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 11:33:00 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Mon Sep 8 11:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Joe Gill Message-ID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_posting From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 11:33:08 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Mon Sep 8 11:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Pictorial review of R's convention Message-ID: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/top10/351 From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 8 14:23:11 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 8 14:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] The don't call it the silly seacond for nothing -- Pictorial review of R's convention References: Message-ID: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/top10/351 From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 17:45:30 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Mon Sep 8 17:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B138E5D69991sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Indigo" wrote in > news:ga1f1f$5u9$1@news.spamcop.net: > >>>> You got IP proof that they are loonies returning from the past? >>> >>> No. Do I need that? >>> >> >> To prove to me that they're sock puppets, yes. > > Thing is that this particular moron always uses faked IPs in some way or > another so the IP means very little. You could investigate those IPs if > you > could be bothered to see if they're known open doors. But the overriding > evidence is that it was picking on Heidi exclusively which can only mean > one person, and we all know who that is. Ummm,, No, we, at least I don't. >Obviously had f*ck all to do over > the holiday weekend. > > > From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 18:58:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 8 19:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B138E5D69991sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > Thing is that this particular moron always uses faked IPs in some way or > another so the IP means very little. You could investigate those IPs if > you > could be bothered to see if they're known open doors. But the overriding > evidence is that it was picking on Heidi exclusively which can only mean > one person, and we all know who that is. Obviously had f*ck all to do over > the holiday weekend. Some people's "asshole-y-ness" is unmistakeable....took very little in the way of deductive power.... ;D From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 19:19:02 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 8 19:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Yeah, so let's answer those questions Message-ID: McCain says "nice to meet you". And that's all..... http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/how-americablog-reader-asked-john-and.html From joegill at removethis Mon Sep 8 20:25:38 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Mon Sep 8 20:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:ga3gjd$78b$2@news.spamcop.net... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_posting Great piece, including the line at the end of the first paragraph which states "The term "hit-and-run posting" is sometimes used, unjustifiably, against people who don't have as much time to spend on a forum as others and therefore have trouble keeping up with the posting pace." Many people do NOT have the time to instantly reply to postings. Many people have jobs and other interests that keep them away from posting for 12, 24,48, 96 hours or more..... From joegill at removethis Mon Sep 8 20:27:01 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Mon Sep 8 20:30:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1387EBE50D1sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > Charles wrote in > news:Xns9B139121F50B8TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > >> Is it Joe or is it... Jerry??? Stay tuned! >> > > And do we care? Makes no difference if you don't bother reading any of it. It's a shame.. I read all of the posts, even the ones I strongly disagree with.... It seems then, you must be of a 'certain mindset' to have your posts recognized. From joegill at removethis Mon Sep 8 20:28:49 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Mon Sep 8 20:30:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1388933E7F6sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > Tim McGraw wrote in news:ga3gjd$78b$2 > @news.spamcop.net: > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_posting > > He doesn't want to discuss issues, he just wants to pollute with nonsense. > Sounds like a raving nazi to me. Best if ignored. See earlier response in this thread.... Also, it's interesting that a 'divergent opinion' is characterized as 'nonsense' and a poster who does not conform to a mindset, is branded as a 'raving nazi'.... From joegill at removethis Mon Sep 8 20:31:43 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Mon Sep 8 20:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1370F0BF353TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It wasn't me! It was "Frog Prince" ! >> "Charles" < >> >>| So now they've socialized fannie mae and freddie mac? WTF? >> >> Makes perfect sense. Protects the bankers, realtors, mortgage >> insurance and investors. > > I understand who it protects. I also understand that it's socialism. > Coming from people who claim to be capitalists (and who would bristle at > being called socialists) it's weird. But, whatever. It's all about > saving > their own backsides. Losers. In the theoretical sense, there should have been NO intervention at all. They should have just let Freddie and Fannie go belly up. The problems are: 1) It would take down a lot more than just Fredie and Fannie 2) It would drive interest rates throught the ceiling 3) It would have destroyed the housing market and ruined a lot of lives From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 20:33:02 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 8 20:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13CF3237A77TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > And, no, I don't just want a guess. Before you look at my number, I would > like anyone who is going to respond to this to actually go and do the > math. > Add it up. Fire up your accounting program, get out your receipts, > whatever it takes. Guesses don't count. Now, that said, I just did my > accounting and I'm not very happy with it. How does eleven hundred > dollars > sound? Fricking insane? You're right! It is! WTF is the purchasing > department doing??? 1100 a month? Most grocery receipts are itemized now, you should be able to tell at a glance what the 'purchasing department' is doing...... From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 8 20:42:53 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 8 20:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The TSA's useless photo ID rules References: Message-ID: The TSA's useless photo ID rules No-fly lists and photo IDs are supposed to help protect the flying public from terrorists. Except that they don't work. By Bruce Schneier August 28, 2008 ) The TSA is tightening its photo ID rules at airport security. Previously, people with expired IDs or who claimed to have lost their IDs were subjected to secondary screening. Then the Transportation Security Administration realized that meant someone on the government's no-fly list -- the list that is supposed to keep our planes safe from terrorists -- could just fly with no ID. Now, people without ID must also answer personal questions from their credit history to ascertain their identity. The TSA will keep records of who those ID-less people are, too, in case they're trying to probe the system. This may seem like an improvement, except that the photo ID requirement is a joke. Anyone on the no-fly list can easily fly whenever he wants. Even worse, the whole concept of matching passenger names against a list of bad guys has negligible security value. How to fly, even if you are on the no-fly list: Buy a ticket in some innocent person's name. At home, before your flight, check in online and print out your boarding pass. Then, save that web page as a PDF and use Adobe Acrobat to change the name on the boarding pass to your own. Print it again. At the airport, use the fake boarding pass and your valid ID to get through security. At the gate, use the real boarding pass in the fake name to board your flight. The problem is that it is unverified passenger names that get checked against the no-fly list. At security checkpoints, the TSA just matches IDs to whatever is printed on the boarding passes. The airline checks boarding passes against tickets when people board the plane. But because no one checks ticketed names against IDs, the security breaks down. This vulnerability isn't new. It isn't even subtle. I first wrote about it in 2006. I asked Kip Hawley, who runs the TSA, about it in 2007. Today, any terrorist smart enough to Google "print your own boarding pass" can bypass the no-fly list. This gaping security hole would bother me more if the very idea of a no-fly list weren't so ineffective. The system is based on the faulty notion that the feds have this master list of terrorists, and all we have to do is keep the people on the list off the planes. That's just not true. The no-fly list -- a list of people so dangerous they are not allowed to fly yet so innocent we can't arrest them -- and the less dangerous "watch list" contain a combined 1 million names representing the identities and aliases of an estimated 400,000 people. There aren't that many terrorists out there; if there were, we would be feeling their effects. Almost all of the people stopped by the no-fly list are false positives. It catches innocents such as Ted Kennedy, whose name is similar to someone's on the list, and Islam Yusuf (formerly Cat Stevens), who was on the list but no one knew why. The no-fly list is a Kafkaesque nightmare for the thousands of innocent Americans who are harassed and detained every time they fly. Put on the list by unidentified government officials, they can't get off. They can't challenge the TSA about their status or prove their innocence. (The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals decided this month that no-fly passengers can sue the FBI, but that strategy hasn't been tried yet.) http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-schneier28-2008aug28,0,3099808.story From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 22:16:31 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Mon Sep 8 22:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13D4CD4F45TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was Sylvesterthekat ! > >> No way I could be more accurate than that because >> I don't keep grocery receipts. > > Well, then you're just making numbers up. You have to track it for a > while > anyway to know what's going on. And if you decide that, in general, > you're > starting to live closer to the edge than you want, you figure out where > the > money is going... My numbers pulled right from Microsoft Money reports... family of 4... Daughter 11, Son 7, Central MA Last 30 days: $574.27 Last 3 months: $1471.74 = $490.58/month Last 6 months: $3881.62 = $646.94/month Last 12 months: $8247.80 = $687.32/month From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 8 22:50:43 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 8 23:20:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13CF3237A77TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... | And, no, I don't just want a guess. Before you look at my number, I would | like anyone who is going to respond to this to actually go and do the math. | Add it up. Fire up your accounting program, get out your receipts, | whatever it takes. Guesses don't count. Now, that said, I just did my | accounting and I'm not very happy with it. How does eleven hundred dollars | sound? Fricking insane? You're right! It is! WTF is the purchasing | department doing??? Wife and I average $250 t0 $350 per month. My DIL 2 adults, three kids one a 2.5 y.o. one 8 y.o. and one 14 y.o spends around $350 on average. About once a month she comes home with more money than she set out with (she times her coupons). My oldest son spends near zero as he does all the cooking for his friends and they buy the food. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 05:25:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Tue Sep 9 05:30:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Palin hidden from the press - for TWO WEEKS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > Why is the media not screaming at the top of their lungs about this? > > http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/ Maybe because she's scheduled to be interviewed by Charles Gibson on ABC later this week? http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080907/ap_on_el_pr/palin From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 05:30:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Tue Sep 9 05:35:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > Great piece, including the line at the end of the first paragraph which > states > "The term "hit-and-run posting" is sometimes used, unjustifiably, > against people who don't have as much time to spend on a forum as others > and therefore have trouble keeping up with the posting pace." > > Many people do NOT have the time to instantly reply to postings. Many > people have jobs and other interests that keep them away from posting > for 12, 24,48, 96 hours or more..... For once I actually agree with you on something. From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 9 09:23:48 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 9 09:25:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? References: Message-ID: "Charles" | | > Wife and I average $250 to $350 per month. My DIL 2 adults, three | > kids one a 2.5 y.o. one 8 y.o. and one 14 y.o spends around $350 on | > average. About once a month she comes home with more money than she | > sets out with (she times her coupons). | > | > My oldest son spends near zero as he does all the cooking for his | > friends and they buy the food. | | Let me start this out by saying that I find your numbers pretty darned low. | Um. And that's about as far as I get, there... It's called DAM LOW. In part it's the result of being the children of depression era, blue collar, parents. As to my son and DIL at one time they were planning to work as lay missionaries which is one economic step below church mice. On the positive side we don't eat a lot of meat and what we do is via a small collective. We have a loose cooperative where several families buy animals, have them butchered and divide the meat. Excess is hard frozen in a commercial grade freezer. We also buy off season, in bulk and likewise freeze that. (you can get some great deals on turkey the Friday after Thanksgiving especially if you're buying in quantity. Over head such as the electric bill runs each family a few bucks each month. Staples such as rice, flower and corn have been a bit expensive this past year. Also we do a lot of scratch cooking. ( very little if any take out even for Chinese) If we make biscuits our cost is pennies for the ingredients vs. dollars buying a mix or the pre-made can biscuits. With things like coffee we do go out of character as we buy premium and use whole cream that works out to maybe $20 per month. One of my wife's clients runs a toy farm so we get eggs and a LOT of what others would consider high end organics for near nothing. Guy makes great sausage, good to eat but not good for you. It's a bit devious but we always drive my son's PU when we go visit as he will load us down with the excess much of which we carry to the food bank. He has raw milk but I'm not comfortable with that and don't want the hassle of Pasteurizing what little milk we use. Now that the grand kids are over the back fence I'm planning field trips to the U-pick berry farms and the like. Likely not any savings given the cost of gas but loads of fun. Just for grins we're doing a bit of yard ^2 gardening so some of our produce requirements comes from the back yard. Likely increase next year as I'm looking at a greenhouse. Daughter has a few peach trees (two varieties that fruit early and late) too much for our use so we trade with friends and neighbors for their excess. Not to mention a bit of very careful shopping and coupons. Hint: track the farm futures, I don't play the market but it does give a heads up on what might be had at a bargain and when. BTW Texas has no sales tax on groceries or Rx for that matter. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 14:17:55 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 9 14:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Obama's Favorite Islamist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.998/pub_detail.asp I mean, really, this is the one that kills me. We have a president that's part of a DYNASTY that has coddled the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for generations. And people have the cahones to write with a straight face, "Obama's Favorite Islamist"? Such hypocrisy I have never seen. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 17:47:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 9 17:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13D500370DBTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > That's a PITA, dude. But, anyway, purchasing any prepared foods will kill > you right off the bat. And purchasing isn't paying attention to prices, > anyway. Maybe purchasing is lucky enough not to have to, but the rest of us.....who's buying prepared food? I dread the end of my garden, I've been eating out of it since June, buying real food in the winter is going to suck. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 21:20:41 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 9 21:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Old, Grizzled Candidate May Steal Support From McCain Message-ID: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/old_grizzled_third_party From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:20:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:25:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The TSA's useless photo ID rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:ga4gq9$tdj$1@news.spamcop.net... > The TSA's useless photo ID rules > > No-fly lists and photo IDs are supposed to help protect the flying public > from terrorists. Except that they don't work. Nice of them to give precise descriptions on how to beat the system... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:22:19 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13CF3237A77TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... . How does eleven hundred dollars > sound? Fricking insane? You're right! It is! WTF is the purchasing > department doing??? That much for what time period? A month? Welcome to my world. My healthcare expenses are more than that for one month, dude. Eating is cheap in comparison! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:30:55 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi, see Spa? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1388136DFE4sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > Those last four or so laps were just edge of the seat, bite the nails to > the quick heart stoppers! Yeah, they had me on the edge of the couch....but didja hear that they penalized Hamilton 25 seconds for that lap when he went off track and took the paved "shortcut"? He let Kimi get back ahead of him by like the rules required, but then he passed Kimi in the straight right before Kimi spun at the next turn. He ended up 3rd, I think, in the end, Massa was given the win. What a stupid ruling, guys were going off there all day long with no penalty! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:33:05 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1387EBE50D1sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > Charles wrote in > news:Xns9B139121F50B8TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > >> Is it Joe or is it... Jerry??? Stay tuned! >> > > And do we care? Makes no difference if you don't bother reading any of it. Joe Gill has been around for a while, I trust him. What raised any suspicion? Geez, everyone is getting paranoid around here as the election nears! Charles, it's all YOUR fault! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:37:53 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:ga3dse$rml$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Charles" < > > | So now they've socialized fannie mae and freddie mac? WTF? > > Makes perfect sense. Protects the bankers, realtors, mortgage insurance > and > investors. Nuh-uh. The investors just lost 90% of the value of their stock (or more). > > I don't buy the claim of protecting the home owner. > > Actually, from what I've heard of what's going to happen (and y'all know I keep up on what's going on in the stock market), homeowners will be "saved" more often than not but this nationalization of Freddie Mac and Fannie May. The government is buying the distressed mortgages, and will work out payment plans that will keep people in their houses instead of running away and defaulting. The feds don't have to make a big profit to please their shareholders. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:38:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13D47154D67TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > At least, a very good case could be made for that argument, eh? And I > don't hear others saying that they would have gone belly up. I freely > admit that it's a possibility, but I don't hear it. I was listening to > the > interview with Sec Paulson this AM and he didn't mention that, unless I > was > spacing out while driving, or something. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:43:09 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B13D47154D67TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Joe Gill" ! > >> In the theoretical sense, there should have been NO intervention at >> all. They should have just let Freddie and Fannie go belly up. >> The problems are: >> 1) It would take down a lot more than just Fredie and Fannie >> 2) It would drive interest rates throught the ceiling >> 3) It would have destroyed the housing market and ruined a lot of >> lives > > These are exaggerations of potential problems (emphasis on potential). > But > we've been through this before... Making something seem to be a much > larger problem than it is then offering a solution that, incidentally, > makes you and your buddies a lot of cash. They're not exaggerations, they were responsible for keeping mortgage rates higher than they should have been. Word has it that the Russians an Chinese, who held a boatload of those mortgage backed securities, put a ton of pressure on DC to resolve the mortgage disaster. No "stockholders" made any money, in fact they saw their stock value drop from $6 to less than $1 yesterday. > > At least, a very good case could be made for that argument, eh? And I > don't hear others saying that they would have gone belly up. I freely > admit that it's a possibility, but I don't hear it. I was listening to > the > interview with Sec Paulson this AM and he didn't mention that, unless I > was > spacing out while driving, or something. You were spacing out. Those frigging companies had actually bought insecure (non-collateralized) loans ON MARGIN! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:44:35 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sock Puppet Theater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:ga1oel$99t$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Oi, am not! It's just that season again, and hypocrisy drives me > nuts...... > > You just proved that you were doing it ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 22:47:03 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 9 22:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Musical Taste Defines Personality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:ga1ir2$j17$2@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> Where's the "alternative/New Wave" group? Or the Blues? Soul != Blues > > alternative could be indie. No way do they even come close to any kind of resemblance! "Indie" is code for some kind of funky folk music, IMO. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 00:10:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Wed Sep 10 00:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Nuh-uh. The investors just lost 90% of the value of their stock (or more). As I understand it, that's true for the common stock holders... but the holders of the preferred stock (read that: banks, other financial institutions, etc.) have priority over them and probably won't lose as much of the value of their investments. From dfmanno at mail.com Wed Sep 10 01:51:39 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Wed Sep 10 01:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: In article , "Joe Gill" wrote: > "Tim McGraw" wrote: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_posting > > Great piece, including the line at the end of the first paragraph which > states > "The term "hit-and-run posting" is sometimes used, unjustifiably, against > people who don't have as much time to spend on a forum as others and > therefore have trouble keeping up with the posting pace." > > Many people do NOT have the time to instantly reply to postings. Many people > have jobs and other interests that keep them away from posting for 12, > 24,48, 96 hours or more..... But you _never_ reply to posts (excepting this thread). You start threads with inflammatory posts, then vanish until the next flurry. Which fits the first sentence of the Wiki piece to a T. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Hey, Gov. Palin: Jesus Christ was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor. From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 10 01:54:52 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 10 02:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The TSA's useless photo ID rules References: Message-ID: "Indigo" net... | > The TSA's useless photo ID rules | > | > No-fly lists and photo IDs are supposed to help protect the flying public | > from terrorists. Except that they don't work. | | Nice of them to give precise descriptions on how to beat the system... Hey it's all over the internet. FWIW one can find all the stuff necessary to do some serious damage in most high school chemistry/physics labs and the TSA would never see it. But then you could p*ss on most TSA upper management's boot and they would declare it was raining. In FEMA case they would mandate a hurricane evacuation From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 10 10:20:53 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 10 11:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Action speak louder than words Message-ID: Action speak louder than words http://www.examiner.com:80/x-796-Mental-Health-Examiner I wonder if folk will see her coming and not be blinded From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 11:58:28 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 12:00:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The TSA's useless photo ID rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:ga7qja$k6d$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Indigo" > net... > | > The TSA's useless photo ID rules > | > > | > No-fly lists and photo IDs are supposed to help protect the flying > public > | > from terrorists. Except that they don't work. > | > | Nice of them to give precise descriptions on how to beat the system... > > Hey it's all over the internet. That's what I have an issue with, not you posting it. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 12:13:37 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 12:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Republicans Are Morons" wrote in message news:ga7hbt$fvh$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: > >> Nuh-uh. The investors just lost 90% of the value of their stock (or >> more). > > As I understand it, that's true for the common stock holders... but the > holders of the preferred stock (read that: banks, other financial > institutions, etc.) have priority over them and probably won't lose as > much of the value of their investments. Yes, the "commoners" got wiped out, but the preferred holders got hammered too -- what's the value of a high dividend preferred issue that won't be paying a dividend anymore? Answer = not much. You could check the current price of the preferreds online, I'm pretty sure they're next to worthless too. Last time I looked they were bouncing around $8-$10 dollars up and down on a near daily basis, enormous price swings. And a lot of "normal", especially retired, folks own preferred stocks of all types, because they tend to provide much higher dividends (and thus a steady cash flow) than the common. For instance, my Dad lives off the monthly dividends he gets from one of his retirement investments, he doesn't have to touch the capital. He was lucky to retire right near the end of the stock boom in the 90's, so his retirement investment values soared right before he moved them to safe non-market equities, avoiding the dot.com bubble collapse of 2000. If I should be so lucky.....yesterday I took the single biggest one day hit to my accounts I've ever had, talk about demoralizing.....I managed to get out of my one crude oil-based ETFs with a total loss of only $12 in my IRA (including dividends payed), the ONLY good thing that happened yesterday. I'll be keeping the proceeds in cash for a while, too nervous about the market trends to buy anything right now. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 12:18:43 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Wed Sep 10 12:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > It wasn't me! It was "Indigo" ! > >> Charles, it's all YOUR fault! > > Uh. I blame the crooner, man. Me? Sing? You're a very funny guy. I'm around musicians a lot, that's for sure. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 12:21:45 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Wed Sep 10 12:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Action speak louder than words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > http://www.examiner.com:80/x-796-Mental-Health-Examiner "Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn?t cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years." http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 12:44:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 10 12:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Different point of view Message-ID: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0905/1220544890619.html The good news is that history often repeats itself. In the 1984 Miss Alaska contest, Sarah Palin lost to Marilyne Blackburn, the first African-American Miss Alaska. From loafman at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 13:27:59 2008 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Wed Sep 10 13:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Obama's Favorite Islamist References: Message-ID: On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:17:55 -0700, Tim McGraw wrote: > Joe Gill wrote: >> http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.998/pub_detail.asp > > I mean, really, this is the one that kills me. > > We have a president that's part of a DYNASTY that has coddled the > Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for generations. > > And people have the cahones to write with a straight face, "Obama's > Favorite Islamist"? > > Such hypocrisy I have never seen. You have not been watching the Republicans much then. You'd get more than your fill of this kind of BS. From loafman at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 13:34:39 2008 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Wed Sep 10 13:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense References: Message-ID: On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:33:19 +0000, Charles wrote: > So now they've socialized fannie mae and freddie mac? WTF? This was a Cover Your Ass move by the The Shrub and The Penguin. Simply fire a couple at the top to make sure someone is "punished" with their golden parachute, nationalize it, and keep the riffraff (public/press) out so no one finds out how high it goes. From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 10 13:32:44 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 10 13:40:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The TSA's useless photo ID rules References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:ga8qr4$udu$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Frog Prince" wrote in message | news:ga7qja$k6d$1@news.spamcop.net... | > "Indigo" | > net... | > | > The TSA's useless photo ID rules | > | > | > | > No-fly lists and photo IDs are supposed to help protect the flying | > public | > | > from terrorists. Except that they don't work. | > | | > | Nice of them to give precise descriptions on how to beat the system... | > | > Hey it's all over the internet. | | That's what I have an issue with, not you posting it. I realise that but appariently TSA and HS have no clue (no surprise there). As for the posting the information has been all over long before this artical was published. From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 10 13:38:53 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 10 13:40:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Action speak louder than words References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:ga8s6p$3oc$2@news.spamcop.net... | Frog Prince wrote: | > http://www.examiner.com:80/x-796-Mental-Health-Examiner | | "Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 | percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil | funding over just three years." | http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html Special needs EDUCATION is covered by federal law. Cut that and you end up with a cut in fed money and in court likely with a summery judgment. My take is she cut other benefits and those drastically. Not unlike GWB when he pulled the plug on meds for mental health. Saved the state of Texas as bundle but cost the local LEO and governments a ton to deal with folk that were once somewhat productive and not a problem who became unproductive and a serious problem. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 14:07:16 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 10 14:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:ga7bl3$v1d$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Joe Gill has been around for a while, I trust him. What raised any > suspicion? Geez, everyone is getting paranoid around here as the election > nears! Charles, it's all YOUR fault! There's a difference between "paranoid" and being observant....but if you enjoy trollfeeding and conversing with someone who has been asked not to post here but pathetically continues to try to 'sneak in' under other nicks, that's your problem From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 14:08:04 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 14:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Kenneth Loafman" wrote in message news:ga90ff$hcm$2@news.spamcop.net... > On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:33:19 +0000, Charles wrote: > >> So now they've socialized fannie mae and freddie mac? WTF? > > This was a Cover Your Ass move by the The Shrub and The Penguin. Simply > fire a couple at the top to make sure someone is "punished" with their > golden parachute, nationalize it, and keep the riffraff (public/press) > out so no one finds out how high it goes. It's WAY more complicated than that -- for one, the Shrub had absolutely nothing to do with running either agency, they were completely separate from the government except for the fact that mortgages issued by them were backed by the Fed. The idiots running both places made some mind-bogglingly stupid financial moves that ruined each company. Google them. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 14:42:12 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Wed Sep 10 14:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Obama's Favorite Islamist References: Message-ID: "Kenneth Loafman" wrote in message news:ga902v$hcm$1@news.spamcop.net... > On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:17:55 -0700, Tim McGraw wrote: > >> Joe Gill wrote: >>> http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.998/pub_detail.asp >> >> I mean, really, this is the one that kills me. >> >> We have a president that's part of a DYNASTY that has coddled the >> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for generations. >> >> And people have the cahones to write with a straight face, "Obama's >> Favorite Islamist"? >> >> Such hypocrisy I have never seen. > > You have not been watching the Republicans much then. You'd get more > than your fill of this kind of BS. And what about the Family Values Hockey mum? What kind of family values did she instill with her just say no sex education, and her sons pregnant 17yo. gf, whom, if his website is/was? real he has no plans to marry, and her daughter? Hypocrisy? From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 10 16:26:56 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 10 16:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP's effort to challenge some voters on Election Day. "We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren't voting from those addresses," party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed. State election rules allow parties to assign "election challengers" to polls to monitor the election. In addition to observing the poll workers, these volunteers can challenge the eligibility of any voter provided they "have a good reason to believe" that the person is not eligible to vote. One allowable reason is that the person is not a "true resident of the city or township." The Michigan Republicans' planned use of foreclosure lists is apparently an attempt to challenge ineligible voters as not being "true residents." One expert questioned the legality of the tactic. "You can't challenge people without a factual basis for doing so," said J. Gerald Hebert, a former voting rights litigator for the U.S. Justice Department who now runs the Campaign Legal Center, a Washington D.C.-based public-interest law firm. "I don't think a foreclosure notice is sufficient basis for a challenge, because people often remain in their homes after foreclosure begins and sometimes are able to negotiate and refinance." As for the practice of challenging the right to vote of foreclosed property owners, Hebert called it, "mean-spirited." GOP ties to state's largest foreclosure law firm The Macomb GOP's plans are another indication of how John McCain's campaign stands to benefit from the burgeoning number of foreclosures in the state. McCain's regional headquarters are housed in the office building of foreclosure specialists Trott & Trott. The firm's founder, David A. Trott, has given at least $23,000 to McCain's campaign and raised between $100,000 and $250,000 for the Republican nominee. The Macomb County party's plans to challenge voters who have defaulted on their house payments is likely to disproportionately affect African-Americans who are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. More than 60 percent of all sub-prime loans - the most likely kind of loan to go into default - were made to African-Americans in Michigan, according to a report issued last year by the state's Department of Labor and Economic Growth. Challenges to would-be voters Statewide, the Republican Party is gearing up for a comprehensive voter challenge campaign, according to Denise Graves, party chair for Republicans in Genessee County, which encompasses Flint. The party is creating a spreadsheet of election challenger volunteers and expects to coordinate a training with the regional McCain campaign, Graves said in an interview with Michigan Messenger. Whether the Republicans will challenge voters with foreclosed homes elsewhere in the state is not known. Kelly Harrigan, deputy director of the GOP's voter programs, confirmed that she is coordinating the group's "election integrity" program. Harrigan said the effort includes putting in place a legal team, as well as training election challengers. She said the challenges to voters were procedural rather than personal. She referred inquiries about the vote challenge program to communications director Bill Knowles who promised information but did not return calls. Party chairman Carabelli said that the Republican Party is training election challengers to "make sure that [voters] are who they say who they are." When asked for further details on how Republicans are compiling challenge lists, he said, "I would rather not tell you all the things we are doing." Vote suppression: Not an isolated effort Carabelli is not the only Republican Party official to suggest the targeting of foreclosed voters. In Ohio, Doug Preisse, director of elections in Franklin County (around the city of Columbus) and the chair of the local GOP, told The Columbus Dispatch that he has not ruled out challenging voters before the election due to foreclosure-related address issues. Hebert, the voting-rights lawyer, sees a connection between Priesse's remarks and Carabelli's plans. "At a minimum what you are seeing is a fairly comprehensive effort by the Republican Party, a systematic broad-based effort to put up obstacles for people to vote," he said. "Nobody is contending that these people are not legally registered to vote. "When you are comprehensively challenging people to vote," Hebert went on, "your goals are two-fold: One is you are trying to knock people out from casting ballots; the other is to create a slowdown that will discourage others," who see a long line and realize they can't afford to stay and wait. Challenging all voters registered to foreclosed homes could disrupt some polling places, especially in the Detroit metropolitan area. According to the real estate Web site RealtyTrac, one in every 176 households in Wayne County, metropolitan Detroit, received a foreclosure filing during the month of July. In Macomb County, the figure was one household in every 285, meaning that 1,834 homeowners received the bad news in just one month. The Macomb County foreclosure rate puts it in the top three percent of all U.S. counties in the number of distressed homeowners. Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Kent and Genessee counties were - in that order - the counties with the most homeowners facing foreclosure, according to RealtyTrac. As of July, there were more than 62,000 foreclosure filings in the entire state. Joe Rozell, director of elections for Oakland County in suburban Detroit, acknowledged that challenges such as those described by Carabelli are allowed by law but said they have the potential to create long lines and disrupt the voting process. With 890,000 potential voters closely divided between Democratic and Republican, Oakland County is a key swing county of this swing state. According to voter challenge directives handed down by Republican Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land, voter challenges need only be "based on information obtained through a reliable source or means." "But poll workers are not allowed to ask the reason" for the challenges, Rozell said. In other words, Republican vote challengers are free to use foreclosure lists as a basis for disqualifying otherwise eligible voters. David Lagstein, head organizer with the Michigan Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), described the plans of the Macomb GOP as "crazy." "You would think they would think, 'This is going to look too heartless,'" said Lagstein, whose group has registered 200,000 new voters statewide this year and also runs a foreclosure avoidance program. "The Republican-led state Senate has not moved on the anti-predatory lending bill for over a year and yet [Republicans] have time to prey on those who have fallen victim to foreclosure to suppress the vote." From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 18:27:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 10 18:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Obama's Favorite Islamist References: Message-ID: "Bar0" wrote in message news:ga94ds$ctf$1@news.spamcop.net... > > And what about the Family Values Hockey mum? > > What kind of family values did she instill with her just say no sex > education, and her sons pregnant 17yo. gf, whom, if his website is/was? > real he has no plans to marry, and her daughter? > > Hypocrisy? Eh what? The son has a pregnant girlfriend? Where did hear that? From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 18:51:34 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 10 18:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Different point of view References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1595A8C1FC1sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > LOL. Wouldn't that be sweet. > > It will be especially sweet if Obama does win because some asshole in our > building who lives opposite the elevator has a poster on his door in which > there are three pics - mccain, hillary and obama and under mccain he's got > 2008, under hillary, 2016 and under Obama NEVER. Bloody racist. I think a poster on one's door is just begging to be defaced. Not that you'd do such a thing.... LOL From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 18:52:35 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 10 18:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Old, Grizzled Candidate May Steal Support From McCain References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:ga77db$ghc$1@news.spamcop.net... > http://www.theonion.com/content/video/old_grizzled_third_party Bwah...loved the sending missiles to China line, that made me laugh out loud. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 21:42:33 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 21:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B15C69EFD53BTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Indigo" ! > >> Welcome to my world. My healthcare expenses are more than that for one >> month, dude. Eating is cheap in comparison! > > Really? Weird. That's why we have health insurance! We've burned up our > deductible and now everything is free. You don't have COBRA coverage, and most of your treatments are not of the "alternative medicine" type (the only kind of treatment that has been effective in fighting my ailments). My lyme doc, PT, and chiropractor are covered, but my acupuncturist and another therapist are not. Plus I take something like 20 different meds and supplements daily, some are not cheap, and only the few scrip meds I take (5?) are covered. All tallied up, a full one third of my disability checks have gone to paying healthcare related bills this year. Having knee surgery didn't help, nor did injuring my lower back a couple months ago. Both cost me a lot out of pocket, only get 80% coverage, and the IV Colchicine treatments that cured my back totaled $1000, not a penny covered since it was off-label use of the drug. My insurance alone costs $375/month, whereas when I was employed it was about $50/month with out of pocket max of $1000/year. I think my out of pocket max is $2000, and since I rarely get bills from docs/therapists covered by my insurance, I haven't reached it yet. The scrip drug max out of pocket is a separate $1000 deal. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 22:02:05 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi, see Spa? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B158C6A1A922sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > I note that Kimi hasn't said anything about it but Massa has (he says > Lewis was in the wrong). But other notables like Lauda and Renault's > head honcho Symonds both say it's a travesty. Well.....he did follow the letter of the law by coming back on track behind Massa, but then again he came off the run-off strip with more speed than Massa because he missed the turn and the pass was a piece of cake, he blew right by him. Kind of a grey area, I don't know if there's anything in the rules in F1 about getting a competitive advantage by going off track like there is at Laguna Seca -- the "Alex Zanardi Rule". At the top of the wild S-curves straight down the side of the hill called "the Corkscrew", he straightlined it one year in a CART race and passed the leader for the win on the last lap. Dangerous move, but he made it work, bouncing thru the grass and dirt. After that, they made a rule for that track specifically for that section that made the move illegal. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 22:07:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:ga9ard$a6i$1@news.spamcop.net... > "You would think they would think, 'This is going to look too > heartless,'" said Lagstein, whose group has registered 200,000 new > voters statewide this year and also runs a foreclosure avoidance > program. "The Republican-led state Senate has not moved on the > anti-predatory lending bill for over a year and yet [Republicans] have > time to prey on those who have fallen victim to foreclosure to > suppress the vote." > > That IS incredibly heartless, and I hope it blows up in their fucking faces. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 22:10:26 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:ga92ck$4c0$1@news.spamcop.net... ....but if you > enjoy trollfeeding and conversing with someone who has been asked not to > post here but pathetically continues to try to 'sneak in' under other > nicks, that's your problem > Got proof of that? Show me the IPs. He's been around for over a year posting as "Joe Gill", that's why I'm calling into question the attacks on him for sock puppetry. From dfmanno at mail.com Wed Sep 10 22:21:39 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: In article , Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Frog Prince" wrote in news:ga9ard$a6i$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote > > They're despicable. But then we already knew that. It wouldn't remotely > surprise me if they also had data showing whether someone was a registered > republican and then fail to hassle that person at polling time. > > Seems odd to me anyway - what does your address have to do with it? Most > likely you're still living somewhere in the vicinity so surely you can > still vote? Generally, if you're no longer living at the address at which you're registered, you can not vote in the precinct in which you're registered, and you can't vote at a precinct in which you're not registered. You're supposed to notify election officials when your address changes. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 22:50:57 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:ga9umj$idf$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Got proof of that? Show me the IPs. He's been around for over a year > posting as "Joe Gill", that's why I'm calling into question the attacks on > him for sock puppetry. not him, you goober....the other one, who showed up and was instantly nasty. See if you can sort that one out for yourself...... From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 10 23:41:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Wed Sep 10 23:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-820075.22213910092008@news.cesmail.net... > In article , > Sylvesterthekat wrote: > >> "Frog Prince" wrote in >> news:ga9ard$a6i$1@news.spamcop.net: >> >> > http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote >> >> They're despicable. But then we already knew that. It wouldn't remotely >> surprise me if they also had data showing whether someone was a >> registered >> republican and then fail to hassle that person at polling time. >> >> Seems odd to me anyway - what does your address have to do with it? Most >> likely you're still living somewhere in the vicinity so surely you can >> still vote? > > Generally, if you're no longer living at the address at which you're > registered, you can not vote in the precinct in which you're registered, > and you can't vote at a precinct in which you're not registered. > > You're supposed to notify election officials when your address changes. > > -- > D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com > Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of > the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) Correct, I've just never seen any political party work so hard at preventing voters from voting as the republican party since WGB took charge. Generally in the past both parties tried to register as get as many as possible to vote, sometimes more than once ;-). Vote early and often. *supposedly the late R.M.Dailey From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 11 00:15:36 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 11 00:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gaa412$408$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "D.F. Manno" wrote in message | news:dfmanno-820075.22213910092008@news.cesmail.net... | > In article , | > Sylvesterthekat wrote: | > | >> "Frog Prince" wrote in | >> news:ga9ard$a6i$1@news.spamcop.net: | >> | >> > http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote | >> | >> They're despicable. But then we already knew that. It wouldn't remotely | >> surprise me if they also had data showing whether someone was a | >> registered | >> republican and then fail to hassle that person at polling time. | >> | >> Seems odd to me anyway - what does your address have to do with it? Most | >> likely you're still living somewhere in the vicinity so surely you can | >> still vote? | > | > Generally, if you're no longer living at the address at which you're | > registered, you can not vote in the precinct in which you're registered, | > and you can't vote at a precinct in which you're not registered. | > | > You're supposed to notify election officials when your address changes. | > | | | Correct, I've just never seen any political party work so hard at preventing | voters from voting as the republican party since WGB took charge. Generally | in the past both parties tried to register as get as many as possible to | vote, sometimes more than once ;-). In one case in Florida the firm paid (by the Rep SoS) to unlist felons had the commissioner of voters (a democrat) on the purge list. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 00:32:23 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Thu Sep 11 00:35:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Obama's Favorite Islamist References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:ga9hk7$5d9$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Bar0" wrote in message > news:ga94ds$ctf$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> And what about the Family Values Hockey mum? >> >> What kind of family values did she instill with her just say no sex >> education, and her sons pregnant 17yo. gf, whom, if his website is/was? >> real he has no plans to marry, and her daughter? >> >> Hypocrisy? > > Eh what? The son has a pregnant girlfriend? Where did hear that? > I'm beginning to think my source was full of it. The story I had was that his web site (social networking such as my space etc perhaps) discussed his lack of empathy with his purportedly expecting gf rather cold heartedly. If he had such a web or social site, it would surely be down or fixed by now., although google could pull up a cached version . It would also be bigger news by now, so I'm going to retract on that one. (red face) googling "Track Palin" + pregnant + girlfriend leads to some summaries that juxtapose Track with Bristols pregnancy, so my source may have misread/misinterpreted what s/he saw. Nevertheless, when the campaign begins to turn on family values and such, then the innocent are dragged in.. From joegill at removethis Thu Sep 11 01:36:16 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Thu Sep 11 01:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:ga3gjd$78b$2@news.spamcop.net... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_posting WOW! I cannot believe the assumptions, rush to judgment etc. etc .in this group.... For the record, I did post to this group at least 8 times since July 15 of this year.. I did not start many threads. In a couple of instances, I replied to a couple of technical or customer service issues. In addition, I also post to spamcop.geeks. I also observed quite a bit in this group. I saw many people come and go.. I never made an attempt to hide/change/alter identity I saw some people make postings and never have a dialogue or any responses. In addition, I picked up that this group was way left of center in most areas. In fact I could find no balance or even attempt It appeared that this was basically a 'bush bashing' group, if anything political came up. Also, it appeared that Obama had achieved the rank of "Anointed One" here. I made 3 postings, that I felt were as far right of center, as most of the others were left of center. Also, I do not have time, to come back every few hours and post/respond. The vitriol and knee-jerk reactions in this group really surprised me. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 01:55:42 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Thu Sep 11 02:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] More lies and distortions from the McCain campaign... Message-ID: ...including one where they totally distorted an earlier report by FactCheck.org debunking attacks on Palin that *didn't even come from Obama* (!). I have to wonder if the McCain campaign is even capable of generating a truthful campaign ad - based on their sorry track record so far, I'm beginning to highly doubt it. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html Off Base on Sex Ed "A McCain campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" was a bill to teach sex ed to kindergarten kids. Don't believe it." http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html McCain-Palin Distorts Our Finding "Those attacks on Palin that we debunked didn't come from Obama." From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 03:42:02 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Thu Sep 11 03:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > Also, it appeared that Obama had achieved the rank of "Anointed One" here. You must be thinking of Ronald Reagan? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 04:33:17 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Thu Sep 11 04:35:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Republicans don't make no sense In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Yes, the "commoners" got wiped out, but the preferred holders got > hammered too You are correct. I did a little more research after I posted that, and found out that the preferred was held by a lot more people than just the banks (etc.). And the upshot is that the two CEOs are slated to walk off with millions in "golden parachute" exit bonuses, though both presidential candidates are opposed to it (and I have to give McCain credit for doing the right thing on this one). From gezgin at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 07:48:45 2008 From: gezgin at spamcop.net (Opinicus) Date: Thu Sep 11 07:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] "Power your pines" Message-ID: Spammers' efforts to circumvent keyword filters reach a new and pathetic low... http://www.spamcop.net/sc?id=z2237302542zb1be11539f170571aae297a9ecb2304bz -- Bob http://www.kanyak.com From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 11 08:40:20 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 11 08:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: "Power your pines" References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B16548CEB4A3TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... | Oops :) Wrong group! | | But, hey, I had some amazing strong dark Belgian ale last night. Of | course, I had that the night before and the night before that, too - I made | a lot of it! | | How 'bout you? At that rate of consumption you're not drinking you're filtering. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 11:18:38 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Thu Sep 11 11:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Frog Prince wrote: >> http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote > > They're despicable. But then we already knew that. It wouldn't remotely > surprise me if they also had data showing whether someone was a registered > republican and then fail to hassle that person at polling time. > > Seems odd to me anyway - what does your address have to do with it? Do I have to have a home to register to vote? State laws vary, but you don?t need to live in a traditional dwelling to register. Usually, you will need to show some intent to stay in the voting district, but you may list a park or street location. The voter registration form asks for a mailing address - what should I put down? You may use the address of a shelter, relative, or social service agency to communicate with the Board of Elections. Some states allow correspondence via courthouses or county clerks' offices. http://www.nlchp.org/content/pubs/Voting_Rights_Fact_Sheet_20081.pdf From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 18:23:35 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 11 18:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" wrote in message news:gaaaoi$nne$1@news.spamcop.net... > > In addition, I picked up that this group was way left of center in most > areas. In fact I could find no balance or even attempt It appeared that > this was basically a 'bush bashing' group, if anything political came up. And your problem with that would be what? He's run this country INTO THE GROUND. You will not find a sympathetic ear here for your right wing rants, and posting all the inflammatory crap you can find won't change anyone's mind. You observed that no one agreed with your opinion, and yet you post probably the most provocative and incendiary things you can find, for what purpose? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 18:24:58 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 11 18:25:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Obama's Favorite Islamist References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gaa70r$c85$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I'm beginning to think my source was full of it. The story I had was that > his web site (social networking such as my space etc perhaps) discussed > his lack of empathy with his purportedly expecting gf rather cold > heartedly. > > If he had such a web or social site, it would surely be down or fixed by > now., although google could pull up a cached version . > > It would also be bigger news by now, so I'm going to retract on that one. > (red face) > > googling "Track Palin" + pregnant + girlfriend leads to some summaries > that juxtapose Track with Bristols pregnancy, so my source may have > misread/misinterpreted what s/he saw. > > Nevertheless, when the campaign begins to turn on family values and such, > then the innocent are dragged in.. One of the other stories not picked up by the MSM is that he enlisted to avoid jail, for being caught in a big vandalism case. Oh, for it to be true..... From avoozl at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 19:24:35 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Thu Sep 11 19:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gac5pa$97t$1@news.spamcop.net... > > And your problem with that would be what? He's run this country INTO THE > GROUND. You will not find a sympathetic ear here for your right wing > rants, and posting all the inflammatory crap you can find won't change > anyone's mind. You observed that no one agreed with your opinion, and yet > you post probably the most provocative and incendiary things you can find, > for what purpose? > He would.. if I thought posting would do anything but fuel the flames. IIRC, if people aren't liberal democrats in mindset they don't typically get much respect in here. YMMV. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 21:26:47 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 11 21:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi, see Spa? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B16967459692sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1741 > > Here's a few paragraphs from it. Like I said, a VERY grey area......expect some rule changes real quick now. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 11 21:32:21 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 11 21:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: What are you spending on groceries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B164BE35B926TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It wasn't me! It was "Indigo" ! >> and most of your treatments are not of the "alternative medicine" type > > You are 100% correct. And for good reason. > Well, in the Lymie world, unfortunately alternative medicine treatment seems to help the most people the best, probably because Western medicine doesn't give a damn about a relatively small group of patients, even though they are in great need of help. I blame part of the problem on the complexity of diagnosing and treating Lyme and it's co-infections, since it can mimic so many other diseases. My doc takes it as a personal challenge to heal his patients, but he's a young go-getter. Your ordinary GP doesn't want to be bothered with having to learn so much about something that affects so few of his patients. From avoozl at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 04:55:46 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Fri Sep 12 05:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B16A9074C79Esylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > That's not true. What we dislike is posting total nonsense and offensive > stuff (such as the rant about immigrants) deliberately to inflame and > cause > a reaction. If someone wants to discuss why the Republicans have it right > and that voting them in yet again would be a good thing for the country, > we're perfectly capable of listening. But we might think they were insane > lol (based on the evidence of the past 8 years). I don't think it's > possible to deny that the country is in the worst position it's been in a > very very long time, economically and in world opinion. Ok. Fair enough. However, what each person would agree is BS and offensive is quite different. if I run across something that pisses me off I mostly don't say anything as I'm not here to stir up trouble. :) The blame doesn't solely rest with the republicans or the bush adminstration. It's equally shared amongst congress and voters who continue to put the same people in office nationwide. Chris From avoozl at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 04:56:43 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Fri Sep 12 05:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B16A7E8DCD53sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "D.F. Manno" wrote in > news:dfmanno-820075.22213910092008@news.cesmail.net: > >> Generally, if you're no longer living at the address at which you're >> registered, you can not vote in the precinct in which you're >> registered, and you can't vote at a precinct in which you're not >> registered. > > > But doesn't it take like, a day, to register to vote? Yes, but then they need to go verify all that information... and that can take a while. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 06:50:33 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Sep 12 06:55:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] It was only a matter of time... Message-ID: ..before it showed up in human food....it might not be in baby formula in this country, but when you consider that most vitamins and supplements come from China, how long will it be before it's discovered? http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-formula12-2008sep12,0,6811289.story The contaminant in the Chinese infant formula is melamine, the same substance found in tainted pet food that sickened or killed thousands of dogs and cats in 2007. The addition of melamine, which is normally found in plastics, can make food appear, in testing, to have higher levels of protein. Ingestion of melamine can cause kidney failure. From dfmanno at mail.com Fri Sep 12 14:14:19 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Fri Sep 12 14:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: In article , Sylvesterthekat wrote: > D.F. Manno wrote: > > > Generally, if you're no longer living at the address at which you're > > registered, you can not vote in the precinct in which you're > > registered, and you can't vote at a precinct in which you're not > > registered. > > But doesn't it take like, a day, to register to vote? In most places, you can register by mail. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) From dfmanno at mail.com Fri Sep 12 14:16:08 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Fri Sep 12 14:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Michigan republicans plan to disenfranchise voters who foreclosed?? References: Message-ID: In article , "bar0" wrote: > Correct, I've just never seen any political party work so hard at preventing > voters from voting as the republican party since WGB took charge. Generally > in the past both parties tried to register as get as many as possible to > vote, sometimes more than once ;-). It stems from the Rovian tactic of playing almost exclusively to your base in a campaign. In most elections, the base isn't large enough to get you a win, so you work to suppress turnout among non-base voters while mounting a vigorous GOTV effort among the base. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 12 16:47:55 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 12 17:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Sarah Palin's Wasilla Emails: Did She Violate State Law? Message-ID: Sarah Palin's Wasilla Emails: Did She Violate State Law? Sarah Palin made her bones as a self-proclaimed Republican reformer in Alaska when she turned on a Republican Party state chairman who had had been accused of wrongdoing. In 2003, that GOP leader, Randy Ruedrich, was one of three members of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission; Palin chaired the commission and served as its ethics officer. After the news broke that Ruedrich had hosted a Republican fundraiser with several oil company executives and had sent out an email notice for a different Republican fundraising event, critics demanded he resign. Leading the anti-Ruedrich pack was Palin. She threatened to quit the commission unless Ruedrich resolved his conflicts. "It was a very simple issue," she said at the time. "It was black and white." And after Ruedrich was forced out, Palin, acting at the behest of state investigators, examined his computer files and found emails and documents showing that Ruedrich had used his state office to conduct partisan work for the Republican Party. The records Palin unearthed became evidence in a state investigation that led to a settlement under which Ruedrich paid a $12,000 fine. Thanks to this episode, Palin became known as a Republican willing to take on a fellow Republican who had abused his office and misused state resources. But what was not known at the time was that a year earlier, Palin had used official resources for her own partisan purposes. In doing so, Palin, now the governor of Alaska and the Republican vice presidential nominee, might have run afoul of state law and the municipal code of Wasilla. According to emails obtained by Andrée McLeod, a self-described independent government watchdog in Alaska, and shared with Mother Jones, in 2002, when Palin was in her last year as mayor of Wasilla and running for lieutenant governor in a Republican primary, she used her official city email account for campaign purposes. In a June 11, 2002 email to Randy Ruedrich--sent from her sarah@ci.wasilla.ak.us account--Palin asked if the state Republican Party would disseminate notices for her fundraisers. "I have a heckuva' lot of notices I would love to be distributed to all the [state party] lists because I'm not networked into all the valuable distribution lists that other candidates may be networked into," she wrote. "Can you do that for me?" http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/09/9688_palin_mayor_email_violate_law.html From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 12 16:59:31 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 12 17:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] WTF? and Obama's camp is not doing anything with the info? Message-ID: HEALTHCARE, McCAIN STYLE....Joe Klein wants to get out of the gutter and talk about the issues: Today's issue: health insurance. John McCain wants to tax your employer-provided health care benefits. He wants to replace those benefits with an insufficient tax credit — $2500 for individuals and $5000 for families (the average cost per family for health insurance is $12000). ....It is amazing to me that Obama campaign has let things go this far without pointing out that McCain — who opposes the energy bill because it would increase taxes on oil companies — is actually proposing a tax increase on health care benefits for American workers. But that is precisely what the Senator from Arizona is doing. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/healthcare_mccain_style.html From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 12 17:13:54 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 12 17:15:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Healthcare, McCain Style Message-ID: Posted without comment. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/healthcare_mccain_style.html From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 12 17:27:02 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 12 17:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] What was the song the breakfast that you dump in the bay they drink for lunch in San Jose ... Message-ID: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hozicnCmH9ZltqydDTw3ni1dn-TAD934NAL80 AP Enterprise: Drugs affect more drinking water By MARTHA MENDOZA – 1 day ago Testing prompted by an Associated Press story that revealed trace amounts of pharmaceuticals in drinking water supplies has shown that more Americans are affected by the problem than previously thought — at least 46 million. That's up from 41 million people reported by the AP in March as part of an investigation into the presence of pharmaceuticals in the nation's waterways. The AP stories prompted federal and local legislative hearings, brought about calls for mandatory testing and disclosure, and led officials in at least 27 additional metropolitan areas to analyze their drinking water. Positive tests were reported in 17 cases, including Reno, Nev., Savannah, Ga., Colorado Springs, Colo., and Huntsville, Ala. Results are pending in three others. The test results, added to data from communities and water utilities that bowed to pressure to disclose earlier test results, produce the new total of Americans known to be exposed to drug-contaminated drinking water supplies. The overwhelming majority of U.S. cities have not tested drinking water while eight cities — including Boston, Phoenix and Seattle — were relieved that tests showed no detections. "We didn't think we'd find anything because our water comes from a pristine source, but after the AP stories we wanted to make sure and reassure our customers," said Andy Ryan, spokesman for Seattle Public Utilities. The substances detected in the latest tests mirrored those cited in the earlier AP report. Chicago, for example, found a cholesterol medication and a nicotine derivative. Many cities found the anti-convulsant carbamazepine. Officials in one of those communities, Colorado Springs, say they detected five pharmaceuticals in all, including a tranquilizer and a hormone. "This is obviously an emerging issue and after the AP stories came out we felt it was the responsible thing for us to do, as a utility, to find out where we stand. We believe that at these levels, based on current science, that the water is completely safe for our customers," said Colorado Springs spokesman Steve Berry. "We don't want to create unnecessary alarm, but at the same time we have a responsibility as a municipal utility to communicate with our customers and let them know." Fargo's water director, Bruce Grubb, said the concentrations of three drugs detected there were so incredibly minute — parts per trillion — that he sent them to the local health officer to figure out how to interpret the information for the community. "We plan to put this into some kind of context other than just scientific nomenclature, so folks can get some level of understanding about what it means," said Grubb. The drug residues detected in water supplies are generally flushed into sewers and waterways through human excretion. Many of the pharmaceuticals are known to slip through sewage and drinking water treatment plants. While the comprehensive risks are still unclear, researchers are finding evidence that even extremely diluted concentrations of pharmaceutical residues harm fish, frogs and other aquatic species in the wild and impair the workings of human cells in the laboratory. And while the new survey expands the known extent of the problem, the overwhelming majority of U.S. communities have yet to test, including the single largest water provider in the country, New York City's Department of Environmental Protection, which delivers water to 9 million people. In April, New York City council members insisted during an emergency hearing that their drinking water be tested. But DEP officials subsequently declared that "the testing of finished tap water is not warranted at this time." From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 18:48:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Sep 12 18:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Oh dear... Message-ID: http://www.adn.com/palin/story/524038.html The abuse of power investigation against Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice presidential candidate, took a potentially ominous turn for her party today when state lawmakers voted to subpoena her husband. Palin, cast at last week's Republican National Convention as a supportive husband, oil rig worker and championship snowmachine racer, has emerged in the days since as also a powerful figure in his wife's administration. Despite holding no government position, he attends official meetings and is copied on e-mails concerning state business. While Todd Palin's role in the dismissal of Monegan is unknown, the request for a subpoena suggests he spurned earlier calls to testify voluntarily. From avoozl at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 19:54:16 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Fri Sep 12 19:55:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Joe Gill References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1792C6B91C9sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > Granted, but the Republicans have certainly made a right mess, from my > point of view anyway. Now you see Chris you're a mostly reasonable, > willing > to discuss issues type of person whereas I think you may acknowledge that > Joe Gill is not. Ah, well. I *try* to be reasonable at least. I don't always succeed however.. lol I think Joe just has an equally strong opposing force viewpoint to the typical poster here. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 22:49:23 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 12 22:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi, see Spa? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B179278DA54Asylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > They just 'clarified' the position today at the request of the drivers. > They now say that you have to wait until AFTER the next corner before > attempting to pass. Question is, have they just made that a new rule or > was > it already in the rules. If it's new then they surely can't penalise > Hamilton for it. Bernie's still in charge, eh? And the original ruling makes the title fight closer, righto? And you expect them to exonerate Hamilton, LOL? From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 12 22:53:29 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 12 22:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: WTF? and Obama's camp is not doing anything with the info? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gaem1i$fqb$2@news.spamcop.net... > HEALTHCARE, McCAIN STYLE....Joe Klein wants to get out of the gutter and > talk about the issues: > > Today's issue: health insurance. John McCain wants to tax your > employer-provided health care benefits. He wants to replace those benefits > with an insufficient tax credit - $2500 for individuals and $5000 for > families (the average cost per family for health insurance is $12000).> > http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/healthcare_mccain_style.html > > Jesus H.....that's abominable....despicable....way to gut the middle class, McCain. Asshat. My opinion of him just changed drastically, to the bad side. From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 13 05:23:35 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 13 05:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Funny Palin, McCain, Bush pic References: <30a3b2e0-3c38-4aea-a230-b22dac74a52e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >From another ng. Too close to the truth to be funny,. | Did I say funny? | | http://apina.biz/9489.gif | From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 13 08:45:11 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 13 08:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Someone please explain to me Message-ID: what's the attraction here ? I don't get it....... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1054873/Ravaged-Amy-Winehouse-gives-best-snarl-eve-25th-birthday.html From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 13 09:28:14 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 13 09:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Someone please explain to me References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gagckn$pjs$1@news.spamcop.net... | what's the attraction here ? I don't get it....... | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1054873/Ravaged-Amy-Winehouse-gives-best-snarl-eve-25th-birthday.html "Ridden hard and put away wet" and "double coyote ugly" comes to mind. From dfmanno at mail.com Sat Sep 13 13:15:38 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Sat Sep 13 13:20:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: WTF? and Obama's camp is not doing anything with the info? References: Message-ID: In article , "Frog Prince" wrote: > HEALTHCARE, McCAIN STYLE....Joe Klein wants to get out of the gutter and > talk about the issues: > > Today's issue: health insurance. John McCain wants to tax your > employer-provided health care benefits. He wants to replace those benefits > with an insufficient tax credit — $2500 for individuals and $5000 for > families (the average cost per family for health insurance is $12000). > > ....It is amazing to me that Obama campaign has let things go this far > without pointing out that McCain — who opposes the energy bill because it > would increase taxes on oil companies — is actually proposing a tax increase > on health care benefits for American workers. But that is precisely what the > Senator from Arizona is doing. > > > http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/healthcare_mccain_style.html Obama mentions it in his stump speech, but the campaign should be running ads on it. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 13 18:14:15 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 13 18:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: WTF? and Obama's camp is not doing anything with the info? References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-76ECD9.13153813092008@news.cesmail.net... | In article , | "Frog Prince" wrote: | | > HEALTHCARE, McCAIN STYLE....Joe Klein wants to get out of the gutter and | > talk about the issues: | > | > Today's issue: health insurance. John McCain wants to tax your | > employer-provided health care benefits. He wants to replace those benefits | > with an insufficient tax credit — $2500 for individuals and $5000 for | > families (the average cost per family for health insurance is $12000). | > | > ....It is amazing to me that Obama campaign has let things go this far | > without pointing out that McCain — who opposes the energy bill because it | > would increase taxes on oil companies — is actually proposing a tax increase | > on health care benefits for American workers. But that is precisely what the | > Senator from Arizona is doing. | > | > | > http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/healthcare_mccain_style.html | | Obama mentions it in his stump speech, but the campaign should be | running ads on it. | Perhaps they are holding the info for a blind side closer to judgment day? From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 13 20:29:46 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 13 20:40:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Pigs in drag Message-ID: http://cagle.com/news/LipstickPig/ From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 13 20:36:34 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 13 20:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Greenspam on McCains tax cuts Message-ID: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26689925/ From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 13 22:25:09 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 13 22:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Sarah Palin's Wasilla Emails: Did She Violate State Law? References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gaem1g$fqb$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Sarah Palin's Wasilla Emails: Did She Violate State Law? What's even better is what's come out on the front page of the NYT - that it was deliberately done to avoid subpoenas http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1221343324-tGxa66AkDRYq1tsNYpjoIw&pagewanted=all Yet recent controversy has marred Ms. Palin’s reform credentials. In addition to the trooper investigation, lawmakers in April accused her of improperly culling thousands of e-mail addresses from a state database for a mass mailing to rally support for a policy initiative. While Ms. Palin took office promising a more open government, her administration has battled to keep information secret. Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a BlackBerry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.” Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. A campaign spokesman said the governor copied e-mail messages to her state account “when there was significant state business.” On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.” Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!” From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 13 22:49:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 13 22:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Mainstream media is finally catching up Message-ID: about time http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/12/opinion/main4446064.shtml Lipstick On A Wing Nut Count me as a feminist who never believed that being PTA president meant you could be, well, President. The more time we spend on dippy ruminations - How does she do it? Queen Bee on steroids or the hockey mom next door? How hot is Todd, anyway? - the less focus there will be on the kind of queries that should come first with any vice presidential candidate, and certainly would if Palin were a man. Questions like: -Suppose your 14-year-old daughter Willow is brutally raped in her bedroom by an intruder. She becomes pregnant and wants an abortion. Could you tell the parents of America why you think your child and their children should be forced by law to have their rapists' babies? -You say you don't believe global warming is man-made. Could you tell us what scientists you've spoken with or read who have led you to that conclusion? What do you think the 2,500 scientists of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are getting wrong? -If you didn't try to fire Wasilla librarian Mary Ellen Baker over her refusal to consider censoring books, why did you try to fire her? -What is the European Union, and how does it function? -Forty-seven million Americans lack health insurance. John Goodman, who has advised McCain on healthcare, has proposed redefining them as covered because, he says, anyone can get care at an ER. Do you agree with him? -What is the function of the Federal Reserve? [my favorite, LOL] -Cindy and John McCain say you have experience in foreign affairs because Alaska is next to Russia. When did you last speak with Prime Minister Putin, and what did you talk about? From jwjr at poSPAMSUCKSbox.com Sun Sep 14 06:53:17 2008 From: jwjr at poSPAMSUCKSbox.com (J. Weaver Jr.) Date: Sun Sep 14 06:55:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Someone please explain to me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Ridden hard and put away wet" and "double coyote ugly" comes to mind. "Keith Richards" comes to mind... -JW From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 14 11:33:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 14 11:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Someone please explain to me References: Message-ID: "J. Weaver Jr." wrote in message news:gaiqeu$t60$1@news.spamcop.net... > Frog Prince wrote: > >> "Ridden hard and put away wet" and "double coyote ugly" comes to mind. > > "Keith Richards" comes to mind... -JW I comparison, Keith Richards is 'cute'......LOL From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 14 11:40:57 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 14 11:45:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Tina Fey on SNL Message-ID: absolutely priceless....it was on You Tube but NBC have pulled it claiming copyright infringement . Too bad, they should have left it there. Huffpo has it though" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/13/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-o_n_126249.html From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 14 13:48:14 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 14 15:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Evidence of Zero Moral Character References: <1706ab54-a359-460e-a8b0-4d4aa811a6ec@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk&eurl=http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/ http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/us/politics/13mccain.html?bl&ex=1221451200&en=46ea589c255511cb&ei=5087%0A From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 14 13:54:16 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 14 15:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: This is the same sh|t the bunch in the White House has been doing for eight years! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 14 21:03:43 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Sun Sep 14 21:05:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Ike's come and gone Message-ID: Interesting couple of days, Ike's come and gone, and I have power since a few hours ago. Water pressure is still low, but we're doing fine. Sadly many others aren't. We had a showers in the rain this morning, (before light, in the backyard) forgot how soft rainwater is. Spent the day yesterday raking up tree debris, and we've got quite a pile of compostable material at the kerb. For us at least, this has been the least inconvenient major storm so far. The big problem? Ice, Ice, couldn't find any but 2 bags tuesday evening, and the storm didn't arrive til Friday night. Tuesday is too soon, seems store owners, vendors and emergency people don't ever get it with ice. It's no use selling it a week before, (it melts even in good coolers) and no use a week later (foods all spoilt by then). BTW it was $7.99 a bag when I bough it at Kroger. Seems a bit rich to me, but I don't often buy it, maybe that's not a gouged price. I paid $1.99 a bag, camping on the Sunshine Coast 2 weeks back. (SW British Columbia) From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 14 21:24:05 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 14 21:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Ike's come and gone References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gakc9f$7ec$1@news.spamcop.net... | Interesting couple of days, | | Ike's come and gone, and I have power since a few hours ago. Water pressure | is still low, but we're doing fine. Sadly many others aren't. We had a | showers in the rain this morning, (before light, in the backyard) forgot how | soft rainwater is. Spent the day yesterday raking up tree debris, and we've | got quite a pile of compostable material at the kerb. | | For us at least, this has been the least inconvenient major storm so far. | The big problem? Ice, Ice, couldn't find any but 2 bags Tuesday evening, and | the storm didn't arrive til Friday night. Tuesday is too soon, seems store | owners, vendors and emergency people don't ever get it with ice. It's no use | selling it a week before, (it melts even in good coolers) and no use a week | later (foods all spoilt by then). BTW it was $7.99 a bag when I bough it at | Kroger. Seems a bit rich to me, but I don't often buy it, maybe that's not a | gouged price. I paid $1.99 a bag, camping on the Sunshine Coast 2 weeks | back. (SW British Columbia) | Try storing the ice in the freezer as long as power is up it good to go. If you have one of those big coolers put the ice inside and add a pound or so of dry ice. DI will go away in a day or so maybe longer but the ice will be rock hard until it does. As an added benefit cover the cooler with blankets or even newspaper which will cut the heat gain. In NOLA we have gen sets but also wind gen and solar charging to a set of BIG golf cart batteries that run a set of inverters. Single charge will run a fridge & freezer for several days. In a HC there is ALWAYS enough wind to keep the battery up. . From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 14 23:18:14 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 14 23:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Evidence of Zero Moral Character References: <1706ab54-a359-460e-a8b0-4d4aa811a6ec@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gajon2$6go$1@news.spamcop.net... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk&eurl=http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/ > > http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/us/politics/13mccain.html?bl&ex=1221451200&en=46ea589c255511cb&ei=5087%0A > One more...bwah! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-seitzman/sarah-palin-the-beauty-qu_b_126244.html From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 14:44:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 14:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi, see Spa? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1A71FBD88C4sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > > He'd have won Monza if not for bad luck with the weather. He was head and > shoulders above everyone else in that rain. Yeah, seems the F1 weather forecasters aren't any better than those talking heads on the local news ;-) McLaren blew the call by sending him back out on full wets. I agree he would have won going away if he'd have gotten intermediates instead. Still, it was great to see the beaten down Torro Rosso team actually win their first race, especially with the youngest driver ever to win an F1 race. He did very well for himself, I was impressed. What's the gap in points between the top 3 now? BTW, did you hear them talk about the change in rules due to the brouhaha over Hamilton's move in the last race? They clarified the "grey area" by saying you couldn't make a pass until after the next corner. Seems like a reasonable solution to me, and the fact that they still haven't made a ruling about his punishment means things might change to be more in his favor, IMO. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 15:00:10 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 15:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1A703934B1Asylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > http://www.ratusratus.com/hydrogenpump.jpg Do you know what brand gas station that is? I've been watching the stock of Clean Energy Fuels Corp. (CLNE) lately, they are involved in commercial LNG fueling stations and alternative energy research. If Oboma wins, CLNE could go up real big. However, with the astonishing news today that Merrill Lynch is being bought out by Bank of America and Lehman Bros. filed for bankruptcy this morning, now's not the time to be monkeying around in the stock market! Thank god I got out of all my mutual funds in my 401k, one of them was managed by a subsidiary of Lehman (yeah, they say don't worry, blah blah, but still....) On the bright side, oil dropped to $94 today! On the bad side, I heard over the weekend that gasoline prices in Tennessee were $5.99/gal !! WTF? They're down around $3.50ish here now for 87 octane, although now there is a 17 cent gap in price between 89 octance and 92 octane gas, instead of the usual 5 cent difference, probably because of all the refineries that got shut down in the Houston area. Don't be surprised to see the price of gas surge in the next few weeks as supplies shrink while we wait for them to come back online. They're responsible for 25% of the nation's gasoline production. To add one more topic for discussion, I cannot believe that a Cat 2 hurricane literally blew the roof off on Houston's brand new Reliant football stadium. Surely the engineers should have designed it to meet at Cat 4, at minimum, given the hurricane history of the Houston area? If they didn't, just to save money, well that was penny-wise and pound-foolish of them, proven to be a bad decision in just one year! Wonder how FP and his kin are doing....lousy timing for him.... From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 15:05:30 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 15:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? In-Reply-To: References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gajon5$6go$2@news.spamcop.net... > This is the same sh|t the bunch in the White House has been doing for > eight > years! > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html > > > Came up blank page for me. How'd you and your kin make out from Ike? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 18:50:15 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 18:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Oh.....My......God...... Message-ID: I think we just set a modern time record for the one day drop in the Dow Jones Index -- it crashed over 500 points today on the stunningly terrible banking news and HP's announcement to slash jobs by 25,000 :-(( Don't look at your retirement accounts unless you have a defibrillator on hand......and remember, I warned y'all to get out of mutual funds and into a money market fund well over a month ago, the DJI is down a whopping 865 points since August 11th. Today's close is the lowest it's been since October of 2004! This is sickening to watch, and it makes me mad as hell.....those damn greedy mortgage lenders have totally destroyed our economy, the financial system, and ruined the lives of millions upon millions of people.....they make those Enron guys look like angels in comparison....unfortunately they don't appear to have acted criminally, except for criminally stupid, so there won't be any hides to skin in retribution. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 19:35:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 19:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Dammitalltohell! Message-ID: I finally got around to replacing my icemaker today, it had been leaking water into the ice cube box for about 6 months now, making me have to pull the ice box out of the freezer every couple days to remove the big stalagmite chunk of ice that built up at the back of the ice box (if I forgot to do it, it would start forming stalactites as the excess water spilled over the sides of the ice box). I patiently waited for it to go thru it's first icemaking cycle, and just checked it to see if the leak was gone. NOPE!!! If anything, it was even worse! I think the control knob that sets the size of the ice cubes is way out of whack, there's ice up high on the inside of the icemaker that shouldn't be there -- like it's overfilling the ice cube tray. I leveled the bastard as well as I could, but it's STILL leaking at the far end, just like the old one, but now it's worse than ever. I wonder if all along the whole problem was that the cube size control on the old icemaker was also out of whack, causing it to overfill too. But it was old and sagging, and quite disgusting to look at when I pulled it out -- lots of hard water build up crap all over the place. But it still worked. I think I just threw $100 down the drain for nothing, money I don't have to spare. And I'm just guessing on the cause of the leak/overflow, I could be wrong, then what? I can't sit in front of the fridge for hours waiting for the refill cycle to occur so I can "catch it in the act" and see what's happening. Maybe if I'm lucky Ill hear the new cubes drop into the ice box while watching TV (if the mechanism is strong enough to dump them given the extra ice build up inside the icemaker that may be frozen to the cubes) and run into the kitchen to watch the refill to see what happens....dunno what else to do at this point. The cube size control axle doesn't seem to have an "end point". With the knob off, I used a screw driver to turn it all the way left and all the way right to see where the stops where, and the weren't any -- they're on the control knob, not on the drive gear. When is life going to give me a frigging break, fer crying out loud? Had a really bad health week too, late today my energy levels finally got high enough for me to do laundry and install the new icemaker. Cutting the grass Saturday in a relatively cool 85 F heat just killed me, or more likely just finished off the job that too much activity earlier in the week had started. I actually "worked" over 8 hours on Wednesday, one of the systems I helped design and build for Hubble crashed and had to be restarted, so me and the other "expert" had to be there to make sure everything went ok. Didn't get home til 9:30 that night, it was a long day and a lot of mental strain. I'm not used to having to concentrate and think for that many consecutive hours, it was really draining. But good to get back in the saddle, as it were, for a least a day, to see where I'm at....but not a good result, as it turned out :-( From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 19:49:24 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 19:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:v8ltfuv02-53DEC1.16205515092008@killface.local... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> This is sickening to watch > > Why do you think we told you not to watch it so closely... If these > kind of short term losses bother you, you are too risk averse for > investment. Nah, I'm trying to take advantage of these conditions to buy some great stocks on the cheap. Just because I made one mistake recently (that I strongly believe will turn out well in the end) I'm not going to stop trying to make money. I have all the time in the world to research stocks and funds, something most people don't have. That's why I recommended folks to get into a MMF until the craziness passed. The "sickening feeling" is based more on how a few greedy companies have destroyed the economic foundation of our country more that my paper losses. Except for a couple long ago investing mistakes, I strongly believe in everything else I currently own, so I'm not about to panic and sell at a huge loss for a company with strong fundamentals that's struggling right now. EVERY company is struggling under the current economic conditions. The problem the mutual funds have is that LOTS of people panic and demand their money back since they can't stand to see their investments drop so sharply so quickly. That means the funds have to raise money by selling assets that they are also likely in the red on, and that's a permanent loss (not paper) on the fund's net asset value. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 20:02:48 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 20:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gamrjh$b0u$1@news.spamcop.net... > And I'm just guessing on the cause of the leak/overflow, I could be wrong, > then what? I may have gotten a lucky break -- right after I posted that message I went to check the icemaker status, and it appears that by cranking down on the cube size knob I may have fixed the problem. I stuck my finger in the tray, felt a little bit of excess water, so I turned it down even more. But I didn't feel any liquid water in the ice bin, and luckily the cycle had just restarted (the water in the cube trays was warm). Keeping my fingers crossed......funny how such a seemingly trivial thing can cause such a big problem! I while ago I tried to fix the icemaker in a friend's almost new fridge, got it working twice but it eventually jammed up again. Those things are a PITA! But invaluable, at least to me.....filling one icebag to ease the pain in my lower back or knee consumes almost 1/3 of the contents of the ice cub box. If I had the old manual ice cube trays I'd use up all the available ice just filling up one icebag, so I can't live without an icemaker! From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 20:31:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 20:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1AB0E128B4Asylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Indigo" wrote in > news:gambbq$m5u$1@news.spamcop.net: > > It's totally insane, surely the constructor should have to answer for > that. > >> >> Wonder how FP and his kin are doing....lousy timing for him.... > > Well he was ok on Sunday so I'm guessing he's fine. But he's not down on > the coast is he? > From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 20:33:33 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 20:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B1AB0E128B4Asylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... >> To add one more topic for discussion, I cannot believe that a Cat 2 >> hurricane literally blew the roof off on Houston's brand new Reliant >> football stadium. Surely the engineers should have designed it to meet >> at Cat 4, at minimum, given the hurricane history of the Houston area? >> If they didn't, just to save money, well that was penny-wise and >> pound-foolish of them, proven to be a bad decision in just one year! > > It's totally insane, surely the constructor should have to answer for > that. > Haven't read anything about the design specs, at least not on the sports pages. >> >> Wonder how FP and his kin are doing....lousy timing for him.... > > Well he was ok on Sunday so I'm guessing he's fine. But he's not down on > the coast is he? > Yeah, he posted yesterday, so I guess all is well. I don't recall where he relocated to, maybe it was the Dallas-Ft Worth area and not Houston? From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 15 21:20:45 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 15 21:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi References: Message-ID: "Indigo" | Wonder how FP and his kin are doing....lousy timing for him.... Not bad, folk in NOLA are fine still fighting the bureaucrats. Our property in NOLA was high and dry and had gen sets and several people on site ... armed. Zero incidents near our stuff but some looting/break ins several blocks over. Property in MS that is still flat from Katrina. Folk in Houston ... are in Turkey. No reports on their property but all are far north west Houston so only real potential problems are wind and waaaaaay too much rain. Folk in Dallas -- grand kids are disappointed -- all wound up to see a hurricane and ... nothing ... hardly a big wind and not much rain. Lights did not so much as flicker. Kids did get to play with the flash lights we got'um. Friends in Homa are basically wiped out but did manage to get everything movable out of Dodge (nice to have friends and family with a fleet of 18 wheelers and trailers) Friends and family in Galveston sold and moved out several years back. Interesting aside we have gas and at fairly reasonable prices. ($3.42 ULR) Folk back in NC over $5 per gal WHEN they can find it. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 21:43:21 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 15 21:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gamor6$3r6$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Don't look at your retirement accounts unless you have a defibrillator on > hand......and remember, I warned y'all to get out of mutual funds and into > a money market fund well over a month ago, the DJI is down a whopping 865 > points since August 11th. Today's close is the lowest it's been since > October of 2004! My 401k from my old job lost 10K since May.......I probably should have rolled it over to an IRA long ago. Wahh. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 21:49:12 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 15 21:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: hey indi References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gan1n0$t80$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Indigo" > Interesting aside we have gas and at fairly reasonable prices. ($3.42 ULR) > Folk back in NC over $5 per gal WHEN they can find it. My friend near Greenville Spartanburg told me there was NO gas there this weekend. So I immediately got dressed and went out to buy gas - we have some but it went up .9 overnight. Supposedly we're not affected by the hurricane because our gas comes from somewhere other than the gulf - doesn't stop the gouging though. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 21:50:48 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 15 21:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gamt37$hvq$1@news.spamcop.net... > But invaluable, at least to me.....filling one icebag to ease > the pain in my lower back or knee consumes almost 1/3 of the contents of > the ice cub box. If I had the old manual ice cube trays I'd use up all the > available ice just filling up one icebag, so I can't live without an > icemaker! You know, they have these things called "cold paks", no ice required, just keep them in the freezer. I had three or four that I rotated after my knee surgeries, worked like a charm. And then there's frozen peas, which are the bomb for a flexible ice pack... From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 15 22:20:09 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 15 22:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > I finally got around to replacing my icemaker today, it had been leaking > water into the ice cube box for about 6 months now, making me have to > pull the ice box out of the freezer every couple days to remove the big > stalagmite chunk of ice that built up at the back of the ice box (if I > forgot to do it, it would start forming stalactites as the excess water > spilled over the sides of the ice box). I patiently waited for it to go > thru it's first icemaking cycle, and just checked it to see if the leak > was gone. NOPE!!! If anything, it was even worse! - what does 'replacing my icemaker' mean? - how was the diagnosis of what needed to be done to correct the abnormal behavior of the old icemaker made? - re #2 above, by whom? - did that include replacing the icemaker? anything else? That is, sometimes we want to tell a repair person for car or refrigerator what must be wrong and what we want done (like some people give a doctor/practitioner a diagnosis/opinion and a set of instructions/request as to what should/wants be done) -- whereas OTOH, if we are dealing with a person/ diagnostician/ repairperson/ who is more experienced/ trained/ competent/ at the field of expertise than ourselves -- we should in fact be saying... Hey, here's what is happening with my fridge/whatever. What's up with that? What do we/I/you need to do to make it right? How much is that going to cost? What are the chances you are wrong/ that won't work/ something else bad will happen? Then the expert tells us what s/he thinks is wrong and what s/he thinks we/you/I/she should do to fix it and then you say OK go for it or "What about this?" and then s/he does it and then when it doesn't work you can say -- Hey! What's up? -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 22:22:02 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 22:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gan3do$34o$1@news.spamcop.net... > > You know, they have these things called "cold paks", no ice required, > just keep them in the freezer. I had three or four that I rotated after my > knee surgeries, worked like a charm. And then there's frozen peas, which > are the bomb for a flexible ice pack... > I have two of them, different sizes and different "effective length" times. They're often too cold to use without a towel in between them and my body, which renders them less effective. I've actually gotten frostbite from one of them a few times when I forgot to use a towel. Ice is a much safer alternative and lasts a lot longer. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 15 22:26:26 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 15 22:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gan53q$8pc$1@news.spamcop.net... > > - what does 'replacing my icemaker' mean? > - how was the diagnosis of what needed to be done to correct the abnormal > behavior of the old icemaker made? > - re #2 above, by whom? > - did that include replacing the icemaker? anything else? Well, of course, me being me, I made all the decisions on my own ;-) Replacing the icemaker means pulling out the mechanical device that turns water into ice cubes, which are ejected into the ice cube box. Since the old icemaker worked fine for many years before it started "leaking", I just assumed some seal had broken or worn out and the unit needed replaced. The fridge is 15 years old, after all! From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 15 22:49:29 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 15 22:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > "Mike Easter" >> - how was the diagnosis of what needed to be done to correct the >> abnormal behavior of the old icemaker made? > Well, of course, me being me, I made all the decisions on my own ;-) So, now that we have a spare part (icemaker) to experiment with... ... if we replace/restore the old icemaker and set the water level optimally and compare it to the function of the new icemaker with the water level set suboptimally/excessive -- how do the two results compare? -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 03:41:19 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Tue Sep 16 03:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > I think we just set a modern time record for the one day drop in the Dow > Jones Index -- it crashed over 500 points today on the stunningly > terrible banking news and HP's announcement to slash jobs by 25,000 :-(( > > Don't look at your retirement accounts unless you have a defibrillator > on hand...... Do you need to access that money in the next year (or maybe 5 years)? If not, just leave it alone. The market has always come back from even its steepest slides, and trying to time the swings will probably end up costing you more money than just sitting it out. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 08:53:34 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 08:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] .10 since Sunday Message-ID: gas prices have gone up TEN CENTS since I filled up on Sunday, after an .8 leap two days before......and there's supposedly no shortage here....... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 11:44:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 11:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gan589$97e$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I have two of them, different sizes and different "effective length" > times. They're often too cold to use without a towel in between them and > my body, which renders them less effective. I've actually gotten frostbite > from one of them a few times when I forgot to use a towel. Ice is a much > safer alternative and lasts a lot longer. If its too cold to use without a towel, then use a towel, or something thinner like a pillowcase, the cold will penetrate. You're not supposed to ice anything for longer than 20-30 minutes anyway, after that you shut down the circulation and maybe cause permanent damage from frostbite..hello! If you're getting frostbite, you're doing it wrong...... From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 16 13:09:42 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "Frog Prince" wrote: > > > This is the same sh|t the bunch in the White House has been doing for > > eight years! > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html > > Came up blank page for me. You're probably not registered with the site. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 13:21:05 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gaoa8f$2u7$1@news.spamcop.net... > gas prices have gone up TEN CENTS since I filled up on Sunday, after an .8 > leap two days before......and there's supposedly no shortage here....... > Well My sister told me that in Toronto prices spiked $0.22 per litre, that's about $0.70/US Gal. over the weekend because of "refinery problems" in Houston. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 13:41:57 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] First visual evidence of another planet circling a star found! Message-ID: Astronomers have unveiled what is likely the first picture of a planet around a normal star similar to the Sun. Three University of Toronto scientists used the Gemini North telescope on Mauna Kea in Hawai'i to take images of the young star 1RXS J160929.1-210524 (which lies about 500 light-years from Earth) and a candidate companion of that star. They also obtained spectra to confirm the nature of the companion, which has a mass about eight times that of Jupiter, and lies roughly 330 times the Earth-Sun distance away from its star. (For comparison, the most distant planet in our solar system, Neptune, orbits the Sun at only about 30 times the Earth-Sun distance.) The parent star is similar in mass to the Sun, but is much younger. http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0809/15planet/ From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 13:53:12 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gan6qq$chn$1@news.spamcop.net... > > So, now that we have a spare part (icemaker) to experiment with... > > ... if we replace/restore the old icemaker and set the water level > optimally and compare it to the function of the new icemaker with the > water level set suboptimally/excessive -- how do the two results compare? We'll never know unless this new one quits on me. Re-adjusting the cube size worked, although I took the adjustment knob off 3 times to crank back on the adjustment gear 3 times it's normal scale/movement (I preferred to get smaller cubes and stop the leak first). I just checked, and I'm getting normal sized cubes now and no leaks. Yay! I'm not sure I'd have such good success with the old icemaker, it was leaning off the wall even with the screws fully tight, so it was likely spilling water due to that, plus perhaps the cube size adjustment problem, even though I hadn't touched it in years. And if you saw what it looked like inside you'd not want to re-install it....I suppose and hour or so spent disassembling it and scrubbing with white vinegar and bleach could clean it up, but it ain't worth it now. But it does pose and interesting question for everyone else -- do you have the nerve to remove your icemaker and see what you're putting into your body every day? ;-) I installed a water filter on the icemaker line over a year ago, so I'm assuming all the crud is old stuff, but man was it nasty looking. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 13:53:48 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:55:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Pushpolling....again Message-ID: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/09/15/i-just-got-push-polled-on-obama-and-israel.aspx#comments From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 14:06:27 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 14:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Dammitalltohell! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gaok8q$fs8$1@news.spamcop.net... > If its too cold to use without a towel, then use a towel, or something > thinner like a pillowcase, the cold will penetrate. You're not supposed > to ice anything for longer than 20-30 minutes anyway, after that you shut > down the circulation and maybe cause permanent damage from > frostbite..hello! If you're getting frostbite, you're doing it > wrong...... > Well, you see....it's a royal PITA using a towel/rag whatever between the icepacks and different parts of my body, because the required thickness varies by body part and how swollen/hot the area is.....I can take the smaller one and put in right on my knee without a problem most of the time, but if I put it on directly on my neck I can get frostbite within a few minutes (and have a few times), other times it's fine. If I put a thin towel on it, by the time the cold penetrates the towel the little icepack is all used up. I also have a much bigger icepack with velcro straps and a built-in liner, and that one doesn't get nearly as cold as the little one, so I can use it wherever/whenever. The problem is that when I have multiple aching joints (say my entire back hurts plus my knee is swollen) the phase-change material in the icepacks melts before I get to ice each area for 15-20 minutes. Then I have to go to my icebags, and I can keep refilling them until I'm done icing down. And those icepacks aren't cheap, the bigger one cost over $20, while ice is virtually free (although I did notice on the new icemaker that it's rated for a whopping 185 watts!). From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 14:07:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 14:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? In-Reply-To: References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-3232F2.13094216092008@news.cesmail.net... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: >> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html >> >> Came up blank page for me. > > You're probably not registered with the site. I know I was once, but CookieCleaner must have wiped out my cookie. From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Sep 16 14:07:54 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Sep 16 14:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: First visual evidence of another planet circling a star found! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Astronomers have unveiled what is likely the first picture of a planet > around a normal star similar to the Sun. > > Three University of Toronto scientists used the Gemini North telescope > on Mauna Kea in Hawai'i to take images of the young star 1RXS > J160929.1-210524 (which lies about 500 light-years from Earth) and a > candidate companion of that star. They also obtained spectra to confirm > the nature of the companion, which has a mass about eight times that of > Jupiter, and lies roughly 330 times the Earth-Sun distance away from its > star. (For comparison, the most distant planet in our solar system, > Neptune, orbits the Sun at only about 30 times the Earth-Sun distance.) > The parent star is similar in mass to the Sun, but is much younger. > > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0809/15planet/ Sorry to say, not entirely true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2M1207_b The first extrasolar planet was imaged back in 2003 via infrared. However, this is still pretty cool news. :) I'm waiting for April next year when Kepler will launch. It will have the sensitivity to detect planets Earth-size and smaller around other stars. THAT will be truely historic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler_Mission From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 14:20:55 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 14:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gaopu2$ap1$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Heidi" wrote in message > news:gaoa8f$2u7$1@news.spamcop.net... >> gas prices have gone up TEN CENTS since I filled up on Sunday, after an >> .8 leap two days before......and there's supposedly no shortage >> here....... >> > > Well My sister told me that in Toronto prices spiked $0.22 per litre, > that's about $0.70/US Gal. over the weekend because of "refinery problems" > in Houston. > Y'all *did* see my post that mentioned that those shut down Houston refineries account for 25% of the entire production of gasoline in the country, right? Take that away, and realize that we don't "store" excess gas anymore like we used to, and you're surprised that there's a _real_ shortage? This time they ain't gouging, a scarce resource is worth more in a free market. Look at how much Apple charged for the first Iphones -- did you see anyone bitching about the price? No, they lined up overnight to buy them! After digging deeper into the "instant" gas price increases a while ago, I came to the conclusion that we're really not getting gouged, not directly, at least. The oil companies have gone the way of every other business, going to the "just in time" delivery method. They removed their massive tank farms years ago that used to buffer the sudden increases in crude prices, so now they _are_ affected by short term price changes. Nobody in the crude-to-gas process is making any money except those pumping oil out of the ground -- not the refiners, not the pipelines, not the truck delivery services, and certainly not the gas stations -- all their margins are razor thin, if not negative in the case of convenience stores, who depend on selling you groceries and cigarettes to make money. Yes, you can blame Exxon for sitting on leases and not drilling for more oil while sitting on their big pile of cash, but that's a different issue. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 14:23:00 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 14:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: First visual evidence of another planet circling a star found! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:gaoslk$jne$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> Astronomers have unveiled what is likely the first picture of a planet >> around a normal star similar to the Sun. > > Sorry to say, not entirely true. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2M1207_b > > The first extrasolar planet was imaged back in 2003 via infrared. Sorry to say, but what I wrote *is* true. That new image if the first one in the _visible_ light spectrum :-P From MikeE at ster.invalid Tue Sep 16 14:41:56 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Tue Sep 16 14:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: First visual evidence of another planet circling a star found! References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Astronomers have unveiled what is likely the first picture of a planet > around a normal star similar to the Sun. > > Three University of Toronto scientists used the Gemini North telescope > on Mauna Kea in Hawai'i to take images of the young star 1RXS > J160929.1-210524 (which lies about 500 light-years from Earth) and a > candidate companion of that star. They also obtained spectra to confirm > the nature of the companion, which has a mass about eight times that of > Jupiter, and lies roughly 330 times the Earth-Sun distance away from > its star. (For comparison, the most distant planet in our solar system, > Neptune, orbits the Sun at only about 30 times the Earth-Sun distance.) > The parent star is similar in mass to the Sun, but is much younger. > > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0809/15planet/ This is a different kind of 'planet' than the other 300+ exoplanets in the current exoplanet lineup, and in fact it isn't even certain that this bright object (which is why it is visible) is even orbiting the/its star. "it will take up to two years to verify that the star and its likely planet are moving through space together" "Of course it would be premature to say that the object is definitely orbiting this star ..." -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Sep 16 15:01:18 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Sep 16 15:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: First visual evidence of another planet circling a star found! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "Borgholio" wrote in message > news:gaoslk$jne$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Indigo wrote: >>> Astronomers have unveiled what is likely the first picture of a >>> planet around a normal star similar to the Sun. >> >> Sorry to say, not entirely true. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2M1207_b >> >> The first extrasolar planet was imaged back in 2003 via infrared. > > Sorry to say, but what I wrote *is* true. That new image if the first > one in the _visible_ light spectrum :-P An image is an image. :-P From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 15:48:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Tue Sep 16 15:50:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gaote7$stu$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "bar0" wrote in message > news:gaopu2$ap1$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> "Heidi" wrote in message >> news:gaoa8f$2u7$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> gas prices have gone up TEN CENTS since I filled up on Sunday, after an >>> .8 leap two days before......and there's supposedly no shortage >>> here....... >>> >> >> Well My sister told me that in Toronto prices spiked $0.22 per litre, >> that's about $0.70/US Gal. over the weekend because of "refinery >> problems" in Houston. >> > Y'all *did* see my post that mentioned that those shut down Houston > refineries account for 25% of the entire production of gasoline in the > country, right? Take that away, and realize that we don't "store" excess > gas anymore like we used to, and you're surprised that there's a _real_ > shortage? This time they ain't gouging, a scarce resource is worth more in > a free market. Look at how much Apple charged for the first Iphones -- did > you see anyone bitching about the price? No, they lined up overnight to > buy them! > > After digging deeper into the "instant" gas price increases a while ago, I > came to the conclusion that we're really not getting gouged, not directly, > at least. The oil companies have gone the way of every other business, > going to the "just in time" delivery method. They removed their massive > tank farms years ago that used to buffer the sudden increases in crude > prices, so now they _are_ affected by short term price changes. Nobody in > the crude-to-gas process is making any money except those pumping oil out > of the ground -- not the refiners, not the pipelines, not the truck > delivery services, and certainly not the gas stations -- all their margins > are razor thin, if not negative in the case of convenience stores, who > depend on selling you groceries and cigarettes to make money. Yes, you can > blame Exxon for sitting on leases and not drilling for more oil while > sitting on their big pile of cash, but that's a different issue. Yabbut:: 1) Toronto gasoline is not refined in Houston. 2) The biggest price hike I've heard of in the US was about the same as that, but per gallon. 3) None of the refiners were atually shut down, they went to precautionary standby, now over, and there are some problems at the delivery terminals, but they are almost all sorted now. One lesson to be learned is that a "just in time" world is not necessarily desirable. Some capacitors and coils are a vital part of a resilient economy. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 16:03:34 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 16:05:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gaote7$stu$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Y'all *did* see my post that mentioned that those shut down Houston > refineries account for 25% of the entire production of gasoline in the > country, right? Depends on who you ask: http://www.whnt.com/Global/story.asp?S=9001076 "The Gulf Coast is home to about a fifth of the nation's refinery capacity, and most of them have halted operations because of Hurricane Ike. Take that away, and realize that we don't "store" excess gas > anymore like we used to, and you're surprised that there's a _real_ > shortage? The CEO of Exxon was on the Today show stating that they stored gasoline well away from the gulf before Ike in anticipation of outages so that there would be no shortages. So why are there shortages? I refuse to believe that what gets refined today gets to my gas station by tomorrow - there must be gas stored somewhere - don't we have strategic reserves? > After digging deeper into the "instant" gas price increases a while ago, I > came to the conclusion that we're really not getting gouged, not directly, > at least. The oil companies have gone the way of every other business, > going to the "just in time" delivery method. They removed their massive > tank farms years ago that used to buffer the sudden increases in crude > prices, so now they _are_ affected by short term price changes. Nobody in > the crude-to-gas process is making any money except those pumping oil out > of the ground -- not the refiners, not the pipelines, not the truck > delivery services, and certainly not the gas stations -- all their margins > are razor thin, if not negative in the case of convenience stores, who > depend on selling you groceries and cigarettes to make money. Yes, you can > blame Exxon for sitting on leases and not drilling for more oil while > sitting on their big pile of cash, but that's a different issue. The refiners are deliberately producing well below capacity in an effort to keep demand high and prices high, and the fact that they are controlled by the big oil companies, they can, and do, manipulate production to manipulate prices. The gas stations are taking it up the butt, they're making nothing. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 16:51:14 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 16:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] McCain gets interrupted by Rick Astley Message-ID: This is the second video I've seen where Rick Astley returns....no idea why, but it's funny as hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 17:42:08 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 17:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Republicans Are Morons" wrote in message news:gannvv$duc$1@news.spamcop.net... > Do you need to access that money in the next year (or maybe 5 years)? No, not most of it anyway. Have (or should I say *had*) quite a bit in my "new house" investment account, but I haven't done any trading in that account for quite a while. Most of what I own in there has been underwater for many months, but I still like the companies so I'm not selling for a loss. I only own one mutual fund in that account, all the rest are stocks, and they'll come back eventually, their fundamental values are still good. I wish I had some cash right now to invest actually, one of those stocks is currently selling at a truly ludicrous P/E of 2.3! >If not, just leave it alone. The market has always come back from even its >steepest slides, and trying to time the swings will probably end up costing >you more money than just sitting it out. I agree that trying to time the market as an investment strategy is likely to lead to disaster, but everyone saw this current financial crisis coming, it was NOT the time to keep your money in mutual funds. Buy and hold doesn't work right now, we're in a special environment that conservative investors have recognized and gone to all cash. Those that are still regularly contributing to their retirement accounts are able to dollar cost average, lowering their basis, but the enormous _realized_ principal losses in mutual funds can't be ignored. They have to sell assets at a loss to re-imburse clients who want their money back, and that's a real loss for the fund, not a paper one. Like I said, I put all my 401k money into cash in June, and I can't contribute since I'm not working, so I couldn't dollar cost average even if I wanted to do it. I would have lost 25% of my money (on paper) if I would have stayed in the funds I owned at the time. When this crisis passes, I'll still have all the money I had in June, even more, since the MMF is paying out a 4% yield with monthly dividends. I can then buy beaten down stocks and funds at lows not seen in years and ride them back to where they belong, price-wise. Compared to someone who had the same amount of money and stayed invested, I'll have beaten the pants off of them when you look at the two account balances in 5 years -- and it may take 5 years for them to just get back to where they started. Probably will take that long, given that the market historically returns about 7-8% per year (except for times like this meltdown and the dot com bubble burst, for instance). And that 7-8% number is only valid if you look at a grand scale of 20 years or more, it hasn't come anywhere close to that in the last decade. Of course, the horse has bolted from the barn now, if you didn't get out in time you have no choice but to stay invested in whatever you own. Of course all of this is just my opinion (and plenty of others agree with me if you read the Yahoo financial messageboards), but in my mind special circumstances called for special actions. I was just trying to help others here when I gave that advice to bail out. To each his own. I'm quite happy with my decisions. P.S. I was wrong about how bad yesterday's market collapse was -- it was the worst single day in the last 7 years, not the last 4. From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 16 17:47:38 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 16 17:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" | > | Y'all *did* see my post that mentioned that those shut down Houston | refineries account for 25% of the entire production of gasoline in the | country, right? Take that away, and realize that we don't "store" excess gas | anymore like we used to, and you're surprised that there's a _real_ | shortage? This time they ain't gouging, a scarce resource is worth more in a | free market. Look at how much Apple charged for the first Iphones -- did you | see anyone bitching about the price? No, they lined up overnight to buy | them! | | After digging deeper into the "instant" gas price increases a while ago, I | came to the conclusion that we're really not getting gouged, not directly, | at least. The oil companies have gone the way of every other business, going | to the "just in time" delivery method. They removed their massive tank farms | years ago that used to buffer the sudden increases in crude prices, so now | they _are_ affected by short term price changes. Nobody in the crude-to-gas | process is making any money except those pumping oil out of the ground -- | not the refiners, not the pipelines, not the truck delivery services, and | certainly not the gas stations -- all their margins are razor thin, if not | negative in the case of convenience stores, who depend on selling you | groceries and cigarettes to make money. Yes, you can blame Exxon for sitting | on leases and not drilling for more oil while sitting on their big pile of | cash, but that's a different issue. Long time back I was deep in the oil patch. 'all their margins are razor thin' is what they want you to believe. That's not conspiracy speaking but direct on the ground observations. I doubt it's the same as the 70s (back then they did not any anymore places to store the fuel) but I can assure you without much fear of contradiction the oil companies are in tight control. But I find it very interesting that the refineries do what are called 'turn a rounds' at the most convenient times to product the maximum price. As to the up charge on the iPhone. Nobody needed an iPhone to get to work or to the doc etc. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 17:48:32 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 17:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gap2j3$msn$1@news.spamcop.net... > > One lesson to be learned is that a "just in time" world is not necessarily > desirable. Some capacitors and coils are a vital part of a resilient > economy. I won't argue with that one bit. Look how badly it hurt GM this summer when one of their suppliers went on strike. Most companies now only keep a few days worth of inventory on their shelves, which kills them when the supply train is interrupted. Just think of all the times you've gone to the grocery store and discovered that a product you really needed is sold out. You don't go without, you go to another store to get it. That's a loss of sales for the store that kept inventory levels too low. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 18:00:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 18:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gap3eo$rla$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gaote7$stu$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Take that away, and realize that we don't "store" excess gas >> anymore like we used to, and you're surprised that there's a _real_ >> shortage? > > The CEO of Exxon was on the Today show stating that they stored gasoline > well away from the gulf before Ike in anticipation of outages so that > there would be no shortages. So why are there shortages? I refuse to > believe that what gets refined today gets to my gas station by tomorrow - > there must be gas stored somewhere - don't we have strategic reserves? Strategic reserves of gasoline? No, we don't and it's probably a good idea not to have one. Can you imagine a more tempting target for a terrorist than billions of gallons of highly flammable gasoline? The government stores crude oil (the strategic reserve), and the NG producers store natural gas in salt mines and other types of massive underground facilities. I think that Enron CEO was lying out his ass to try to appease the viewing audience. Like I said, privately owned mass storage facilities for gasoline and crude oil were torn down years ago. He may have meant that they stored enough gas elsewhere to ensure that there wouldn't be gas shortages in the Houston area? > > > The refiners are deliberately producing well below capacity in an effort > to keep demand high and prices high, No they're not. Last time I looked (several weeks ago) refineries were operating at their historic capacities of around 93%. and the fact that they are controlled by > the big oil companies, they can, and do, manipulate production to > manipulate prices. Not true, many refininers are completely separate corporations with no ties to big oil. They are suffering just as badly as the gas stations, as their electrical and fuel costs etc. have soared in the last few years. They're middlemen, they can't just jack up their prices unilaterally or the independent gas chains will just go elsewhere for a souce of cheaper gas, leaving them with a product with no buyers. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 18:03:08 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 18:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gap9i4$joh$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Long time back I was deep in the oil patch. > > 'all their margins are razor thin' is what they want you to believe. > That's > not conspiracy speaking but direct on the ground observations. I know you were in the business, but that was a long time ago, eh? There have been drastic changes since then. And the refininery margins *are* terrible, go check their stock prices and research their financial statistics, the numbers don't lie. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 18:14:29 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 18:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1B9D015DE12TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > >> Just because I made one mistake recently > > Only one? Define recently, I guess. > In the last 9 months or so. I'd have to check my spreadsheet to be sure, but only that one stock buy is sticking in my craw. > >> I'm not going to stop trying to make money. > > That's better. Now... Why don't you start trying to earn some money and > stop gambling so hard? Since I can't work, and haven't for over 1 1/2 years, I can't "earn" money any other way. I think I give the wrong impression here -- I really don't trade that often, less than 10 times/year in all my accounts combined (I have three). Plus, I only use money designated as "trading money" to fool around with, the rest stays invested long term, defined as "longer than one year". Gives me something to do and keeps my brain working while I wait for my health to return. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 18:51:33 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 18:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gapaa6$m0d$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Strategic reserves of gasoline? No, we don't and it's probably a good idea > not to have one. Well, explain this then: http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/apr2008/bw2008041_945564.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5 1. There Is No Shortage Gasoline reserves on hand are at the highest levels since the early 1990s, which is remarkable considering the nation's refineries have been cutting back on the production of gasoline because their margins have declined. In fact, average gasoline reserves on hand have risen since this past October, while oil reserves in this country have gone up virtually every week this year-and only fog in the Houston Ship Channel that kept oil tankers from unloading their crude one week kept it from being every week. Here's the scorecard, in case you missed it. There's no shortage of gasoline or oil in the U.S. today, and we have near-record reserves on hand. Meanwhile the Congressional mandate for ethanol has jacked up the price of chicken feed for Pilgrim's Pride, which is the U.S.'s largest processor of chickens and turkeys-by $1.3 billion. And that's for just one company processing chicken. This is what passes for acceptable to our Energy Secretary?" Can you imagine a more tempting target for a terrorist than > billions of gallons of highly flammable gasoline? The government stores > crude oil (the strategic reserve), and the NG producers store natural gas > in salt mines and other types of massive underground facilities. I think > that Enron CEO was lying out his ass to try to appease the viewing > audience. Like I said, privately owned mass storage facilities for > gasoline and crude oil were torn down years ago. He may have meant that > they stored enough gas elsewhere to ensure that there wouldn't be gas > shortages in the Houston area? I wish I could find the video of his interview. Oh, I did.....so he said they're bringing in supplies from offshore and overseas to compensate the short supply and have staged gasoline in 'affected areas' to fuel rescue efforts. http://www.truveo.com/Ike%E2%80%99s-impact-on-oil-and-gas/id/3010338214 > No they're not. Last time I looked (several weeks ago) refineries were > operating at their historic capacities of around 93%. And yet they're not coming anywhere close to keeping up with demand- no new refineries in 30 years - oil companies that own their own refineries aren't about to build more and make more because they'd lose all their record profits. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1480113/posts > > Not true, many refininers are completely separate corporations with no > ties to big oil. They are suffering just as badly as the gas stations, as > their electrical and fuel costs etc. have soared in the last few years. > They're middlemen, they can't just jack up their prices unilaterally or > the independent gas chains will just go elsewhere for a souce of cheaper > gas, leaving them with a product with no buyers. http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/articles/?storyId=15168 From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 18:58:46 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 16 19:00:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gapb45$oi0$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Since I can't work, and haven't for over 1 1/2 years, I can't "earn" money > any other way. I think I give the wrong impression here -- I really don't > trade that often, less than 10 times/year in all my accounts combined (I > have three). Plus, I only use money designated as "trading money" to fool > around with, the rest stays invested long term, defined as "longer than > one year". Gives me something to do and keeps my brain working while I > wait for my health to return. Here's a news flash for you. While you are 'waiting for your health to return', the job market has tanked. You are now old, expensive, and non-marketable because there are younger engineers out there desperate for jobs and willing to work for peanuts, no one is going to pay you what you think your worth - even IF you can even find a job to apply for. The longer you stay at home, the more dim your prospects become - if you don't suck it up and get back in the job market (what there is of it left) now, you might not work again, and not for lack of trying. You might not be 100%, but at your age you won't ever be, (another harsh reality) and you have NO idea how bad it is out there. From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 16 22:03:06 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 16 22:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gapaes$mf9$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Frog Prince" wrote in message | news:gap9i4$joh$1@news.spamcop.net... | > | > Long time back I was deep in the oil patch. | > | > 'all their margins are razor thin' is what they want you to believe. | > That's | > not conspiracy speaking but direct on the ground observations. | | I know you were in the business, but that was a long time ago, eh? There | have been drastic changes since then. And the refininery margins *are* | terrible, go check their stock prices and research their financial | statistics, the numbers don't lie. Refinery margins are terrible and are so because they are fuggable. I've not been active in the industry but I still visit and swap lies with folk that are still in the gut of the breast. Numbers don't lie but the folk that collect and report the numbers can and do. As example Exxon does not *own* any ships but they are on the hook for the support of a hell of a lot of ships. Oil companies also own the support companies that do work for the refineries. Very easy to over bill the services, it's called a transfer cost. Same pair of pants different pocket. The refinery pocket appears to be tread bear but the other pocket is flush. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 22:39:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 22:40:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gapd9m$1hq$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gapaa6$m0d$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> Strategic reserves of gasoline? No, we don't and it's probably a good >> idea not to have one. > > Well, explain this then: > http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/apr2008/bw2008041_945564.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5 Screw the analysists, got straight to the source: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_gasoline.html Clearly shows gasoline storage levels dropped in the previous measuring period, tomorrow a new report will come out and I expect it to be even worse. >> No they're not. Last time I looked (several weeks ago) refineries were >> operating at their historic capacities of around 93%. > > And yet they're not coming anywhere close to keeping up with demand- no > new refineries in 30 years - oil companies that own their own refineries > aren't about to build more and make more because they'd lose all their > record profits. > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1480113/posts NYMBYism and EPA requirements are far more in control in the lack of any new refinieries being built. Does nobody understand that refiners are NOT MAKING ANY MONEY? Please ignore googling for biased blogs and go look at the stock prices and financial data of the refineries, you're falling for the "spin" being put out by activists. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 22:45:03 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 22:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1BD08737B11TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! > >> the numbers don't lie. > > Of course they do. Shit. I was listening to this american life the other > day... Shit shit. The SEC has no balls and companies don't have to > report > everything. LIke... They don't have to report a lot of the bad stuff, > eh? Sarbanes-Oxley has removed most of the cloak off of corporate shenanigans, although I do agree that the SEC has no balls, at least not until recently when they finally figured out that the hedge funds were partly responsible for the collapse of Bear Stearns via "naked shorting" of the stock. Now they're finally taking some real action against that already illegal trading activity, but they screwed the pooch by not enforcing their own laws until a calamity occurred. They're partly to blame for the collapse in the financial system. Hedge fund raiders can destroy ANY company they want, at least until recently. Again, American "free market" greed causes grief to many. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 16 22:57:35 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 16 23:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh.....My......God...... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gapdn7$2vh$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Here's a news flash for you. While you are 'waiting for your health to > return', the job market has tanked. News flash for you. I got an agressive acupuncture treatment last Thursday, cut the grass on Saturday in the heat, and spent the next two days in bed or on the couch. I'm not "waiting" for my health to return, it's just not returning on a stable basis! Sometimes I think you really don't have any idea what I've gone thru, and continue to go thru. I'd cut off my left arm to just have a sore knee! You are now old, expensive, and > non-marketable because there are younger engineers out there desperate for > jobs and willing to work for peanuts, no one is going to pay you what you > think your worth - Whatever. I'm keeping track of a few local companies, they're both after senior thermal engineers (MS degree required plus 10 or more years experience in aerospace thermal engineering). Those people don't grow on trees, the one job opening has been there for over 6 months and I'm personal friends with the owner/founder of the company. I am far from unmarketable around here, regardless of what you believe. I just need to shake what ails me! From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 16 23:54:39 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 17 00:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" | >> Strategic reserves of gasoline? No, we don't and it's probably a good | >> idea not to have one. | > | > Well, explain this then: | > http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/apr2008/bw2008041_945564.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5 | | Screw the analysists, got straight to the source: | | http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_gasoline.html | | Clearly shows gasoline storage levels dropped in the previous measuring | period, tomorrow a new report will come out and I expect it to be even | worse. | | >> No they're not. Last time I looked (several weeks ago) refineries were | >> operating at their historic capacities of around 93%. | > | > And yet they're not coming anywhere close to keeping up with demand- no | > new refineries in 30 years - oil companies that own their own refineries | > aren't about to build more and make more because they'd lose all their | > record profits. | > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1480113/posts | | NYMBYism and EPA requirements are far more in control in the lack of any new | refinieries being built. Does nobody understand that refiners are NOT MAKING | ANY MONEY? Please ignore googling for biased blogs and go look at the stock | prices and financial data of the refineries, you're falling for the "spin" | being put out by activists. Reminiscence of the 70s' were the government certified there was no fuel other than what they knew about. Gov wasn't looking look really well as they were basing the judgment on what the industry told them (fox / hen house?) The oil industry un moth balled every service station, storage tank and barge they could get their hands on. D*mned near had to shut down one refinery south of NOLA as one of our boats and her empty fuel barges were held up in fog. Another 3 hours delay and the plant wound have been forced off line as a direct result of no more place to put the fuel. I have not bothered to look (didn't in the 70's but it was hard to not see) this time but noting I've heard on the grape vine suggest to me that the industry is not gaming us all. As to no permits more than a few permits for expansion issued in the past 10 years are still open. Nothing being done now or then. Recall the bar pick up line "I'll still respect you in the morning"? Lack of planning? They didn't know Ike was commiong? More you're doing a heck of a job EXXON? From dfmanno at mail.com Wed Sep 17 01:29:10 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Wed Sep 17 01:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" wrote: > > "Indigo" wrote: > > > >> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html > >> > >> Came up blank page for me. > > > > You're probably not registered with the site. > > I know I was once, but CookieCleaner must have wiped out my cookie. Here's the nut grafs: > Ms. Palin walks the national stage as a small-town foe of ŗgood old boy˛ > politics and a champion of ethics reform. The charismatic 44-year-old > governor draws enthusiastic audiences and high approval ratings. And as the > Republican vice-presidential nominee, she points to her management experience > while deriding her Democratic rivals, Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. > Biden Jr., as speechmakers who never have run anything. > > But an examination of her swift rise and record as mayor of Wasilla and then > governor finds that her visceral style and penchant for attacking critics ‹ > she sometimes calls local opponents ŗhaters˛ ‹ contrasts with her carefully > crafted public image. > > Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired officials > who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and > personal grievance, according to a review of public records and interviews > with 60 Republican and Democratic legislators and local officials. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (H. L. Mencken) From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 17 14:39:56 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 17 15:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: political sign of the week References: <3afc5133-f7a7-43f3-86ce-e2bf28318531@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Seen at an anti-Palin demonstration in Anchorage last week: “McCain and Palin = McPain.” From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 17 16:39:08 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 17 16:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Stoopid Texans! References: <4cb95ac6-30d4-40ce-89b3-ef71e7557689@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Imagine being so dumb they'd build cities right where hurricanes strike year after year. Fortunately, they are so independent, they won't be expecting federal aid, since they bitched so much about New Orleans getting it. They should just bulldoze galveston and houston and rebuild inland. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 17:08:09 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Wed Sep 17 17:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Stoopid Texans! References: <4cb95ac6-30d4-40ce-89b3-ef71e7557689@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:garpv4$q0i$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Imagine being so dumb they'd build cities right where hurricanes > strike year after year. Fortunately, they are so independent, they > won't be expecting federal aid, since they bitched so much about New > Orleans getting it. > > They should just bulldoze galveston and houston and rebuild inland. > > Why? great swathes of Houston are just fine, for example where I live. Bolivar, or Western Galveston Island, Surfside on the other hand, should allow only Dutch to live there, or turn it into a Park. Never heard of Amsterdam under water,, hurricanes, bombs, wars notwithstanding. From borgholio at storymind.com Wed Sep 17 17:11:09 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Wed Sep 17 17:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Stoopid Texans! In-Reply-To: References: <4cb95ac6-30d4-40ce-89b3-ef71e7557689@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Bar0 wrote: > > "Frog Prince" wrote in message > news:garpv4$q0i$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> Imagine being so dumb they'd build cities right where hurricanes >> strike year after year. Fortunately, they are so independent, they >> won't be expecting federal aid, since they bitched so much about New >> Orleans getting it. >> >> They should just bulldoze galveston and houston and rebuild inland. >> >> > > Why? great swathes of Houston are just fine, for example where I live. > Bolivar, or Western Galveston Island, Surfside on the other hand, should > allow only Dutch to live there, or turn it into a Park. > > Never heard of Amsterdam under water,, hurricanes, bombs, wars > notwithstanding. My best friend used to live in Odessa. She referred to it as the "Armpit of the country". She hated it. Interestingly, my next-door neighbor's wife is from the south and she visited Odessa a few times in her youth. She used the exact same phrase when describing the city. :) That's one place I'm sure nobody would care to rebuild. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 17:33:36 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 17 17:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] It's about time the SEC got off their fscking asses! Message-ID: Look for a lot of turmoil in the markets in the next day or two as the criminal naked shorters scramble to find the shares they need to avoid prosecution. This is a VERY good and important move the SEC is making, the "shorts" were responsible to taking down Bear Stearns, which started this whole (recent/new) financial mess. The law has been on the books forever, but the SEC just chose to look the other way......finally somebody put a hot poker where it would get some action out of them. SEC stiffens rules on 'naked' short selling Agency had been criticized by top lawmaker for inaction By Robert Schroeder, MarketWatch Last update: 11:03 a.m. EDT Sept. 17, 2008 Comments: 20 WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The Securities and Exchange Commission issued new rules Wednesday aimed at protecting investors from so-called "naked" short selling of securities as the U.S. financial sector is experiencing one of its biggest shake-ups in history. The agency required short sellers and their broker-dealers to deliver securities by the close of business on the settlement date, and said broker-dealers who violate the requirement will be prohibited from short sales in the same security unless certain conditions are met. See MarketWatch First Take commentary. Regulators also made clear that those who lie about their intention or ability to deliver securities in time are breaking the law when they fail to deliver. "These several actions today make it crystal clear that the SEC has zero tolerance for abusive naked short selling," SEC Chairman Christopher Cox said in a statement Wednesday. A day earlier, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd publicly criticized Cox for what he said was inadequate action on naked short selling. "I've been disappointed," Dodd told reporters on Tuesday afternoon. "Where's the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission?" Short selling itself isn't illegal. But "naked" shorting can allow market-manipulators to force prices down much lower than would be possible in a legitimate short sale. In an abusive naked short sale, according to the SEC, the seller doesn't borrow a stock, as would happen in an ordinary short sale. The seller also fails to deliver the stock to the buyer. In a regular short sale, the seller borrows a stock and sells it, with the understanding that the loan has to be repaid by buying the stock. The agency's rules go into effect Thursday morning. The American Bankers Association applauded the agency's new rules but said they may not go far enough to protect banks from abusive practices. End of Story Robert Schroeder is a reporter for MarketWatch in Washington. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 17:49:21 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 17 17:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Geez...it's so bad money market funds are getting hit! Message-ID: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aEuRSZrqCBS4&refer=home Money-Market Alternatives Are Limited, Advisers Say (Update1) By Jeff Plungis Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Jittery investors reacting to Reserve Management Corp.'s decision to suspend redemptions in a money-market fund don't have a lot of safer alternatives, financial advisers say. Reserve Management, a pioneer in the money-market business, became the first fund in 14 years to expose investors to losses yesterday. Shareholders had withdrawn more than 60 percent of the New York-based fund's assets over two days. ***The fund yesterday wrote off $785 million in Lehman Brothers Holdings, Inc. debt.*** Bank accounts insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. and U.S. Treasury bonds are among the few alternatives for investors who pull out of the $3.58 trillion money-market industry. The three-month U.S. Treasury bill paid its lowest rates since at least 1954 today as investors fled the stock market and drove down yields. Larger companies that offer money-market funds, such as Fidelity Investments, Charles Schwab Corp. and Merrill Lynch & Co., have resources to prop up their funds, said Stan Richelson, a financial adviser and author of ``Bonds: The Unbeaten Path to Secure Investment Growth.'' ``Reserve didn't have the cash or the will to buy the Lehman paper,'' Richelson said. ``The large sponsors have a track record. When paper goes down, they buy it back.'' U.S. money-market mutual-fund assets were $3.58 trillion as of Sept. 10, just below their peak of $3.59 trillion set a week earlier, according to the Investment Company Institute, a Washington-based trade group. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 17:58:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 17 18:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] We are now the proud(?) owners of AIG Message-ID: The Feds let Merrill Lynch and Lehman get crushed, but reversed course and bought a majority stake in AIG. Where'd they find $85 billion, in the couch cushions? And since us taxpayers now own it, do we get any money from the company when it returns to profitability? (that was a joke, son) Meanwhile, we had another 450 point loss in the Dow Jones -- that's almost 1000 points in 2 days! And somehow my one and only mutual fund managed to eak out a 2.5% gain -- they must have shorted some financials is my guess. http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/17/news/companies/aig_explainer/?postversion=2008091715 Why the Fed pulled the trigger on AIG What did the government get for its $85 billion? Time to try to unwind a company with $1 trillion in assets. NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The federal government's rescue of American International Group gave the insurance titan something even more important than access to $85 billion ... it gave AIG time. Time is what the beleaguered insurer needs to unwind its sprawling operations - it has $1.1 trillion in assets and 74 million clients - in an orderly manner. Had the company been forced into bankruptcy, it would have to unload its subsidiaries quickly and at a deep discount. "It gives time for AIG to sell assets without having to put out the fire sale sign," said Stewart Johnson, portfolio manager with Philo Smith & Co. a Stamford, Conn.-based investment bank specializing in insurance. As in the case of any distressed company, sellers can't demand top dollar for their assets when they are in trouble. Just look at Lehman Brothers, which declared bankruptcy on Monday after the federal government refused to bail it out. The investment bank is now forced to sell its holdings at a deep discount. It pawned its North American operations to Barclays Tuesday for a paltry $1.7 billion. But in AIG's case, the situation is even more serious. The company is much larger and complex than Lehman Brothers and its assets hitting the market all at once would likely cause worldwide chaos and send values plummeting. Experts question whether there are even enough qualified buyers out there to digest the company and its subsidiaries. Attack began last week AIG came under attack last week as investors grew increasingly concerned about the company's capital levels. Over the weekend, it turned to the Federal Reserve for a loan, but officials had their hands full with Lehman Brothers' unraveling. Reluctant to help AIG, officials pushed investment banks to provide the funding, even as AIG's stock price fell 69% in two days. After it became clear that the private sector would not come to AIG's aid, the Federal Reserve Tuesday night stepped in and gave the insurer access to as much as $85 billion. The offer is good for two years, but comes at a steep interest rate of nearly 11.4%. In return, the government took a 79.9% stake in the insurer and expects AIG to sell off assets to repay the loan. "[A] disorderly failure of AIG could add to already significant levels of financial market fragility and lead to substantially higher borrowing costs, reduced household wealth and materially weaker economic performance," the Fed said in a statement. "This loan will facilitate a process under which AIG will sell certain of its businesses in an orderly manner, with the least possible disruption to the overall economy." AIG's troubles lie in its exposure to complex credit-default swaps - an insurance-like product that protects buyers from bond defaults. But while the parent company is suffering, many of its subsidiaries are not only profitable, they are desirable, experts said. The company has more than enough collateral to back the loan, senior Fed staffers said Tuesday night. Experts interviewed agree that AIG's units are worth more than $85 billion. The first businesses the company is likely to unload are its financial services unit, said Donald Light, senior analyst at Celent, a Boston-based financial research and consulting firm. However, since it is at the root of AIG's problems and lost $14.8 billion in the first half of 2008, AIG might not get much for it. Its non-insurance subsidiaries, such as its aircraft leasing business that reported income of $555 million for the first six months of the year, will likely fetch more. Already, the unit's chief is looking to buy the company from AIG, the Wall Street Journal reported. Its fleet of 1,000-plus aircraft alone is valued at $55 billion. Core insurance products might be kept What happens to the company's core insurance and retirement services subsidiaries is the big question. They are undoubtedly among AIG's most attractive units, but they are also the heart of the business. Its general insurance business - which includes property and casualty - brought in $2.2 billion in profits this year. Its life insurance unit is likely the last thing the company wants to sell since it is the bedrock of AIG's business, experts said. Though the subsidiary has been hit this year by fallout from the credit crisis, forcing it to take a $9.6 billion charge in the first six months of the year, it is generally stable. "They will try to keep all or nearly all of the insurance business in place," Light said. The Fed likely took an equity stake in the company, rather than just giving AIG a loan, because it felt the company has a lot of value and might make money for taxpayers, said Anthony Sanders, professor of financial institutions at New York University. The government made a similar investment in Continental Illinois bank, which failed in 1984, and turned it around at a profit. "The payoff on equity is unlimited on the upside," Sanders said. "With debt, you just get interest." To top of page From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 18:19:37 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Wed Sep 17 18:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Stoopid Texans! References: <4cb95ac6-30d4-40ce-89b3-ef71e7557689@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:garrp5$v77$1@news.spamcop.net... > Bar0 wrote: >> >> "Frog Prince" wrote in message >> news:garpv4$q0i$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> >>> Imagine being so dumb they'd build cities right where hurricanes >>> strike year after year. Fortunately, they are so independent, they >>> won't be expecting federal aid, since they bitched so much about New >>> Orleans getting it. >>> >>> They should just bulldoze galveston and houston and rebuild inland. >>> >>> >> >> Why? great swathes of Houston are just fine, for example where I live. >> Bolivar, or Western Galveston Island, Surfside on the other hand, should >> allow only Dutch to live there, or turn it into a Park. >> >> Never heard of Amsterdam under water,, hurricanes, bombs, wars >> notwithstanding. > > My best friend used to live in Odessa. She referred to it as the "Armpit > of the country". She hated it. Interestingly, my next-door neighbor's > wife is from the south and she visited Odessa a few times in her youth. > She used the exact same phrase when describing the city. :) That's one > place I'm sure nobody would care to rebuild. Have you ever looked at a map of Ontario Canada? Guess where the Ass..le is? Anyway, Odessa is no worse or better than many bait camp towns. It's a gritty blue collar city. But it is safe away from the bars, and there is a lot of interesting countryside nearby, for example the Dune fields, the worlds oldest Oak forest with the worlds smallest Oak trees, a meteor crater, and other stuff. From avoozl at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 19:44:40 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Wed Sep 17 19:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: We are now the proud(?) owners of AIG References: Message-ID: Ugh. Why the govt. insists on bailing out these large companies I'll NEVER understand. *sigh* Guess that means my car insurance is now issued by the feds.. Lovely. "Indigo" wrote in message news:garuig$ftf$1@news.spamcop.net... > The Feds let Merrill Lynch and Lehman get crushed, but reversed course and > bought a majority stake in AIG. Where'd they find $85 billion, in the > couch cushions? And since us taxpayers now own it, do we get any money > from the company when it returns to profitability? (that was a joke, son) > Meanwhile, we had another 450 point loss in the Dow Jones -- that's almost > 1000 points in 2 days! And somehow my one and only mutual fund managed to > eak out a 2.5% gain -- they must have shorted some financials is my guess. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 21:06:17 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 17 21:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: We are now the proud(?) owners of AIG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message news:gas4os$55o$1@news.spamcop.net... > Ugh. Why the govt. insists on bailing out these large companies I'll NEVER > understand. *sigh* You must have missed this paragraph, they basically tried to stop a world wide calamity: "But in AIG's case, the situation is even more serious. The company is much larger and complex than Lehman Brothers and its assets hitting the market all at once would likely cause worldwide chaos and send values plummeting. Experts question whether there are even enough qualified buyers out there to digest the company and its subsidiaries." From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 21:10:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 17 21:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? In-Reply-To: References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-8D01B8.01291017092008@news.cesmail.net... > > Here's the nut grafs: Thnx. >> Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired >> officials >> who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and >> personal grievance, Sounds like a perfect (identical) replacement for the Bush/Cheney/Rove cabal! From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 17 21:39:13 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 17 21:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Stoopid Texans! References: <4cb95ac6-30d4-40ce-89b3-ef71e7557689@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Bar0" wrote in message news:garrjr$vab$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Frog Prince" wrote in message | news:garpv4$q0i$1@news.spamcop.net... | > | > Imagine being so dumb they'd build cities right where hurricanes | > strike year after year. Fortunately, they are so independent, they | > won't be expecting federal aid, since they bitched so much about New | > Orleans getting it. | > | > They should just bulldoze galveston and houston and rebuild inland. | > | > | | Why? great swathes of Houston are just fine, for example where I live. | Bolivar, or Western Galveston Island, Surfside on the other hand, should | allow only Dutch to live there, or turn it into a Park. | | Never heard of Amsterdam under water,, hurricanes, bombs, wars | notwithstanding. Echoes of what those in Galveston, Houston and especially Dallas said of New Orleans. | From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 21:43:47 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 17 21:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Could this be too good to be true? Message-ID: Do I smell a smoking gun? Palin's yahoo account hacked, no wonder wikileaks is down right now! http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/palins_yahoo_account_hacked.html From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 17 22:34:00 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 17 22:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] McCain Blasts Wall Street Failure opps his blow buddy Gramm engineered the legislation that started it. References: Message-ID: McCain Blasts Wall Street Failure, Neglects To Mention His Adviser Helped Cause It As the news broke of the Lehman Brothers meltdown and the rest of the latest financial crisis, John McCain, speaking at a campaign rally in Florida on Monday, angrily declared, We will never put America in this position again. We will clean up Wall Street. This is a failure. And in a statement released by his campaign, McCain called for greater "transparency and accountability" on Wall Street. If McCain wants to hold someone accountable for the failure in transparency and accountability that led to the current calamity, he should turn to his good friend and adviser, Phil Gramm. As Mother Jones reported in June, eight years ago, Gramm, then a Republican senator chairing the Senate banking committee, slipped a 262-page bill into a gargantuan, must-pass spending measure. Gramm's legislation, written with the help of financial industry lobbyists, essentially removed newfangled financial products called swaps from any regulation. Credit default swaps are basically insurance policies that cover the losses on investments, and they have been at the heart of the subprime meltdown because they have enabled large financial institutions to turn risky loans into risky securities that could be packaged and sold to other institutions. Lehman's collapse threatens the financial markets because of swaps. From Bloomberg: Bond-default risk soared worldwide as the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. sparked concern than the $62 trillion credit-derivatives market will unravel.... Lehman, the fourth-largest securities firm until last week, has been one of the 10 largest counterparties in the market for credit-default swaps, according to a 2007 report by Fitch Ratings. The market, which is unregulated and has no central exchange where prices are disclosed, has been the fastest-growing type of so-called over-the-counter derivative, according to the Bank for International Settlements. "The immediate problem is the derivative default swaps market, in which a plethora of institutional accounts and dealer accounts are at risk,'' Bill Gross, manager of the world's largest bond fund at Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach, California, said in an interview with Bloomberg Radio yesterday. "It induces a tremendous amount of volatility and uncertainty.'' Barclays Capital analysts have estimated that if a financial institution with $2 trillion in credit-default swap trades were to fail, it might trigger between $36 billion and $47 billion in losses for institutions that traded with the firm. So the Lehman fiasco--caused in part by the use of unregulated swaps--could lead to ruin elsewhere in the economy. Gramm is responsible for the rise of the wild and woolly $62 trillion swaps market. And he was chairman of the McCain campaign and a top economic adviser for McCain--until he dismissed Americans worried about the economy as "whiners." After that comment, McCain dumped Gramm. But was Gramm truly excommunicated from McCain land? Last month, he attended a meeting of McCain's top supporters in Aspen, Colorado. And at a dinner that day, McCain singled out Gramm for praise. Last week, failed Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul revealed that Gramm, now an exec for Swiss banking giant UBS (which also lost billions of dollars due to subprime loans and swaps), had recently called him as part of a McCain effort to win Paul's endorsement. Paul turned Gramm down. (Both Gramm and Paul are Texas Republicans.) Gramm's Paul-courting effort seems to indicate that the fellow who has done much to cause the current financial troubles (and who was once considered a possible Treasury secretary should McCain win the White House) is back in the good graces of the McCain campaign. Shortly after McCain promised he would "clean up" Wall Street, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, his running mate, appeared at a Colorado rally on Monday morning and proclaimed that "John McCain and I will put an end to the abuses in Washington and Wall Street that have resulted in this financial crisis." She promised a McCain administration would "reform the way Wall Street does business." (She was short on details and spent more time discussing Colorado sports stars from Alaska.) What neither she nor McCain has explained is how they plan to be able to reform Wall Street when they are being assisted by 177 lobbyists and the guy who greased the way to the current crisis with a backroom legislative maneuver. If McCain and Palin are serious about never putting America "in this position again," they ought to consider seriously writing down any economic advice they get from Phil Gramm. ****** By the way, both McCain and Palin decried golden parachutes for CEOs. What might Carly Fiorina, a top McCain adviser and surrogate, think of that? She received a $21 million severance package when she was forced out as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, after her not-so-successful stint there--and the value of her golden parachute eventually reached $42 million. http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/09/9718_mccain_lehman_crisis_gramm.html From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 17 22:34:54 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 17 22:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] City to investigate police actions against journalists References: Message-ID: http://www.southsidepride.com/2008/09/articles/City_Investigation.html City to investigate police actions against journalists by Dennis Geisinger published Sept. 15 2008 Minneapolis City Council Members Cam Gordon (Green-Ward 2) and Gary Schiff (DFL-Ward 9) have called for a public hearing and independent investigation into law enforcement actions taken against protesters and the journalists who covered them during the Republican National Convention (RNC) in St. Paul. There are reports of as many as 40 journalists being arrested during the convention. Police detained at least six photojournalists on Labor Day, including one from the Associated Press. The arrests prompted a formal complaint from National Press Photographers Association President Bob Carey, who said in his letter to St. Paul Police Chief John Harrington that, “There’s no excuse for physically assaulting or arresting a photographer who is not creating a disturbance.” Reporters from ABC News and Fox News were also caught up in the fray. However, independent journalists, many of whom subscribe to the relatively new practice of journalism solely by video documentation, seemed to be the ones who were most targeted by police in both Minneapolis and St. Paul. Three members of New York City’s Glass Bead Collective video team were stopped and searched near Washington Avenue North early in the morning of Aug. 26. They were questioned about their travel plans and associations, and their cameras, cell phones and notebooks were confiscated. The three were told they were being questioned because of car burglaries that were occurring in the area, but police reported later that they were under suspicion of trespassing on railroad property. Attorney Bruce Nestor, president of the Minnesota chapter of the National Lawyers Guild, said that the City was looking for information—phone numbers, names of activists, demonstration schedules—that Nestor said were part of protected journalistic sources, source information that was to be used to cover protests. “All of this information [was] taken by Minneapolis Police as part of what we believe [was] an intelligence operation to gather information on activists, to gather information on the location of protected First Amendment activity—to use it to investigate and further crack down on protected activity,” Nestor said. “This is absolutely outrageous behavior for a police department towards individuals who are engaged in First Amendment protected activity and who have a documented record for exposing police misconduct,” said Nestor. Heavily armed police stormed a house in St. Paul where video journalists were meeting and arrested independent media, bloggers and videomakers. Occupants of the house testify on videos appearing on Salon.com that during their search, cops used nicknames to identify themselves like “The Executioner” and “The Terminator.” Videos of the treatment and subsequent arrests of some journalists have proved to be the most ubiquitous and damning evidence against police. A YouTube video of the arrest of independent journalist and Democracy Now! host, Amy Goodman, was the highest viewed video on that site during the first week of September. Charges against Goodman for misdemeanor obstruction of a police officer have not been dropped, according to Democracy Now! staff. She was arrested while trying to question police as to why two of her producers had been detained. The two, Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole Salazar, had been arrested while filming protesters and may still be charged under the offense of felony riot, according to the Ramsey County Attorney’s Office. The depiction of Salazar’s arrest is perhaps one of the most chilling of all recorded police actions at the convention, showing her being forced to the ground and stepped on by police in riot gear as she screams, “Press! Press! Press!” “I’ve been on the phone for the past two weeks trying to pitch this story to the major media outlets and no one seems interested,” Democracy Now! Director of Outreach Jessica Cox told Southside Pride. “Amy said to me yesterday that you should be able to report the news without getting a record yourself!” Cox said. James Lockwood, spokesman for St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman told Southside Pride that, “Many orders were given to disperse. Failure to do so resulted in arrests.” According to Lockwood, the City of St. Paul has engaged two former federal prosecutors, Tom Heffelfinger and Andy Luger, to conduct a review of police actions at the RNC, but that review will not investigate individual complaints against the police. “For right now we have no information to contradict police,” said Lockwood, who added that any accusations of police misconduct would be handled through the City’s Police-Civilian Internal Affairs Review Commission at 651-266-5583. Coldsnap Legal Collective is holding meetings and gathering information about the arrests of protesters and journalists. If you feel you were falsely arrested, contact them by calling Rick Kelley at 612-598-5058 or Kris Hermes at 510-681-6361. Their e-mail address is coldsnap@riseup.net “Here we have every indication of an orchestrated assault by federal and local law enforcement agencies to stifle independent sources of information,” said Indy journalist Timothy Karr in the Huffington Post on Sept. 3. “They definitely knew that it would be the Indy media that would tell the real story,” said local activist Cheri Honkala. And, as she has said in independent media venues, much of the violence during the convention that has been laid at the feet of protesters was in fact the actions of plants put inside protest ranks. “Many young folks came up to me and said, ‘We have no idea who these people are,’ ” Honkala said. After reporting a deal that “required the Republican Party’s host committee to buy insurance covering up to $10 million in damages and unlimited legal costs for law enforcement officials accused of brutality, violating civil rights and other misconduct,” the hometown bastion of the free press, the Minneapolis Star and Tribune, editorialized its support for police tactics. “The show of force was a reasonable response to the behavior and the threat posed by a relatively small number of rogue protesters who traveled to the Twin Cities for no other reason than to damage property, abuse the police and disrupt the business of the Republican National Convention,” the editorial board for the Strib concluded. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 17 23:54:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Wed Sep 17 23:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gasbol$ot3$1@news.spamcop.net... > Do I smell a smoking gun? Palin's yahoo account hacked, no wonder > wikileaks is down right now! > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/palins_yahoo_account_hacked.html > Also in the register. From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 18 05:56:21 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 18 06:00:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Mavericks for Change? References: <1cd420e6-60c1-4b47-9bd2-f7ac783f3472@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > "D.F. Manno" wrote: > > > Here's the nut grafs: > > Thnx. > > >> Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired > >> officials who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between > >> government and personal grievance, > > Sounds like a perfect (identical) replacement for the Bush/Cheney/Rove > cabal! Why do you think she's on the ticket? -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain. From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 18 05:58:45 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 18 06:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: In article , "Heidi" wrote: > Do I smell a smoking gun? Palin's yahoo account hacked, no wonder wikileaks > is down right now! > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/palins_yahoo_account_hac > ked.html Awww, ain't that just too damn bad. It's exactly what she deserves for trying to evade state records laws. She seems to know as much about the Internet as her running mate. Even newbies know not to use Web mail for sensitive material. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain. From loafman at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 08:46:14 2008 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Thu Sep 18 08:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:43:47 -0400, Heidi wrote: > Do I smell a smoking gun? Palin's yahoo account hacked, no wonder > wikileaks is down right now! > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/ palins_yahoo_account_hacked.html Odd thing about wikileaks... I cannot access it through Verizon, it times out, so it's not being blocked, just 'slowed'. However, if I go at it though Tor, it comes up just fine. Wonder if the head of Verizon is a Republican... From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Sep 18 09:00:23 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Sep 18 09:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: Kenneth Loafman wrote: > Odd thing about wikileaks... I cannot access it through Verizon, it > times out, so it's not being blocked, just 'slowed'. However, if I go > at it though Tor, it comes up just fine. I can't access the wikileaks webserver today, but there are a number of blogger sites with the screenshots. Initiating server query ... Looking up IP address for domain: wikileaks.org The IP address for the domain is: 88.80.13.160 Connecting to the server on standard HTTP port: 80 No response was received from the machine and port at that IP. The machine may be offline or the connection port may be stealthed. Query complete. http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-emails Here are the screenshots of the emails saved before the account went dark, along with the contact list. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From loafman at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 09:07:17 2008 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Thu Sep 18 09:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:00:23 -0700, Mike Easter wrote: > Kenneth Loafman wrote: >> Odd thing about wikileaks... I cannot access it through Verizon, it >> times out, so it's not being blocked, just 'slowed'. However, if I go >> at it though Tor, it comes up just fine. > > I can't access the wikileaks webserver today, but there are a number of > blogger sites with the screenshots. > > Initiating server query ... > Looking up IP address for domain: wikileaks.org The IP address for the > domain is: 88.80.13.160 Connecting to the server on standard HTTP port: > 80 No response was received from the machine and port at that IP. The > machine may be offline or the connection port may be stealthed. Query > complete. > > > http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-emails Here are the > screenshots of the emails saved before the account went dark, along with > the contact list. Yep, there's not much in the way of real info on wikileaks either. I did manage to get the zip file. It's only 1.1MB if anyone wants to see it. Just drop me a PM at the address above. >From what I could tell, there may not be any smoking guns in the email they released, other than proof that she's using a back channel to avoid government accountability. From what I can tell, her party is all in favor of secrecy, so it may not make much difference. ...Ken From loafman at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 09:12:04 2008 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Thu Sep 18 09:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] The real difference between liberals and conservatives Message-ID: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html "Psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies the five moral values that form the basis of our political choices, whether we're left, right or center. In this eye-opening talk, he pinpoints the moral values that liberals and conservatives tend to honor most." This is a very enlightening talk if you want to understand the differences between liberals and conservatives. Enjoy! ...Ken From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 11:58:51 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Thu Sep 18 12:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gasbol$ot3$1@news.spamcop.net... > Do I smell a smoking gun? Palin's yahoo account hacked, no wonder > wikileaks is down right now! > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/palins_yahoo_account_hacked.html > I agree with the following take on things by Lauren Weinstein of pfir.org I quote some of it below: Why Hacking Sarah Palin's E-Mail Was Dumb, Dumber, and Just Plain Wrong http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000429.html Greetings. By now you've probably heard -- assuming that we're not dealing with a sophisticated and probably unlikely political hoax -- that Sarah Palin's Yahoo account has been hacked, and apparently quantities of her e-mail, photos, and related materials have been publicly posted ( http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-emails )._ Since it has previously been suggested in some quarters that Gov. Palin often used private e-mail accounts for Alaska state business - -- which would avoid government data retention laws associated with official e-mail -- the exposure of the Yahoo data seems to be triggering considerable glee in some quarters. As much as I hold in disdain the concept of someone like Sarah Palin being considered for a single microsecond as qualified to be Vice President of this great country, and as much as I find most of her viewpoints and her public modus operandi to be appalling, I still must assert that any joy over this hacking is dumb, wrong -- and dangerous -- both from ethical and practical standpoints. ...... Dumb, dumber, and wrong. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 18 14:11:35 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 18 14:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: "Bar0" | > Do I smell a smoking gun? Palin's yahoo account hacked, no wonder | > wikileaks is down right now! | > | > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/palins_yahoo_account_hacked.html | > | | I agree with the following take on things by Lauren Weinstein of pfir.org I | quote some of it below: | | | | Why Hacking Sarah Palin's E-Mail Was Dumb, Dumber, and Just Plain Wrong | | http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000429.html | | | Greetings. By now you've probably heard -- assuming that we're not | dealing with a sophisticated and probably unlikely political hoax -- | that Sarah Palin's Yahoo account has been hacked, and apparently | quantities of her e-mail, photos, and related materials have been | publicly posted ( http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-emails )._ | | Since it has previously been suggested in some quarters that Gov. | Palin often used private e-mail accounts for Alaska state business | - -- which would avoid government data retention laws associated with | official e-mail -- the exposure of the Yahoo data seems to be | triggering considerable glee in some quarters. | | As much as I hold in disdain the concept of someone like Sarah Palin | being considered for a single microsecond as qualified to be Vice | President of this great country, and as much as I find most of her | viewpoints and her public modus operandi to be appalling, I still | must assert that any joy over this hacking is dumb, wrong -- and | dangerous -- both from ethical and practical standpoints. | | ...... | | Dumb, dumber, and wrong. | | --Lauren-- | Lauren Weinstein | lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org | Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 | http://www.pfir.org/lauren | Co-Founder, PFIR | - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org | Co-Founder, NNSquad | - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org | Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com | Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy | Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com | | Live by the sword die by the sword. Bush and co., in fact the majority of the high end of the 'Publican political party, are active in the abuse of privacy and by extension our freedoms. While I don't agree with what was done the active efforts on the part of the Rebulinc party to block public discloser of things that are by rights the public's to know does give some justification to those disclosures. Recall the Pentagon Papers? Know also that upon taking office Bush announced to his friends and to all the world he would not be using email or the internet for JUST THIS REASON, i.e. the communications are subject to public exposure. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 14:29:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Thu Sep 18 14:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gau5kh$o6r$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Live by the sword die by the sword. > > Bush and co., in fact the majority of the high end of the 'Publican > political party, are active in the abuse of privacy and by extension our > freedoms. > > While I don't agree with what was done the active efforts on the part of > the > Rebulinc party to block public discloser of things that are by rights the > public's to know does give some justification to those disclosures. > > Recall the Pentagon Papers? > > Know also that upon taking office Bush announced to his friends and to all > the world he would not be using email or the internet for JUST THIS > REASON, > i.e. the communications are subject to public exposure. > > Trouble is, now, if it is determined that SP violated or avoided whatever open records act is in force in Alaska by using non-state facilities, for state activities any evidence here is tainted, and ultimately not likely to be admissible in court. Remember the golden rule is not; do unto others as they have done to you. From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 18 15:39:52 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 18 15:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Could this be too good to be true? References: Message-ID: "Bar0" | > | > Live by the sword die by the sword. | > | > Bush and co., in fact the majority of the high end of the 'Publican | > political party, are active in the abuse of privacy and by extension our | > freedoms. | > | > While I don't agree with what was done the active efforts on the part of | > the Rebulinc party to block public discloser of things that are by rights the | > public's to know does give some justification to those disclosures. | > | > Recall the Pentagon Papers? | > -- | > Know also that upon taking office Bush announced to his friends and to all | > the world he would not be using email or the internet for JUST THIS | > REASON, i.e. the communications are subject to public exposure. | > | > | | Trouble is, now, if it is determined that SP violated or avoided whatever | open records act is in force in Alaska by using non-state facilities, for | state activities any evidence here is tainted, and ultimately not likely to | be admissible in court. Non admissibility only applies if the discovery was done by LE without a search warrant. To my understanding if a thief steals documents or other evidance and that becomes either public record or in the poseion of of law enforcement they can use that information to obtain a search warrant. The only time that is qualified is if the police put the thief up to the game to start with. | Remember the golden rule is not; do unto others as they have done to you. Given that G Bush and co have been down that path already, pay back is hell. Reminds me of the admonitions to turn the other cheek, ... a full court double moon is in order here. From avoozl at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 17:58:04 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Thu Sep 18 18:00:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: We are now the proud(?) owners of AIG References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gas9i8$j7b$1@news.spamcop.net... > You must have missed this paragraph, they basically tried to stop a world > wide calamity: > > "But in AIG's case, the situation is even more serious. The company is > much > larger and complex than Lehman Brothers and its assets hitting the market > all at once would likely cause worldwide chaos and send values plummeting. > Experts question whether there are even enough qualified buyers out there > to > digest the company and its subsidiaries." > No, I didn't. It would resolve itself eventually. However, it sounds like in this case it was justified compared to almost all other takeovers. From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 18 21:02:24 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 18 21:05:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Remove Obama, McCain from ballot References: Message-ID: http://www.wild104.net/cc-common/political/article.html?feed=104707&article=4255722 AUSTIN, Texas, Sept. 17 (UPI) -- Libertarian U.S. presidential candidate Bob Barr says the two major party nominees should be booted from the Texas ballot for missing deadlines. Barr, a former Republican U.S. congressman from Georgia, has filed a lawsuit in Austin, Texas, seeking the removal of Democratic nominee Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and Republican candidate Sen. John McCain of Arizona, The Austin (Texas) American-Statesman reported Wednesday. The state of Texas requires that all candidates provide "written certification" of their nomination "before 5 p.m. on the 70th day before election day," but neither McCain nor Obama had been formally nominated by their parties by then, Barr contends in the suit. The newspaper reported the Libertarian candidate contends it's a matter of fairness, saying in the suit, "The seriousness of this issue is self-evident. The hubris of the major parties has risen to such a level that they do not believe that the election laws of the State of Texas apply to them." From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 22:45:12 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 18 22:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1CDAA636E09TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! > >> I do agree that the SEC has no balls, at least not until recently >> when they finally figured out that the hedge funds were partly >> responsible for the collapse of Bear Stearns via "naked shorting" of >> the stock. > > Your statements show that you do not konw what was going on. I directed > you to a source of information. You can download the show. Why not try > to > do that? Post it again, please. I can just about guarantee that I know more about the operations and shenanigans going on in the stock market than anyone else on this board -- by far. And biased non-fact based blogs DO NOT COUNT. I want a complete account from a well known stock analysist/company before I'll believe anything I read that you link to. You do know that the SEC finally declared that they were going to fully enforce the naked shorting rules for all stocks starting today , right? And you think it's just a coincidence that the DOW is up 400 points? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 23:06:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 18 23:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1CDAA636E09TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... collapse of Bear Stearns via "naked shorting" of >> the stock. > > Your statements show that you do not konw what was going on. I directed > you to a source of information. You can download the show. Why not try > to > do that? Copied from a finance MB: "Jim Cramer He said the SEC's laissez faire attitude towards the market has done more damage to the financial stocks than any CEO ever possibly could. Cramer said the SEC's removal of the "uptick" rule and failure to enforce other rules designed to prevent naked shorting played a key role in the destruction of the financial sector. "If you break a financial company's stock, you break the company," he said. Financial companies use their stock to raise capital, he explained, and in the case of AIG, the shorts have destroyed the stock, making it impossible for the company to save itself. AIG's stock price would not be trading at just a dollar a share if the rules were being enforced, he said. Cramer said the company's current share price doesn't reflect the value of the assets. Instead, "it reflects where the shorts want it to be," he said. Cramer theorized that with adequate protection against naked shorts, AIG may have been able to execute a plan to sell its assets. He cited the SEC's implementation of "emergency measures" on July 15 as proof that the rules work. After the financial stocks were protected from shorting, they rallied 40%." FYI, Cramer used to run a hedge fund that engaged is every nefarious kind of trading they could get away with......now he's moved from the "dark side" to more of an education type TV show. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 23:08:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 18 23:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1CDAA636E09TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Your statements show that you do not konw what was going on. I directed > you to a source of information. You can download the show. Why not try > to > do that? Also BTW -- my two financial stocks were up over 23% today ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 18 23:10:38 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 18 23:15:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1CDAA636E09TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Your statements show that you do not konw what was going on. I directed > you to a source of information. You can download the show. Why not try > to > do that? Piling on now: New York AG launches probe of short-selling Thursday September 18, 4:42 pm ET By Stevenson Jacobs, AP Business Writer New York attorney general launches probe into short-selling of stocks of Wall Street firms NEW YORK (AP) -- New York state is launching an investigation into whether some traders used illegal tactics to drive down the stock price of several Wall Street firms. Attorney General Andrew Cuomo told reporters Thursday his office has received a "significant number" of complaints about short sellers, or investors who hope to profit by placing bets that a financial company's stock will fall. ADVERTISEMENT Short-selling is not illegal. But Cuomo said he will focus on whether short sellers engaged in conspiracy or spread rumors and bad information to influence the stock prices of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., American International Group Inc., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley and other firms that have been hammered in the ongoing financial crisis. "I want the short sellers to know today that I am watching. If it's proper and legal, they have nothing to worry about," Cuomo said. "It is illegal, however, when such shorting is combined with the spread of false information in order to bring a company down." Short-selling occurs when traders borrow shares of a stock they expect will fall and sell them. If the stock does indeed fall, the traders buy the cheaper shares to cover the borrowed ones and profit from the difference. Naked short-selling occurs when sellers don't actually borrow the shares before selling them. It's a practice some say is partially responsible for the huge drop in the shares of investment banks like Lehman, Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns Cos., which JPMorgan Chase & Co. bought earlier this year. Cuomo said he believes the federal government has been "ineffective" in dealing with short sellers and said his office would go after traders found to be illegally using the practice to manipulate markets. "The markets need to be stabilized, and one way to help bring about such stability is to root out and deter short-selling that is based on the spread of false information," Cuomo said. Cuomo said the probe would employ the state's powerful Martin Act, which provides criminal and civil enforcement powers for publicly traded companies. The investigation comes amid growing international scrutiny over short-selling. Britain's Financial Services Authority said Thursday it is temporarily banning short-selling of shares in publicly traded financial companies. FSA chief executive Hector Sants said his organization still regards short-selling as a legitimate investment technique, but he says "extreme circumstances" have required new rules to protect against further financial turmoil. On Wednesday, the Securities and Exchange Commission adopted rules it said would provide permanent protections against abusive "naked" short-selling. The SEC this summer issued a temporary emergency ban on naked short-selling in the stocks of mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and 17 large investment banks, but the new rules apply to trading in the broader market. SEC Chairman Christopher Cox also said he planned to ask his four fellow commissioners to consider on an emergency basis a new rule that would require hedge funds and other large-scale investors to disclose their short positions -- the stocks they have borrowed and sold but not yet replaced. Cuomo called the SEC measures a positive step but said "more is needed." He called on the agency to "immediately freeze short-selling of financial sector stocks on a temporary basis," just as British regulators have done. In a statement, Morgan Stanley applauded the probe and said it also supports a temporary freeze on short-selling of financial stocks, "given the extreme and unprecedented movements in the market that are unsupported by the fundamentals of individual stocks." From me at privacy.net Thu Sep 18 23:13:21 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Sep 18 23:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gav3no$g3r$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Charles" wrote in message | news:Xns9B1CDAA636E09TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... | > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! | > | >> I do agree that the SEC has no balls, at least not until recently | >> when they finally figured out that the hedge funds were partly | >> responsible for the collapse of Bear Stearns via "naked shorting" of | >> the stock. | > | > Your statements show that you do not konw what was going on. I directed | > you to a source of information. You can download the show. Why not try | > to | > do that? | | Post it again, please. I can just about guarantee that I know more about the | operations and shenanigans going on in the stock market than anyone else on | this board -- by far. And biased non-fact based blogs DO NOT COUNT. I want a | complete account from a well known stock analysist/company before I'll | believe anything I read that you link to. | | You do know that the SEC finally declared that they were going to fully | enforce the naked shorting rules for all stocks starting today , right? And | you think it's just a coincidence that the DOW is up 400 points? Two words Phil Graham From gezgin at spamcop.net Fri Sep 19 01:06:56 2008 From: gezgin at spamcop.net (Opinicus) Date: Fri Sep 19 01:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote > Short-selling occurs when traders borrow shares of a stock they expect > will fall and sell them. If the stock does indeed fall, the traders buy > the cheaper shares to cover the borrowed ones and profit from the > difference. "Borrow shares of a stock"... How does one "borrow shares of a stock"? Why would someone lend me shares of a stock? -- Bob http://www.kanyak.com From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 19 20:10:41 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 19 20:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1E53C7DB45TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... But naked short selling isn't killing the > market - that's just some BS that the SEC concocted. Baloney. The SEC IGNORED it. I didn't claim that naked shorts "are killing the market", I said that they helped take down Bear Stearns. They've taken down plenty of other companies, you just haven't heard about it. It never should have > been allowed but... It wasn't being allowed! Serious. No shit. Really? It wasn't being allowed? Then explain to me why this list exists: http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/Trader.aspx?id=RegSHOThreshold To save you the trouble of trying to understand the meaning of the list, every stock on it represents a company whose shares were shorted but were not "delivered", i.e. borrowed. Meaning they are phantom shorted shares. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 19 20:16:02 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 19 20:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Opinicus" wrote in message news:gavc1i$bko$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Indigo" wrote > >> Short-selling occurs when traders borrow shares of a stock they expect >> will fall and sell them. If the stock does indeed fall, the traders buy >> the cheaper shares to cover the borrowed ones and profit from the >> difference. > > "Borrow shares of a stock"... > > How does one "borrow shares of a stock"? Why would someone lend me shares > of a stock? Bob? Long time no see! It would be easier for you to google "stock shorting " than for me to attempt to explain it here. Here's a quickie description from TD Ameritrade: What is short selling? Short selling is a sale (or request to sell) of a security that you do not own. Orders to sell short are placed with the anticipation that the market price of a security will decline so that you may then purchase the security (buy to cover) at a lower price. These are the requirements for short selling at TD AMERITRADE. 1. The funds need to be in the account prior to order placement. 2. The account must be margin approved.* 3. The stock must be marginable and available to short. Please note: Shares must be available for loan either through an internal inventory or through agreements that are in place with external brokerage firms. When short selling, the risk of loss is potentially unlimited and you may be required to cover your short position at an unfavorable price; there is no guarantee that TD AMERITRADE can continue a short position for an unlimited time. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 19 20:16:52 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 19 20:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1E55DC8B03TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! > >> FYI, Cramer used to run a hedge fund that engaged is every nefarious >> kind of trading they could get away with......now he's moved from the >> "dark side" to more of an education type TV show. > > Uh. He still makes his money off of the rubes. You mean his viewers? From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 19 20:20:14 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 19 20:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1E5AE2B913TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! > >> Piling on now: > [...] >> NEW YORK (AP) -- New York state is launching an investigation into >> whether some traders used illegal tactics to drive down the stock >> price of several Wall Street firms. > > Used illegal practices? You mean... What the SEC did added NOTHING to > the > picture? It was already illegal? So... The SEC isn't doing shit. Duh. > I already told you that. Changing your tune a bit? You just sed: "But naked short selling isn't killing the market - that's just some BS that the SEC concocted. It never should have been allowed but... It wasn't being allowed! Serious. No shit." > > And posting articles in their entirety is not considered fair use, eh? Oh gimme a break. If that's all you got left to say in this debate you may as well bow out now. From gezgin at spamcop.net Fri Sep 19 23:33:32 2008 From: gezgin at spamcop.net (Opinicus) Date: Fri Sep 19 23:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote >>> Short-selling occurs when traders borrow shares of a stock they expect >>> will fall and sell them. If the stock does indeed fall, the traders buy >>> the cheaper shares to cover the borrowed ones and profit from the >>> difference. >> "Borrow shares of a stock"... >> How does one "borrow shares of a stock"? Why would someone lend me shares >> of a stock? > What is short selling? > Short selling is a sale (or request to sell) of a security that you do not I understand short selling. (Sort of.) What I don't understand is the "borrowing" bit. When I borrow something in the real world I receive it from somebody else for while with the understanding that I'm going to give back. How does that apply to shares of stock and short selling? -- Bob http://www.kanyak.com From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 20 05:52:27 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 20 05:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] OPEC minister reaffirms production levels Message-ID: So much for OPEC assertions that the market price is a funciton of the specualtors. *OPEC minister reaffirms production levels TEHRAN, Sept. 19 (UPI) -- Iran's chief oil minister Mohammad Ali Khatibi said OPEC members would keep oil production level until the organization meets on Dec. 17. Recent upheavals in financial markets in the United States and elsewhere could cause a drop in demand, which would require production cuts to keep prices elevated. However, Khatibi said "it's too early to judge," how the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries will react to recent market turmoil, Iran's Fars news service reported. "Demand is a key issue and signals from the economy in the United States are not good. But I hope demand will recover," he said. OPEC met in Vienna, Austria, earlier this month. The group agreed to maintain production at levels set a year ago with Venezuelan Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez expressing his desire to keep crude prices at or above $100 per barrel. Prices on the New York Mercantile Exchange Friday were near the mark at $99.59 per barrel. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 20 13:59:57 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 20 14:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OPEC minister reaffirms production levels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gb2h4u$apj$1@news.spamcop.net... > > So much for OPEC assertions that the market price is a funciton of the > specualtors. > recent market turmoil, Iran's Fars news > service reported. > > "Demand is a key issue and signals from the economy in the > United States are not good. But I hope demand will recover," he > said. > > OPEC met in Vienna, Austria, earlier this month. The group > agreed to maintain production at levels set a year ago with > Venezuelan Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez expressing his desire to keep > crude prices at or above $100 per barrel. > > Prices on the New York Mercantile Exchange Friday were near > the mark at $99.59 per barrel. > It's a mixture of all of it. Speculators drove the prices to $150, falling demand drove them back down to $100. The key for the world economy is to keep the price stable at some narrow range so that companies can properly plan for the future and put reliable fuel/energy costs into their estimates. Look at Southwest, who had their fuel hedged the last 3 years -- they were the only airline to make money because of their fixed fuel costs. For those unfamiliar with the term, "hedging" means you make a contract with a fuel supplier to buy X amount of fuel for Y number of months or years at Z price. If the price goes up, the fuel provider loses, if the price goes down the hedger loses. But it provides stability, which is more crucial than the actual raw cost. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 20 14:11:55 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 20 14:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Opinicus" wrote in message news:gb1que$ji0$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I understand short selling. (Sort of.) What I don't understand is the > "borrowing" bit. When I borrow something in the real world I receive it > from somebody else for while with the understanding that I'm going to give > back. How does that apply to shares of stock and short selling? > >From Wikipedia: Normal shorting Main article: Short (finance) Short selling is a form of speculation that allows a trader to sell securities that he does not own, effectively taking a "negative position". They do this when they expect the value of the securities to decrease in the market, allowing them to sell securities at today's price and then buy the securities back when they decrease in value. With a large enough move in the price, the trader can purchase the securities, "covering" their position, for less money than they received for selling them earlier. The opposite case can also occur; if the price increases they will be forced to cover at a higher cost, a money-losing trade. In order to make the initial sale, the regular method is first to "borrow" securities from a current shareholder, typically a bank or prime broker, agreeing to return them when demanded by the lender. The trader then delivers these borrowed shares to the buyer, a third party. The lender generally charges an interest fee on the share value during the time when the position is being held by the trader. When the trader wants to "unwind" the position, he buys back the shares in the market and returns them to the lender. This short/borrow system ensures the trader has shares to deliver to his buyer, and the lender makes some money on a position that he was not actively trading. In some markets (such as USA), government regulations require that a short sale transaction be preceded by a locate, process where the broker browses inventory sources to provide a reasonable estimate that the broker can arrange to borrow the stock required for the transaction. If a locate is not obtained, then a short sale cannot be done and is against regulations. Naked shorts in the United States Naked short selling is a case of short selling the shares without first arranging a borrow. If the stock is illiquid or simply has a small number of outstanding shares, finding the (shares to) borrow can be difficult to arrange. In these cases, to ensure delivery, the trader normally arranges for the borrow before making the trade. In the case where a borrow cannot be arranged within that time period and the shares cannot be given to the buyer, the trade is considered to have "failed to deliver."[5] The SEC states that "Naked short selling is not necessarily a violation of the federal securities laws or the Commission's rules," and clarifies that in some circumstances, it can contribute to market liquidity.[6] However, naked shorting to drive down share prices violates US law. In recent years, a number of companies have been accused of using naked shorts in order to make profits at the expense of share prices. To do this, the trader simply enters a naked short with no intention of ever delivering the shares.[5] A large enough short sale could cause the price to fall, as is the case with any stock being sold, so as long as the trade is large enough to move the share price, the short is likely to be profitable. Normally this would be risky; if the price did move back up for other reasons, the trader would be driving the price up with every purchase, a condition known as a "short squeeze".[citation needed] But as long as the buyer turns around and shorts it back into the market, the price continues dropping, making the trades profitable even though no one actually holds any of the shares.[5] Legal naked shorting would normally be invisible in a liquid market, as long as the short sale is eventually delivered to the buyer. However, if the covers are impossible to find, the trades fail. A sudden rise in the number of fail reports will alert the SEC that something irregular is going on. In some recent cases, it was claimed that the daily activity was larger than all of the available shares, which would normally be unlikely.[5] From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 20 14:12:53 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 20 14:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1EDF59FB19DTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! >> "Charles" wrote in message >> news:Xns9B1E55DC8B03TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > >>> Uh. He still makes his money off of the rubes. >> >> You mean his viewers? He gets paid a pittance to do his TV show compared to how hard he works at it, like him or not! From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 20 14:15:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 20 14:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1EE01B074C5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Indi, I don't think that you're paying attention. The SEC didn't do > shit - > it's ALWAYS been illegal. Give me a fucking break. Go to the site I > directed you to and stop being such a know-it-all. Bullshit. The SEC knew about it for a long time and ignored it. Now they are finally enforcing the law. How is that "not doing shit" about it? From joegill at removethis Sat Sep 20 16:38:51 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sat Sep 20 16:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The real difference between liberals and conservatives References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1D73FB22E7ETheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was Kenneth Loafman and s/he can't take it back > now! > >> This is a very enlightening talk if you want to understand the >> differences between liberals and conservatives. Enjoy! > > So... Where's the transcript? I could read it in a few minutes instead > of > having to listen to 19 minutes of whatever. Sigh. > -- > May as well say something here. There. Doesn't that feel better? Part way through he refers to a website... http://www.yourmorals.com Very interesting site. Allows one to explore their morals... Interesting project out of the University of Southern California. "...where you can learn about your own morality while contributing to scientific research on moral psychology. " Many aspects of personality are related to morality. Many aspects of behavior are influenced by moral motives. And many conflicts and misunderstandings are driven by differences in morality. But rather than simply telling you these things, we want you to see for yourself. After each questionnaire or experiment you complete, we'll give you an immediate report on how you scored, and what your score means. "This website is a collaboration among five social psychologists who study morality and politics. Our goal was to create a site that would be useful and interesting to users, particularly ethics classes and seminars, and that would also allow us to test a variety of theories about moral psychology. One of our main goals is to foster understanding across the political spectrum. Almost everyone cares about morality, and we want to understand --and to help others understand -- the many different ways that people care." From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 20 17:42:59 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 20 17:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The real difference between liberals and conservatives References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" | | Part way through he refers to a website... http://www.yourmorals.com | Very interesting site. Allows one to explore their morals... | | Interesting project out of the University of Southern California. | | "...where you can learn about your own morality while contributing to | scientific research on moral psychology. " | Many aspects of personality are related to morality. Many aspects of | behavior are influenced by moral motives. And many conflicts and | misunderstandings are driven by differences in morality. But rather than | simply telling you these things, we want you to see for yourself. After each | questionnaire or experiment you complete, we'll give you an immediate report | on how you scored, and what your score means. | | "This website is a collaboration among five social psychologists who study | morality and politics. Our goal was to create a site that would be useful | and interesting to users, particularly ethics classes and seminars, and that | would also allow us to test a variety of theories about moral psychology. | One of our main goals is to foster understanding across the political | spectrum. Almost everyone cares about morality, and we want to | understand --and to help others understand -- the many different ways that | people care." The last time folk in my generation registered for anything they were giving out guns, all the bullets we could shoot. the real problem someone gave the guys on the other side ... guns and all the bullets they could shoot. Lesson: don't register for anything. From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 20 18:13:53 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 20 18:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gb3ekl$b1i$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Charles" < | > Indi, I don't think that you're paying attention. The SEC didn't do | > shit - | > it's ALWAYS been illegal. Give me a fucking break. Go to the site I | > directed you to and stop being such a know-it-all. | | Bullshit. The SEC knew about it for a long time and ignored it. Now they are | finally enforcing the law. How is that "not doing shit" about it? Local cops know about a dope house or whore house or unlicensed beer store and do nothing about it. In street parlance that's 'not doing shit'. Does the phase "You're doing a fine job Brownie' ring a bell? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 13:52:51 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 13:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Discovered something interesting over the weekend Message-ID: As most of you know, I'm still not recovered from my lyme infection, although we believe that we have been dealing with the "after effects" and organ damage from a long term infection and that I don't have active lyme disease. Without going thru the whole history of my on/off consumption of medically prescribed hydrocortisone, it's clear that I haven't taken to heart how powerful the effects of that stuff is, even at a change in dosage of only 5 mg. I became convinced over the weekend that I need to be more careful in changing my dosage, something I have to do since my body isn't regulating my cortisol levels on it's own. My acupuncturist had been gently urging me to be careful, but it wasn't until I researched it this weekend because of some recent health issues that I now understand what she was trying to warn me about -- too much cortisol can dampen the immune system, among other things. On a related issue, I bought a home testing kit to test my tap water quality. I've never been able to drink the local tap water because is gave me stomach problems. All the tests were negative, pH was 7.5, and hardness was 120, and although the measured chlorine level was extremely low my ex-gf said she could smell the chlorine in my tap water, and too much chlorine or fluoride make many people sick to their stomach. So I googled water quality to see if my pH and hardness are in normal ranges (they are), but I stumbled upon something that has me a little concerned and confused (read snippet below, then my extra comments): "Most people who suffer from unbalanced pH are acidic. This condition forces the body to borrow minerals-including calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium-from vital organs and bones to buffer (neutralize) the acid and safely remove it from the body. Because of this strain, the body can suffer severe and prolonged damage due to high acidity-a condition that may go undetected for years. Mild acidosis can cause such problems as: * Cardiovascular damage, including the constriction of blood vessels and the reduction of oxygen. * Weight gain, obesity and diabetes. * Bladder and kidney conditions, including kidney stones. * Immune deficiency. * Acceleration of free radical damage, possibly contributing to cancerous mutations. * Hormone concerns. * Premature aging. * Osteoporosis; weak, brittle bones, hip fractures and bone spurs. * Joint pain, aching muscles and lactic acid buildup. * Low energy and chronic fatigue. * Slow digestion and elimination. * Yeast/fungal overgrowth. " *** Of course my eyes bulged out when I read this (on many websites), since I suffer from many of the above symptoms. I also have been taking electrolyte supplements for several years (one of the first symptoms of my sickness besides hives was a tendency to get heat exhaustion, which is caused by low electrolytes), but my blood tests indicate that my sodium, potassium, and chloride levels are at the very, very bottom of "normal", despite my extra consumption of those minerals. And I like salt on my food. My calcium levels are lowish normal. Upon further reading, it turns out that nearly all bottled water except for Deer Park and Evian are mildly to highly acidic due to the purification process they go thru. I've been only drinking filtered or bottled water for over 14 years now, buying whatever is cheapest or whatever is available at the store I'm shopping in, and I drink about 1/2 gal/day, the recommended amount. I've also had to have _every_ molar in my mouth capped/crowned in the last 10 years as the teeth just crumbled/cracked, a sign of strongly acidic saliva -- I don't drink Coke or colas, not for over 10 years, so I can't blame it on that VERY acidic drink for ruining my teeth. I'm going to get pH strips to test my saliva and bloodtests to check my blood pH, but I found several websites that claim that nothing you can eat or drink can change the pH level of your body, as the body will self-regulate itself. But my body has not been self-regulating multiple functions properly for several years now, so I don't know whether to believe the debunkers, to believe the "you need to drink alkiline water" folks, am I in an entirely different category due to my health problems, or are some of my health problems due to this alkilinity issue? Color me confused! Any and all comments are welcome, I'm sure if Mike reads this he'll come up with some good arguments against this theory, I want to hear as much from both sides as I can. Some pages "for" the alkaline water argument: http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/alkaline.htm http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/acid-alkaline.html http://articlesofhealth.blogspot.com/2007/05/excess-acidity-weakens-all-body-systems.html http://bouncingwater.com/waterinfo.htm Article against (they're hard to find, at least with the search terms I used): http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/221722/debunking_ph_balancing.html?page=2&cat=68 From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 22 14:36:10 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 22 14:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Palin's town charged women for rape exams References: <9f99913f-df14-4787-84b1-ccd67f8bc5f9@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >From anoher ng: If anyone thinks that Sarah Palin has any interest in supporting Women's rights, this should put that to rest. ANCHORAGE, Alaska (CNN) -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's hometown required women to pay for their own rape examinations while she was mayor, a practice her police chief fought to keep as late as 2000. Former state Rep. Eric Croft, a Democrat, sponsored a state law requiring cities to provide the examinations free of charge to victims. He said the only ongoing resistance he met was from Wasilla, where Palin was mayor from 1996 to 2002. Interviews and a review of records turned up no evidence that Palin knew that rape victims were being charged in her town. But Croft, the former state representative who sponsored the law changing the practice, says it seems unlikely Palin was not aware of the issue. "I find it hard to believe that for six months a small town, a police chief, would lead the fight against a statewide piece of legislation receiving unanimous support and the mayor not know about it," Croft said. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/21/palin.rape.exams/?iref=hpmostpop From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 14:47:49 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 14:50:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B1F960ED3E65TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It was "Indigo" and s/he can't take it back now! >> "Charles" wrote in message >> news:Xns9B1EE01B074C5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > >> The SEC knew about it for a long time and ignored it. Now >> they are finally enforcing the law. How is that "not doing shit" about >> it? > > It's always been illegal. They only said they'd do anything about it for > 20 companies. Their actions on those 20 companies didn't do shit to save > them. For one, those companies had much deeper troubles than the shorts (the subprime mortgage mess), but the shorts were piling on and making their values drop even faster, making them have to sell their CDOs at firesale prices to raise cash. In other words, the shorts helped make what could have been an orderly structured sale of assets into a chinese fire drill. In addition, the SEC announced last Friday that they are going to start enforcing naked shorting on ALL stocks. That was a big reason why we had two huge up days in the market, shorts were desperate to find shares to cover their naked bets. Plus, they have banned ANY shorting of a list of 799 financial stocks for the next 2 weeks. They added 3 more stocks to the list today: GE, GM, and AMEX. Other global stock markets are also joining the trend: WASHINGTON -- The effort to quash short selling gained momentum around the globe Sunday as Australia, Taiwan and the Netherlands announced restrictions to prevent investors from betting that stocks will decline. [Christopher Cox] Christopher Cox The Securities and Exchange Commission and the U.K.'s Financial Services Authority clamped down on the practice, which they blamed for the declines of financial stocks, late last week. Sunday, Australia banned placing short sales on any stock, taking it further than its decision Friday to tighten such rules. Taiwan will ban short selling of 150 of the market's heavyweights when they trade below the previous session's closing levels for the two weeks starting Monday, the Financial Supervisory Commission said. Dutch regulator Autoriteit Financi?le Markten, or AFM, banned so-called naked short selling of financial institutions for three months. >If you're not going to go to the episode of this american life, this > conversation is over. Parse that for us normal humans, please? From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 22 14:50:00 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 22 14:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Any and all comments are welcome, I'm sure if Mike reads this he'll > come up with some good arguments against this theory, I want to hear as > much from both sides as I can. Recommended background reading would be some human physiology textbook in the chapters on acid-base homeostasis. Besides water, whose acid or alkaline pH may make a relatively small contribution to your body's need to manage its pH, the principle daily intake and production of your acids and bases is the food you eat and how it is metabolized by your intermediary metabolism. It would be expected that your acid-base homeostasis would be normally managed by the same buffer systems as everyone else's, utilizing your kidneys and respiration for fine tuning. If a person had no kidneys, managing their metabolism for the necessary tight control of pH would be a very tedious job performed by the dialysis team. Here's one online treatise http://www.anaesthesiamcq.com/AcidBaseBook/ABindex.php Acid-Base Physiology That happens to be an .au anesthesia practioner site, but it looks pretty good. A simplistic overview can be seen in the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_homeostasis ... which also provides links to several other useful essays from the U of KS & Magill. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 14:54:11 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 14:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: .10 since Sunday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gb3sj1$83u$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Local cops know about a dope house or whore house or unlicensed beer store > and do nothing about it. In street parlance that's 'not doing shit'. > The point I'm trying to make is NOW THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Why is that so hard for everyone to understand? Did they "not do shit" in the past years? Of course, that's why them finally getting off of their collective asses is such a big deal. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 15:03:05 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 15:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gb8pco$n3s$1@news.spamcop.net... > > It would be expected that your acid-base homeostasis would be normally > managed by the same buffer systems as everyone else's, utilizing your > kidneys and respiration for fine tuning. If a person had no kidneys, > managing their metabolism for the necessary tight control of pH would be a > very tedious job performed by the dialysis team. Well, my acupuncturist frequently works on my kidneys and bladder, as they are not always functioning normally according to her. Some of the other stuff I read is that the pancreas, liver, etc, organs are partially responsible for releasing enzymes used to maintain the proper body pH level -- those two organs are also frequently treated by my acupuncturist. I think the key to all of the arguments for/against trying to raise the pH level in your body is that they are talking about "normal", or healthy, people, something I surely am not. I haven't dug into whether the pituitary gland is involved in the pH balancing process, but we know mine isn't working properly. > > Here's one online treatise > http://www.anaesthesiamcq.com/AcidBaseBook/ABindex.php Acid-Base > Physiology > > That happens to be an .au anesthesia practioner site, but it looks pretty > good. > > A simplistic overview can be seen in the wiki > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_homeostasis Thanks Mike. I'll read them when I get a minute. From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 22 16:53:54 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 22 17:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] USA Taxpayers to Bail out Foreign Banks References: Message-ID: So who is getting bailed out and by how much? And how do they plan to pay the American taxpayer money back? How come the pockets of the people heading these companies aren't being empitied out? ==================================== http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20838.htm US Tax Payers To Bail Out Foreign Banks Paulson: Foreign Banks can use U.S. Rescue Plan By Mark Felsenthal WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Sunday that foreign banks will be able to unload bad financial assets under a $700 billion U.S. proposal aimed at restoring order during a devastating financial crisis. "Yes, and they should. Because ... if a financial institution has business operations in the United States, hires people in the United States, if they are clogged with illiquid assets, they have the same impact on the American people as any other institution," Paulson said on ABC television's "This Week with George Stephanopolous." Paulson was appearing on the Sunday television talk show circuit to provide details about the U.S. government plan for a sweeping bailout to mop up hundreds of billions of dollars in toxic mortgage debt. The moves capped a week in which financial markets faced their most serious confluence of crises since the Great Depression in the 1930s and threatened national economies and the worldwide banking system. Paulson defended the rescue package as painful and costly, but necessary to stabilize a financial system that has all but ground to a halt. "The situation we had, where the markets are frozen and lending may not be available, is one that won't be good for the American people," he said. "The fact that the taxpayer is in this position is painful to me." Paulson acknowledged that an emergency rescue plan aimed at stabilizing a financial system in freefall will cost taxpayers money, but argued that costs will not be as high the $700 billion limit of the package. "The taxpayer is at risk," he said on "Fox News Sunday" television program, but added, "It would be extraordinary circumstances, highly unlikely, that the cost will be anything like the amount you spend for the assets." Paulson said the U.S. government is pressuring financial authorities in other countries to adopt similar financial stabilization plans. "We have a global financial system and we are talking very aggressively with other countries around the world, and encouraging them to do similar things, and I believe a number of them will," he said. Paulson said the sudden crisis was stunning but he expressed hope in U.S. economic resilience. "I wouldn't bet against the long-term fundamentals of this country," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "But this is a humbling experience to see so much fragility in our capital markets, and ask how did we ever get here." "I'm confident Congress will move and move quickly," Paulson he added. From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 22 17:07:27 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 22 17:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > "Mike Easter" >> It would be expected that your acid-base homeostasis would be normally >> managed by the same buffer systems as everyone else's, utilizing your >> kidneys and respiration for fine tuning. > Well, my acupuncturist frequently works on my kidneys and bladder, Sometimes the powers of acupuncturists, like those of voodoo and/or hoodoo practitioners, are pretty amazing to me. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 19:49:17 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 22 19:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gb8q56$pcl$1@news.spamcop.net... > I haven't dug into whether the pituitary > gland is involved in the pH balancing process, but we know mine isn't > working properly. Has no one said anything about your pituitary and adrenals being connected, and maybe the steroids are having a negative effect on both? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 21:50:08 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 21:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gb91ee$od9$1@news.spamcop.net... > Sometimes the powers of acupuncturists, like those of voodoo and/or hoodoo > practitioners, are pretty amazing to me. > She literally saved my life. I don't particularly care to know about the energy meridians and chi and what not, but I do know that she does things to me that have mightily powerful affects on my body and health, both physically and mentally. She's worth every penny I pay her (not covered by insurance). From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 21:56:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 22:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gb9atu$ohm$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gb8q56$pcl$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > I haven't dug into whether the pituitary >> gland is involved in the pH balancing process, but we know mine isn't >> working properly. > > Has no one said anything about your pituitary and adrenals being > connected, and maybe the steroids are having a negative effect on both? Yes, the steroids have a negative affect on the adrenals and pituitary gland, plus they dampen the immune system, allowing things like yeast to thrive (some of my yeast symptoms have come back). The body sees that it has plenty of cortisol available, so the pituitary gland doesn't issue the signal to the adrenal glands to produce any. Now how you break down the LSH and TSH levels to see which chemical messages are being sent to which glands, that's beyond me. I need to make an appointment with an endicrinologist, been putting it off, but I've had enough of this constant bouncing around of my hormone levels. The zinc supplement wasn't the magic bullet we were seeking. From borgholio at storymind.com Mon Sep 22 21:59:12 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Mon Sep 22 22:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... Message-ID: Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but I had no idea what the name of the piece actually was. After some searching and one extraordinary piece of good luck, I found that the piece was recorded by a company named Immediate Music. Immediate claims to supply themes music for major movies and trailers, and that they only supply to professionals and such. I fired off an email asking how much it'd cost to download the MP3 version of the theme for a home-made fanfic movie of my own (which is true, I actually am fleshing out the ideas and such for my own fanfic). But in truth, while this piece would be perfect for my movie, it'd also be great to listen to simply for enjoyment. I know the song exists, I know who composed it, and I know who holds the license / copyright for it, but since I don't know the name...I have the daunting prospect of listening to thousands of Youtube samples, hoping to find the right one. :-/ There must be an easier way... From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 22:09:53 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 22 22:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:gb9ihc$vbh$1@news.spamcop.net... > Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an > excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but I had > no idea what the name of the piece actually was. Why not just rip the audio from the YouTube video with something like the freeware app FreeStudio 3.1? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 22 22:37:52 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 22 22:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gb9ibv$cf6$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Yes, the steroids have a negative affect on the adrenals and pituitary > gland, plus they dampen the immune system, allowing things like yeast to > thrive (some of my yeast symptoms have come back). The body sees that it > has plenty of cortisol available, so the pituitary gland doesn't issue the > signal to the adrenal glands to produce any. Now how you break down the > LSH and TSH levels to see which chemical messages are being sent to which > glands, that's beyond me. I need to make an appointment with an > endicrinologist, been putting it off, but I've had enough of this constant > bouncing around of my hormone levels. The zinc supplement wasn't the magic > bullet we were seeking. Maybe, just maybe, you should stop fucking around with diagnosing yourself and let the endo do it? If you do have Lyme, the steroids suppress your immune system so it can't fight that off either, so you might just be making yourslef worse, and anyone who knows you have Lyme and is still giving you dose after dose of steroids isn't very responsible. That's why steroids are given on a limited basis, it is for a quick suppression of inflammation, after a while your adrenals can't cope on their own and your immune system tanks. While you were on these steroids, did you change your eating habits to eliminate sugar, wheat, dairy, alcohol, etc to keep yeast from growing? Why the hell would you think zinc would solve all your problems? From borgholio at storymind.com Mon Sep 22 23:01:10 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Mon Sep 22 23:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "Borgholio" wrote in message > news:gb9ihc$vbh$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an >> excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but I >> had no idea what the name of the piece actually was. > > Why not just rip the audio from the YouTube video with something like > the freeware app FreeStudio 3.1? Because it's not the full length, and it includes sound effects from the video as well. From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 22 23:41:18 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 22 23:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] The Birk Economic Recovery Plan References: Message-ID: >From another NG Interesting idea. Of course, the politicians would never do anything this logical. I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend. To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00. My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend. Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000 .00. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage housing crisis solved. Repay college loans what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college it’ll be there Save in a bank create money to loan to entrepreneurs. Buy a new car create jobs Invest in the market capital drives growth Pay for your parent’s medical insurance health care improves Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean or else Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces. If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( vote buy ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President. If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+! As for AIG liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up. Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t. Sure it’s a crazy idea that can never work. But can you imagine the Coast-To-Co ast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC . And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest. Kindest personal regards, Birk T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic From me at privacy.net Tue Sep 23 00:07:31 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Sep 23 00:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... References: Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:gb9ihc$vbh$1@news.spamcop.net... | Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an | excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but I had | no idea what the name of the piece actually was. After some searching and | one extraordinary piece of good luck, I found that the piece was recorded | by a company named Immediate Music. Immediate claims to supply themes | music for major movies and trailers, and that they only supply to | professionals and such. | | I fired off an email asking how much it'd cost to download the MP3 version | of the theme for a home-made fanfic movie of my own (which is true, I | actually am fleshing out the ideas and such for my own fanfic). But in | truth, while this piece would be perfect for my movie, it'd also be great | to listen to simply for enjoyment. | | I know the song exists, I know who composed it, and I know who holds the | license / copyright for it, but since I don't know the name...I have the | daunting prospect of listening to thousands of Youtube samples, hoping to | find the right one. :-/ There must be an easier way... You have mail. From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Sep 23 01:00:04 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Sep 23 01:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Borgholio" wrote in message > news:gb9ihc$vbh$1@news.spamcop.net... > | Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an > | excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but I had > | no idea what the name of the piece actually was. After some searching and > | one extraordinary piece of good luck, I found that the piece was recorded > | by a company named Immediate Music. Immediate claims to supply themes > | music for major movies and trailers, and that they only supply to > | professionals and such. > | > | I fired off an email asking how much it'd cost to download the MP3 version > | of the theme for a home-made fanfic movie of my own (which is true, I > | actually am fleshing out the ideas and such for my own fanfic). But in > | truth, while this piece would be perfect for my movie, it'd also be great > | to listen to simply for enjoyment. > | > | I know the song exists, I know who composed it, and I know who holds the > | license / copyright for it, but since I don't know the name...I have the > | daunting prospect of listening to thousands of Youtube samples, hoping to > | find the right one. :-/ There must be an easier way... > > You have mail. > > Replied. Thanks! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 03:46:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Tue Sep 23 03:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Debate preps show contrast between candidates Message-ID: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122204781847961747.html "To get in the debating mood, Republican John McCain will host a town-hall event and take a short nap. His rival, Democrat Barack Obama, will work out or shoot hoops." From dfmanno at mail.com Tue Sep 23 11:34:05 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Tue Sep 23 11:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The Birk Economic Recovery Plan References: Message-ID: In article , "Frog Prince" wrote: > From another NG > > > Interesting idea. Of course, the politicians would never do anything > this logical. > > I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. > > Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in > a We Deserve It Dividend. > > To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 > bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. > > Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman > and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. > > So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals > $425,000.00. That's only off by a factor of 1,000. 85,000,000,000/200,000,000 = 425 -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain. From jwjr at poSPAMSUCKSbox.com Tue Sep 23 12:42:24 2008 From: jwjr at poSPAMSUCKSbox.com (J. Weaver Jr.) Date: Tue Sep 23 12:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: The Birk Economic Recovery Plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > In article , > "Frog Prince" wrote: > >> But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. > > I suspect that would cause some serious inflation... Not really, because they'd be taking the $425K from us in taxes, then giving it back, then taxing us on the gift. Of course, $85B / 200M does _not_ equal $425K, so it just doesn't matter... -JW From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 12:59:03 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 23 13:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Republicans Are Morons wrote: > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122204781847961747.html > > "To get in the debating mood, Republican John McCain will host a > town-hall event and take a short nap. His rival, Democrat Barack Obama, > will work out or shoot hoops." I've been telling my conservative friends that if Grumpy McWalnuts has to go to the hospital any time before Nov. 4, he's toast. Extra points if he misses a debate because of such a visit. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 13:10:12 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 23 13:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Funny Palin, McCain, Bush pic In-Reply-To: References: <30a3b2e0-3c38-4aea-a230-b22dac74a52e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > http://apina.biz/9489.gif I like this one too: http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/davideo321/communityorganizerhr6-5d.jpg From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 13:42:31 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 23 13:45:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Is this a scam? Message-ID: And will Charles reprimand me for talking about the "s word" in .social? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4064602 From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 20:04:46 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 23 20:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gb9kq1$n9p$1@news.spamcop.net... > Maybe, just maybe, you should stop fucking around with diagnosing yourself > and let the endo do it? Didn't I just say I was going to do that? > Why the hell would you think zinc would solve all your problems? It was a possible fix, so I tried it. You have no clue how much fucking money I've spent on doctors bills and medicine this year, taking a month and a $5 bottle of zinc was worth the try. My last set of blood tests alone cost me over $100. My insurance coverage SUCKS. My bank account also sank to it's second lowest level since I've been on disability last month. Scary low. The endicrinologist is going to cost me some big bucks, and I had to wait until I paid off some bills (routine car maintainance of nearly $500 two weeks ago, car insurance was due this month, etc.) and build up some cash in my account before I started going to see a specialist. You've been there, you oughta understand. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 21:31:10 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Sep 23 21:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbb78n$883$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I've been telling my conservative friends that if Grumpy McWalnuts has to > go to the hospital any time before Nov. 4, he's toast. > > Extra points if he misses a debate because of such a visit. We can only hope. This just FRIES me. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/21/america/21debate.php W....T....F?????? And refusing press access?? For a month? The press needs to grow some balls and tell them no access, no coverage, period, why the hell should McCain dictate to the press how they're going to do their jobs? And why is the press not telling him to fuck off? From MikeE at ster.invalid Tue Sep 23 21:35:56 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Tue Sep 23 21:40:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is this a scam? References: Message-ID: Tim McGraw wrote: > And will Charles reprimand me for talking about the "s word" in .social? > > http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&addre ss=389x4064602 Ha! Very cute. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 23 21:38:00 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 23 21:40:06 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > The press needs to grow some balls and tell them no access, no coverage, period, why the hell should McCain dictate to the press how they're going to do their jobs? Because that's how the Republicans have won national elections in the 21st Century. > And why is the press not telling him to fuck off? Well, they have, kinda. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/219033.php From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 00:16:14 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Wed Sep 24 00:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] ABC News Poll: Obama Takes 52-43 Lead Among Likely Voters, Erases Republican's Post-Palin Pick Gains Message-ID: http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/story?id=5866046&page=1 From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 00:33:24 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Wed Sep 24 00:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] John McCain - Lost in Space Message-ID: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/325.html From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 12:05:14 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Wed Sep 24 12:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] You have the right to Beano Message-ID: SOUTH CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- As if getting a DUI wasn?t enough, a man arrested for driving under the influence got in a lot more trouble at the police station. Police stopped Jose Cruz on Route 60 in South Charleston Monday night for driving with his headlights off. Then, he failed sobriety tests and was arrested. When police were trying to get fingerprints, police say Cruz moved closer to the officer and passed gas on him. The investigating officer remarked in the criminal complaint that the odor was very strong. Cruz is now charged with battery on a police officer, as well as DUI and obstruction. http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/29653059.html From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 16:08:15 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Wed Sep 24 16:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > What should I say? Charles speechless? I've marked this day in red on my calendar. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 19:45:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 19:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Oh bwahahahaaaa Message-ID: *NOW* McCain feels the urge to go back to Washington and "handle things" and cancel the debate? Oh why, because maybe the poll numbers are tanking? Too damn funny, the this asshat couldn't be any more feeble if he were drooling on his own shoes. Loved the quote on Hardball, 'you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time!' I hope they proceed, and I hope Obama gets a couple of hours of uninterrupted face time. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 19:53:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 19:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] This is quite disturbing Message-ID: they will apparently stop at nothing. http://alaskadispatch.com/tundra-talk/1-talk-of-the-tundra/147-alaska-ags-ill-fated-experiment-with-public-service-in-wake-of-troopergate.html As America now knows, Troopergate is the local Alaska name for the investigation that the Alaska Legislature (by a unanimous vote of both Republicans and Democrats) directed the Judiciary Committee of the Alaska Senate to initiate to find out whether Sarah and the Palinistas who work for her in the Governor's Office tried (unsuccessfully as it turned out) to pressure Walt Monegan, the Commissioner of the Alaska Department of Public Safety, to violate civil service laws and the State's contract with the State Troopers' union by firing Trooper Mike Wooten, Sarah's ex-brother-in-law. Alaska Governor Palin welcomed the Troopergate investigation. Republican Vice Presidential Candidate Palin now wants nothing to do with it. Which brings me to the first new development: the decision by the McCain presidential campaign to fly a New York City attorney named Edward O'Callaghan into Anchorage to elbow Tom Van Flein aside and assume command of Sarah Palin's effort to run out the clock on the Troopergate investigation until after the November election. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 20:08:24 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbc06u$rdg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Heidi" wrote in message > news:gb9kq1$n9p$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Maybe, just maybe, you should stop fucking around with diagnosing >> yourself and let the endo do it? > > Didn't I just say I was going to do that? As a follow up, I spoke with my Lyme doc this evening -- he said not to expect any "final solution" from the endicronologist, my system is so messed up simple blood tests are not likely to reveal a smoking gun. And he knew of no "enlightened" docs for me to see, meaning I'm going to be stuck with standard western medicine when I see one. I've targeted several female doctors, hoping that they won't be as arrogant as the male doctors I've come across in my travails. Meanwhile, I had a fantastic day yesterday, got up at 7:30 am and did errands/small chores until 8:00 pm, nothing really strenuous. But today I slept until 2:00 pm! And I feel worn out too. I don't understand why my body can't "store up energy", so when I have these bursts of activity I don't collapse the next day. I can't increase my stamina for some reason -- I was busy yesterday, but really didn't expend much energy on my muscles except for walking around various stores looking for sundry items I needed. P.S. I tested both Poland Spring and Deer Park spring water yesterday, and both were highly acidic......not good if body pH is involved in my problems. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 20:11:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:v8ltfuv02-B17DA6.10090123092008@killface.local... > In article , > Tim McGraw wrote: > >> I've been telling my conservative friends that if Grumpy McWalnuts has >> to go to the hospital any time before Nov. 4, he's toast. > > I have a friend who is convinced that is all part of the plan and > that McCain is going to drop out of the race just prior to or > immediately following the election. Erm, what is the point of dropping out of the race "immediately following the election"? If he wins, then withdraws, does Palin become the Prez? If so, ghod help us all! From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 20:14:55 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbb78n$883$1@news.spamcop.net... > Republicans Are Morons wrote: >> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122204781847961747.html >> >> "To get in the debating mood, Republican John McCain will host a >> town-hall event and take a short nap. His rival, Democrat Barack Obama, >> will work out or shoot hoops." > > I've been telling my conservative friends that if Grumpy McWalnuts has to > go to the hospital any time before Nov. 4, he's toast. > > Extra points if he misses a debate because of such a visit. What if he cancels Friday's debate to "attend to his duties as a Senator", like he claimed late today? From me at privacy.net Wed Sep 24 20:07:47 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh bwahahahaaaa References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gbeje5$jgn$1@news.spamcop.net... | *NOW* McCain feels the urge to go back to Washington and "handle things" and | cancel the debate? Oh why, because maybe the poll numbers are tanking? Too | damn funny, the this asshat couldn't be any more feeble if he were drooling | on his own shoes. Loved the quote on Hardball, 'you have to be able to walk | and chew gum at the same time!' I hope they proceed, and I hope Obama gets | a couple of hours of uninterrupted face time. According to reports on multiple news outlets Obama and McCain had agreed to a joint announcment of the suspension of campain activities. It seem McCain jump the PR gun From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 20:25:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:gb9m5i$vbh$2@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> >> "Borgholio" wrote in message >> news:gb9ihc$vbh$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an >>> excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but I >>> had no idea what the name of the piece actually was. >> >> Why not just rip the audio from the YouTube video with something like the >> freeware app FreeStudio 3.1? > > Because it's not the full length, and it includes sound effects from the > video as well. I see. Unwanted ambient noise from a YouTube video is indeed annoying. As an aside, my recent MP3 player has been misbehaving rather drastically (a lot of the MP3s were ripped from YouTube videos, but only about 1/3 of them). When I listen to songs on my PC, they play fine. When I listen to them on my MP3 player, Bluetooth headphones or hardwired headphones, there a lot of "skips" or "freezes" during playback. What can be causing this? It's supremely annoying! I've also noticed that some songs stop playing before the song is over. I'm not sure of this, but I think it behaves better when I'm inside my house and not exposed to possible "other" Bluetooth signals outside. Is my MP3 player fscked up or what? From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 20:35:55 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:40:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Oh bwahahahaaaa References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gbeld8$pti$1@news.spamcop.net... > > According to reports on multiple news outlets Obama and McCain had agreed > to > a joint announcment of the suspension of campain activities. It seem > McCain > jump the PR gun Everything I've heard and read in the last half hour says Obama intends to go on with the debate as planned, and if McCain doesn't show up he's going to look pretty ridiculous. McCain is in trouble and he knows it, what better way to wag the dog than seize on a crisis (haven't been to Washington since April, is it, and you have to go now that your poll numbers have dropped and your VP canididate is making an ass out of you?) and make himself look presidential. This whole "play" is nothing more than Bush's trick of raising the terror alert level every time he needed a distraction, he's doing it right now by threatening that unless they pass this bailout RIGHT NOW, as is, we're going to be in a depression. I am seriously, seriously sick of being treated like I am stupid. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 21:38:43 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 21:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbekpn$oc4$1@news.spamcop.net... > > P.S. I tested both Poland Spring and Deer Park spring water yesterday, and > both were highly acidic......not good if body pH is involved in my > problems. You know I hate to say it but you seem to be becoming something of a hypochondriac. I understand wanting a solution but for pete's sake, you can't chase every little thing, cheap or not, you may be doing more harm than good. I seriously doubt your issues have anything to do with water, but they probably do have a LOT to do with the pituitary issue. Do you even know what kind of a growth that is? You need to see an endo, period, and soon. Why not try Johns Hopkins? http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/pituitary/index.cfm# From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 21:43:26 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 21:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbc06u$rdg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > It was a possible fix, so I tried it. You have no clue how much fucking > money I've spent on doctors bills and medicine this year, taking a month > and a $5 bottle of zinc was worth the try. My last set of blood tests > alone cost me over $100. My insurance coverage SUCKS. My bank account also > sank to it's second lowest level since I've been on disability last month. > Scary low. The endicrinologist is going to cost me some big bucks, and I > had to wait until I paid off some bills (routine car maintainance of > nearly $500 two weeks ago, car insurance was due this month, etc.) and > build up some cash in my account before I started going to see a > specialist. You've been there, you oughta understand. I've been there - I am STILL there, even WITH a job. You should be scared to death. You need to get back in the work force ASAP, I don't think I could say it any more plainly. You really have no idea how hard it's going to be to get a job, the economy sucks. If I were you I would suck it up, put on my best face and get some job interviews lined up pronto or you're going to see your savings evaporate and then you'll have to survive on what? From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 21:53:58 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 21:55:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbel04$ona$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Erm, what is the point of dropping out of the race "immediately following > the election"? If he wins, then withdraws, does Palin become the Prez? If > so, ghod help us all! Did you happen to see her intereview with Katie Couric? Frigging PATHETIC. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAp.q2BsrfNQ&refer=home Palin said McCain has the track record and the pragmatism to solve the crisis. Asked by Couric for examples on what McCain has done to improve oversight over Congress beyond pushing for an overhaul of mortgage-finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Palin said, ``I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.'' What the hell? This is why they won't let her talk to the media, she's an idiot. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Sep 24 22:43:25 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Sep 24 22:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Well, they weren't wrong about Edwards Message-ID: http://www.nationalenquirer.com/national_enquirer_world_exclusive_sarah_palins_secret_lover_revealed/celebrity/65481 Palin has vehemently de­nied cheating on her hus­band, and Hanson insisted to The NATIONAL ENQUIRER that he was never romantically in­volved with the 44-year-old Republican vice presiden­tial candidate. However, Hanson family insider, Jim Burdett, has gone on the record and passed a rigorous polygraph test, revealing de­tails of the affair to The NATIONAL ENQUIRER in a world exclusive interview. Burdett is a former brother-in-law of Hanson's estranged wife Carolyn's brother, Craig Batton, and still speaks with many family members. "I've known about Brad having had an affair for a long time, but it wasn't until just recently that I learned his affair was with Sarah Palin," Burdett told The NATIONAL ENQUIRER. "Sarah was elected mayor of Wasilla, Brad became a city council member in the nearby town of Palmer, and they started an affair. From borgholio at storymind.com Thu Sep 25 02:31:59 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Thu Sep 25 02:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Never found it this difficult to find a movie theme in my life... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "Borgholio" wrote in message > news:gb9m5i$vbh$2@news.spamcop.net... >> Indigo wrote: >>> >>> "Borgholio" wrote in message >>> news:gb9ihc$vbh$1@news.spamcop.net... >>>> Ok so I found this really well-made fanfic on Youtube that had an >>>> excellent music score. One piece in particular leapt out at me, but >>>> I had no idea what the name of the piece actually was. >>> >>> Why not just rip the audio from the YouTube video with something like >>> the freeware app FreeStudio 3.1? >> >> Because it's not the full length, and it includes sound effects from >> the video as well. > > I see. Unwanted ambient noise from a YouTube video is indeed annoying. > > As an aside, my recent MP3 player has been misbehaving rather > drastically (a lot of the MP3s were ripped from YouTube videos, but only > about 1/3 of them). When I listen to songs on my PC, they play fine. > When I listen to them on my MP3 player, Bluetooth headphones or > hardwired headphones, there a lot of "skips" or "freezes" during > playback. What can be causing this? It's supremely annoying! I've also > noticed that some songs stop playing before the song is over. I'm not > sure of this, but I think it behaves better when I'm inside my house and > not exposed to possible "other" Bluetooth signals outside. Is my MP3 > player fscked up or what? Well I've noticed that youtube-ripped MP3s play often pretty bad sound quality on my car CD player, but nothing like what you've described. From joegill at removethis Thu Sep 25 08:58:55 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Thu Sep 25 09:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B244E7A1442ATheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Ridiculously unscientific poll: > http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html Wouldn't trust it at all... the site cannot even do simple math. With 3 possibilities, the numbers don't add up.... Palin - 49% Biden- 49% Not sure - 0% What happened to 2%? PBS should leave polling to the professionals.....obviously they are not! From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Sep 25 09:52:13 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Sep 25 09:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > "Charles" >> Ridiculously unscientific poll: >> http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html That's the viral email distributed link. > PBS should leave polling to the professionals.....obviously they are > not! For additional PBS datapoints on the poll, including the mechanisms of the polls of others, see... http://www.pbs.org/now/palin-poll.html About The Sarah Palin Poll - From John Siceloff, Executive Producer, NOW on PBS - New and Improved - One User, One Vote. - So, is the Palin poll now "scientific"? Absolutely not. -- Some users have raised questions about our decision to collect opinion about Sarah Palin's qualifications in a poll. -- Blogs on the left and right are circulating viral emails with the exact address of the poll. -- For a more complete discussion, take a moment to read the September 19 column of Michael Getler, the PBS Ombudsman. http://www.pbs.org/ombudsman/2008/09/ombudsmans_mailbag_26.html By Michael Getler - September 19, 2008 - Pledging, Polling and Palin -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Sep 25 12:16:12 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Economic crisis Message-ID: I'm trying to decide whether to listen to Bush-Bernanke-Paulson et al or to some conspiracy theorist like Alex Jones (also much et al ). I 'always' listen to radio Art Bell's (now coast^2) while I'm sleeping in my own way, and Alex was on last night, reminding us about how he predicted almost exactly (including subprime mortgage trigger) all this on 'Bell's' show about 2 years ago. Funny how the conspiracy theorist has been talking about it for so long, but the congresscritters are supposed to instantly act on this minor little legislative change or the world as we know it will come to an end. Some Jones stuff and links here http://www.infowars.com/ ... one little excerpt "It seems that almost overnight these three stooges have gone from behaving like sedated zombies to end-times doomsayers." -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 25 12:18:17 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:20:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > Erm, what is the point of dropping out of the race "immediately following > the election"? If he wins, then withdraws, does Palin become the Prez? Yes, if McCain wins, then drops out after the Electoral College votes, Palin becomes president. If McCain wins, then drops out _before_ the Electoral College votes, then it's a free-for-all. The Republican National Committee would meet to name a candidate to replace McCain, but the electors would not be bound to vote for the replacement. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 12:46:01 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] And they thought Jeremiah Wright was weird Message-ID: Sarah Payola makes Bobby "The Exorcist" Jindal look mainstream. http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/palin-and-the-witch-hunter-chapter-ii/ From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 18:16:22 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 25 18:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B244E7A1442ATheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Ridiculously unscientific poll: > http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html Are you kidding me? She is like a 5 year old child who got caught in a lie and is making up a lot of bullshit as she goes along to get out of it. This is BEYOND pathetic....I have to wonder if she's really that dim that she actually believes what she's saying. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/palin-talks-russia-with-k_n_129318.html From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 18:44:11 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Thu Sep 25 18:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, this was even funnier than the "Hockey Moms for Truth" http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1831461 From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 19:05:28 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Sep 25 19:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: And they thought Jeremiah Wright was weird References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbgf89$om7$1@news.spamcop.net... > Sarah Payola makes Bobby "The Exorcist" Jindal look mainstream. > > http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/palin-and-the-witch-hunter-chapter-ii/ Can you imagine the uproar if it was Obama in that video? This woman is dangerously insane. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 20:55:41 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 25 21:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Did anyone know about this trampling of the Constitution? (illegal search and seizure) Message-ID: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/crossing_border.html Schneier on Security A blog covering security and security technology. May 16, 2008 Crossing Borders with Laptops and PDAs Last month a US court ruled that border agents can search your laptop, or any other electronic device, when you're entering the country. They can take your computer and download its entire contents, or keep it for several days. Customs and Border Patrol has not published any rules regarding this practice, and I and others have written a letter to Congress urging it to investigate and regulate this practice. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 20:59:17 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 25 21:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B244E7A1442ATheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Ridiculously unscientific poll: > http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html 49% yes and 49% no? Just shows the stupidity of the majority of Americans! Again. Like when the shrub got re-elected. I saw a clip on John Stewart where some news anchor was asking her some pretty basic questions that showed what an idiot she is -- when asked "what is the European Union" she didn't know, and when asked "what are the duties of a VP" she said "I don't know"! From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 21:01:17 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 25 21:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Debate preps show contrast between candidates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-CCF34F.12181725092008@news.cesmail.net... > In article , > "Indigo" wrote: > >> Erm, what is the point of dropping out of the race "immediately following >> the election"? If he wins, then withdraws, does Palin become the Prez? > > Yes, if McCain wins, then drops out after the Electoral College votes, > Palin becomes president. > > If McCain wins, then drops out _before_ the Electoral College votes, > then it's a free-for-all. The Republican National Committee would meet > to name a candidate to replace McCain, but the electors would not be > bound to vote for the replacement. > In other words, a disaster of epic proportions...... From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Sep 25 21:04:47 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Sep 25 21:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Did anyone know about this trampling of the Constitution? (illegal search and seizure) References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Last month a US court ruled that border agents can search your laptop, > or any other electronic device, when you're entering the country. They > can take your computer and download its entire contents, or keep it for > several days. Customs and Border Patrol has not published any rules > regarding this practice, and I and others have written a letter to > Congress urging it to investigate and regulate this practice. I guess you shouldn't be walking around crossing borders with any unencrypted disks if you don't want someone to see what is in there. I'm wondering what happens if you aren't configured for plausible deniability. If they can see that it looks encrypted, then presumably you don't even get your LT or hdd back until the contents get dealt with. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From dfmanno at mail.com Thu Sep 25 21:24:06 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Thu Sep 25 21:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Did anyone know about this trampling of the Constitution? (illegal search and seizure) References: Message-ID: In article , "Mike Easter" wrote: > Indigo wrote: > > > Last month a US court ruled that border agents can search your laptop, > > or any other electronic device, when you're entering the country. They > > can take your computer and download its entire contents, or keep it for > > several days. Customs and Border Patrol has not published any rules > > regarding this practice, and I and others have written a letter to > > Congress urging it to investigate and regulate this practice. > > I guess you shouldn't be walking around crossing borders with any > unencrypted disks if you don't want someone to see what is in there. > > I'm wondering what happens if you aren't configured for plausible > deniability. If they can see that it looks encrypted, then presumably you > don't even get your LT or hdd back until the contents get dealt with. Yes, if you encrypt the disks and Customs decides to search you, you will never see your laptop again if you don't give up the password. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 23:30:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 25 23:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gbeq35$6kt$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gbekpn$oc4$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> P.S. I tested both Poland Spring and Deer Park spring water yesterday, >> and both were highly acidic......not good if body pH is involved in my >> problems. > You know I hate to say it but you seem to be becoming something of a > hypochondriac. I understand wanting a solution but for pete's sake, you > can't chase every little thing, cheap or not, you may be doing more harm > than good. For once, I'm not going to argue with you about my state of mind or health. I spoke with my Lyme doc last evening, and my acupuncturist today about the water pH issue. Both were skeptical about it being a real factor in my current health status. It's way more complicated than what kind of water I'm drinking. I guess I was just got frustrated about my continuous up and down energy levels/health, and I ended up grasping at straws trying to figure out what's going on with my body. My ex g/f often accused me of being a hypochondriac, but as a lymie I absolutely have to pay attention to changes in my health, mental and physical, and I have been encouraged by my Lyme doc to keep track of subtle changes. Something that may seem minor to a "normal" person could be an indication of something major for me. I started keeping a diary about two months ago to document my daily health status and any changes in drug/supplement consumption. It's proven to be invaluable in keeping track of possible connections to my health and what my body is consuming, but I believe I've taken it too far, trying to find links between this and that in an attempt to explain why I'm still bouncing up and down, health-wise. The last 6-7 days have been the best week I've had since I fell off that step stool (5-6 weeks ago?), and at that time I was the healthiest I'd been in almost two years. I was too busy today to make an appt. with an endicrinologist (wasn't home for much of the day), but last night I did make up a list of possible docs to contact to get a full blood work-up and whatever else they want to do. I'll call them tomorrow. My lyme doc warned me to not get my hopes up that they'll find a "smoking gun", but I want to at least get a full baseline of where I'm at right now, instead of the piecemeal bits of data I've collected from various bloodtests over the last year or two. Hopefully I can get in to see one quickly, rather than having to wait the standard 4-6 weeks to see a "specialist". In the meantime, I'm kinda stuck in a grey area of wanting to know right now what's holding me back while still having the patience to let the docs do their thing and not expecting any new supplement to have instant positive effects. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 23:32:15 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 25 23:35:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Discovered something interesting over the weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi" wrote in message news:gbeq35$6kt$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gbekpn$oc4$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> P.S. I tested both Poland Spring and Deer Park spring water yesterday, >> and both were highly acidic......not good if body pH is involved in my >> problems. > You know I hate to say it but you seem to be becoming something of a > hypochondriac. I understand wanting a solution but for pete's sake, you > can't chase every little thing, cheap or not, you may be doing more harm > than good. For once, I'm not going to argue with you about my state of mind or health. I spoke with my Lyme doc last evening, and my acupuncturist today about the water pH issue. Both were skeptical about it being a real factor in my current health status. It's way more complicated than what kind of water I'm drinking. I guess I was just got frustrated about my continuous up and down energy levels/health, and I ended up grasping at straws trying to figure out what's going on with my body. My ex g/f often accused me of being a hypochondriac, but as a lymie I absolutely have to pay attention to changes in my health, mental and physical, and I have been encouraged by my Lyme doc to keep track of subtle changes. Something that may seem minor to a "normal" person could be an indication of something major for me. I started keeping a diary about two months ago to document my daily health status and any changes in drug/supplement consumption. It's proven to be invaluable in keeping track of possible connections to my health and what my body is consuming, but I believe I've taken it too far, trying to find links between this and that in an attempt to explain why I'm still bouncing up and down, health-wise. The last 6-7 days have been the best week I've had since I fell off that step stool (5-6 weeks ago?), and at that time I was the healthiest I'd been in almost two years. I was too busy today to make an appt. with an endicrinologist (wasn't home for much of the day), but last night I did make up a list of possible docs to contact to get a full blood work-up and whatever else they want to do. I'll call them tomorrow. My lyme doc warned me to not get my hopes up that they'll find a "smoking gun", but I want to at least get a full baseline of where I'm at right now, instead of the piecemeal bits of data I've collected from various bloodtests over the last year or two. Hopefully I can get in to see one quickly, rather than having to wait the standard 4-6 weeks to see a "specialist". In the meantime, I'm kinda stuck in a grey area of wanting to know right now what's holding me back while still having the patience to let the docs do their thing and not expecting any new supplement to have instant positive effects. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Sep 25 23:41:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Sep 25 23:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Did anyone know about this trampling of the Constitution? (illegal search and seizure) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-C6EC57.21240625092008@news.cesmail.net... >> I'm wondering what happens if you aren't configured for plausible >> deniability. If they can see that it looks encrypted, then presumably >> you >> don't even get your LT or hdd back until the contents get dealt with. > > Yes, if you encrypt the disks and Customs decides to search you, you > will never see your laptop again if you don't give up the password. But what if you've gone to a foreign country to do business and you have highly confidential proprietary data on your laptop concerning business negotiations/contracts/specs? You might get fired if that info gets leaked, but your laptop will be impounded if you don't give up the encryption code, rendering it's contents useless, meaning a wasted business negotiation and a possibility of a loss of sales. Surely there must be a better way of doing this!? Besides that, the NSA collects so much info that they can only process a tiny percentage of it -- is anyone actually going to have the resources to scan and analyze the contents of all those hard drives? And if you *were* a terrorist, surely you'd be smart enough not to leave any incriminating info on the HD while crossing the border, right? From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 26 01:18:44 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 26 01:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Faux News is a POS References: <05421c1e-fe96-4c66-a180-03f981b9edbe@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Host tells guest to pipe down when he brings up the Keating 5 when the other guest tries to blame dems for the current financial crisis. The host was nothing but rude to the guest but has the nerve to call the guest rude. Producer can be heard in the background saying to cut the guest's mike. http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Fox_host_tells_guest_mentioning_Keating_0925.html From avoozl at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 03:05:25 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Fri Sep 26 03:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: As far as I'M concerned.. the only qualifications should be the ones established in the US Constitution. If that isn't good enough for people then it should be amended and updated. Chris "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B244E7A1442ATheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Ridiculously unscientific poll: > http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 11:53:06 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Fri Sep 26 11:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris F. Willoughby wrote: > As far as I'M concerned.. the only qualifications should be the ones > established in the US Constitution. If that isn't good enough for people > then it should be amended and updated. Cletus Delroy Spuckler for Prez! From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 15:16:44 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 26 15:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Ping Heidi - Thank You! Message-ID: Thanks for the Johns Hopkins link. I had searched my Blue Cross Blue Shield website looking for endocrinologists, never thought about going straight to the JH website to look for specialists. After wading thru their convoluted website, I finally found the correct web pages. I have an appointment with an endrocrinologist there on Oct 27th (so soon!), and I'm on a waiting list to see their adrenal gland specialist, a much more experienced doctor. In any case, even if I see Dr. #1 she can consult with Dr #2, they all work in the same department. Seeing as how lyme disease will likely complicate the diagnosis, I feel in much better hands going to JH rather than a generic endo doc. Again, thanks for pointing me in that direction! From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 15:28:07 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Fri Sep 26 15:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] McCain Wins Debate Message-ID: SEVEN HOURS before the debate even begins, the RNC has issued an Internet ad that says McCain "won" the debate. If the Republicans are able to bend space and time like that, why didn't they use it to fix the financial crisis? http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html From dfmanno at mail.com Fri Sep 26 16:02:01 2008 From: dfmanno at mail.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Fri Sep 26 16:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Did anyone know about this trampling of the Constitution? (illegal search and seizure) References: Message-ID: In article , "Indigo" wrote: > D.F. Manno wrote: > > > Yes, if you encrypt the disks and Customs decides to search you, you > > will never see your laptop again if you don't give up the password. > > But what if you've gone to a foreign country to do business and you have > highly confidential proprietary data on your laptop concerning business > negotiations/contracts/specs? You might get fired if that info gets leaked, > but your laptop will be impounded if you don't give up the encryption code, > rendering it's contents useless, meaning a wasted business negotiation and a > possibility of a loss of sales. Surely there must be a better way of doing > this!? There's always Johnny Mnemonic. > Besides that, the NSA collects so much info that they can only process a > tiny percentage of it -- is anyone actually going to have the resources to > scan and analyze the contents of all those hard drives? This is Customs and the Border Patrol, not NSA. > And if you *were* a > terrorist, surely you'd be smart enough not to leave any incriminating info > on the HD while crossing the border, right? This has nothing to do with security and everything to do with lulling the public into a false sense of security and massively expanding government power over and intrusion into everyone's life. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 18:04:06 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Sep 26 18:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Ping Heidi - Thank You! References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbjces$f9f$1@news.spamcop.net... > Thanks for the Johns Hopkins link. I had searched my Blue Cross Blue > Shield website looking for endocrinologists, never thought about going > straight to the JH website to look for specialists. After wading thru > their convoluted website, I finally found the correct web pages. I have an > appointment with an endrocrinologist there on Oct 27th (so soon!), and I'm > on a waiting list to see their adrenal gland specialist, a much more > experienced doctor. In any case, even if I see Dr. #1 she can consult with > Dr #2, they all work in the same department. > > Seeing as how lyme disease will likely complicate the diagnosis, I feel in > much better hands going to JH rather than a generic endo doc. > > Again, thanks for pointing me in that direction! Sigh. You live there....do I have to think of everything? ;) That's good that it's that fast, see if you can put yourself on a cancellation list in case you can get in sooner. I am wondering if Lyme is going to be not so much an issue as the endocrine stuff, that can totally mess you up and steroids on top of all that even more. Make sure you bring ALL of your lab tests, MRI's, whatever with you, doctors don't communicate with each other, you have to give it to them in person. If you don't have all your labwork, start calling now for copies. Also write up a timeline of how things went, when dx'd, what treatments, etc. The more you give them and the less they hunt for the better off you're going to be. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 18:05:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Sep 26 18:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: "Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message news:gbi1jv$abu$1@news.spamcop.net... > As far as I'M concerned.. the only qualifications should be the ones > established in the US Constitution. If that isn't good enough for people > then it should be amended and updated. One of my requirments is that the VP be more intelligent, knowledgable and more articulate than my 7 year old nephew..... From me at privacy.net Fri Sep 26 18:25:51 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Sep 26 18:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message news:gbi1jv$abu$1@news.spamcop.net... > As far as I'M concerned.. the only qualifications should be the ones > established in the US Constitution. If that isn't good enough for people > then it should be amended and updated. Those are the minimum required to be elected and to server. The evaluation and selection is the responsibility of WeThePeople. To my mind WTP have been derelict in our responsibility in the past 7+ years From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 18:29:20 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Fri Sep 26 18:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > Chris F. Willoughby: >> As far as I'M concerned.. the only qualifications should be the ones >> established in the US Constitution. If that isn't good enough for people >> then it should be amended and updated. > > One of my requirments is that the VP be more intelligent, knowledgable and > more articulate than my 7 year old nephew..... Me, I would never vote for someone who top-posts. You know who I'm talkin' 'bout. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 19:50:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 26 19:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Ping Heidi - Thank You! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gbjm8o$bqo$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Sigh. You live there....do I have to think of everything? ;) That's good > that it's that fast, see if you can put yourself on a cancellation list in > case you can get in sooner. I am on the "waiting" list for the more experienced doctor. I am wondering if Lyme is going to be not so > much an issue as the endocrine stuff, that can totally mess you up and > steroids on top of all that even more. Yeah, with everything I've gone thru and taken (meds/supplements) over the last couple years it's going to be a puzzle, that's for sure. Make sure you bring ALL of your lab > tests, MRI's, whatever with you, doctors don't communicate with each > other, you have to give it to them in person. If you don't have all your > labwork, start calling now for copies. Also write up a timeline of how > things went, when dx'd, what treatments, etc. The more you give them and > the less they hunt for the better off you're going to be. > I discovered a health timeline excel file that I had written that covered all my issues from 1999 to Nov 2007, so I just need to fill out what's happened since then -- I've been keeping notes, so it won't be too hard, although writing up all the meds/supplements I've taken in the last two years will take some effort just from the sheer number of different things I've taken. I have my endocrine related blood test results from the last two years, will be faxing them to JH along with my "home made" medical history prior to my appointment. I also found out that I had a brain MRI done in Dec 2006 to rule out a diagnosis of MS, so I can take that along with me too (I had forgotten about that). The MRI report doesn't say anything about anything unusual, except there was a small cyst in my left sinus cavity. But except for adrenal gland problems I wasn't suffering from any other pituitary related issues at the time. Still, they'll probably want to do a new one in any case, along with a full blood work up. One good thing, IMO, is that the doc I'm going to see is female, I think she's probably more likely to listen to me instead of playing god like most of the male specialists I've dealt with in the past. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 19:52:11 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Sep 26 19:55:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Did anyone know about this trampling of the Constitution? (illegal search and seizure) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "D.F. Manno" wrote in message news:dfmanno-104D16.16020126092008@news.cesmail.net... > > There's always Johnny Mnemonic. Eh wot? > >> Besides that, the NSA collects so much info that they can only process a >> tiny percentage of it -- is anyone actually going to have the resources >> to >> scan and analyze the contents of all those hard drives? > > This is Customs and the Border Patrol, not NSA. So they're even LESS capable of analyzing what they find? > >> And if you *were* a >> terrorist, surely you'd be smart enough not to leave any incriminating >> info >> on the HD while crossing the border, right? > > This has nothing to do with security and everything to do with lulling > the public into a false sense of security If so, why was it done with such little fanfare? From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 23:17:15 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Fri Sep 26 23:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin Message-ID: Finally... even the hardcore Republican base can't keep up the facade any longer: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE= Excerpts: As we?ve seen and heard more from John McCain?s running mate, it is increasingly clear that Palin is a problem. Quick study or not, she doesn?t know enough about economics and foreign policy to make Americans comfortable with a President Palin should conditions warrant her promotion. ////////// It was fun while it lasted. Palin?s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League. No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I?ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I?ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted. Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage and there?s not much content there. Here?s but one example of many from her interview with Hannity: ?Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we?re talking about today. And that?s something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this.? When Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Obama?s numbers, Palin blustered wordily: ?I?m not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who?s more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who?s actually done it?? If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself. If Palin were a man, we?d all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she?s a woman ? and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket ? we are reluctant to say what is painfully true. What to do? McCain can?t repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP?s unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability. Barack Obama faces the same problem with Biden. Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first. Do it for your country. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 23:41:13 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Sep 26 23:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Even McLame's people are fed up with Palin Message-ID: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/report-mccain-aides-compl_n_129618.html The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless." From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Fri Sep 26 23:43:33 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Fri Sep 26 23:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Republicans Are Morons wrote: > Finally... even the hardcore Republican base can't keep up the facade > any longer Kathryn Jean Lopez, writing on the conservative National Review, says Palin stepping aside is "not a crazy suggestion" and that "something's gotta change." Tony Fabrizio, a GOP strategist, says Palin's recent CBS appearance isn't disqualifying but is certainly alarming. "You can't continue to have interviews like that and not take on water." From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 00:09:41 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 00:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbka56$pth$1@news.spamcop.net... > Republicans Are Morons wrote: >> Finally... even the hardcore Republican base can't keep up the facade any >> longer > > Kathryn Jean Lopez, writing on the conservative National Review, says > Palin stepping aside is "not a crazy suggestion" and that "something's > gotta change." > > Tony Fabrizio, a GOP strategist, says Palin's recent CBS appearance isn't > disqualifying but is certainly alarming. "You can't continue to have > interviews like that and not take on water." Please don't feed the trolls........they've been told to bugger off and are so pathetic they just can't leave...... From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 02:31:56 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Republicans Are Morons) Date: Sat Sep 27 02:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Post-Debate Polls Message-ID: Looks like Obama scored big with undecided/uncommitted voters, who will ultimately decide the election in November: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/debate-reviews-go-to-obam_n_129803.html http://mediacurves.com/ http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 10:16:54 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 10:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: McCain Wins Debate References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbjd47$l6g$1@news.spamcop.net... > SEVEN HOURS before the debate even begins, the RNC has issued an Internet > ad that says McCain "won" the debate. > > If the Republicans are able to bend space and time like that, why didn't > they use it to fix the financial crisis? > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html I wonder how he cannot be embarrassed about that - he didn't in fact win, according to most everyone except Guiliani, he was a surly old troll, who could not have been more condescending and insulting to Obama if he tried. I would like to think there is no way, after the spectacular clusterfuck that is McCaina and Palin, that Rove can machinate stealing this election, but I can't let myself get excited about Obama winning, the disappointment would be just too much. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 10:20:33 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 10:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Horseshit, McCain says Message-ID: about 4:30 in the video.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26909249#26909711 what a prince... From me at privacy.net Sat Sep 27 10:56:31 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Sep 27 11:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Post Turtle References: Message-ID: >From another group. While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher whose hand was caught in a gate while working with cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually, the topic got around to Sarah Palin and her bid to be a heartbeat away from being President. The old rancher said, "Well, ya know, Palin is a post turtle." Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was. The old rancher said, "When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle." The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain. "You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there, she doesn't know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with." Kinda sums it all up nicely, From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 12:24:44 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 12:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: >> Republicans Are Morons wrote: >>> Finally... even the hardcore Republican base can't keep up the facade any >>> longer >> Kathryn Jean Lopez, writing on the conservative National Review, says >> Palin stepping aside is "not a crazy suggestion" and that "something's >> gotta change." >> >> Tony Fabrizio, a GOP strategist, says Palin's recent CBS appearance isn't >> disqualifying but is certainly alarming. "You can't continue to have >> interviews like that and not take on water." > > Please don't feed the trolls........they've been told to bugger off and are > so pathetic they just can't leave...... Eh? I think you need a better clue about op RAM, Heidi. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 12:27:53 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 12:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gblmod$91r$1@news.spamcop.net... > Eh? I think you need a better clue about op RAM, Heidi. Eh no, I don't, I have all the clues I need, instantly recognizable to me..... FWIW I wasn't wrong last time either. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 12:36:42 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 12:40:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: >> Eh? I think you need a better clue about op RAM, Heidi. > > Eh no, I don't, I have all the clues I need, instantly recognizable to > me..... FWIW I wasn't wrong last time either. Well I think you're wrong. RAM is one of "us." And I'll respond to whomever I please, thank you very much. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 12:55:30 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:00:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gblner$bfd$1@news.spamcop.net... > Heidi wrote: >> Tim McGraw wrote: >>> Eh? I think you need a better clue about op RAM, Heidi. >> >> Eh no, I don't, I have all the clues I need, instantly recognizable to >> me..... FWIW I wasn't wrong last time either. > > Well I think you're wrong. RAM is one of "us." > > And I'll respond to whomever I please, thank you very much. Suit yourself. He WAS a regular here, but then he was asked by the owner of the servers to leave. Poor thing just can't stop trying to sneak in under other nicks, because he's so desperate for attention. His MO is instantly recognizable to me, seeing as I've been the target of his pathetic rage because I outed him last time and produced enough evidence to get him kicked out the door, but you just go on and have fun playing if you like. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 13:00:47 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: >> And I'll respond to whomever I please, thank you very much. > > Suit yourself. He WAS a regular here, but then he was asked by the owner of > the servers to leave. Poor thing just can't stop trying to sneak in under > other nicks, because he's so desperate for attention. His MO is instantly > recognizable to me, seeing as I've been the target of his pathetic rage > because I outed him last time and produced enough evidence to get him kicked > out the door Wrong on so many counts. > but you just go on and have fun playing if you like. How magnanimous of you. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 13:44:55 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: >> Wrong on so many counts. > Just curious, but would you care to elaborate on those? No. > Yeah, yeah, likely enough and circumstantial evidence and so on. I wouldn't convict on what I've seen, but it is WAY suspect and It seems you have elaborated enough. > I'm keeping a low profile, here. Since when? > Actually, I'd like to see Heidi prove some of her allegations, too. Ditto. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 13:45:59 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B2689BAE21E4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Just curious, but would you care to elaborate on those? Seems to me that > it's likely enough. Yeah, yeah, likely enough and circumstantial evidence > and so on. I wouldn't convict on what I've seen, but it is WAY suspect > and > I'm keeping a low profile, here. > > Actually, I'd like to see Heidi prove some of her allegations, too. But, > hey, whatever. It's all good, I guess. If I could be arsed spending the time, I probably could, but 1) I know what I know, and 2) I can't be bothered entertaining the fool, he will eventually out himself anyway, he always does. Then he'll send all sorts of private emails proclaming his innocence. Killfiles are way easier. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 13:51:48 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B268BD88B2F2TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > So, how about this asking for the last 4 digits of your social security > number bs? When placing Visa orders over the phone I've been getting this > - the retailer will ask then want to put me on the line with my bank. > They > will then supposedly ask me a bunch of questions to verify my identity. > > Comments: > - the retailer has no right to this information. Like, hello. > - the bank tied to the account in question doesn't have answers to these > questions - I've never been through the verification process with them. > So... The whole exercise is pointless anyway. > > I can't fathom that it's acceptable in our society for this shit to go on. > Why don't we have any laws protecting us from these jerks? Come to think > of it, why don't we have laws protecting our privacy? Other countries, > the > civilized ones, have pretty strong controls. We have the shrub. Great. I've never been asked for my social by a retailer, although I question them asking on the phone about the three digit security number, if a thief had the card, they'd have that number anyway. Every time someone asks me for mine (other than a medical thing, and now they will give you another ID other than your social) I say "I don't give it out". From MikeE at ster.invalid Sat Sep 27 14:36:29 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sat Sep 27 14:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > So, how about this asking for the last 4 digits of your social security > number bs? When placing Visa orders over the phone I've been getting > this - the retailer will ask then want to put me on the line with my > bank. They will then supposedly ask me a bunch of questions to verify > my identity. I'm trying to imagine any set of conditions under which I would comply with any of that. I can't imagine such. If I wanted to transact with a merchant, they would either accept my plastic CC and its security code, or we wouldn't be doing business. I'm the customer -- they are spending a lot of money trying to get me to buy something from them. We'll be doing that in a normal way -- not some screwball way. The merchant has a higher obligation to be/prove they are a legitimate merchant than I have to prove I am a legitimate holder of the account. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 15:51:03 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 15:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: >> Charles wrote: >>> I'm keeping a low profile, here. >> Since when? > Is this a trick question??? Is that a trick answer??? From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 18:09:23 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 18:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Horseshit, McCain says In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > about 4:30 in the video.... > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26909249#26909711 > what a prince... The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, who first reported this, has removed his original post and now he's not so sure. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/horseshit.html Whether McGrumpy said "horseshit" or "course you can," one thing is for sure: the audience reacts immediately after he says it. Why doesn't Sullivan ask someone who was there? Are there alternative camera views available? From joegill at removethis Sat Sep 27 19:19:24 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sat Sep 27 19:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B268BD88B2F2TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > So, how about this asking for the last 4 digits of your social security > number bs? When placing Visa orders over the phone I've been getting this > - the retailer will ask then want to put me on the line with my bank. > They > will then supposedly ask me a bunch of questions to verify my identity. > > Comments: > - the retailer has no right to this information. Like, hello. > - the bank tied to the account in question doesn't have answers to these > questions - I've never been through the verification process with them. > So... The whole exercise is pointless anyway. > > I can't fathom that it's acceptable in our society for this shit to go on. > Why don't we have any laws protecting us from these jerks? Come to think > of it, why don't we have laws protecting our privacy? Other countries, > the > civilized ones, have pretty strong controls. We have the shrub. Great. There are a couple of things in play here, and it is all under 'Fraud Control' by the cards. 1) First pf all, they (card companies look at patterns)... A) Haven't bought anything on internet or over phone, and then all of a sudden do. BAM.. they will be asking all sorts of questions! B) Say you were in NY and did not have a 'out of state' driving pattern... Get gas in PA, probably no problem... third stop in OH.. BAM card will be declined and you will have to call C) Also, making purchases online say over $50... and anyone of these does not match...Name as on card, address exactly as statement, phone number matching on file... again... bam.. D) As for the last 4 of the soc.... I have had that and zip code requested.... E) I have gone into a department store, and this is BEFORE 2001... Sears... may a VISA purchase in one department for Washer/dryer... Went over to the other department for Refrigerator/Stove... red light lit up and I was on the phone with VISA..asking strange questions... like address when I FIRST took out the card.... last 3 payments,, etc etc etc 2) They also look at merchant track records.. If you are dealing with a merchant with a lot of 'chargebacks' be prepared for more info. 3) My rules are this now.... A) When buying online make sure all the info matches the account. B) When making 'out of pattern' purchases, alert the card company first C) When traveling, again alert the card company... D) Not always perfect, but it usually works... My last problem was that I purchased 2 laptops from Dell, each went through as a separate charge... They initially denied BOTH as Fraud, even though I had called in...But it was immediately fixed. 4) I don't attribute the recent tightening on these cards on anything more than the repercussions of the TJM (TJ Maxx) credit card debacle. What is really SAD, is that VISA and MC were not left holding the bag, but rather the card issuers. Some people say 'good for them, the big banks deserve it'...but alas many small community banks and credit unions were 'burned' BIG TIME. In addition there were a couple other massive breaches. >From what I understand, a 'credit card number and name' combination is selling for less that $.80 is some dark areas of the net. I combination of credit card, CCV2 value from the back, Name and address are going for under $10. From joegill at removethis Sat Sep 27 19:21:36 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sat Sep 27 19:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Banks are crazy References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B2663F924BF6TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > The bank's online prequalifier... Won't qualify me for the loan! Even if > I drop $100k off of the house price it still won't qualify me! Yet the > bank will loan me the money! This is completely and totally insane! > I would imagine it is there way of saying "we are not accepting online prequalification", without actually saying it. Saying it in these times could send the wrong message. From joegill at removethis Sat Sep 27 19:24:06 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Sat Sep 27 19:25:06 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Post-Debate Polls References: Message-ID: "Republicans Are Morons" wrote in message news:gbkk18$mqh$1@news.spamcop.net... > Looks like Obama scored big with undecided/uncommitted voters, who will > ultimately decide the election in November: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/debate-reviews-go-to-obam_n_129803.html > http://mediacurves.com/ > http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml Yes.. but does it really matter??? By that I mean, we are really down to about 5 states that matter....It's the numbers there that matter... You have to see how Obama or McCain did in those.. .the other states really aren't in play.. they appear to be solidly in one camp or the other. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 20:25:22 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sat Sep 27 20:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > Tim McGraw wrote: >> Charles wrote: >>> Is this a trick question??? >> Is that a trick answer??? > Is today Tuesday? Now THAT, sir, is a trick question, because you know very well that it is. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 21:03:27 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 27 21:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gblrrk$1h4$1@news.spamcop.net... > I've never been asked for my social by a retailer, although I question > them asking on the phone about the three digit security number, if a thief > had the card, they'd have that number anyway. Not if they grabbed the number in a restaurant, for instance......or found your CC statement in the trash. You have to have the actual card to know that number. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 21:07:32 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 27 21:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B26CA34512E3TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Regardless, I'm not going to give some fucking retailer my personal info > so that he can pass it on to the bank. I suppose I'd be "happy" (not > really a good word for the feeling, but whatever) to prove to the bank > that I'm me, but some random fucknig retailer gets all of this personal > and private info too? I DO NOT THINK SO. What secrets, exactly, do you think they can expose with the last 4 digits of your SS #? Or are you just pissed about the "invasion of privacy"? From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 21:31:00 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 27 21:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker withdraws support for Palin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B26D0B083FA9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Ah. Must be election day already. Did I mention that I lose a bet if > Obama wins? A keg of some absolutely amazing beer... Kind of a bummer, I > guess, but a good bet to lose, if I had to pick one, you know? You're saying you'd rather have McLaim/Palin win than win a keg of beer?!? From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Sep 27 21:39:07 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Sep 27 21:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Banks are crazy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B25DE80CE82TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > So, uh. I got preapproved at 3 different banks. Cool, huh? And they > did this... You just can't imagine. The DTI will be 43%. If that isn't > just insane, I don't know what is. They're just going to give it to me > like that - and I'm not really sure that I can pay it, you know? And > they're doing this in a time that is tough for getting mortgages? Like, > what? Seriously? This is hard? Dang. I can't even imagine what it > would be like if it were easy! Anyway... The cool thing is that I can > lock in at 5.95%! With no closing costs! It probably helps that we have > some pretty good credit scores (750ish and 795ish) and 20% down. But > still... They're crazy to loan us the money! I'm not kidding! How on > earth do they expect me to EAT??? Those are so darn close to the loan terms that got so many people in trouble....I can't believe you got that offer in these crazy days of tight credit. A DTI of 43% is a big red flag, although your 20% down is an offsetting factor (although not enough for me to make the loan if *I* were in charge!). That said, back in 1993 I got an FHA mortgage with about the same DTI and a 3% down payment, but my credit score was damn near perfect (still is, 807 last time I checked). Seems to me that the mortgage lenders haven't learned a damn thing, maybe even be encouraged by the fed bailout (that is now falling apart at the seams). From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 00:12:32 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 00:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] RECALL: Mr Brown coffee, White Rabbit candy References: Message-ID: http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01891.html FDA Statement FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Statement September 26, 2008 Media Inquiries: Stephanie Kwisnek, 301-827-0955 Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA FDA Updates Health Information Advisory on Melamine Contamination The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is alerting consumers that seven Mr. Brown instant coffee and milk tea products are being recalled by the Taiwanese company, King Car Food Industrial Co. Ltd., due to possible contamination with melamine. King Car Food Industrial Co. used a non-dairy creamer manufactured by Shandong Duqing Inc., China, which was found to be contaminated with melamine. The recalled products are: * Mr. Brown Mandheling Blend Instant Coffee (3-in-1) * Mr. Brown Arabica Instant Coffee (3-in-1) * Mr. Brown Blue Mountain Blend Instant Coffee (3-in-1) * Mr. Brown Caramel Macchiato Instant Coffee (3-in-1) * Mr. Brown French Vanilla Instant Coffee (3-in-1) * Mr. Brown Mandhling Blend instant Coffee (2-in-1) * Mr. Brown Milk Tea (3-in-1) The FDA recommends that consumers not consume any of the above Mr. Brown instant coffee and milk tea products. The FDA also recommends that retailers and foodservice operators remove the products from sale or service. As of September 25, 2008, the FDA testing of milk based products imported into the United States from China has not found melamine contamination. The FDA is working with regulatory agencies in other countries. The New Zealand Food Safety Authority reports that its testing of White Rabbit Creamy Candies has shown melamine contamination at high levels. In light of the widespread contamination of milk and milk-based products in China and the New Zealand Food Safety Authority’s finding, the FDA recommends that consumers not eat White Rabbit Creamy Candy and that retailers and foodservice operations remove the product from sale or service. To date, the FDA is not aware of any illnesses in the United States stemming from consumption of either White Rabbit Creamy Candy or the Mr. Brown instant coffee and milk tea products. Individuals who have experienced any health problems after consuming either White Rabbit Creamy Candy or any of the identified Mr. Brown coffee and tea products are advised to contact their health care professional. Background On September 12, 2008, in light of reports from China of melamine contaminated infant formula, the FDA issued a Health Information Advisory to assure the American public that there is no known threat of contamination in infant formula manufactured by companies that have met the requirements to sell such products in the United States. That advisory also warned members of Chinese communities in the United States that infant formula manufactured in China, possibly available for purchase at Asian markets, could pose a risk to infants. The FDA had contacted the companies who manufacture infant formula for distribution in the United States and received, from the companies, information that they are not importing formula or sourcing milk-based materials from China. At the same time, the FDA—in conjunction with state and local officials —began a nation-wide investigation to check Asian markets for Chinese manufactured infant formula that may have been brought into the United States. In particular, this effort focused on areas of the country with large Chinese communities, such as Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and New York. To date, investigators have visited more than 1,400 retail markets and have not found Chinese infant formula present on shelves in these markets. The FDA also advises consumers not to purchase infant formula manufactured in China from Internet sites or from other sources. The FDA has taken, and will continue to take, proactive measures to help ensure the safety of the American food supply. In conjunction with state and local officials, the FDA will continue to check Asian markets for food items that are imported from China and that could contain a significant amount of milk or milk proteins. In addition, the FDA has broadened its domestic and import sampling and testing of milk-derived ingredients and finished food products containing milk, such as candies, desserts, and beverages that could contain these ingredients from Chinese sources. Milk-derived ingredients include whole milk powder, non-fat milk powder, whey powder, lactose powder, and casein. In addition to state and local governments, the FDA is working in close cooperation with Customs and Border Protection within the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Department of Agriculture, other federal agencies, and foreign governments. # Additional Information QFCO, Inc. Recalls White Rabbit Candy Because of Possible Health Risk (Sept. 26, 2008) http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/qfco09_08.html From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 00:27:58 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 00:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B26E27CED2B5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... | No way it was me! It was "Indigo" ! | | > What secrets, exactly, do you think they can expose with the last 4 | > digits of your SS #? Or are you just pissed about the "invasion of | > privacy"? | | I'm POd about the privacy issue and 4 numbers is that much closer to the | whole thing, eh? Besides, my bank asks for that as proof of identity when | in the drive through. So... Any moron could claim to be me, no? Anyone with those 4 digits your age and the four or five state zone you were born can guess your SSN with 4 or 5 tries usually less. From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 07:44:57 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Sun Sep 28 07:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Post Turtle References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gblhk4$q4m$1@news.spamcop.net... > From another group. >..... I remember reading about "Post Turtles" in an article by Leon Hale of the Houston Chronicle, some time back. In fact if you leave out the sentences with Palin, the post is probably verbatim, except for the gender of the turtle. I don't know when I read the article, could have been any time since 1980. From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 12:07:15 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 12:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Just an observation. Message-ID: I'm in far north Dallas (a republican enclave in a republican enclave). On the way to MickyD's yesterday morning (Saturday Sept 27th) my grand daughters noticed that many of the McCain yard signs were stuck in the trash bins. The youngest (8 y.o.) wanted to know if the election was over? Her aunt ( a one time hard core 'Pub) commented a bit sadly and under her breath 'not officially ...' Makes me wonder how the yard sign survey is playing out in the rest of the country? Might be interesting to check with the garbage collectors and get their take (literally) From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 12:12:45 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 12:15:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Post Turtle References: Message-ID: "bar0" | | I remember reading about "Post Turtles" in an article by Leon Hale of the | Houston Chronicle, some time back. In fact if you leave out the sentences | with Palin, the post is probably verbatim, except for the gender of the | turtle. | | I don't know when I read the article, could have been any time since 1980. I can remember similar 'anecdote's from as far back as the 50's. not all dealing with politics. Paling and her failure to talk reminds me of the story 'bout the tar baby. Everybody beats up on 'her' but she still don't say nothin' The story falls apart as McCain is not the mental equal of Ber Fox. From MikeE at ster.invalid Sun Sep 28 12:26:14 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sun Sep 28 12:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > McCain yard signs were stuck in the > trash bins. I don't know how it works in TX, but in CA there are very specific laws about the legal and illegal putting up and the legal and illegal taking down of campaign signs. If there are such laws in TX, several possibilities exist: those were illegally posted (and hence not illegally removed), they were/ had been/ legally posted and illegally removed. ... which has nothing to do with your curiosity about the significance of counting republican or democrat campaign signs which have been removed/disposed legally or illegally. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 12:50:34 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 13:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gbob6s$65e$1@news.spamcop.net... | Frog Prince wrote: | | > McCain yard signs were stuck in the | > trash bins. | | I don't know how it works in TX, but in CA there are very specific laws | about the legal and illegal putting up and the legal and illegal taking | down of campaign signs. | | If there are such laws in TX, several possibilities exist: those were | illegally posted (and hence not illegally removed), they were/ had been/ | legally posted and illegally removed. | | ... which has nothing to do with your curiosity about the significance of | counting republican or democrat campaign signs which have been | removed/disposed legally or illegally. | Texas has a very specific law regarding political yards signs that trumps even HOA rules as a few HOA 'police' discover every year. The law is so strong that about the only thing the law does not openly permit is the use of firearms in the defense. In this area there are no HOA rules and the neighbors are not the type that resort to vandalize to make a political point. Like I said I missed the significance completely and only came to notice after the youngest grand daughter raised the question. I personally find it interesting as most in this area are much like my daughter, hard core Publicans. For this bunch to pull down yard signs so soon after a published debate must be some indication of a serious shift of thinking. From MikeE at ster.invalid Sun Sep 28 14:28:11 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sun Sep 28 14:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > I personally find it interesting as most in this area are much like my > daughter, hard core Publicans. For this bunch to pull down yard signs > so soon after a published debate must be some indication of a serious > shift of thinking. I'm thinking someone stuck some posters in the wrong place and someone else took them down, unrelated to party affiliation of the de-poster. Alternatively, I'm thinking that someone stuck some posters not in the wrong place, and someone else took them down, related to party affiliation/ likes-dislikes/ of the de-poster. The gist I'm hearing is that the vox populi and the pundits mostly found the Ob-Mc debate pretty even -- I'm doubting if that will be the case in Biden-Palin. You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down their own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 16:32:06 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 16:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" | | > I personally find it interesting as most in this area are much like my | > daughter, hard core Publicans. For this bunch to pull down yard signs | > so soon after a published debate must be some indication of a serious | > shift of thinking. | | I'm thinking someone stuck some posters in the wrong place and someone | else took them down, unrelated to party affiliation of the de-poster. | | Alternatively, I'm thinking that someone stuck some posters not in the | wrong place, and someone else took them down, related to party | affiliation/ likes-dislikes/ of the de-poster. | | The gist I'm hearing is that the vox populi and the pundits mostly found | the Ob-Mc debate pretty even -- I'm doubting if that will be the case in | Biden-Palin. | | You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down their | own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. Bad assumption. I know what was in their yards the day and week before. Regardless if the take down was not of their choice it's a simple matter to retrieve the sign and remount. As of this morning hasn't happened. From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 17:19:19 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sun Sep 28 17:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down their > own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. One of my best friends in the world, who lives in very conservative Johnson County Kansas, sent me this yesterday: > There is a guy up the street -- the first "McCain/Palin" sign I saw -- who now has an Obama sign in his yard, and the McCain sign is gone. > > I assumed at first that this was a prank -- someone switched his signs. But it's been up all day. And cars have come and gone all day, so it's not that they're out of town. From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 17:20:47 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Sun Sep 28 17:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gboscn$4vd$1@news.spamcop.net... > Mike Easter wrote: >> You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down their >> own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. > > One of my best friends in the world, who lives in very conservative > Johnson County Kansas, sent me this yesterday: > >> There is a guy up the street -- the first "McCain/Palin" sign I saw -- >> who now has an Obama sign in his yard, and the McCain sign is gone. >> >> I assumed at first that this was a prank -- someone switched his signs. >> But it's been up all day. And cars have come and gone all day, so it's >> not that they're out of town. Wierd, I didn't hear anything in the debate that would have made me favour one over the other. From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 17:29:44 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 17:35:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gbosfg$5ji$1@news.spamcop.net... | | "Tim McGraw" wrote in message | news:gboscn$4vd$1@news.spamcop.net... | > Mike Easter wrote: | >> You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down their | >> own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. | > | > One of my best friends in the world, who lives in very conservative | > Johnson County Kansas, sent me this yesterday: | > | >> There is a guy up the street -- the first "McCain/Palin" sign I saw -- | >> who now has an Obama sign in his yard, and the McCain sign is gone. | >> | >> I assumed at first that this was a prank -- someone switched his signs. | >> But it's been up all day. And cars have come and gone all day, so it's | >> not that they're out of town. | | Wierd, I didn't hear anything in the debate that would have made me favour | one over the other. What I was able to watch hit me the same way. Ya think the 'Pubs saw or perhaps didn't see something that's not apparent to others? From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 18:08:11 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gbot14$84j$1@news.spamcop.net... > > What I was able to watch hit me the same way. Ya think the 'Pubs saw or > perhaps didn't see something that's not apparent to others? Yeah, they probably saw Sarah Palin's cringeworthy interview and decided it wasn't ever going to happen.......if the debate actually does happen on the 2nd, I'd predict a lot more signs coming down..... From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 18:20:27 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > Ya think the 'Pubs saw or perhaps didn't see something that's not apparent to others? Good question. Tangentially related The Stockton Record, one of the reddest papers in California's ruby red central valley, endorses it's first Democratic presidential candidate in 72 years: "The Choice Is Clear" http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080928/A_OPINION01/809280301/-1/A_OPINION From avoozl at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 18:48:42 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbj0h2$f5q$1@news.spamcop.net... > Cletus Delroy Spuckler for Prez! Who? From avoozl at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 18:51:32 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:55:05 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: "Heidi" wrote in message news:gbjmb3$c1k$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message > news:gbi1jv$abu$1@news.spamcop.net... >> As far as I'M concerned.. the only qualifications should be the ones >> established in the US Constitution. If that isn't good enough for people >> then it should be amended and updated. > > One of my requirments is that the VP be more intelligent, knowledgable and > more articulate than my 7 year old nephew..... Sure.. and one would presume anyone that fits the other requirements would meet that standard. :) From avoozl at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 18:52:43 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:55:07 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Is Palin qualified? References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gbjnia$has$1@news.spamcop.net... > Those are the minimum required to be elected and to server. > > The evaluation and selection is the responsibility of WeThePeople. To my > mind WTP have been derelict in our responsibility in the past 7+ years > > > Right. However, I think you see my point. Wether it's the constitution or WTP.. things aren't quite like they should be. From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 19:06:48 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 28 19:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] As NH goes, Message-ID: so goes the nation. We can only hope.... http://www.sentinelsource.com/articles/2008/09/27/opinion/sentinel_editorial/free/id_324828.txt From avoozl at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 19:27:05 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sun Sep 28 19:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: I'm sorry.. but the valley is definitely NOT red all over. Granted, it's probably moreso than LA or SF.. but that's not saying much. Chris "Tim McGraw" wrote in message news:gbovvc$i3o$1@news.spamcop.net... > Good question. > > Tangentially related The Stockton Record, one of the reddest papers in > California's ruby red central valley, endorses it's first Democratic > presidential candidate in 72 years: > > "The Choice Is Clear" > http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080928/A_OPINION01/809280301/-1/A_OPINION From MikeE at ster.invalid Sun Sep 28 19:51:40 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sun Sep 28 19:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Mike Easter" >> I'm thinking someone stuck some posters in the wrong place and someone >> else took them down, unrelated to party affiliation of the de-poster. >> You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down >> their own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. > Bad assumption. I know what was in their yards the day and week before. If I'm understanding this, in the beginning you were relating an anecdote about seeing McCain posters in a dumpster, now you are implying an untold anecdote/ reference/ allusion/ about people removing unwanted posters from their yards. I would remove either party's posters from my yard regardless of my party attitudes -- which are fundamentally that a lot of representatives of both major political parties, as well as the minor ones, suck. > Regardless if the take down was not of their choice it's a simple > matter to retrieve the sign and remount. As of this morning hasn't > happened. I'm not grokking your point whatsoever. Maybe you should just blurt out directly what you are trying to say or imply. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From me at privacy.net Sun Sep 28 20:28:33 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Sep 28 20:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" | | >> I'm thinking someone stuck some posters in the wrong place and someone | >> else took them down, unrelated to party affiliation of the de-poster. | | >> You are delusional if you are thinking a McCain supporter took down | >> their own McCain signs because of their view of the debate. | | > Bad assumption. I know what was in their yards the day and week before. | | If I'm understanding this, in the beginning you were relating an anecdote | about seeing McCain posters in a dumpster, now you are implying an untold | anecdote/ reference/ allusion/ about people removing unwanted posters from | their yards. I would remove either party's posters from my yard | regardless of my party attitudes -- which are fundamentally that a lot of | representatives of both major political parties, as well as the minor | ones, suck. Ah I see the confusion. This was in reference to the trash cans that each home has. Typically kept near the house until the night before pick up (typically a week day morning) when they are moved to the street for collection. Around here dumpsters are use only for appartments. In fact the green collection containers (a bit like large green yard carts http://bbsnews.net/images/trashcan.jpg ) are the only containers permitted under local law as they are designed for mechnical pick up by the trash trucks. (can be picked up manually but again are designed to match the trucks) | > Regardless if the take down was not of their choice it's a simple | > matter to retrieve the sign and remount. As of this morning hasn't | > happened. | | I'm not grokking your point whatsoever. Maybe you should just blurt out | directly what you are trying to say or imply. In this area no one puts anything in another' trash container. Just not done. Likewise folk don't mess with other's lawns or what's on them. (the occasional drive by parking of pink flamagos or TP-ing excepted) The signifiance is that the residant took signs that they had on their lawns and put their own signs in their own trash. Clear now? From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Sep 28 21:48:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Sun Sep 28 21:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: As NH goes, References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B27D68245D83TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Heidi" ! > >> so goes the nation. We can only hope.... >> http://www.sentinelsource.com/articles/2008/09/27/opinion/sentinel_edit >> orial/free/id_324828.txt > > "We're taking the day off to think about the implications of the bailout." > That's the nation? Um. What? Didn't you think that was a good editorial? From MikeE at ster.invalid Sun Sep 28 23:17:52 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sun Sep 28 23:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Mike Easter" >> I'm not grokking your point whatsoever. Maybe you should just blurt >> out directly what you are trying to say or imply. > > In this area no one puts anything in another' trash container. Just not > done. Likewise folk don't mess with other's lawns or what's on them. > (the occasional drive by parking of pink flamagos or TP-ing excepted) > > The signifiance is that the residant took signs that they had on their > lawns and put their own signs in their own trash. > > Clear now? No. I see/hear an/your observation. You saw some McCain posters in someone's (own) trash into which it is unlikely someone else would throw trash. (Although I have on rare occasions thrown away my trash into my neighbor's official city trash pickup container because I had so little (a small plastic bag) it wasn't worth putting out my own official 96 gallon container and their's was already out.) You saw the McCain posters in someone's own trash container and apparently you also had observed that they had previously had McCain posters on their yard earlier which for some reason you assumed that they had posted on their own lawns. I've never seen such a behavior and so that seems highly unlikely to me. There is no one in my neighborhood who has any posters for either candidate stuck on their lawns; and in other neighborhoods in which I observe posters stuck it is my opinion that outside/ alien/ foreign/ pastisan posters come along and plant the posters willy-nilly on every spot they want to -- IMO the appearance of a partisan poster on a lawn has nothing to do with the partisan politics of the lawn owner. It seems to me that you are imagining that someone posted partisan posters on their /own/ lawn, then listened to the ObMc debate and somehow were so turned off by the effect/result that they abruptly switched alliances and immediately went outside and pulled up their partisan posters and threw them into their own trash. If my interpretation of your interpretation is accurate, then I still maintain that you are incorrect. I won't be so harsh as to say delusional. Well, maybe I will. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 29 00:28:22 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 29 00:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter | I see/hear an/your observation. You saw some McCain posters in someone's | (own) trash into which it is unlikely someone else would throw trash. | (Although I have on rare occasions thrown away my trash into my neighbor's | official city trash pickup container because I had so little (a small | plastic bag) it wasn't worth putting out my own official 96 gallon | container and their's was already out.) | | You saw the McCain posters in someone's own trash container and apparently | you also had observed that they had previously had McCain posters on their | yard earlier which for some reason you assumed that they had posted on | their own lawns. I've never seen such a behavior and so that seems highly | unlikely to me. There is no one in my neighborhood who has any posters | for either candidate stuck on their lawns; and in other neighborhoods in | which I observe posters stuck it is my opinion that outside/ alien/ | foreign/ pastisan posters come along and plant the posters willy-nilly on | every spot they want to -- IMO the appearance of a partisan poster on a | lawn has nothing to do with the partisan politics of the lawn owner. | | It seems to me that you are imagining that someone posted partisan posters | on their /own/ lawn, then listened to the ObMc debate and somehow were so | turned off by the effect/result that they abruptly switched alliances and | immediately went outside and pulled up their partisan posters and threw | them into their own trash. | | If my interpretation of your interpretation is accurate, then I still | maintain that you are incorrect. I won't be so harsh as to say | delusional. Well, maybe I will. It's an observation nothing more nothing less but to humor you I'll check with them the next time we speak but then again I may not. I don't really care one way or the other about the determination of their actions now or in Nov. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 10:46:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 29 10:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] ROFL Message-ID: http://www.boingboing.net/images/x_2008/putinrearshishead.jpg From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 29 11:19:14 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 29 11:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] More on Palin References: <48DFD407.6050402@invalid.com> Message-ID: The AP has done a little investigating: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080928/ap_on_el_pr/palin_ethics In Palin's defense those activities though questionable at arms length are not uncommon in small towns. Likey not uncommon in large cites as well just better managed. http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/rally.asp From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 29 12:10:00 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 29 12:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Mike Easter >> If my interpretation of your interpretation is accurate, then I still >> maintain that you are incorrect. > It's an observation nothing more nothing less but to humor you I'll > check with them the next time we speak but then again I may not. I > don't really care one way or the other about the determination of their > actions now or in Nov. I don't know whether to be amused/bemused or chagrined that not only almost all of my republican and democrat friends but also those who post here seem to see the world thru' red or blue colored glasses. I think I'm disappointed in your/such perception. Both of those/our parties and their/our elected representatives have all kinds of things wrong with them. How you can buy into/ accept/ a particular political party's perception/view is beyond me when it is often so twisted. It seems that in doing so you become so absorbed in your particular partisan media's/ bloggers'/ columnists'/ perspective of the other party and its foibles and weaknesses that you can't make your own judgments based on a broader nonpartisan opinion. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 29 12:29:43 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 29 12:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Paul? Bummer. References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > So, Paul Newman bought it, huh? Well, shucks. If I were 83 years old being eaten up by lung cancer for the past couple of years, I would be ready to die too. Most likely I would have rather died sooner. > Maybe we should all > watch Butch and Sundance to commemorate his life. One of the obit pages I saw had a whole bunch/ gallery/ of still shots from his movies. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 15:41:04 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 15:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] OHMIGOD (again!) Message-ID: The House just rejected the $700 billion bailout plan and the Dow Jones is down almost 700 points.....ok, this is definitely worse than the last time I posted about a historically high DJI collapse a few short weeks ago....ignoring 1929, today will end up as the second biggest one day % loss in history, trailing only the "Black Monday" collapse in 1987, when it fell an incredible 22.61%..... From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Sep 29 16:19:42 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Sep 29 16:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > The House just rejected the $700 billion bailout plan Such a hastily crafted and radical bill is highly likely to be flawed in too many dangerous ways. Perhaps the legislature and administration and regulatory bodies and bureaucracies should have been working on getting themselves straightened out a long long time ago, instead of all of a sudden 'before the market opens Monday' - or the eastern markets open - or any such. > and the Dow Jones > is down almost 700 points..... That's not surprising, given the current economic conditions. I see 10365 -777 Maybe some more tomorrow. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 18:06:42 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 29 18:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbrb0f$eo6$1@news.spamcop.net... > The House just rejected the $700 billion bailout plan and the Dow Jones is > down almost 700 points.....ok, this is definitely worse than the last time > I posted about a historically high DJI collapse a few short weeks > ago....ignoring 1929, today will end up as the second biggest one day % > loss in history, trailing only the "Black Monday" collapse in 1987, when > it fell an incredible 22.61%..... For once I actually agree with some of the R's (I know, don't faint) who didn't like the idea of giving Wall Street a pass for their own greed, except I don't agree with their whining about Pelosi - this was another fear campaign like the Iraq war, and another gift for Bush's buddies. Good thing some of the R's are worried about re-election, maybe this time they'll work FOR the people who elected them and are losing their homes. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 18:09:17 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 29 18:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] And in a predictable yet inexplicable way, Message-ID: McCain blames Obama for the failure. Scuse me....who rolled into Washington like Mighty Mouse "Here I Come to Save the DAY!", and did fuck all? And that's Obama's fault? This guy is senile as all hell. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 19:14:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Sep 29 19:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Paul? Bummer. References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B287BDF028F2TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > So, Paul Newman bought it, huh? Well, shucks. Maybe we should all watch > Butch and Sundance to commemorate his life. *Sniffle* :( From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 19:21:34 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Mon Sep 29 19:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Wall Street Haikus Message-ID: Shameless Senators Make Oversight Committee An oxymoron. http://www.insidebayarea.com/bay-area-living/ci_10570276 From me at privacy.net Mon Sep 29 21:21:39 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Sep 29 21:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbrb0f$eo6$1@news.spamcop.net... | The House just rejected the $700 billion bailout plan and the Dow Jones is | down almost 700 points.....ok, this is definitely worse than the last time I | posted about a historically high DJI collapse a few short weeks | ago....ignoring 1929, today will end up as the second biggest one day % loss | in history, trailing only the "Black Monday" collapse in 1987, when it fell | an incredible 22.61%..... Wall street tried to cash the reality check ... and it bounced. Local news is all up in the air with both Texas Republican Congress critters and their Democratic ridge runners buddies trying to take credit for their no vote or in the case of the Democrats smooth talk they way out of their yes votes. According to the news there was a big WAVE of 'stop this sh|t' FAXES to Washington this weekend over the matter. Don't recall where I read/heard it but one of the super grades in Washington said the $700B was a low ball number by a factor of 3. My take is folk are better prepared to take their licks now and get it over with than to put up with what's going on in DC now. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 21:40:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 21:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Paul? Bummer. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B287BDF028F2TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > So, Paul Newman bought it, huh? Well, shucks. Maybe we should all watch > Butch and Sundance to commemorate his life. Yeah, big bummer. He was one of my all-time favorite guys. Besides being a great actor, he was one helluva race car driver too -- he was part of the team that won the 24 Hours of LeMans race back when he was an unbelievable 70 years old! That is beyond amazing, the physical punishment you take in a race car would have most of us begging for mercy within 5-10 minutes, no kidding. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 22:38:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 22:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gbrd8i$od3$1@news.spamcop.net... > > That's not surprising, given the current economic conditions. > > I see 10365 -777 > > Maybe some more tomorrow. > I sure hope is doesn't get much worse, but I think that hope is in vain.....we're really going to go into a depression, I'm afraid. I didn't like at least part of that bill anyway, it gave unlimited power to the guy in charge of the money, no questions asked or allowed. Too much power in the hands of one person without any oversight or ways to stop him from doing whatever he wanted. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 22:52:50 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 22:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Just an observation. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gboibg$1ub$1@news.spamcop.net... > > The gist I'm hearing is that the vox populi and the pundits mostly found > the Ob-Mc debate pretty even I found the brief moments I watched it to be incredibly boring and lacking of any conviction or "news". Just recall that the guy running the debate kept telling McCain and Obama to talk to each other instead of the camera, which both were incapable of doing. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 23:06:30 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 23:10:06 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Banks are crazy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B26E32D45E69TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > Well, hey, we have awesome credit, too. Hello! And in '93? Still have > that house? I mean, it would be worth 3-4 times what you paid for it, no? Yep, still in the same house. It *was* worth almost 3x what I payed for it at the last real estate tax assesment, but right now I doubt it's worth anywhere near as much. Still, because of the county I live in and the type of house it is (not a McMansion), it's value likely hasn't taken a huge hit like a lot of areas around the country. I got my tax assesment details online, and my property (land) value totally dwarfed the value of my house! Unbelievable what a mere 1/5 acre of land costs around here. > Anyway, yes, banks are crazy. I really don't know why they're lending us > this much. I hope that we find a way to make it all work out for us! Well, good luck to ya if you can swing the payments! From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 23:09:47 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 23:10:07 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B26E27CED2B5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Indigo" ! > >> What secrets, exactly, do you think they can expose with the last 4 >> digits of your SS #? Or are you just pissed about the "invasion of >> privacy"? > > I'm POd about the privacy issue and 4 numbers is that much closer to the > whole thing, eh? I think you're just being paranoid there. Besides, my bank asks for that as proof of identity when > in the drive through. So... Any moron could claim to be me, no? What ID do they ask for? Should be a driver's licences or something similar. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Sep 29 23:14:47 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Sep 29 23:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gbn15u$fv7$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Anyone with those 4 digits your age and the four or five state zone you > were > born can guess your SSN with 4 or 5 tries usually less. > > I disagree....my twin sister has a SS # that has more than 5 digits different from mine, whereas I'd have expected it to have been within a few of the last digits the same as mine, seeing as we were born 5 minutes apart. But birth date/time probably has nothing to do with it anyway, now that I think about it. From MikeE at ster.invalid Tue Sep 30 01:51:10 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Tue Sep 30 01:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > "Frog Prince" >> Anyone with those 4 digits your age and the four or five state zone you >> were born can guess your SSN with 4 or 5 tries usually less. > I disagree....my twin sister has a SS # that has more than 5 digits > different from mine, SSN has a 2 digit area#, then a 3 digit group#, and then the 4 digit serial#. Area# relates to the geographical area, based on a 1938 numbering scheme, where the SSN was issued - which methodology changed somewhat in 1972; and/but the area# doesn't necessarily represent the state of residence before or after. Within an area, the group# is issued/assigned not in sequential order, but instead in the order: odd 01-09, even 10-98, even 02-08, then odd 11-99 for the state's area. http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/geocard.html The SSN Numbering Scheme So, your sister's 1st 5 digits are going to be related to her location/residence when her SSN was issued and /when/ it was issued. Personally, I think someone would have a pretty hard time trying to guess at the 5 area/group digits based on the year and state you were born. If you would like to check your residence when you got your SSN against its state number, here's a list of how it has been since 1972 http://www.searchbug.com/peoplefinder/social-security-number-allocations.a spx - The same area, when shown more than once, means that certain numbers have been transferred from one State to another, or that an area has been divided for use among certain geographic locations. If you got your SSN before '72, as I did, the scheme was somewhat different. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From tmcgraw at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 01:57:34 2008 From: tmcgraw at spamcop.net (Tim McGraw) Date: Tue Sep 30 02:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Frog Prince wrote: >> >> Anyone with those 4 digits your age and the four or five state zone you were born can guess your SSN with 4 or 5 tries usually less. > > I disagree....my twin sister has a SS # that has more than 5 digits > different from mine, whereas I'd have expected it to have been within a > few of the last digits the same as mine, seeing as we were born 5 > minutes apart. But birth date/time probably has nothing to do with it > anyway, now that I think about it. "The Area Number, the first three digits, is assigned by the geographical region. Prior to 1973, cards were issued in local Social Security offices around the country and the Area Number represented the office code in which the card was issued. This did not necessarily have to be in the area where the applicant lived, since a person could apply for their card in any Social Security office. Since 1973, when SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, the area number assigned has been based on the ZIP code in the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant's mailing address does not have to be the same as their place of residence. Thus, the Area Number does not necessarily represent the State of residence of the applicant, neither prior to 1973, nor since. "Generally, numbers were assigned beginning in the northeast and moving westward, so that people on the east coast had the lowest numbers and those on the west coast had the highest numbers. As the areas assigned to a locality are exhausted, new areas from the pool are assigned, so some states have noncontiguous groups of numbers.... "The group numbers range from 01 to 99. However, they are not assigned in consecutive order." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_security_number#Structure From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 09:53:59 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 09:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gbseoe$rl1$1@news.spamcop.net... > The fountain of wisdom come through again... > If you got your SSN before '72, as I did, the scheme was somewhat > different. > Unfortunately, WAY before '72....but more recently than, say, a few other posters here. Where has John-boy gone, I wonder? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 11:35:08 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 11:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B29694575208TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It wasn't me! It was "Frog Prince" ! > >> Don't recall where I read/heard it but one of the super grades in >> Washington said the $700B was a low ball number by a factor of 3. > > Well, that's $12k+ per adult. I think that $12k+ per adult sent to the > adults would sure do a good job of kicking the economy into gear, don't > you? Won't make a dent in the root cause of this recession -- homeowners whose houses are worth up to 50% less than what they owe on them, the idiot bankrupt mortgage companies that made idiotic loans, and the (few remaining) banks who bought those toxic mixtures of bad loans, good loans, good bonds, and bad bonds. I'm of mixed feelings about the bailout like a lot of others....part of me says "screw them all for being stupid and greedy and buying more house than they could afford with mortgages that had outrageous terms".....but the other part says "hey, their mistakes are killing MY economic stability too, we need to fix this fast!". From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 11:42:18 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 11:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B29697CA3155TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It wasn't me! It was "Indigo" ! >> "Charles" wrote in message >> news:Xns9B26E27CED2B5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > >>> I'm POd about the privacy issue and 4 numbers is that much closer to >>> the whole thing, eh? >> >> I think you're just being paranoid there. > > And I don't. But, hey, denial is something or other. Everyone who isn't as paranoid as you is "in denial". Gimme a break. > > >>> Besides, my bank asks for that as proof of identity when >>> in the drive through. So... Any moron could claim to be me, no? >> >> What ID do they ask for? Should be a driver's licences or something >> similar. > > They ask for the last 4 of your social. That's it. Thus, any moron could > claim to be me, eh? On the phone, when dealing with bank/credit/insurance agencies, I can see using the last 4 digits as being simple and useful. But IRL, face to face, at a drive-in? I have to present my driver's license to the bank teller to make any transactions, I can't believe your bank is so stupid as to not demand a photo ID of some kind, drive thru or not. That *is* moronic, but speaking those 4 "magic" numbers isn't meaningful for your identity safety, if you read Mike and Tim's responses about SS numbers. From MikeE at ster.invalid Tue Sep 30 14:00:32 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Tue Sep 30 14:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: >>> "Charles" >>>> I'm POd about the privacy issue and 4 numbers is that much closer to >>>> the whole thing, eh? > speaking those 4 "magic" numbers isn't > meaningful for your identity safety, Way way way too many 'entities' want to use the SSN as some kind of 'identification' -- which it by law is not supposed to be. Not all/many bank relationships need to involve the SSN - just those which are required to report to the SSA. Each individual should make a strong effort to not use the SSN or any of its digits for purposes of establishing an account with something or other, unless the relationship requires the SSN by law. As a general rule, whenever a form or application asks for the SSN, unless it is related to withholding or reporting intterest payments, the answer should be "I don't give out my SSN for identification/ account/ purposes - you will have to use some other identification information." The SSN is *not* a national identification number, and should not be confused with one. Its purpose is quite limited - to one's SSA account - and shouldn't be used in any other context. SSA = Social Security Administration -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Tue Sep 30 14:19:08 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Tue Sep 30 14:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > > Each individual should make a strong effort to not use the SSN or any of > its digits for purposes of establishing an account with something or > other, unless the relationship requires the SSN by law. Here are two conflicting points of view; one from the SSA and one from an article in the NYT. Follows some snippages from a couple of wiki articles, one on the SSN & one on the 'nat'l ID#' http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10002.html#protect How can I protect my Social Security number? - You should treat your Social Security number as confidential information and avoid giving it out unnecessarily. -and- You should be very careful about sharing your number and card to protect against misuse of your number. Giving your number is voluntary even when you are asked for the number directly. If requested, you should ask: Why your number is needed; How your number will be used; What happens if you refuse; and What law requires you to give your number. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFD71039F935A15754C0A96 E958260 or http://snipr.com/3yvg0 For many years, Social Security cards carried an admonition that they were to be used ''for Social Security and tax purposes -- not for identification.'' -- That assurance rings hollow today. Congress has authorized so many uses of the nine-digit number, and Americans use it for so many unauthorized purposes, that it has just about become a national identifier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number The SSN is frequently used by those involved in identity theft, since it is interconnected with so many other forms of identification, and because people asking for it treat it as an authenticator. -- Exacerbating the problem of using the social security number as an identifier is the fact that the social security card contains no biometric identifiers of any sort, making it essentially impossible to tell whether a person using a certain SSN is truly the person to whom it was issued without relying on some other means of documentation (which may itself have been falsely procured through use of the fraudulent SSN). Congress has proposed federal laws that will restrict the use of SSNs for identification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_number A national identification number is used by the governments of many countries as a means of tracking their citizens, permanent residents, and temporary residents for the purposes of work, taxation, government benefits, health care, and other governmentally-related functions. Sometimes, the number will appear on an identity card issued by a country. -- the United States originally developed its Social Security Number system as a means of disbursing Social Security benefits. Due to functionality creep, the number has become utilized for other purposes to the point where it is almost essential to have one in order to, among other things, open a bank account, obtain a credit card, or drive a car. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From avoozl at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 17:46:30 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Tue Sep 30 17:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gbtgvb$97t$1@news.spamcop.net... > Won't make a dent in the root cause of this recession -- homeowners whose > houses are worth up to 50% less than what they owe on them, the idiot > bankrupt mortgage companies that made idiotic loans, and the (few > remaining) banks who bought those toxic mixtures of bad loans, good loans, > good bonds, and bad bonds. > > I'm of mixed feelings about the bailout like a lot of others....part of me > says "screw them all for being stupid and greedy and buying more house > than they could afford with mortgages that had outrageous terms".....but > the other part says "hey, their mistakes are killing MY economic stability > too, we need to fix this fast!". You DO realize that your losses are mostly paper. Things WILL improve.. eventually. :) From MikeE at ster.invalid Tue Sep 30 17:58:28 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Tue Sep 30 18:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) References: Message-ID: Chris F. Willoughby wrote: > You DO realize that your losses are mostly paper. Things WILL improve.. > eventually. :) Paper losses/ deficiencies/ are what closes banks and other financial institutions. Especially right now. No one knows/ can guess/ what some of their alleged assets are (actually) worth. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 22:25:00 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 22:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Lyme doc makes an outstanding potential diagnosis today.... Message-ID: I've been keeping a daily health log for about a month now, and I took that and a printout of a detailed email I wrote my sister yesterday so I made sure I covered all the key health changes during my appt. with my Lyme doc today. About 2/3 of the way through, he asked me if I'd ever been exposed to mold(s) or toxic chemicals. I've been working with toxic chemicals since 1985, have been poisoned by methanol several times at one job, used TCE without a fume hood or breathing filter (it's been banned for a long time now because it was so toxic), plus plenty of pesticides from golf courses and my own yard, and lots of ant/roach/wasp poison sprays over the years. For several years I was slowly being poisoned by paint thinner and other toxic vapors in my office at Goddard back in the mid 90's --- the wall between the paint shop storage room and my office are didn't go all the way to the ceiling! There were several of us that suffered from dizziness and a feeling of being drunk on occasion in the middle of the day, and finally one guy who was getting really sick called in OSHA to test the air and they discovered the problem. I also had a severe black mold in my master bathroom that I finally fixed within the last year, and the top floor of my house has flooded once, and the basement 4 times (never cleaned or replaced the basement carpets, I just dried them out). I've know for many years that when I go on travel my sinus congestion and dry-eye symptoms greatly improve or disappear altogether, so I've suspected my house was toxic in some manner for nearly 10 years. He wants me to get a home test kit for mold and take this online vision test to see if neurotoxins are hurting my vision (which has been very poor lately). He made the connection between my acupuncture detox sessions where my liver gets stressed/overloaded and a severe short term drop in my health. The few times I've done a special 7-day herbal liver/colon/gall bladder detox I've felt like a new man afterwards, at least for a while. So mix that knowledge in with lyme disease, a possible recurring systemic yeast infection, and my exposure to many neurotoxins over the last 20 years, he thinks I am suffering from a neurological toxic syndrome. He has been very disturbed lately by my constant up and down health and my pituitary gland problems, and thinks I should have been cured by now if it were simply lyme disease I was suffering from. So after I take this online vision test, get the results from the endocrinologist's tests (scheduled for Oct 27), we'll decide where to go from there. Back in the 90's, there was a listeria bug outbreak in the rivers feeding the Bay that made very many fisherman terribly ill. There's a doctor in MD who discovered the connection between the bacteria in the water and the neurological problems the fisherman suffered from, and he found that there is a cholesterol drug called cholestyramine that binds to the neurotoxins and removes them from the body, and he cured a whole bunch of infected patients. That may be my next treatment, plus whatever the endocrinologist discovers. I should know in about 6 weeks which direction we're going to go. The listeria bug and similar neurotoxins target the pituitary gland, thyroid, and hypothalamus.....which covers alot of the symptoms I am dealing with......and I found the brain/spinal cord MRI report for the scan I had in Dec 2006....they didn't find anything out of the ordinary but did find a slight herniation at the T7-T8 disk. Guess what organs are affected by a problem with that disk? The LIVER AND GALL BLADDER. Things are really starting to add up now. I also talked to him about the acidic bottled water I've been drinking for years, and how despite my daily consumption of extra electrolytes my sodium, potassium, and choride levels are bottomed out, which can cause the muscle aches and spasms I've been going thru for the last 3 years. The acidic water leaches those minerals plus calcium out of your body to maintain the proper pH level in the blood, so I'm going to start adding baking soda to my bottled water to make it slightly alkaline. This is a topic that is hotly debated in the medical community, but he says I should see a major improvement, and he's been treating his own drinking water for years. We'll see. I'm so happy we now have several new trails to follow up on! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 23:09:19 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 23:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message news:gbu6no$4ll$1@news.spamcop.net... > > You DO realize that your losses are mostly paper. Things WILL improve.. > eventually. :) > Yeahbutt....the only money I have invested in stocks and funds right now is kind of like a glorified backup savings account--a ROTH IRA and an investment/trading account. If I suffer a catastrophic event that my normal bank savings and checking accounts can't handle, those paper losses will have to become very real. My best "loss" right now with any real money attached to it is down 10%, and the next one is down 13%. >From there on things get very bad very fast, all the way down to a 89% paper loss with a total investment amount so big (for me) that I'm too embarrassed to say it out loud (and it t'ain't nonya bidness anyways ;-) -- it was one of my first stock purchases when I basically had no idea what I was doing. I was quickly down so much so fast I couldn't dump it without taking a huge hit, so I've kept it all these years, hoping that their #1 technology will eventually pay off at some point -- they write great software for cell phones, but have had to basically give it away to get their product into the major manufacturers phones so far (they're a microcap). They did have a major breakthru last month, TELUS pick them to integrate their software into Windows Mobile, a huge leap for them and a gigantic marketing opportunity. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 23:20:34 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 23:25:02 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: OHMIGOD (again!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gbu7e5$61q$1@news.spamcop.net... > Chris F. Willoughby wrote: > >> You DO realize that your losses are mostly paper. Things WILL improve.. >> eventually. :) > > Paper losses/ deficiencies/ are what closes banks and other financial > institutions. Especially right now. No one knows/ can guess/ what some > of their alleged assets are (actually) worth. > That's because by rule of law they are required to have a certain % of money put aside for potential losses on bad investments so their customers are made whole. When those assets have an unknown value, like anything close to mortgage related right now, the banks risk falling below the required amount of (liquid) capitalization, which means the feds can shut them down. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 23:26:44 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 23:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gbtpg1$fvf$1@news.spamcop.net... > Way way way too many 'entities' want to use the SSN as some kind of > 'identification' -- which it by law is not supposed to be. > > Not all/many bank relationships need to involve the SSN - just those which > are required to report to the SSA. Don't get me wrong -- I protect my SSN as much as I can. The only folks privvy to it are ones that need to file some form of document to the IRS at years end, or ones that report to the big 3 credit agencies. I remember several years ago trying to buy something at Worst Buy, and they insisted on getting my phone number to complete the purchase. I refused, saying they had no reason to know my phone number. They refused to budge, even after I called for a manager, so I walked. Idiots just wanted to sell my number to telemarketers even though I was already on the do-not-call list. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Sep 30 23:27:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Sep 30 23:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scsocial] Re: Other disturbing banking practices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B29D5A89D27TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Indigo" ! > >> Everyone who isn't as paranoid as you is "in denial". Gimme a break. > > I didn't write that ya weirdo. Sheesh! Did to!