From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Feb 1 09:43:27 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Sun Feb 1 09:45:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gm39p8$gi7$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Bar0" wrote in message > news:glvr0l$29t$1@news.spamcop.net... > : > : "Frog Prince" wrote in message > : news:glvku3$dpb$1@news.spamcop.net... > : > > : > > : > "Joe Gill" wrote in message > : > news:gltljd$1sq$1@news.spamcop.net... > : > : Here is the situation: ..... > : > : Neither switching on the neutral leg nor having a GF are safe. If the > switch > : is on the neutral leg, then changing bulbs is hazardous. > : > GF breaker was not in consideration. If fact based on the discription I > doubt if a GF breaker is in the line. > > The ground fault referenced was the physical defect/problem in the wiring > that could be either an evolved problem or bad from the get go. Neutral > leg switching is (or was as I've not read the NEC hand book in years) > accepted practice. As for me and mine we never use the practice. > > Regardless the problem should be fixed if not repairable the home run to > the > break box should be disconnect at the break box. until it is. I wasn't referring to a GF breaker, merely a Ground Fault (GF) in his circuits. I don't know US code, but in Canada the Neutral may not be interrupted except where the whole circuit (double pole switch) is interrupted, and all switch interruption must be done on the live wires. Even for a physicist, untrained in household wiring, that leads to some careful planning sessions, and careful scrutiny of the codebook and examples.Wiring a radio or instrumentation is a quite a bit simpler exercise. Before NAFTA the CSA rules required all handheld appliances (mostly tools) to be 3Prong, with any outer conductive parts to be connected to the ground, which is separately connected to ground from the Neutral, and as in the US the electrical parts to be on neutral, the switch, or trigger on the live wire, and the first device in the circuit. The American manufacturers have hoodwinked the US regulators and UL into believing 3 prong wiring was too expensive, leaving us at the mercy of correctly wired receptacles (electricians do make mistakes, and inspectors do miss them from time to time), and "double insulation", which doesn't help if you drill or saw through a wall into a live circuit and your fingers are touching the collet of a drill, or the metal guide. From me at privacy.net Sun Feb 1 22:33:19 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sun Feb 1 22:35:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gm4cef$e54$1@news.spamcop.net... : : "Frog Prince" wrote in message : news:gm39p8$gi7$1@news.spamcop.net... : > : > "Bar0" wrote in message : > news:glvr0l$29t$1@news.spamcop.net... : > : : > : "Frog Prince" wrote in message : > : news:glvku3$dpb$1@news.spamcop.net... : > : > : > : > : > : > "Joe Gill" wrote in message : > : > news:gltljd$1sq$1@news.spamcop.net... : > : > : Here is the situation: : ..... : > : : > : Neither switching on the neutral leg nor having a GF are safe. If the : > switch is on the neutral leg, then changing bulbs is hazardous. : > : : > GF breaker was not in consideration. If fact based on the description I : > doubt if a GF breaker is in the line. : > : > The ground fault referenced was the physical defect/problem in the wiring : > that could be either an evolved problem or bad from the get go. Neutral : > leg switching is (or was as I've not read the NEC hand book in years) : > accepted practice. As for me and mine we never use the practice. : > : > Regardless the problem should be fixed if not repairable the home run to : > the breaker box should be disconnect at the break box. until it is. : : I wasn't referring to a GF breaker, merely a Ground Fault (GF) in his : circuits. : : I don't know US code, but in Canada the Neutral may not be interrupted : except where the whole circuit (double pole switch) is interrupted, and all : switch interruption must be done on the live wires. Even for a physicist, : untrained in household wiring, that leads to some careful planning sessions, : and careful scrutiny of the codebook and examples.Wiring a radio or : instrumentation is a quite a bit simpler exercise. : : Before NAFTA the CSA rules required all handheld appliances (mostly tools) : to be 3Prong, with any outer conductive parts to be connected to the : ground, which is separately connected to ground from the Neutral, and as in : the US the electrical parts to be on neutral, the switch, or trigger on the : live wire, and the first device in the circuit. The American manufacturers : have hoodwinked the US regulators and UL into believing 3 prong wiring was : too expensive, leaving us at the mercy of correctly wired receptacles : (electricians do make mistakes, and inspectors do miss them from time to : time), and "double insulation", which doesn't help if you drill or saw : through a wall into a live circuit and your fingers are touching the collet : of a drill, or the metal guide. Not done any compliance engineering in years. (EU is way ahead of the USA but that could be due to the higher voltages employed) I carry a test jig in my tool box and when we were traveling by RV I had the system double verified. Once by hand at the connection box and after connection with an internal system that would prevent connection if anything was out of spec. I reported a serious problem to a RV park owner and was soundly cursed out as not knowing WT* I was talking about. Did not augue with the guy just dropped a dime on the local code enforcement folk and was told they'd get to it in a week or so. I mentioned the TV people would be out in the morning and did they want a chance to have their side presented at that time? Inspection/condemnation was done that very day. We pulled out and overnighted at a FlyingJ (truck stop) and ran the gen set all night (it was mid summer and hot as the devil). From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Feb 2 12:20:54 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Mon Feb 2 12:25:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: > Here is the situation: > There is an electric light post outside. > Light is controlled by a simple wall switch. (no > 3-way > involved) There existed a problem that when the > switch was turned > on, the fuse blew. So it was left in the off > position. > > One night, we come home and the outdoor light is > faintly > glowing. Like a light on a 'dimmer' switch at > low level. > The switch was in the OFF position Pulled the > bulb until > an electrician could look at it. > Electrician comes and says there is a problem in > the > underground wires. He disconnects the switch and > the > light bulb was put back in. > Come by again tonight, and the bulb is dimly > glowing.. > With switch disconnected... > > Any ideas? Ouch. You're pumping power into the ground or there is a low resistance short between hot and neutral or earth or both. Watch your electrical bill. Get the electrician back ASAP and have him fix it. He probably did away with the switch on purpose and then discovered something else was on the same breaker so in trying to reconnect that part, he also got the outdoor light he didn't want. He should have done a final check at the light socket for voltage and in addition known the difference between a real voltage and a phantom voltage or no voltage. IMO He's a crummy electrician, but he's obligated to fix it for free since it's his screwup. I assume he was there specifically for the light problem, right? Get him back. I hope it's written on the receipt/papers somewhere what he was aske dto do. Right? Just makes it easier to make him keep his word. Be polite. Good luck Twayne From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Feb 2 18:39:18 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Feb 2 18:40:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "bar0" wrote in message news:gm4cef$e54$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I don't know US code, but in Canada the Neutral may not be interrupted I know that's the code in MD and PA, and I'll be willing to bet it's the code everywhere in the US. Switching the neutral is very dangerous, as whatever fixture the switch is controlling is always hot. Someone touching the wrong part while being even semi-grounded is going to get fried (like while changing a lightbulb). From me at privacy.net Mon Feb 2 21:13:47 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Feb 2 21:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gm8073$6o8$1@news.spamcop.net... : : "bar0" wrote in message : news:gm4cef$e54$1@news.spamcop.net... : > : > I don't know US code, but in Canada the Neutral may not be interrupted : : I know that's the code in MD and PA, and I'll be willing to bet it's the : code everywhere in the US. Switching the neutral is very dangerous, as : whatever fixture the switch is controlling is always hot. Someone touching : the wrong part while being even semi-grounded is going to get fried (like : while changing a lightbulb). And if the light bulb is bad just how can you know if the switch is off? Especially if it's a 3+ way circuit?: From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 16:44:05 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:45:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gm89dj$pue$1@news.spamcop.net... > > And if the light bulb is bad just how can you know if the switch is off? Hmmm...that's a toughie...how about flipping the switch up and down a coupla times? ;-) > Especially if it's a 3+ way circuit?: > > There's such a thing as a 4 way circuit? 3 ways have always confused me, so I had a electrical tech at work draw me up a circuit diagram many years ago to refer to because I knew I'd eventually forget how to wire one. I still have that piece of paper in my workshop. I think I know where you're going with this....IIRC, somewhere in a 3-way circuit a neutral is involved in a switch, right? From connyank at cox.net Tue Feb 3 17:26:16 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:30:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/03/2009 01:44 PM Indigo scribbled: > There's such a thing as a 4 way circuit? 3 ways have always confused me, so > I had a electrical tech at work draw me up a circuit diagram many years ago > to refer to because I knew I'd eventually forget how to wire one. I still > have that piece of paper in my workshop. I think I know where you're going > with this....IIRC, somewhere in a 3-way circuit a neutral is involved in a > switch, right? > In every 3 way switch I've bought, the diagram you refer to is included (Leviton swiches all). You have a point - one needs that diagram (at least until one does enough of them to absorb it)... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 17:52:23 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:55:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gmaga7$5vk$1@news.spamcop.net... > > In every 3 way switch I've bought, the diagram you refer to is included > (Leviton swiches all). You have a point - one needs that diagram (at > least until one does enough of them to absorb it)... Yeahbutt......most 'installation' or 'assembly' directions/instructions for damn near everything are pretty much unuseable they're written so badly. Blame on so much of the stuff being made in China, the translations suck and a lot of products just use these stupid step by step diagrams that are confusing as hell, even for smart people! Try assembling any furniture lately? Good luck if it's at all complicated. That diagram I have has notations and stuff that explain everything and has warnings like "make sure you DON'T do this". And I need a magnifying glass to read the instructions that come with some tiny parts, the font is so damn small....kinda like the expanded info pages that come with scrip drugs. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 18:33:50 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Tue Feb 3 18:35:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmadr6$ugb$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Frog Prince" wrote in message > news:gm89dj$pue$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> >> And if the light bulb is bad just how can you know if the switch is off? > > Hmmm...that's a toughie...how about flipping the switch up and down a > coupla times? ;-) > >> Especially if it's a 3+ way circuit?: >> >> > > There's such a thing as a 4 way circuit? 3 ways have always confused me, > so I had a electrical tech at work draw me up a circuit diagram many years > ago to refer to because I knew I'd eventually forget how to wire one. I > still have that piece of paper in my workshop. I think I know where you're > going with this....IIRC, somewhere in a 3-way circuit a neutral is > involved in a switch, right? Gawd, I have to dig out my codebook. I don't think a circuit is left live, except between the switches, however, a neutral coloured wire in part of the circuit is used as a live (when light is on) in a 3 way (2 switches). Some code require a special cable with 4 wires, and a red insulation on one. then there are no live "neutrals" (black). I have seen the diagram for 4 way but not wired one. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 18:35:09 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Tue Feb 3 18:40:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmahr7$aof$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "jg" wrote in message > news:gmaga7$5vk$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> In every 3 way switch I've bought, the diagram you refer to is included >> (Leviton swiches all). You have a point - one needs that diagram (at >> least until one does enough of them to absorb it)... > > Yeahbutt......most 'installation' or 'assembly' directions/instructions > for damn near everything are pretty much unuseable they're written so > badly. Blame on so much of the stuff being made in China, the translations > suck and a lot of products just use these stupid step by step diagrams > that are confusing as hell, even for smart people! Try assembling any > furniture lately? Good luck if it's at all complicated. > > That diagram I have has notations and stuff that explain everything and > has warnings like "make sure you DON'T do this". And I need a magnifying > glass to read the instructions that come with some tiny parts, the font is > so damn small....kinda like the expanded info pages that come with scrip > drugs. It's not small, it's age, yours. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 19:17:12 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 3 19:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Bar0" wrote in message news:gmakbf$gan$1@news.spamcop.net... > > It's not small, it's age, yours. I'll admit age has something to do with it, but to claim that the print font ain't tiny doesn't hold water..... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 19:22:36 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 3 19:25:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Bar0" wrote in message news:gmak93$g8b$1@news.spamcop.net... Some > code require a special cable with 4 wires, and a red insulation on one. > then there are no live "neutrals" (black). I have seen the diagram for 4 > way but not wired one. Yeah, now that I think about it the 3-ways in my house "do" have a fourth red wire....but black is the hot wire, neutral is white. Good rule of thumb to remember is that the AC color codes for black are opposite the 12-volt DC colors (12V DC ground is black, 120V AC hot is black). From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 3 20:25:38 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Tue Feb 3 20:30:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gman4c$m5r$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Bar0" wrote in message > news:gmak93$g8b$1@news.spamcop.net... > Some >> code require a special cable with 4 wires, and a red insulation on one. >> then there are no live "neutrals" (black). I have seen the diagram for 4 >> way but not wired one. > > Yeah, now that I think about it the 3-ways in my house "do" have a fourth > red wire....but black is the hot wire, neutral is white. Good rule of > thumb to remember is that the AC color codes for black are opposite the > 12-volt DC colors (12V DC ground is black, 120V AC hot is black). The only time the neutral wire (white) should have live power on a 120V circuit is in a switch leg scenario. The white wire of the switch leg is connected to live power and the black wire is connected to the outlet (or light fixture). This way it is quite obvious what is going on when you look at the wires (white connected to black). This would not be your situation with the outdoor pole lamp, however. From connyank at cox.net Wed Feb 4 00:16:58 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Wed Feb 4 00:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/03/2009 05:25 PM Steven Underwood scribbled: > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gman4c$m5r$1@news.spamcop.net... >> "Bar0" wrote in message >> news:gmak93$g8b$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Some >>> code require a special cable with 4 wires, and a red insulation on one. >>> then there are no live "neutrals" (black). I have seen the diagram for 4 >>> way but not wired one. >> Yeah, now that I think about it the 3-ways in my house "do" have a fourth >> red wire....but black is the hot wire, neutral is white. Good rule of >> thumb to remember is that the AC color codes for black are opposite the >> 12-volt DC colors (12V DC ground is black, 120V AC hot is black). > The only time the neutral wire (white) should have live power on a 120V > circuit is in a switch leg scenario. wrong The white wire of the switch leg is > connected to live power and the black wire is connected to the outlet (or > light fixture). This way it is quite obvious what is going on when you look > at the wires (white connected to black). wrong - the white is /never/ live - where are you guys coming from?? white to black??? I wouldn't touch it From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Feb 4 17:34:12 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Feb 4 17:35:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Steven Underwood" wrote in message news:gmaqqm$vdr$1@news.spamcop.net... > The only time the neutral wire (white) should have live power on a 120V > circuit is in a switch leg scenario. The white wire of the switch leg is > connected to live power and the black wire is connected to the outlet (or > light fixture). This way it is quite obvious what is going on when you > look at the wires (white connected to black). That would screw up the polarization of that outlet, right? Not good for most appliances that have one plug tab bigger than the other (as opposed to transformers like cell phone chargers that don't care about polarization). From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Feb 4 17:35:29 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Feb 4 17:40:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gmb8ca$5sm$1@news.spamcop.net... > wrong - the white is /never/ live - where are you guys coming from?? Guys? Hey, don't throw me in with his reversed polarity outlet, it wasn't my idea! From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Feb 4 20:37:55 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gmb8ca$5sm$1@news.spamcop.net... > On 02/03/2009 05:25 PM Steven Underwood scribbled: > >> >> "Indigo" wrote in message >> news:gman4c$m5r$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> "Bar0" wrote in message >>> news:gmak93$g8b$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> Some >>>> code require a special cable with 4 wires, and a red insulation on one. >>>> then there are no live "neutrals" (black). I have seen the diagram for >>>> 4 >>>> way but not wired one. >>> Yeah, now that I think about it the 3-ways in my house "do" have a >>> fourth >>> red wire....but black is the hot wire, neutral is white. Good rule of >>> thumb to remember is that the AC color codes for black are opposite the >>> 12-volt DC colors (12V DC ground is black, 120V AC hot is black). >> The only time the neutral wire (white) should have live power on a 120V >> circuit is in a switch leg scenario. > > wrong > > The white wire of the switch leg is >> connected to live power and the black wire is connected to the outlet (or >> light fixture). This way it is quite obvious what is going on when you >> look >> at the wires (white connected to black). > > wrong - the white is /never/ live - where are you guys coming from?? > white to black??? I wouldn't touch it Are you an electrician? I am/was through 4 years of school/apprenticeship before going on to a BSEE. If I could locate my MA Electrical Code book, I would quote you the section. The switch box on a switch leg would consist of only one cable (2 wires for single pole, 3 for a 3 way) not counting ground wire. The live power would be in the outlet box. With only the 2 wires, you have no option but to use the white/neutral wire. The white wire should be marked with black tape, but it is not required (or at least was not required in 1985). A full write up is here with better pictures than I can do in ASCII. http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/basic-light-switch/single-switch-power-source-at-fixture.php | | From me at privacy.net Wed Feb 4 20:35:57 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmadr6$ugb$1@news.spamcop.net... : : "Frog Prince" wrote in message : news:gm89dj$pue$1@news.spamcop.net... : : > : > And if the light bulb is bad just how can you know if the switch is off? : : Hmmm...that's a toughie...how about flipping the switch up and down a coupla : times? ;-) : : > Especially if it's a 3+ way circuit?: : > : > : : There's such a thing as a 4 way circuit? 3 ways have always confused me, so : I had a electrical tech at work draw me up a circuit diagram many years ago : to refer to because I knew I'd eventually forget how to wire one. I still : have that piece of paper in my workshop. I think I know where you're going : with this....IIRC, somewhere in a 3-way circuit a neutral is involved in a : switch, right? To my knowledge not with standard OTC hardware. I've done it, waaaaaay back when but more for the challenge than anything else. : From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Feb 4 20:39:31 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmd554$6fg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Steven Underwood" wrote in message > news:gmaqqm$vdr$1@news.spamcop.net... >> The only time the neutral wire (white) should have live power on a 120V >> circuit is in a switch leg scenario. The white wire of the switch leg is >> connected to live power and the black wire is connected to the outlet (or >> light fixture). This way it is quite obvious what is going on when you >> look at the wires (white connected to black). > > That would screw up the polarization of that outlet, right? Not good for > most appliances that have one plug tab bigger than the other (as opposed > to transformers like cell phone chargers that don't care about > polarization). No, the polarization is not affected by the color of the wire carrying the power. http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/basic-light-switch/single-switch-power-source-at-fixture.php From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 5 16:47:41 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Feb 5 16:50:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Steven Underwood" wrote in message news:gmdftm$59l$1@news.spamcop.net... > http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/basic-light-switch/single-switch-power-source-at-fixture.php | > | Looks like that light fixture is hardwired to a breaker. I think I understand now, but it's not a matter of making a neutral wire "hot", it's because the cable only has one white wire and one black. In reality, the cable running to the switch functions as having two black wires, and as the text notes, one should wrap black tape at the ends of the white wire being used as a switched hot wire. Makes me wonder how I wired all the lights I've put in one end of my basement.....since they're all on one switch (daisy-chained).......and I don't recall runing into this problem. Oh, I remember what I did now -- the lights and switch are powered from the secondary side taps on an outlet hardwired to a breaker. That avoids the confusion of having to make a white wire hot. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 5 16:52:03 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Feb 5 16:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Steven Underwood" wrote in message news:gmdg0m$5ia$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gmd554$6fg$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> "Steven Underwood" wrote in message >> news:gmaqqm$vdr$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> The only time the neutral wire (white) should have live power on a 120V >>> circuit is in a switch leg scenario. The white wire of the switch leg >>> is connected to live power and the black wire is connected to the outlet >>> (or light fixture). This way it is quite obvious what is going on when >>> you look at the wires (white connected to black). >> >> That would screw up the polarization of that outlet, right? Not good for >> most appliances that have one plug tab bigger than the other (as opposed >> to transformers like cell phone chargers that don't care about >> polarization). > > No, the polarization is not affected by the color of the wire carrying the > power. That's because we're talking about a switched light fixture, not an outlet. Two completely different animals. And the semantics of calling a neutral wire "hot" was confusing too. In this case, the neutral wire is not involved, it's basically a problem of not having a cable with two black wires in it available. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 5 18:00:43 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Thu Feb 5 18:05:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmfn23$bb2$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Two completely different animals. And the semantics of calling a neutral > wire "hot" was confusing too. In this case, the neutral wire is not > involved, it's basically a problem of not having a cable with two black > wires in it available. I am sorry... I just looked back at what I wrote and I did actually say neutral wire, which is of course wrong. I should have stuck with the color. However, I did not say neutral in my head while I was writing it :) From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 5 18:26:16 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Feb 5 18:30:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Steven Underwood" wrote in message news:gmfr2v$n9q$1@news.spamcop.net... > However, I did not say neutral in my head while I was writing it :) Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure you didn't, your fingers were briefly taken over by a troll ;-) At least I think we've gotten it all straightened out now! From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 5 19:12:09 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Feb 5 19:15:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Java question Message-ID: I recently upgraded to Java JRE6 update 11, and I still have a subdirectory labled "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_01\" in the Java directory, but there's no "bin" subdirectory in there anymore, just one called "Lib" with a bunch of files in it. Are these two functionally different Java apps, or can I delete the jre1.6 stuff? There was no option in the "remove programs" control panel app to uninstall jre1.6. Oh, word of warning if you upgrade -- java applets that have errors in the code (like every one I use) will come up with this irritating yellow triangle error icon stuck at the top right side of every applet window. I found out how to disable it, if anyone runs into the same problem. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 6 00:29:55 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (RW) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:30:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "Steven Underwood" wrote in message > news:gmdftm$59l$1@news.spamcop.net... >> http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/basic-light-switch/single-switch-power-source-at-fixture.php >> | | > > Looks like that light fixture is hardwired to a breaker. I think I > understand now, but it's not a matter of making a neutral wire "hot", > it's because the cable only has one white wire and one black. In > reality, the cable running to the switch functions as having two black > wires, and as the text notes, one should wrap black tape at the ends of > the white wire being used as a switched hot wire. > > Makes me wonder how I wired all the lights I've put in one end of my > basement.....since they're all on one switch (daisy-chained).......and I > don't recall runing into this problem. Oh, I remember what I did now -- > the lights and switch are powered from the secondary side taps on an > outlet hardwired to a breaker. That avoids the confusion of having to > make a white wire hot. Way back when, the wiring was run through the switch, then to the fixture. Color coding was correct that way as the black was switched and the white carried through. A major rewrite of the code book, 1966 I believe or may have been 1959, changed to running the wiring to the fixture first, then to the switch. Besides holding the fixture, the box also became a junction box. But it also led to white wires carrying power to the switch. This is why on older homes you don't have a hot wire available at the fixture to hook up a ceiling fan independent of the light. On the three-way switch subject, best practice is to use red as the common but is not always or even commonly seen. When playing with electricity, you should always assume any wire may be hot, but under the code black, red or blue may be used for hot, white should always be neutral and green or bare used for ground. Get into the older stuff and it was common to see gray or tan used for neutral and brown or green used for hot. Richard From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 6 00:45:42 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (RW) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:50:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Buying a setback thermostat.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe Gill wrote: > Any thoughts / suggestions? > Brands to look at (or stay away from)? > > Look for one that: > + Supports heating and cooling > + Easy to override. > + Easy to program > + Variable schedule by day of week, not just weekend vs. weekday > > But also, how easy are they to install? > Are wires color-coded or do you just do a one-for-one swap from one to > the other? > > Is there a real payback? > > TIA Yes, very easy to install. Two or three wires depending on your setup. Two other things you may want to look at: - auto switching between heat/cool or manual. Manual is usually better, but auto is prescribed in some climates. - low voltage or line voltage. If it has bell or phone wire, it's low voltage (most systems are low voltage to the thermostat). Line voltage can be harder to find - probably have to go to a plumbing wholesaler. The one I have is a Noma (may be a Canadian name). It has all the features you're looking for plus has up to five setting periods per day. One nice feature on the one I have is it also has 'occupied' or 'unoccupied' buttons on it so I can go to my 'set back' temperature with one button on my way out the door out of schedule, or to my 'at home' temperature if I'm home out of schedule. Mine also has terminals that for feedback from the furnace to indicate the furnace is behaving according to the current command. It also has terminals that connect to my home alarm system if the temperature drops more than five degrees below set point. IIRC, when I bought mine about five years ago, I had a coupon and paid under $20 for it. Our gas company also offers a $20 rebate on them. Richard From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 6 13:15:41 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 6 13:20:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "RW" wrote in message news:gmghsi$sqb$1@news.spamcop.net... > > This is why on older homes you don't have a hot wire available at the > fixture to hook up a ceiling fan independent of the light. Well then, it's a damn good thing my house wasn't wired that way! I think the code here says the bathroom fan must come on with the light in any bathroom with a shower or tub, to prevent mold and drywall rot, I presume. My hallway bath has lights over the sink, an overhead light over the tub, and a ceiling exhaust fan. All 3 fixtures were wired to one switch. I thought that was dumb, why waste the electricity of running the fan and the tub light when all I do (mainly) in that bathroom is, well, to go to the bathroom! I have a smaller second bathroom in my bedroom where I take my showers. So I think the very first thing I did after I moved into the house was to replace the single switch box with a double box (thank ghod for those nifty blue plastic replacement boxes with screw wing tabs!) and put the tub light and fan on a second switch, one that rarely gets used. Screw the code......I think it should have been wired that way in the first place. Hmmmm....now that I think about it, an ex g/f had one of those massive master bathrooms (shower, soaking tub, double sinks) and I know that the fan didn't come on with the sink lights. There were actually 3 switches in that bathroom, the other two were for lights/fans over the tub and the shower, which were on opposite sides of the room. Maybe the code varies depending on the size/layout of the bathroom? From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 6 13:19:32 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 6 13:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Buying a setback thermostat.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "RW" wrote in message news:gmgiq4$36b$1@news.spamcop.net... > One nice feature on the one I have is it also has 'occupied' or > 'unoccupied' buttons on it so I can go to my 'set back' temperature with > one button on my way out the door out of schedule, or to my 'at home' > temperature if I'm home out of schedule. Now that's a neat feature I wished I had on mine. I have to reprogram to do that. I have the winter and summer settings written down so I don't have to fiddle with it every year to find the correct and comfortable temps/times. Of course mine is over 15 years old, those features you have may not have been available back then (or I didn't feel like paying extra for them). From DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net Fri Feb 6 17:19:53 2009 From: DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question References: Message-ID: From: "Indigo" | I recently upgraded to Java JRE6 update 11, and I still have a subdirectory | labled "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_01\" in the Java directory, but | there's no "bin" subdirectory in there anymore, just one called "Lib" with a | bunch of files in it. Are these two functionally different Java apps, or can | I delete the jre1.6 stuff? There was no option in the "remove programs" | control panel app to uninstall jre1.6. | Oh, word of warning if you upgrade -- java applets that have errors in the | code (like every one I use) will come up with this irritating yellow | triangle error icon stuck at the top right side of every applet window. I | found out how to disable it, if anyone runs into the same problem. Some programs like Quicktime may install a Java Jar in the folder of the Sun Java version installed at the time Quicktime was installed. In the case of Quicktime there will be an environmental variable set to point to this Java Jar. -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp From connyank at cox.net Fri Feb 6 17:47:32 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/06/2009 10:15 AM Indigo scribbled: > "RW" wrote in message > news:gmghsi$sqb$1@news.spamcop.net... >> This is why on older homes you don't have a hot wire available at the >> fixture to hook up a ceiling fan independent of the light. > > Well then, it's a damn good thing my house wasn't wired that way! I think > the code here says the bathroom fan must come on with the light in any > bathroom with a shower or tub, to prevent mold and drywall rot, I presume. > My hallway bath has lights over the sink, an overhead light over the tub, > and a ceiling exhaust fan. All 3 fixtures were wired to one switch. I > thought that was dumb, why waste the electricity of running the fan and the > tub light when all I do (mainly) in that bathroom is, well, to go to the > bathroom! I have a smaller second bathroom in my bedroom where I take my > showers. So I think the very first thing I did after I moved into the house > was to replace the single switch box with a double box (thank ghod for those > nifty blue plastic replacement boxes with screw wing tabs!) and put the tub > light and fan on a second switch, one that rarely gets used. Screw the > code......I think it should have been wired that way in the first place. > > Hmmmm....now that I think about it, an ex g/f had one of those massive > master bathrooms (shower, soaking tub, double sinks) and I know that the fan > didn't come on with the sink lights. There were actually 3 switches in that > bathroom, the other two were for lights/fans over the tub and the shower, > which were on opposite sides of the room. Maybe the code varies depending on > the size/layout of the bathroom? > I don't believe there is any code saying the fan needs to go on with the light - just that you need the fan if no adequate ventilation (like a window) is present. But there are some arcane codes out there. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 6 20:49:25 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 6 20:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David H. Lipman" wrote in message news:gmid29$hht$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Some programs like Quicktime may install a Java Jar in the folder of the > Sun Java version > installed at the time Quicktime was installed. In the case of Quicktime > there will be an > environmental variable set to point to this Java Jar. > I.E. don't delete the files? I do have QT installed and use it on rare occasions. I was wondering about the huge discrepancy in the apparent Java runtime versions I have installed --1.6 to 6 in one year?!? No way that's right ;-) Thnx for the tip. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 6 20:53:03 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 6 20:55:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gmiem4$l2r$1@news.spamcop.net... > I don't believe there is any code saying the fan needs to go on with the > light - just that you need the fan if no adequate ventilation (like a > window) is present. But there are some arcane codes out there. I thought about that a bit after I wrote that post, and remembered that I complained to the builder about it -- he's the one who told me it was code. He was a lying bastard, proven after several incidents with me and other nearby homeowners I befriended when we compared notes and figured out he would say anything to close a deal. It was probably just cheaper to do it that way. From DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net Fri Feb 6 21:21:24 2009 From: DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman) Date: Fri Feb 6 21:25:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question References: Message-ID: From: "Indigo" | I.E. don't delete the files? I do have QT installed and use it on rare | occasions. I was wondering about the huge discrepancy in the apparent Java | runtime versions I have installed --1.6 to 6 in one year?!? No way that's | right ;-) Thnx for the tip. The uninstaller will only remove the files actually installed by the installer. If there are other files there they were installed by something else. Examination of those files may give clues as to what they are and who they belong to. SUN JRE has been plagued with vulnerabilities that are actively exploited. I have seen numerous .CLASS files or .CLASS files in Java Jars in exploits and SUN has to keep putting out new versions to mitigate those vulnerabilities. http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA08-340A.html http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-66-244987-1 -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp From connyank at cox.net Fri Feb 6 23:35:37 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Fri Feb 6 23:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/06/2009 06:21 PM David H. Lipman scribbled: > From: "Indigo" > > > > | I.E. don't delete the files? I do have QT installed and use it on rare > | occasions. I was wondering about the huge discrepancy in the apparent Java > | runtime versions I have installed --1.6 to 6 in one year?!? No way that's > | right ;-) Thnx for the tip. > > The uninstaller will only remove the files actually installed by the installer. If there > are other files there they were installed by something else. > > Examination of those files may give clues as to what they are and who they belong to. > > SUN JRE has been plagued with vulnerabilities that are actively exploited. I have seen > numerous .CLASS files or .CLASS files in Java Jars in exploits and SUN has to keep putting > out new versions to mitigate those vulnerabilities. > > http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA08-340A.html > http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-66-244987-1 > such java hangovers has been an ongoing thing for years - long ago, in a mozilla group, it was often put forth that old java vers were deliberately left behind for the sake of backward compatibility. that seemed to be accepted then - my windoze box then had well over 10 different versions in different folders - it never seemed to cause any problems - just took up space. that was win 98 era. linux handles java differently, though I couldn't tell anyone just how it is. I know I have a whole bunch of broken links (linux uses a symbolic link within the plugin folder, linking to a separate location of the actual java plugin). I suspect this to be the result of the same behavior exhibited in windoze due to the many updates mentioned above. since I don't do any java development stuff myself, I'm at the mercy of Sun purely for my browser usage. there is a utility that can clean up the useless links in linux but like many things linux, I forgot where it was about 20 minutes after learning of it - I /know/ theres a bookmark somewhere... From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 7 05:50:54 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Feb 7 05:55:10 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmhuoc$o4a$1@news.spamcop.net... : : "RW" wrote in message : news:gmghsi$sqb$1@news.spamcop.net... : > : > This is why on older homes you don't have a hot wire available at the : > fixture to hook up a ceiling fan independent of the light. : : Well then, it's a damn good thing my house wasn't wired that way! I think : the code here says the bathroom fan must come on with the light in any : bathroom with a shower or tub, to prevent mold and drywall rot, I presume. : My hallway bath has lights over the sink, an overhead light over the tub, : and a ceiling exhaust fan. All 3 fixtures were wired to one switch. I : thought that was dumb, why waste the electricity of running the fan and the : tub light when all I do (mainly) in that bathroom is, well, to go to the : bathroom! I have a smaller second bathroom in my bedroom where I take my : showers. So I think the very first thing I did after I moved into the house : was to replace the single switch box with a double box (thank ghod for those : nifty blue plastic replacement boxes with screw wing tabs!) and put the tub : light and fan on a second switch, one that rarely gets used. Screw the : code......I think it should have been wired that way in the first place. : Both on one swithc is the contractor/builder trying to save money. Not a NEC code requirment. Might be a local requirment but I doubt it. From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 7 05:53:25 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Feb 7 05:55:10 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmiphv$mi6$2@news.spamcop.net... : : "jg" wrote in message : news:gmiem4$l2r$1@news.spamcop.net... : > I don't believe there is any code saying the fan needs to go on with the : > light - just that you need the fan if no adequate ventilation (like a : > window) is present. But there are some arcane codes out there. : : I thought about that a bit after I wrote that post, and remembered that I : complained to the builder about it -- he's the one who told me it was code. : He was a lying bastard, proven after several incidents with me and other : nearby homeowners I befriended when we compared notes and figured out he : would say anything to close a deal. It was probably just cheaper to do it : that way. Have had more than a few similar discussions. Usually settled in my favor when I dropped a copy of the NEC on their desk with a comment 'read it and weep'. : From DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net Sat Feb 7 13:11:04 2009 From: DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman) Date: Sat Feb 7 13:15:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question References: Message-ID: From: "jg" | such java hangovers has been an ongoing thing for years - long ago, in a | mozilla group, it was often put forth that old java vers were | deliberately left behind for the sake of backward compatibility. that | seemed to be accepted then - my windoze box then had well over 10 | different versions in different folders - it never seemed to cause any | problems - just took up space. that was win 98 era. linux handles java | differently, though I couldn't tell anyone just how it is. I know I | have a whole bunch of broken links (linux uses a symbolic link within | the plugin folder, linking to a separate location of the actual java | plugin). I suspect this to be the result of the same behavior exhibited | in windoze due to the many updates mentioned above. since I don't do | any java development stuff myself, I'm at the mercy of Sun purely for my | browser usage. | there is a utility that can clean up the useless links in linux but like | many things linux, I forgot where it was about 20 minutes after learning | of it - I /know/ theres a bookmark somewhere... BTW: They have just release v6 update 12 -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 7 15:18:17 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Feb 7 15:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gmj32p$bvd$1@news.spamcop.net... I know I > have a whole bunch of broken links (linux uses a symbolic link within > the plugin folder, linking to a separate location of the actual java > plugin). I suspect this to be the result of the same behavior exhibited > in windoze due to the many updates mentioned above. since I don't do > any java development stuff myself, I'm at the mercy of Sun purely for my > browser usage. > there is a utility that can clean up the useless links in linux but like > many things linux, I forgot where it was about 20 minutes after learning > of it - I /know/ theres a bookmark somewhere... I have the paid version of RegCure, a registry cleaner, that I run about once a month. I haven't run it since updating Java, since things on the PC are humming along quite nicely since the update -- java applets are loading at least twice as fast as they used to -- so I'm kind of afraid to run RegCure and potentially screw something up. I guess I could run it and see what it finds without hitting the "fix problems" button.....but a lot of those reg entries are so convoluted sometimes I have no idea what they are referring to.....a big reason why a lot of folks recommend never using one. I for one, cannot stand to have a bloated reg file slowing down boot up, and a bunch of empty folders and links littering my HD after uninstalling apps and/or updating Vista......it upsets my sense of order and cleanliness ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 7 15:19:36 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Feb 7 15:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Java question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David H. Lipman" wrote in message news:gmkirn$i18$1@news.spamcop.net... > > BTW: They have just release v6 update 12 > No thanks....after all the time it took to get the new Java console to run the way I wanted it to I'd prefer not to have to go thru THAT again! From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 7 15:36:35 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Feb 7 15:40:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gmjp3j$n71$1@news.spamcop.net... > : > Both on one swithc is the contractor/builder trying to save money. Not a > NEC code requirment. Might be a local requirment but I doubt it. > That's good to hear. I've always wondered if when I went to sell my house if an inspector would notice that bathroom rewiring issue right off the bat, and further discover the new breakers I've installed to provide power to my basement workshop high current power tools. On first blush, it would appear that everything is hunky dory, except for the fact that the breaker diagram doesn't come close to matching the labels on the breakers in the box, an error made by the builder, and the fact that there are now two extra breakers not listed on the original diagram. If one were to take apart the various new junction boxes, outlets, and switched, every is ok now since my recent discovery that I had accidentally switched a neutral wire instead of the hot wire in one of the circuits. Everything is fixed and proper now, except by law no one in my stupid county is allowed to tamper with any circuits in their own house, so theoretically I broke the law just with that simple change in the bathroom switches. Only a licensed electrician is allowed to touch an AC line, and I never got the new circuits inspected because, well, I wasn't allowed to do it by local code. In some cases, a dumb rule meant to provide extra cash to electricians. None of the neighboring counties have that law on the books, although I guess it does protect homeowners who only know enough about wiring to get themselves into trouble. Most people, I'd expect, are too scared to even put their hands inside their breaker box with the protective cover off, let alone add breakers and wire them up. Staring at a 270 amp trunk line will do that to ya ;-) From MikeE at ster.invalid Sat Feb 7 18:38:58 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sat Feb 7 18:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Everything is fixed and proper now, except by law no one in my stupid > county is allowed to tamper with any circuits in their own house, so > theoretically I broke the law just with that simple change in the > bathroom switches. Sometimes it is useful (sometimes not) to consider "After all, what's the worst thing that can happen?" by a process I consider The Power of Negative Thinking. The worst thing that can happen is that if there is some kind of fire and most of the house burns down and the beancounting insurance post-fire inspector is looking for some kind of excuse for not paying off on the fire and discovers the 'illegally' rewired condition and doesn't want to redeem the loss. Insurance companies are designed to collect premiums and not pay claims -- any claims that they can righteously get out of paying -- as a responsibility and obligation to their shareholders. (They have no such obligation to the policy holder, except the contract and the law.) Getting into an adversarial position with the people who you are paying premiums regularly with the expectation that you have important insurance -- when in reality they are just bagging your money and waiting to have an excuse to not pay a claim, can be an awkward condition. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 7 19:38:07 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Feb 7 19:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gml623$fh0$1@news.spamcop.net... > > The worst thing that can happen is that if there is some kind of fire and > most of the house burns down and the beancounting insurance post-fire > inspector is looking for some kind of excuse for not paying off on the > fire and discovers the 'illegally' rewired condition and doesn't want to > redeem the loss. I am firmly aware of that. However, with the original wiring diagrams being inconsistent with the actual wiring of the house, and the original builder of the house being out of business, how does one reconstruct how the house was wired when built? Whatever is stored at the courthouse from the wiring inspection prior to closing is almost 100% likely to be inaccurate. I had some things custom wired for my house, such as cable/phone outlets, plus a couple of additional electrical outlets, so I'm sure the builder filed the "standard" incorrect diagram for my style of house, because that's what I have copies of in my posession. In reality, I know you're right, I'm probably screwed if the house burns down from an electrical problem while I own it unless it is blatently clear that the fire didn't start from one of the altered circuits. And in case of complete destruction, how can they figure out what wires went where? I assume everything would be one big melted smoldering mess. Take the bathroom switch issue -- the proper number of wires would still be there assuming the copper didn't melt, how could they know that that there were two switches there, not one? The switches are 99% plastic, they'd be long gone. From connyank at cox.net Sun Feb 8 00:11:41 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Sun Feb 8 00:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/07/2009 04:38 PM Indigo scribbled: > "Mike Easter" wrote in message > news:gml623$fh0$1@news.spamcop.net... >> The worst thing that can happen is that if there is some kind of >> fire and most of the house burns down and the beancounting >> insurance post-fire inspector is looking for some kind of excuse >> for not paying off on the fire and discovers the 'illegally' >> rewired condition and doesn't want to redeem the loss. > > I am firmly aware of that. However, with the original wiring diagrams > being inconsistent with the actual wiring of the house, and the > original builder of the house being out of business, how does one > reconstruct how the house was wired when built? in the real world, that is often impossible to do for a house over 15-20 yrs. old and no one really tries it unless a blatant violation shows up (like 10 20 Amp breakers on a 100 Amp service) Whatever is stored at the courthouse from the wiring > inspection prior to closing is almost 100% likely to be inaccurate. True, don't ask, don't tell. Just hope the insurance guy doesn't go there. >I had some things custom wired for my house, such as cable/phone outlets, > plus a couple of additional electrical outlets, so I'm sure the > builder filed the "standard" incorrect diagram for my style of house, > because that's what I have copies of in my posession. Are you in the US? I am, and I know of no diagrams based on style of house. Further, most electricians just pull a permit, run a line, /maybe/ sketch a picture, and leave. > > In reality, I know you're right, I'm probably screwed if the house > burns down from an electrical problem while I own it unless it is > blatently clear that the fire didn't start from one of the altered > circuits. And in case of complete destruction, how can they figure > out what wires went where? I assume everything would be one big > melted smoldering mess. Take the bathroom switch issue -- the proper > number of wires would still be there assuming the copper didn't melt, > how could they know that that there were two switches there, not one? > The switches are 99% plastic, they'd be long gone. > I think you're overthinking the whole thing. Mike is correct in his assessment of insurance adjusters, but they in reality just look for (and can find) any overt violations (not difficult to do even with melted switches) - highly doubtful they would ever bother to go down to dept. of bldg & permits to check permits unless sums involved were large. A code violation is a violation, permitted or not... From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Sun Feb 8 14:14:12 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Sun Feb 8 14:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] OE Q for the masses Message-ID: XP Pro SP3, P4, 1 Gig RAM, IE7, lots of disk space, as reasonably free of malware as I know how to be with a full arsenal of spyware detectors & Norton AV, ALL kept updated. OE6 with OEQuotefix. No IM of any kind, also run FireFox and for awhile TBird, but it's been deleted now. I use FF and IE both, but this problem came before ff was ever installed and hasn't evr changed in any way that I'm aware of. Problem (not new): Occasionally, maybe 20% of the time, clicking a link in a spamcop "Finish Reporting" email return, the links do not work. Duration: Probably a year or more it's been like this. Workaround: -- Make them the first thing I click in OE; always seems to work. -- View another mail for ~ 5 seconds, click back to the SC mail, wait ~5 seconds and click. Usually works on the 2nd to 4th try and the link fires. -- Occasionally nothing will work; I just ignore it until I'm done, close/reopen OE and make the first click on the SC links. Usually, not always works, but in those cases leaving that mail and coming back almost always fires it right away. It's not so bad I can't report spams, but certainly an annoyance. Tried: -- Reinstalling IE7 (and thus, OE6) -- Remove/Reinstall OEQuotefix. -- Registry cleaned, optimized and visually studied; nothing untoward, no help. -- AV/malware detectors run several times. -- Re-registering relevant objects. -- Event Viewer, other logs show nothing out of the ordinary. -- Re-image the drive to 6 months back. No change; re-imaged back to current. Comments: -- SC links are NOT the longest links I click on. I never have trouble with any other links like this except SC links in the Finish Reporting emails they send me. -- I believe it is ONLY the Finish Reporting mails where this happens. Other spamcop links, etc., elsewhere including posts, links always work first time every time. Questions: Has anyone else had this experience in any way? Have you heard of this happening before? Is there any hint of WHY this might be happening and how to fix it? Any ideas for a monitoring program and what to watch for? I've tried the MS forums and they're practically useless, either not believeing the symptoms or making WAGs, many of which are completely irrelevant. I have to admit I'd be leery of someone making this same post, but it IS what's happening and I'm no newbie to computers & several of the nuances of XP. Any and all comments welcome. I apologize ahead of time if my responses should be "tried that", but to detail everything I've tried over time would end up being a book. TIA Twayne From MikeE at ster.invalid Sun Feb 8 14:46:10 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sun Feb 8 14:50:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: OE Q for the masses References: Message-ID: Twayne wrote: > Have you heard of this happening before? No > Is there any hint of WHY this might be happening and how to fix it? Since you don't really need OEQF for the SC reporting, I would run OE w/o QF (for such as spam reporting) and see if the symptoms are the same. QF allows you to create an icon for starting OE+QF and you can have another different icon for starting OE without quotefix (w/o above means without). > Any and all comments welcome. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Feb 9 13:50:03 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:50:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Phantom ground loop problem finally solved! Message-ID: Recall may many posts over the last few months about issues with running streaming audio out of my upstairs PC to my upstairs and basement stereos. Thru some helful hints here and a bunch of pure random twiddling, I had finally gotten the noise out of the basement stereo line. I didn't mention it since I rarely it this way, but the 1st floor stereo (my surround sound system) still had some humming in the signal and the signal strength was very, very weak. I got a new MCM electronics catalog last week (some great deals there if you get their snail mail catalogues, BTW), and serendipitously, on the cover were two items that caught my eye: a $4 cable modem isolator for reduced noise/EMI, which is also a splitter, so I was able to remove a long cable run and another splitter in the basement that used to feed cable signals to the TV input of my PC. I bought it because I noticed that while I'm watching TV on my PC and ran my shredder the PC TV signal got really bad and fuzzy (most likely an electrical line noise issue, I assumed) . Comcast ran a single cable straight from the main trunk line to my cable modem to solve some issues a while back, and I didn't want to mess with that line at the time, ergo the basement splitter for the TV feed. Can't really tell if that device is improving my sync issues yet (I'm still losing sync while in sleep mode), but it definitely helped reduce the noise on the PC TV tuner while running the paper shredder, and anything that reduces the cable run lengths and number of splitters in the entire house is always a good thing IMO. The second item I got was a $10 5 MHz - 2.4 Ghz Ground Isolation Transformer for reducing ground loops on TV signals (list price is $20). I'd (we'd) been focusing all my ground loop investigations on the electrical/audio side, but never considered the cable signal tie-in between all 3 devices involved in the streaming audio issue -- the 1st floor and basement TV audio outputs are conneced to their respective stereos with RCA cables. Over the weekend I put the GIT on the basement TV cable feed, and immediately noticed that I could unplug the basement PC power cord from the shared powerstrip without inducing additional noise -- a good start. Last night a light bulb flashed over my head and I removed the GIT from the downstairs TV and installed it on the upstairs TV feed. This morning I fired up my PC and started the streaming audio app and Presto Gizmo -- instant tremendous improvement on the 1st floor audio signal quality! Not only is the humming noise _completely_ gone, for some strange reason -- maybe one of you electrical geeks can explain this one to me because I can't find the relationship -- the signal strength on the PC audio feed is 2-3 times stronger. I no longer have to crank the living room stereo to extremely high volume levels to get sufficient sound levels from the speakers, a huge benefit. Normally, if I were listening to the streaming audio upstairs while working in the kitchen I'd have to set the volume level as high as -25 db in the living room so it was loud enough to hear in the the kitchen and dining room. My "normal" TV watching volume level rarely goes about -40 db, so if I forgot to change the input from the PC signal back to the cab/sat input I'd be deafened when turning on the TV at night. Now that problem is gone too, same thing for the downstairs stereo re: the volume issue. So in the end, we were all chasing the correct issue, a ground loop problem, but it was in the CABLE LINE, not in the line in/out audio cables or in the electrical power connections. Weird, eh? Especially the improved PC audio signal strength, that one I cannot even begin to contemplate. Whatever, I'm a happy camper now! And how the GIT works is a mystery to me too, it's just an in-line component with no connections but female co-ax input/ouputs, which is kind of a PITA, I needed to use a male/female adapter to get the co-ax connection order back to normal. Luckily I have a stash of just about every kind of A/V adapter in my workshop, "just in case" ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Feb 9 15:03:30 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Feb 9 15:05:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Anyone with home electrical knowledge? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gmlpid$ufo$1@news.spamcop.net... > >>I had some things custom wired for my house, such as cable/phone outlets, >> plus a couple of additional electrical outlets, so I'm sure the >> builder filed the "standard" incorrect diagram for my style of house, >> because that's what I have copies of in my posession. > > Are you in the US? I am, and I know of no diagrams based on style of > house. Further, most electricians just pull a permit, run a line, > /maybe/ sketch a picture, and leave. Yes, I live in Maryland. I bought the house new, and didn't like the "standard" floor/wall layout available for the rancher I wanted (they were offering one rancher design and two 2-story building designs at the time). 75% of the houses built in my little neighborhood are "modular" houses, meaning they were built in sections at a factory and trucked to the building site, then installed on top of the foundation with cranes (2 long side by side sections in my case). That allows for a much-improved building with better factory level quality control, gets rid of multiple contractors, and the framework was never exposed to rain, for instance. The roof was also trucked in and plopped in place intact in two pieces. The only thing I had to go on was these paper designs, since at the time there was no rancher being built that we could do a walk-thru in to see how I liked it before making a purchase. I had them change a whole bunch of things based on the furniture I owned at the time -- I could see that with the existing design the living room would simply not work, there would be no place to put my sectional couch and TV stereo cabinet in the proper viewing locations. I had them change the floor layout like this: 1) Close off a big and unecessary 4-5 ft wide entrance from the living room to the dining room close to the front door. There was another nearly identical entrance to the kitchen and hall only 5-6 ft away to the right of that entrance. 2) Move the HVAC air return from next to the stairs to the end of the hallway, which allowed me to move the original coat closet location from the far corner of the living room (a very dumb place to put it) to the hallway, in place of the original HVAC return space. That allowed me to add a second closet to the small 3rd bedroom (my home office), they basically just rotated the existing living room coat closet 180 degrees. 3) Move the pantry from the end of the hallway between the living room and kitchen (what a stupid place for a pantry!) to inside the kitchen, located roughly at the dividing line between the kitchen and dining room. It was basically a 90 degree pivot of the pantry that also moved it a few feet to the right, and used part of the space where part of the old entranceway from the living room to the dining room had previously been located. So the electrical diagram I got with the house and filed with the courthouse is of the "old" rancher design, and does not represent how my house was actually built. After it was finished and they saw the results in person, they liked my changes so much that they built most of the rest of the ranchers that way ;-) > A code violation is a violation, permitted or not... Yeah, I know, but when I want something done MY way (the RIGHT way of course! ;-) I'll do it by hook or by crook. The only blantantly obvious violation is the electrical conduit I installed to provide power from inside the house to the shed I designed and built next to my house in the side yard. Well, that and the extra GFI circuit I installed on one side of my house to provide power for electrical yard tools like hedge trimmers and my leaf vac/blower. Only one outside power outlet is stupid, I needed a 100 ft extension cord to use power tools on the other side of the house, and even then it barely reached. If I wanted to work 5 ft further away, I'd have to walk all the way around the house and reverse the routing of the extension cord to get to where I wanted to go. It was either that, or leave a window or door open and run the cord inside the house that way -- not exactly ideal in the middle of a hot buggy summer! From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Feb 9 15:14:04 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Feb 9 15:15:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Phantom ground loop problem finally solved! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmptsp$89l$1@news.spamcop.net... > > So in the end, we were all chasing the correct issue, a ground loop > problem, but it was in the CABLE LINE, not in the line in/out audio cables > or in the electrical power connections. Weird, eh? Especially the > improved PC audio signal strength, that one I cannot even begin to > contemplate. Whatever, I'm a happy camper now! And how the GIT works is a > mystery to me too, it's just an in-line component with no connections but > female co-ax input/ouputs, which is kind of a PITA, I needed to use a > male/female adapter to get the co-ax connection order back to normal. Found the answer via google, makes perfect sense now: Isolation between antenna network and TV/radio equipment A ground loop in your AV system caused by antenna connection or TV cable is very common if you have your computer connected to the same system. This type of ground loop problem can be solved by using suitable isolation between your AV system and the antenna cable. The simplest way to get rid of the hum is to disconnect the antenna cable from the AV system. If you still want to watch cabe TV or listen to your radio an keep the system hum free then you have to install isolators to all those antenna cable connections your system has. Low current wiring is particularly susceptible to ground loops. If two pieces of equipment are plugged into different power outlets, there will often be a difference in their respective ground potentials. If a signal is passed from one to the other via a cable with the ground wire intact, this potential difference causes a spurious current through the cable. With audio equipment an audible buzz called " mains hum " at AC frequency ( 60 Hz) and the harmonics (120 Hz, 240 Hz, and so on) ...... with video ground loops " hum bars " can be seen scrolling vertically up the screen. These are frequently seen with Video equipment where the display device has its case grounded via the wall plug and the other components have a floating ground connected to the CATV coax. In this case the video cable is grounded at the display end to the home electrical system, and at the other end to the cable TV's ground, inducing a current through the cable which distorts the picture. Ground loop issues with television coaxial cable can also affect any connected audio and video equipment in a home theater system ..... even if all are plugged into the same power outlet which all share the same ground ...... *****the coaxial cable entering the TV is actually grounded at the cable company. The potential of this ground is likely slightly different from the potential of the house's ground, so a ground loop occurs.****** From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Feb 9 20:27:33 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Mon Feb 9 20:30:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: OE Q for the masses References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > Twayne wrote: > >> Have you heard of this happening before? > > No > >> Is there any hint of WHY this might be happening and how to fix it? > > Since you don't really need OEQF for the SC reporting, I would run OE > w/o QF (for such as spam reporting) and see if the symptoms are the > same. Tried that by uninstalling and testing for a day. No difference. > > QF allows you to create an icon for starting OE+QF and you can have > another different icon for starting OE without quotefix (w/o above > means without). Yup, fully aware. Twayne > >> Any and all comments welcome. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 10 12:34:42 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Tue Feb 10 12:35:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Weird one on WinXP "My computer" Message-ID: Hi folks, I've got a weird one, after cleaning up picture directories (folders) and so forth, I noticed that going to "My Computer" no longer brings up the nice window where The various Drives and folders are neatly categorized by type: Hard Disk Drives: ---------------------------------------- C:ccc D:ddd Drives with Removable Storage: ----------------------------------------- F:fff Network Drives: ----------------------------------------- joe-bloe on some.net Other: ----------------------------------------- My sharing folders All the same Folder and Drive Icons show up, but that neat little categorization is gone. It now looks just as if I were viewing some folder with those items in it. I haven't changed schemas or anything like that I am aware of. Switching back and forth between "Windows Classic" and whatever the default choice is, doesn't change anything. Any ideas how to get it back? From blacklist-me at davjam.org Tue Feb 10 15:40:57 2009 From: blacklist-me at davjam.org (David Bolt) Date: Tue Feb 10 15:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird one on WinXP "My computer" References: Message-ID: <+ab9duLZZekJFw4g@dev.null.davjam.org> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009, Bar0 wrote:- >Hi folks, > >I've got a weird one, after cleaning up picture directories (folders) >and so forth, I noticed that going to "My Computer" no longer brings up >the nice window where The various Drives and folders are neatly >categorized by type: > >Hard Disk Drives: >---------------------------------------- >C:ccc D:ddd > >Drives with Removable Storage: >----------------------------------------- >F:fff > >Network Drives: >----------------------------------------- >joe-bloe on some.net > >Other: >----------------------------------------- >My sharing folders Looks like you have the Icon view. I have a similar arrangement, although I prefer to have the full details about each drive so I can see the total space, and how much is free on each drive. >All the same Folder and Drive Icons show up, but that neat little >categorization is gone. It now looks just as if I were viewing some >folder with those items in it. I haven't changed schemas or anything >like that I am aware of. Switching back and forth between "Windows >Classic" and whatever the default choice is, doesn't change anything. > >Any ideas how to get it back? Try this. Using the "View" menu, select the following options: Details Arrange Icons by -> Type Arrange Icons by -> Show in groups For the icon view, pick "Icons" instead of "Details" Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-NG @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~1Mkeys/s | openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | openSUSE 10.2 64b | openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.6 | RISC OS 3.11 From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 10 16:26:31 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Tue Feb 10 16:30:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird one on WinXP "My computer" References: <+ab9duLZZekJFw4g@dev.null.davjam.org> Message-ID: "David Bolt" wrote in message news:+ab9duLZZekJFw4g@dev.null.davjam.org... ... > Try this. Using the "View" menu, select the following options: > > Details > Arrange Icons by -> Type > Arrange Icons by -> Show in groups > > For the icon view, pick "Icons" instead of "Details" Thanks Dave, I thought I tried all of that, but I'll try again. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 10 21:59:07 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 10 22:00:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird one on WinXP "My computer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Bar0" wrote in message news:gmsdri$i4k$1@news.spamcop.net... > Hi folks, > > I've got a weird one, after cleaning up picture directories (folders) and > so forth, I noticed that going to "My Computer" no longer brings up the > nice window where The various Drives and folders are neatly categorized by > type: That sounds strangely similar to a problem I've been asking for help with here without success for quite some time. At some point in the last few months my shortcuts to C:\ and other drives come up with an error message "cannot find C:\, please check that the name is entered correctly", even though the drive *does* pop up in explore.exe after I close the error message dialog box. The problem, at least with Vista, is that all the links are stored under your user profile. I have not found a way to avoid this problem, that is "stepping above" the user profile to get a clean un-tied shortcut to the various drives on my PC. Actually, I did manage to create one link to "My Computer" that _does_ kind of avoid this problem, but it initially skips opening a window created by explorer.exe -- in the desktop taskbar tray it has an arrow next to it that allows you to navigate amongst various drives/directories, but when you right click to open the directory with explorer I still get the "can't find path" error, although again, after complaining, the proper window pops up. Vexing issue, to say the least, and after a LOT of tinkering I'm almost positive it has to do with ownership and permissions for the drives. Even after fiddling with those settings I still have the problem. One of the apps I've been playing with is something called "Unlocker", which shows you which system apps/dlls have locked the path to various directories. It's kind of a dangerous tool to use, so I haven't done too much with it so far. Ok, I'm playing with Unlocker right now to unlock nearly 70 explorer.exe dlls that have "locked" the path for that app....some are working, some are causing explorer to fail and restart.....I DID create a system restore point prior to doing this fiddling around, so hopefully I'm protected.... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 10 22:42:03 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 10 22:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird one on WinXP "My computer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmtetr$1ce$1@news.spamcop.net... . Ok, I'm > playing with Unlocker right now to unlock nearly 70 explorer.exe dlls that > have "locked" the path for that app....some are working, some are causing > explorer to fail and restart.....I DID create a system restore point prior > to doing this fiddling around, so hopefully I'm protected.... Ok, Unlocker fscked up my system, Yahoo Messenger and IDrive online backup now are unoperable. Like I said, it's a dangerous tool. Going to restore back to my previous settings I made an hour or so ago. Now that I think about it, my shortcut link issues started around the time I installed IDrive.... From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Feb 11 15:22:55 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Wed Feb 11 15:25:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird one on WinXP "My computer" References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gmtetr$1ce$1@news.spamcop.net... > .... > > That sounds strangely similar to a problem I've been asking for help with > here without success for quite some time. At some point in the last few > months my shortcuts to C:\ and other drives come up with an error message > "cannot find C:\, please check that the name is entered correctly", even > though the drive *does* pop up in explore.exe after I close the error > message dialog box. .... Nope, it's the group by type thingy. Thought I had tried that before posting. Evidently thought I had is not the same as did. From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Feb 12 18:14:33 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Feb 12 18:15:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > The default config on these new machines is 22GB. I can't guess what that sentence means yet. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From user at domain.invalid Thu Feb 12 18:41:45 2009 From: user at domain.invalid (Farelf) Date: Thu Feb 12 18:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > Charles wrote: > >>The default config on these new machines is 22GB. > > > I can't guess what that sentence means yet. > Thank heavens you said that Mike - I thought it might have just been me (so was waiting ...). From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Feb 12 20:47:05 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Feb 12 20:50:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > 22 GB? Preinstalled on the HD? Oh, I see/ understand/ now. Silly me, I tho't you said earlier, > The default config on these new machines is 22GB. See, I'm accustomed to crossword puzzle 'setters' or creators who are charged with the responsibility of _clever_ 'misdirection' in the clueing/cluing. I don't think the cruciverbalist crowd would be happy with your 'default config' term - they would find it an 'unclever' misdirection. > I'm working on solving all of the issues. We'll see how that goes. I think there is some kind of mistake. The only information I found about lenovo was that the restore partition was about 10G which also seems like a lot. I suppose if you took 10G worth of restore partition which unfolded into about 12G worth of installation bloatware, it might all add up to that many gigs of bloat beyond what an appropriate install should be. I do know that a HP/Compaq factory install has a really really really lot of bloat. Not 22G of course, but a lot. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 12 20:53:38 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Feb 12 20:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gn2jel$hg5$1@news.spamcop.net... > I think there is some kind of mistake. The only information I found about > lenovo was that the restore partition was about 10G which also seems like > a lot. I suppose if you took 10G worth of restore partition which > unfolded into about 12G worth of installation bloatware, it might all add > up to that many gigs of bloat beyond what an appropriate install should > be. My HP restore partition D:\ is 8.8 GB, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't include all the bloatware that came pre-installed on C:\, so having 22 GB swallowed up between the two of them put together doesn't seem _totally_ out of whack to me. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 12 20:58:37 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Ellen) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:00:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "Mike Easter" wrote in message > news:gn2jel$hg5$1@news.spamcop.net... >> I think there is some kind of mistake. The only information I found >> about >> lenovo was that the restore partition was about 10G which also seems like >> a lot. I suppose if you took 10G worth of restore partition which >> unfolded into about 12G worth of installation bloatware, it might all add >> up to that many gigs of bloat beyond what an appropriate install should >> be. > > My HP restore partition D:\ is 8.8 GB, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't > include all the bloatware that came pre-installed on C:\, so having 22 > GB swallowed up between the two of them put together doesn't seem > _totally_ out of whack to me. and on my HP XP laptop the recovery partition is 9.95GB and it says 9.70 GB free -- um that makes no sense at all. I never actually looked at it before :-) Ellen From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Feb 12 21:41:56 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > This isn't being a fun week. Of course, my coworkers just offered to > let me go offshore for a month. Offshore like on a drill rig in the > gulf. A month? I'm the kind of person who like to go somewhere and do something different for about 3-4 days, not 4 weeks at a pop. > Since I'm not clear in enough in my first tries at writing I'll > clarify. That would be the gulf of mexico. Ha! As well you should. There are a lot of gulfs. The closest one to me is the Gulf of California. And/But, I've spent a lot of time on the Gulf of Mexico, the Mexican (esp Yucatan & Quintana Roo) one/part, the Texican part, and so forth. Plus I've known a number of people who work on drilling rigs in the gulf for years at a time. > A drilling platform. Let's see. The food is good. The breeze is good. There's a lot of tech. There are a lot of arrangements for entertainment -- but the typical shift for the guys who do it for a living is to keep them on the rig/platform for long hours/days at a time, and then let them off for long hours/days at a time. None of the normal employees stay on the rig 30 days at a time, unless something has changed drastically since the last I heard. > Trapped for 30+ days. Boy, does that not sound like where I want to be. I wouldn't call it trapped for 30 days; the first 3-7 would probably be pretty good. Hmm. Maybe that doesn't sound too reassuring. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 13 19:41:31 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9BB0D4FA171AATheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > Since I'm not clear in enough in my first tries at writing I'll clarify. > That would be the gulf of mexico. A drilling platform. Trapped for 30+ > days. Boy, does that not sound like where I want to be. Hey, a free warm and sunny vacation to the Gulf in the dead of a semi-dreary winter? I'll do it! From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 13 19:46:18 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gn2mlf$pgd$1@news.spamcop.net... > > A month? I'm the kind of person who like to go somewhere and do something > different for about 3-4 days, not 4 weeks at a pop. How'd you like going to a foreign country where they don't speak Engrish for 6 months? A pal of mine from work "relocated" to South Korea many years ago to help set up a manufacturing facility for some technology we sold them the rights to reproduce. He had the time of his life. Course, being in his mid 30's, single, and loving sushi didn't hurt ;-) He even developed a taste for kimchee, which from what I've heard is roughly equivalent to eating haggis or vegemite to us 'Mericans. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 13 19:51:09 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Ellen" wrote in message news:gn2k5h$ipk$1@news.spamcop.net... > and on my HP XP laptop the recovery partition is 9.95GB and it says 9.70 > GB free -- um that makes no sense at all. I never actually looked at it > before :-) > Really? What a waste of protected space! Whenever I run a certain disk analyzer it complains that D:\ is dangerously close to being full. There's less than a gig of empty space on that partition. From connyank at cox.net Fri Feb 13 21:00:08 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Fri Feb 13 21:05:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/13/2009 04:46 PM Indigo scribbled: > He even developed a taste for kimchee, which from what I've heard is > roughly equivalent to eating haggis or vegemite to us 'Mericans. > dunno what type of 'mericans you hang out with but I've not known a one (save my wife - vegemite, and then only as Aussie show & tell) that eats either haggis or vegemite... From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 13 21:17:43 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 13 21:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gn58j8$4tu$1@news.spamcop.net... > On 02/13/2009 04:46 PM Indigo scribbled: > > > >> He even developed a taste for kimchee, which from what I've heard is >> roughly equivalent to eating haggis or vegemite to us 'Mericans. >> > > > dunno what type of 'mericans you hang out with but I've not known a one > (save my wife - vegemite, and then only as Aussie show & tell) that eats > either haggis or vegemite... That was the point I was trying to make......kimchee is just as disgusting...... From anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net Fri Feb 13 22:38:39 2009 From: anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net (Anthony Edwards) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Charles wrote: > Ah, shucks. OK. Check this... Lenovo has gone insane. If you were to > order a new laptop from them you might end up with a machine that comes > with 22 GB of "stuff" already on the primary drive. Lenovo has its roots in manufacturing desktop and laptop computers for IBM. My first computer was an IBM Aptiva which came with a 540Mb hard drive, the factory pre-installed image (PC-DOS 7.0, Windows 3.1, OS/2 Warp plus lots of additional software) took up if memory serves correctly over 500Mb of that, leaving under 40Mb free! Perhaps old habits die hard. -- Anthony Edwards * anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net Abuse Team Manager * Tel: 020 7900 4444 Easynet Ltd * DDI: 0161 888 3507 http://www.easynet.com * Fax: 0845 333 4503 From user at domain.invalid Fri Feb 13 23:27:59 2009 From: user at domain.invalid (Farelf) Date: Fri Feb 13 23:30:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "jg" wrote in message > news:gn58j8$4tu$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> On 02/13/2009 04:46 PM Indigo scribbled: >> >> >> >>> He even developed a taste for kimchee, which from what I've heard is >>> roughly equivalent to eating haggis or vegemite to us 'Mericans. >>> >> >> >> dunno what type of 'mericans you hang out with but I've not known a one >> (save my wife - vegemite, and then only as Aussie show & tell) that eats >> either haggis or vegemite... > > > That was the point I was trying to make......kimchee is just as > disgusting...... Enough of the Vegemite bashing already (though appreciation to all for making it a generic noun, our old enemy Marmite pipped once again). I shall impart to you the secret passed down through the generations of Oz, once part of the advertizing of the product but which no longer needs to be stated in its homeland - use only "The merest smear." Sure, (some) expats like to gross out the unwary by thrusting slices of unbuttered bread at them,lavishly slathered with the stuff. These are the same people who convinced the entire nation of Israel that Australians attend formal Israeli assemblies barefoot in celebration of Ned Kelly's birthday (that's a little complicated, the martyred Ned supposedly stumbling barefoot over the coals and embers of the blazing Glenrowan pub, the joke being his birthday has never been established, every day is "Ned Kelly's birthday"). Anyway, trust an Aussie at your peril. I am, myself, a consistent liar, as I've confessed before, elsewhere. And Vegemite was made to be eaten with *buttered* bread (or crackers) f'Pete's sake, that's part of the 'taste design'. 'S OK - the vitamin B complex helps metabolize the fats. Also goes well with cheese. I go now, facing a lingering fate as an exile :( that being the fitting punishment of one who betrays State secrets. At least this 'assembly' might think well of me, knowing I did it for the sake of all humankind. {sob} From user at domain.invalid Sat Feb 14 00:10:43 2009 From: user at domain.invalid (Farelf) Date: Sat Feb 14 00:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anthony Edwards wrote: ... > > Lenovo has its roots in manufacturing desktop and laptop computers > for IBM. My first computer was an IBM Aptiva which came with a 540Mb > hard drive, the factory pre-installed image (PC-DOS 7.0, Windows 3.1, > OS/2 Warp plus lots of additional software) took up if memory serves > correctly over 500Mb of that, leaving under 40Mb free! > > Perhaps old habits die hard. > You may have put your finger on it. I've still got an old Aptiva and you're right, the 'extras' are almost overwhelming. Looking at the here and now - http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/na/LenovoPortal/en_US/special-offers.workflow:ShowPromo?LandingPage=/All/US/Sitelets/Software/ThinkVantage-Technologies or http://snipurl.com/butxq it is easy to see the philosophy is still very much in place. Those "ThinkVantage Technologies" sound like they could be awfully expensive in terms of disk space - particularly if a protected partition 'repository' is provided for 'maintenance-free' image storage where the image size provision is made 'adequate' for future data and applications. From connyank at cox.net Sat Feb 14 00:28:09 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Sat Feb 14 00:30:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/13/2009 08:27 PM Farelf scribbled: > > I go now, facing a lingering fate as an exile :( that being the fitting > punishment of one who betrays State secrets. At least this 'assembly' > might think well of me, knowing I did it for the sake of all humankind. > {sob} you'll be gob smacked for eternity, mate, but you're fair dinkum From loyal at spamcop.user Sat Feb 14 01:04:08 2009 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Sat Feb 14 01:05:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > He even > developed a taste for kimchee, which from what I've heard is roughly > equivalent to eating haggis or vegemite to us 'Mericans. Don't knock it if you try it. Kimchi is often cabbage! And spices can vary. There are varieties as well, and might be best explained as the differences in hamburgers that most of us are familiar with. AndrewB From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 14 14:56:22 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:30:57 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gn5msm$bhd$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> >> He even >> developed a taste for kimchee, which from what I've heard is roughly >> equivalent to eating haggis or vegemite to us 'Mericans. > > Don't knock it if you try it. Kimchi is often cabbage! And spices can > vary. There are varieties as well, and might be best explained as the > differences in hamburgers that most of us are familiar with. I thought Kimchi was _always_ made of (rotten) cabbage? The whole process disgusts me...grind up some cabbage, mix in some spices, put it in a jar and bury it in the ground to "simmer" until it's done (rotting). Yuck. From user at domain.invalid Sat Feb 14 18:58:41 2009 From: user at domain.invalid (Farelf) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:30:57 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "AndrewB" wrote in message > news:gn5msm$bhd$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> Indigo wrote: >> ... > > > I thought Kimchi was _always_ made of (rotten) cabbage? The whole > process disgusts me...grind up some cabbage, mix in some spices, put it > in a jar and bury it in the ground to "simmer" until it's done > (rotting). Yuck. Sounds marginally better than that buried shark stuff from Scandanavia (or Iceland?) at that. All traditional food preservation was born of desperation and failure meant a pitiful death for entire families. It is a testament to the human spirit that these foodstuffs maintain as so many 'delicacies' after the starveling days are done. On a related-reverse note we might guffaw at Johnathon Swift's "It was a brave man who first ate an oyster," but of course it was simply starvation and there spake a man who had never known hunger and couldn't, for all his great talent, even imagine it. That there are such people is worthy of celebration too. But none of "us" has to like (or even try*) kimchi or oysters and that's the greatest triumph of all, especially if we might have the grace acknowledge that great numbers still starve even now. *No excuses accepted with regard to Vegemite though. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 14 19:52:35 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:30:58 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Farelf" wrote in message news:gn7lrf$b5t$1@news.spamcop.net... > > On a related-reverse note we might guffaw at Johnathon Swift's "It was a > brave man who first ate an oyster," but of course it was simply starvation > and there spake a man who had never known hunger and couldn't, for all his > great talent, even imagine it. Yeah, it sure took some balls to eat that first oyster, especially if it was raw. Of course here in MD that's the only "proper" way to eat them, raw on the half shell, or in an oyster shooter, which consists of a raw oyster, cocktail sauce, maybe some tabasco souce, and a splash of beer, served in a shot glass. I probably never would have eaten one raw if I hadn't met my ex-wife, they look like a solidified lump of snot ;-) I actually came to enjoy them, especially the shooters, but over time since my divorce I've lost my taste for them. Still love Oysters Rockerfeller (sp?) though, yum! And Clams Casino too. I have a very funny oyster shooter story I'm sure I've posted here in the past, but you probably missed it: After our official wedding reception was over, a bunch of us, friends and family, went back to our respective hotel rooms to change clothes and go out to continue the party. We were staying at a B&B in downtown Annapolis, a great old town on the water with a long history of watermen, especially oystermen (it's also the state capitol). We all met up at our favorite restaurant, which is right on the water at the edge of downtown. My youngish new bro-in-law had never eaten a raw oyster before, so of course the first thing we did was order a round of oyster shooters to break his cherry ;-) We didn't tell him anything specific about what it was or how it was made until after we all chugged down our shooters. Someone, maybe my ex, noticed that he hadn't chewed the oyster, he had just swallowed it whole. We then explained to him that the oyster was alive when he swallowed it -- for you folks that have never had the pleasure of slurping an oyster off the half shell, the oysters are indeed alive when you split the shell to serve them. They turn poisonous very fast if they die because they were not kept on ice after they were hauled aboard the boat, and you have to serve them the same day that they're caught. You can tell if one is dead or alive by checking to see if the shell is partially (even barely) open or not -- if it's closed, that means he's dead. Ok, oyster eating lesson is over, on with the story. We then proceeded to inflict further pain on him by "explaining" that since he hadn't chewed it, the oyster in his stomach was still alive and probably wriggling around in pain. Oh no! I'd never actually seen someone turn green in the face before, but boy, his face sure changed to a pale sickly color in an instant! He then bolted to the bathroom to barf. Goddamn, we were all laughing so hard it was started to hurt.....in reality, your stomach acid kills them pretty damn quickly if you don't chew them to death first ;-) From user at domain.invalid Sun Feb 15 04:00:29 2009 From: user at domain.invalid (Farelf) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:30:58 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > ... > And Clams Casino too. Prefer them raw but confess I haven't tried that. > > I have a very funny oyster shooter story I'm sure I've posted here in > the past, but you probably missed it: > ... Haw!, hadn't seen that one before. A newspaper cartoonist and journalist team from here (Perth) used to go to odd places 'on assignment' at the behest of their 'Kindly Editor' and ended up dining in New York one night. Being used to Sydney rock oysters the cartoonist (Paul Rigby, his name might be familiar to some in the US) ordered a dozen oysters 'natural'. The waiter blanched and suggested half a dozen might suffice. The indignant Rigby pointed out that only shielas ordered them by the half dozen, his order would stand thank you very much. The waiter duly staggered back with a dozen of the very largest Pacific oysters, each on a half shell 'the size of a dinner plate,' the awed journo recorded. It is also recorded that Rigby fought his way through the lot but was forced to re-consider his main course. From loyal at spamcop.user Mon Feb 16 12:43:53 2009 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Mon Feb 16 12:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > I thought Kimchi was _always_ made of (rotten) cabbage? The whole > process disgusts me...grind up some cabbage, mix in some spices, put it > in a jar and bury it in the ground to "simmer" until it's done > (rotting). Yuck. Kimchi is rotten in as much as pickles, sauerkraut, yogurt, beer, wine, bread, soy sauce, whiskey, vodka, vinegar, cider, salami, prosciutto, cheese and dozens of other food are rotten. That being, they are all fermented. AndrewB From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Feb 16 16:11:37 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Feb 16 16:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Farelf" wrote in message news:gn8ljb$8ft$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> > ... >> And Clams Casino too. > > Prefer them raw but confess I haven't tried that. I've had raw clams too, they call them 'littlenecks' around here. Not my cup of tea. > ... > Haw!, hadn't seen that one before. > I never get tired of telling it ;-) > A newspaper cartoonist and journalist team from here (Perth) used to go to > odd places 'on assignment' at the behest of their 'Kindly Editor' and > ended up dining in New York one night. Being used to Sydney rock oysters > the cartoonist (Paul Rigby, his name might be familiar to some in the US) > ordered a dozen oysters 'natural'. The waiter blanched and suggested half > a dozen might suffice. The indignant Rigby pointed out that only shielas > ordered them by the half dozen, his order would stand thank you very much. > The waiter duly staggered back with a dozen of the very largest Pacific > oysters, each on a half shell 'the size of a dinner plate,' the awed > journo recorded. It is also recorded that Rigby fought his way through > the lot but was forced to re-consider his main course. Wow, those are some monsters! The biggest ones I've seen are roughly the size of a large man's clenced fist, up to the wrist. Obviously a different breed ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Feb 16 16:12:35 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Feb 16 16:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gnc8kl$aos$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> I thought Kimchi was _always_ made of (rotten) cabbage? The whole >> process disgusts me...grind up some cabbage, mix in some spices, put it >> in a jar and bury it in the ground to "simmer" until it's done (rotting). >> Yuck. > > > Kimchi is rotten in as much as pickles, sauerkraut, yogurt, beer, wine, > bread, soy sauce, whiskey, vodka, vinegar, cider, salami, prosciutto, > cheese and dozens of other food are rotten. That being, they are all > fermented. > Semantics ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 17 07:16:55 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Ellen) Date: Tue Feb 17 07:50:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "AndrewB" wrote in message > news:gnc8kl$aos$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Indigo wrote: >>> I thought Kimchi was _always_ made of (rotten) cabbage? The whole >>> process disgusts me...grind up some cabbage, mix in some spices, put >>> it in a jar and bury it in the ground to "simmer" until it's done >>> (rotting). Yuck. >> >> >> Kimchi is rotten in as much as pickles, sauerkraut, yogurt, beer, >> wine, bread, soy sauce, whiskey, vodka, vinegar, cider, salami, >> prosciutto, cheese and dozens of other food are rotten. That being, >> they are all fermented. >> > > Semantics ;-) wandering into the thread late, I wonder where it morphed from lenova to kimchi to oysters and how that happened ... ah well a little mystery is always nice :-) Ellen From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Feb 17 21:16:29 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Feb 17 21:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Ellen" wrote in message news:gnebhl$1nf$1@news.spamcop.net... > > wandering into the thread late, I wonder where it morphed from lenova to > kimchi to oysters and how that happened ... ah well a little mystery is > always nice :-) > My fault, my .social instincts led to the topic drift.....more like a rip tide ;-) From me at privacy.net Thu Feb 19 21:08:47 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Thu Feb 19 21:10:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] task scheduler problem Message-ID: I posted this over a month ago, no response. Trying under different subject. When updating the task scheduler I get the following error - I am logged in as administrator. Obviously task won't run How to fix --error message-- "LiveUpdate.job" (LiveUpdate.lnk) 1/23/2009 11:13:29 AM ** ERROR ** The attempt to retrieve account information for the specified task failed; therefore, the task did not run. Either an error occurred, or no account information existed for the task. The specific error is: 0x8004130f: No account information could be found in the Task Scheduler security database for the task indicated. From me at privacy.net Thu Feb 19 21:12:31 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Thu Feb 19 21:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] partition magic question Message-ID: I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. From DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net Thu Feb 19 21:27:35 2009 From: DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman) Date: Thu Feb 19 21:30:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: From: "anon" | I posted this over a month ago, no response. | Trying under different subject. | When updating the task scheduler I get the following error - I am logged in | as administrator. | Obviously task won't run | How to fix | --error message-- | "LiveUpdate.job" (LiveUpdate.lnk) 1/23/2009 11:13:29 AM ** ERROR ** | The attempt to retrieve account information for the specified task failed; | therefore, the task did not run. Either an error occurred, or no account | information existed for the task. | The specific error is: 0x8004130f:: No account information could be found in the Task Scheduler | security database for the task indicated. Did you apply a local account and password to the JOB (it doesn't inherit your credentials) ? -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp From loyal at spamcop.user Fri Feb 20 00:41:26 2009 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Fri Feb 20 00:45:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: anon wrote: > I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. > Sure, fire away.... :) I use PQ (pre-Symantec versions) on new computers with Windows to create a small partition on the disk that I point TEMP, TMP and the swap file at. This seriously cuts down on fragmentation on the other, larger disk. I prefer disk utilities that can boot on their own and work outside of the host operating system. AndrewB From MikeE at ster.invalid Fri Feb 20 09:33:57 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:35:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: anon wrote: > I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. I used to use PowerQuest's Partition Magic way way way back at v.4 -- and continued to use that v. PM until the linux live CDs got to have better (more modern) partition managers. Now I just use one linux distro or another. The newest v. of a linux distro live CD made just for the purpose of its partition editor and other disk tools is PartEd Magic 3.6 That being said, I don't know why you put stipulations and requirements on whether you do or you don't ask your question. I for one don't care whether you ask your question or not. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Fri Feb 20 10:42:42 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Fri Feb 20 10:45:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > anon wrote: >> I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. > That being said, I don't know why you put stipulations and requirements > on whether you do or you don't ask your question. I for one don't care > whether you ask your question or not. Maybe that sounds rude. Here's another way (to express something about this). The way it works is, you (simply) ask your question. No one can 'assure' you that they will answer your question in advance of your asking it. People decide that they can or will answer a question based on what the actual question is, not what it is generally about. They can't know that they can or will answer a question until they see the actual question, not just the 'topic' such as (something about) PM (some version). It is possible that you might ask a specific question and it will go unanswered. That's just the way it works. If it works out that way, there are other newsgroups and webforums where the question can be asked. If Asking Questions 101 is going to be this detailed, I'm afraid that my opinions about how to actually/properly *ASK* a question are liable to become tiresome -- in terms of providing sufficient background and the avoidance of ambiguity. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From me at privacy.net Fri Feb 20 14:55:13 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Fri Feb 20 15:00:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: "David H. Lipman" wrote in message news:gnl4em$8ta$1@news.spamcop.net... > From: "anon" > > | I posted this over a month ago, no response. > > | Trying under different subject. > > | When updating the task scheduler I get the following error - I am logged > in > | as administrator. > > | Obviously task won't run > > | How to fix > > | --error message-- > | "LiveUpdate.job" (LiveUpdate.lnk) 1/23/2009 11:13:29 AM ** ERROR ** > | The attempt to retrieve account information for the specified task > failed; > | therefore, the task did not run. Either an error occurred, or no account > | information existed for the task. > | The specific error is: > 0x8004130f:: No account information could be found in the Task Scheduler > | security database for the task indicated. > > > > Did you apply a local account and password to the JOB (it doesn't inherit > your > credentials) ? > None was requested - so did not supply any. > -- > Dave > http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html > Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp > > From me at privacy.net Fri Feb 20 14:58:51 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Fri Feb 20 15:00:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gnlfq4$13m$1@news.spamcop.net... > anon wrote: >> I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. >> > > Sure, fire away.... :) > > I use PQ (pre-Symantec versions) on new computers with Windows to create a > small partition on the disk that I point TEMP, TMP and the swap file at. > This seriously cuts down on fragmentation on the other, larger disk. > > I prefer disk utilities that can boot on their own and work outside of the > host operating system. > > > AndrewB When I try to change the size of an existing PQ partition I get the following error messages (both in windows and DOS.) ---errors-- 1-7-09 partition magic failure from windows, resize c partition. upon reboot: error 27 cannot lock drive 12-3-08 >From DOS, resize c partition. error #91 Disk manager has been detected on drive 1 Disk mansager not running Boot froom floppy OK Press enter - error 87 Unabel to initialize engine OK didk trying ot check disk D Faided on step 2 (hung) From me at privacy.net Fri Feb 20 15:01:36 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Fri Feb 20 15:05:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gnmf07$11d$1@news.spamcop.net... > anon wrote: >> I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. > > I used to use PowerQuest's Partition Magic way way way back at v.4 -- and > continued to use that v. PM until the linux live CDs got to have better > (more modern) partition managers. Now I just use one linux distro or > another. > > The newest v. of a linux distro live CD made just for the purpose of its > partition editor and other disk tools is PartEd Magic 3.6 > > That being said, I don't know why you put stipulations and requirements on > whether you do or you don't ask your question. I for one don't care > whether you ask your question or not. > > > > -- > Mike Easter > kibitzer, not SC admin > Reason for 'blank' question - did not know whether this waqs the correct group. spamcop seeemed rather strange place to ask about PQ. When I try to change the size of an existing PQ partition I get the following error messages (both in windows and DOS.) How to fix? ---errors-- 1-7-09 partition magic failure from windows, resize c partition. upon reboot: error 27 cannot lock drive 12-3-08 >From DOS, resize c partition. error #91 Disk manager has been detected on drive 1 Disk mansager not running Boot froom floppy OK Press enter - error 87 Unabel to initialize engine OK didk trying ot check disk D Faided on step 2 (hung) From MikeE at ster.invalid Fri Feb 20 20:45:28 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: anon wrote: > "Mike Easter" > When I try to change the size of an existing PQ partition I get the > following error messages (both in windows and DOS.) > > How to fix? I don't know the answer. I haven't seen any of that before. I would look at the partitions with another/different tool like part-ed magic's tools -- GPartEd, PartEd, sfdisk. front page http://snipr.com/cc36g overview http://snipr.com/cc38q tools http://wiki.partedmagic.com/index.php/Programs review of an earlier version http://www.raiden.net/?cat=2&aid=503 "In the end, I was able to easily remove the unwanted partition, resize the two remaining, and then get happily under way again with no hickups, glitches, or problems." -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 20 21:22:16 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 20 21:25:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gnmj14$bdm$1@news.spamcop.net... > > It is possible that you might ask a specific question and it will go > unanswered. That's just the way it works. If it works out that way, > there are other newsgroups and webforums where the question can be asked. Yeah, like my continuing pleading with someone to help me with my "cannot find file/directory" problem whenever I click on a shortcut that links to my C: drive or a subdirectory of C:. Now it's even expanded to affecting winbloze updates! I get the complaint message that Explorer.exe can't find the requested object, but then it opens it anyway. Very annoying. From connyank at cox.net Fri Feb 20 23:38:54 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Fri Feb 20 23:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/20/2009 06:43 PM Charles scribbled: > No way it was me! It was "anon" ! > >> I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. > > Symantec are evil corporate whores. And they haven't updated the software > since they bought it. No surprise that it doesn't work on recent hardware. now, Charles, just how do you really feel about Symantec? From loyal at spamcop.user Sat Feb 21 02:18:55 2009 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Sat Feb 21 02:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: anon wrote: > > When I try to change the size of an existing PQ partition I get the > following error messages (both in windows and DOS.) > > ---errors-- > 1-7-09 partition magic failure > > from windows, resize c partition. > > upon reboot: > error 27 cannot lock drive > > > 12-3-08 > From DOS, resize c partition. > > error #91 > Disk manager has been detected on drive 1 > Disk mansager not running > Boot froom floppy OK > Press enter - error 87 > Unabel to initialize engine > > OK didk trying ot check disk D > Faided on step 2 (hung) What version of PQ are you using? And are you sure it's compatible with the type of your file system? Which is more than likely NTFS or FAT-32. Perhaps you have an older PQ version that doesn't work with FAT-32? Another thing I would suggest would be using disk utilities to ensure the integrity of your disk. Akin to the DOS CHKDSK utility, WinXP has the equivalent if you right click a disk, Properties, Tools, Error-Checking, and check both and click Start. If the volume about to be scanned is in use, it will be rescheduled for the next boot. And note, this is not a quick procedure. Is your Anti-virus up to date to ensure you don't have any boot sector type of viruses that might be getting in the way? AndrewB From connyank at cox.net Sat Feb 21 12:53:53 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/21/2009 06:56 AM Charles scribbled: > No way it was me! It was jg ! >> On 02/20/2009 06:43 PM Charles scribbled: >>> No way it was me! It was "anon" ! >>> >>>> I will post my question if someone wants to discuss PQ. >>> Symantec are evil corporate whores. And they haven't updated the >>> software since they bought it. No surprise that it doesn't work on >>> recent hardware. >> now, Charles, just how do you really feel about Symantec? > > Well, golly, they're corporate pigs subscribing to the buy 'em up and shut > 'em down philosophy on dealing with competitors who offer better products. > Bad for everyone but stockholders. Something seriously screwed up with > capitalism. happy shareholders (the main base of capitalism) would think otherwise... If ya can't beat 'em, buy 'em. From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 21 14:04:19 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Sat Feb 21 14:05:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gno9st$9ni$1@news.spamcop.net... > anon wrote: >> >> When I try to change the size of an existing PQ partition I get the >> following error messages (both in windows and DOS.) >> >> ---errors-- >> 1-7-09 partition magic failure >> >> from windows, resize c partition. >> >> upon reboot: >> error 27 cannot lock drive >> >> >> 12-3-08 >> From DOS, resize c partition. >> >> error #91 >> Disk manager has been detected on drive 1 >> Disk mansager not running >> Boot froom floppy OK >> Press enter - error 87 >> Unabel to initialize engine >> >> OK didk trying ot check disk D >> Faided on step 2 (hung) > > > What version of PQ are you using? And are you sure it's compatible with > the type of your file system? Which is more than likely NTFS or FAT-32. > Perhaps you have an older PQ version that doesn't work with FAT-32? > > Another thing I would suggest would be using disk utilities to ensure the > integrity of your disk. Akin to the DOS CHKDSK utility, WinXP has the > equivalent if you right click a disk, Properties, Tools, Error-Checking, > and check both and click Start. If the volume about to be scanned is in > use, it will be rescheduled for the next boot. And note, this is not a > quick procedure. > > Is your Anti-virus up to date to ensure you don't have any boot sector > type of viruses that might be getting in the way? > > > AndrewB Actually, the partition I want to change size of was created with the current version of PQ version 8.05. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 21 15:58:26 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:00:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gno9st$9ni$1@news.spamcop.net... > Another thing I would suggest would be using disk utilities to ensure the > integrity of your disk. Akin to the DOS CHKDSK utility, WinXP has the > equivalent if you right click a disk, Properties, Tools, Error-Checking, > and check both and click Start. If the volume about to be scanned is in > use, it will be rescheduled for the next boot. And note, this is not a > quick procedure. One important note to add: when you do this, at least in Vista, it creates a startup entry to run CHKDSK. So after you run it once, before you reboot, make sure you ferret out that startup item and DELETE IT! Otherwise you'll end up waiting hours to use your PC (again). From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 21 16:08:39 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:10:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "jg" wrote in message news:gnpf3i$js$2@news.spamcop.net... > happy shareholders (the main base of capitalism) would think otherwise... > If ya can't beat 'em, buy 'em. Just remember there are two groups of shareholders involved in buyout. I've been screwed three times over the years when I invested in micro/small cap biotech and tech companies that had cutting edge technology and the patents for it. Hedge funds and stock shorters ganged up and beat the share prices into the dirt, even though all of the companies were on the verge of becoming profitable, and larger companies in the same sector swooped in and snapped up the small guys without warning. The long term stockholders in those companies that got bought out got crushed, stuck with permanent and unrecoverable losses. That kind of crap happens all the time, much of it illegally, and it hurts a LOT of people besides stockholders in the process -- especially when those "excess employees" in the company that got acquired lose their jobs (gotta cut costs to pay for our new acquisition!). From loyal at spamcop.user Sat Feb 21 18:20:49 2009 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Sat Feb 21 18:25:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: anon wrote: > > Actually, the partition I want to change size of was created with the > current version of PQ version 8.05. I assume you have unused, unallocated space just after this drive if you wish to increase it? Are you trying to resize it from Windows or from the boot diskette or cdrom that comes with Partition Magic? AndrewB From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 21 22:47:23 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Sat Feb 21 22:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gnq28e$noj$1@news.spamcop.net... > anon wrote: >> >> Actually, the partition I want to change size of was created with the >> current version of PQ version 8.05. > > I assume you have unused, unallocated space just after this drive if you > wish to increase it? yes > > Are you trying to resize it from Windows or from the boot diskette or > cdrom that comes with Partition Magic? > both from windows - one set of errors and from dos prompt (not 'run-cmd' in windows) - other set of errors. I have computer set to dual boot - 1 windows xp, 2 dos (where I ghost image for backup.) > > AndrewB From me at privacy.net Sun Feb 22 13:49:59 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gnppti$3oj$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "AndrewB" wrote in message > news:gno9st$9ni$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Another thing I would suggest would be using disk utilities to ensure the >> integrity of your disk. Akin to the DOS CHKDSK utility, WinXP has the >> equivalent if you right click a disk, Properties, Tools, Error-Checking, >> and check both and click Start. If the volume about to be scanned is in >> use, it will be rescheduled for the next boot. And note, this is not a >> quick procedure. > > One important note to add: when you do this, at least in Vista, it creates > a startup entry to run CHKDSK. So after you run it once, before you > reboot, make sure you ferret out that startup item and DELETE IT! > Otherwise you'll end up waiting hours to use your PC (again). UPDATE Ran chkdsk - succeeded in resizing partition. Simple cure. Why did THAT fix the problem, all the error messages indicated something else was wrong? Thanks for the suggestion,. From me at privacy.net Sun Feb 22 13:51:44 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:55:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:gnnmgq$qol$1@news.spamcop.net... > anon wrote: >> "Mike Easter" > >> When I try to change the size of an existing PQ partition I get the >> following error messages (both in windows and DOS.) >> >> How to fix? > > I don't know the answer. I haven't seen any of that before. > > I would look at the partitions with another/different tool like part-ed > magic's tools -- GPartEd, PartEd, sfdisk. > > front page http://snipr.com/cc36g > overview http://snipr.com/cc38q > tools http://wiki.partedmagic.com/index.php/Programs > review of an earlier version http://www.raiden.net/?cat=2&aid=503 "In the > end, I was able to easily remove the unwanted partition, resize the two > remaining, and then get happily under way again with no hickups, glitches, > or problems." > > > > -- > Mike Easter > kibitzer, not SC admin > See my final post for solution. Thanks anyway. From connyank at cox.net Sun Feb 22 20:02:56 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:05:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] HD question with linux Message-ID: Had a HD die on me, /I think/ . So I pulled out the offending one and installed 2 old ones I had laying around, one of which had Ubuntu 8.10 on it which I kept for backup of my home part. Other drive I made the boot with Ubuntu 8.04 (8.10 has issues with my hardware so I don't prefer to use it). My ribbon cable had looked kinda twisted up and squished so I replaced that while installing the "new" drives and I'm thinking maybe the original drive didn't die after all. So I pulled out the 8.10 drive and plugged the original back in, reasoning that as long as I booted from hd0, the system wouldn't care, just wouldn't see a bad drive. Wrong, the machine, an old Dell Demension, wouldn't recognize either. Disconnected the problem drive and U 8.04 booted ok. Question is: Can a bad drive on secondary connection take the whole thing down even though boot drive is OK? Just curious... From connyank at cox.net Sun Feb 22 21:00:17 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Sun Feb 22 21:05:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: HD question with linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/22/2009 05:02 PM jg scribbled: > Had a HD die on me, /I think/ . > So I pulled out the offending one and installed 2 old ones I had laying > around, one of which had Ubuntu 8.10 on it which I kept for backup of my > home part. > Other drive I made the boot with Ubuntu 8.04 (8.10 has issues with my > hardware so I don't prefer to use it). > My ribbon cable had looked kinda twisted up and squished so I replaced > that while installing the "new" drives and I'm thinking maybe the > original drive didn't die after all. So I pulled out the 8.10 drive and > plugged the original back in, reasoning that as long as I booted from > hd0, the system wouldn't care, just wouldn't see a bad drive. > Wrong, the machine, an old Dell Demension, wouldn't recognize either. > > Disconnected the problem drive and U 8.04 booted ok. > > Question is: Can a bad drive on secondary connection take the whole > thing down even though boot drive is OK? > > Just curious... nevermind - didn't change the bios, so it was still looking for the 2nd drive, which I guess /is/ dead. what, ya mean HDs aren't plug & play?? kidding From MikeE at ster.invalid Sun Feb 22 23:07:49 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sun Feb 22 23:10:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: HD question with linux References: Message-ID: jg wrote: > Question is: Can a bad drive on secondary connection take the whole > thing down even though boot drive is OK? I don't think (either) I understand the question correctly (or, else) know the answer, but... When I am having hardware problems, I find the information I get from the bios very helpful. Maybe that information isn't useful in this issue, but if the bios doesn't see a hdd, I'm - that is, the hdd - is generally in some kind of serious trouble. I think what usually dies is the internal controller for the drive -- if you don't have a controller that works inside there and you don't want to spend some serious bucks at some kind of recovery place which can try to match the controllers they have lying around with the drive you have lost, then you should figger the hdd is dead. Naturally all of this 'what the bios sees' is way before anything is trying to boot. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From connyank at cox.net Mon Feb 23 00:08:57 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Mon Feb 23 00:10:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: HD question with linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/22/2009 08:07 PM Mike Easter scribbled: > jg wrote: > >> Question is: Can a bad drive on secondary connection take the whole >> thing down even though boot drive is OK? > > I don't think (either) I understand the question correctly (or, else) know > the answer, but... > > When I am having hardware problems, I find the information I get from the > bios very helpful. > > Maybe that information isn't useful in this issue, but if the bios doesn't > see a hdd, I'm - that is, the hdd - is generally in some kind of serious > trouble. I think what usually dies is the internal controller for the > drive -- if you don't have a controller that works inside there and you > don't want to spend some serious bucks at some kind of recovery place > which can try to match the controllers they have lying around with the > drive you have lost, then you should figger the hdd is dead. > > Naturally all of this 'what the bios sees' is way before anything is > trying to boot. > you are correct - see my reply to myself, thanks... From MikeE at ster.invalid Mon Feb 23 01:03:05 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Mon Feb 23 01:05:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: HD question with linux References: Message-ID: jg wrote: > Mike Easter scribbled: >> Naturally all of this 'what the bios sees' is way before anything is >> trying to boot. >> > you are correct - see my reply to myself, thanks... I once had a dead/dying hdd which if booted repetitively, sometimes the bios would see it (as a device). Being 'bios-visible' is a window to the possibility that you can get something off it. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From connyank at cox.net Mon Feb 23 01:49:21 2009 From: connyank at cox.net (jg) Date: Mon Feb 23 01:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: HD question with linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/22/2009 10:03 PM Mike Easter scribbled: > jg wrote: >> Mike Easter scribbled: > >>> Naturally all of this 'what the bios sees' is way before anything is >>> trying to boot. >>> >> you are correct - see my reply to myself, thanks... > > I once had a dead/dying hdd which if booted repetitively, sometimes the > bios would see it (as a device). funny you should mention it - I was/am having a problem with really slow shut downs. As I googled and tried, I was having a /real/ lot of reboots - in the middle of this, said HD expired - with just a beep. I was reading a post in the Ubuntu forum which was a response to a question on all this when it expired and my box just froze... > > Being 'bios-visible' is a window to the possibility that you can get > something off it. > > > twould seem this puppy is bios invisible... From loyal at spamcop.user Mon Feb 23 03:03:22 2009 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Mon Feb 23 03:05:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: anon wrote: > > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gnppti$3oj$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> "AndrewB" wrote in message >> news:gno9st$9ni$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> Another thing I would suggest would be using disk utilities to ensure >>> the integrity of your disk. Akin to the DOS CHKDSK utility, WinXP >>> has the equivalent if you right click a disk, Properties, Tools, >>> Error-Checking, and check both and click Start. If the volume about >>> to be scanned is in use, it will be rescheduled for the next boot. >>> And note, this is not a quick procedure. >> >> One important note to add: when you do this, at least in Vista, it >> creates a startup entry to run CHKDSK. So after you run it once, >> before you reboot, make sure you ferret out that startup item and >> DELETE IT! Otherwise you'll end up waiting hours to use your PC (again). > > UPDATE > > Ran chkdsk - succeeded in resizing partition. > > Simple cure. > > Why did THAT fix the problem, all the error messages indicated something > else was wrong? > > Thanks for the suggestion,. Probably because there was some latent corruption on your disk for some reason. Perhaps an improper shutdown. When doing low level disk activity like resizing partitions, it's *always* good to know that when you start there are no existing problems with the media. Last thing you'd want is for the resizing process to hang and really toast your disk. AndrewB From me at privacy.net Mon Feb 23 13:34:23 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Mon Feb 23 13:35:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gntl87$pbs$1@news.spamcop.net... > anon wrote: >> >> >> "Indigo" wrote in message >> news:gnppti$3oj$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> >>> "AndrewB" wrote in message >>> news:gno9st$9ni$1@news.spamcop.net... >>>> Another thing I would suggest would be using disk utilities to ensure >>>> the integrity of your disk. Akin to the DOS CHKDSK utility, WinXP has >>>> the equivalent if you right click a disk, Properties, Tools, >>>> Error-Checking, and check both and click Start. If the volume about to >>>> be scanned is in use, it will be rescheduled for the next boot. And >>>> note, this is not a quick procedure. >>> >>> One important note to add: when you do this, at least in Vista, it >>> creates a startup entry to run CHKDSK. So after you run it once, before >>> you reboot, make sure you ferret out that startup item and DELETE IT! >>> Otherwise you'll end up waiting hours to use your PC (again). >> >> UPDATE >> >> Ran chkdsk - succeeded in resizing partition. >> >> Simple cure. >> >> Why did THAT fix the problem, all the error messages indicated something >> else was wrong? >> >> Thanks for the suggestion,. > > > Probably because there was some latent corruption on your disk for some > reason. Perhaps an improper shutdown. > > When doing low level disk activity like resizing partitions, it's *always* > good to know that when you start there are no existing problems with the > media. Last thing you'd want is for the resizing process to hang and > really toast your disk. > > That happened one time I was restoring (actual restore, now windows 'restore') and it hung. Fortunately, I was able to start the restore over and it was successful. I use ghost for that backup so it fixed everything. Thanks again for the help. > AndrewB From me at privacy.net Mon Feb 23 13:39:47 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Mon Feb 23 13:40:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: "anon" wrote in message news:gnn1r3$dgg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > "David H. Lipman" wrote in message > news:gnl4em$8ta$1@news.spamcop.net... >> From: "anon" >> >> | I posted this over a month ago, no response. >> >> | Trying under different subject. >> >> | When updating the task scheduler I get the following error - I am >> logged in >> | as administrator. >> >> | Obviously task won't run >> >> | How to fix >> >> | --error message-- >> | "LiveUpdate.job" (LiveUpdate.lnk) 1/23/2009 11:13:29 AM ** ERROR ** >> | The attempt to retrieve account information for the specified task >> failed; >> | therefore, the task did not run. Either an error occurred, or no >> account >> | information existed for the task. >> | The specific error is: >> 0x8004130f:: No account information could be found in the Task Scheduler >> | security database for the task indicated. >> >> >> >> Did you apply a local account and password to the JOB (it doesn't inherit >> your >> credentials) ? >> > > None was requested - so did not supply any. Any other suggestions????? > >> -- >> Dave >> http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html >> Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp >> >> From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Feb 25 21:15:00 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Feb 25 21:15:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: partition magic question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "anon" wrote in message news:gns6or$etg$1@news.spamcop.net... > UPDATE > > Ran chkdsk - succeeded in resizing partition. > > Simple cure. > > Why did THAT fix the problem, all the error messages indicated something > else was wrong? > > Thanks for the suggestion,. > Glad to hear you're out of the woods. From kenbrody at spamcop.net Thu Feb 26 14:01:18 2009 From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody) Date: Thu Feb 26 14:05:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: [...] > Ah, shucks. OK. Check this... Lenovo has gone insane. If you were to > order a new laptop from them you might end up with a machine that comes > with 22 GB of "stuff" already on the primary drive. Now, we trade > machines around pretty frequently in our company. And one of the first > things we do, on getting a new computer of any kind, is to burn an image > of the drive to DVD. We've done this on every machine we've ever bought. > Until now. 22 GB? Preinstalled on the HD? [...] > I'm working on solving all of the issues. We'll see how that goes. Check out PC Decrapifier: http://majorgeeks.com/PC_De-Crapifier_d5223.html The PC Decrapifier will uninstall many of the common trialware and annoyances found on many of the PCs from big name OEMs. Below is the current list of software and items that the PC Decrapifier can detect and remove. You get to see the list of items it detects and then choose what will be removed automatically. [...] -- Kenneth Brody From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Thu Feb 26 20:16:48 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Thu Feb 26 20:20:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: lenovo is bugging me References: Message-ID: Kenneth Brody wrote: > Charles wrote: > [...] > >> Ah, shucks. OK. Check this... Lenovo has gone insane. If you >> were to order a new laptop from them you might end up with a machine >> that comes with 22 GB of "stuff" already on the primary drive. Now, >> we trade machines around pretty frequently in our company. And one >> of the first things we do, on getting a new computer of any kind, is >> to burn an image of the drive to DVD. We've done this on every >> machine we've ever bought. Until now. 22 GB? Preinstalled on the >> HD? > [...] >> I'm working on solving all of the issues. We'll see how that goes. > > Check out PC Decrapifier: > > http://majorgeeks.com/PC_De-Crapifier_d5223.html > > > The PC Decrapifier will uninstall many of the common trialware and > annoyances found on many of the PCs from big name OEMs. Below is > the current list of software and items that the PC Decrapifier can > detect and remove. You get to see the list of items it detects and > then choose what will be removed automatically. > [...] Too much snippage to know what transpired already, but ... could it be similar to this? Some companies ARE beginning to send preinstalled stuff on their external hard drives; haven't come across anything for internals though. In the case of Maxtor/Seagate, it was the Maxtor freebie backup software and was written in Linux, Knoppix IIRC. They're NTFS formatted and ready to go at the touch of a button and one program insallation by normal means. And nowhere do they clearly and concisely say you don't need any of that crap. Pretty minimal stuff, but I guess it's OK for newbies. Problem is, they advertise it to be FAT formatted, don't mention the preinstalled software until you get the drive, and ... well, IMO it just adds confusion to the mix for newbies or the uniniated. Regards, Twayne From DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net Thu Feb 26 20:33:17 2009 From: DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman) Date: Thu Feb 26 20:35:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: From: "anon" | "anon" wrote in message | news:gnn1r3$dgg$1@news.spamcop.net... >> "David H. Lipman" wrote in message >> news:gnl4em$8ta$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> From: "anon" >>> | I posted this over a month ago, no response. >>> | Trying under different subject. >>> | When updating the task scheduler I get the following error - I am >>> logged in >>> | as administrator. >>> | Obviously task won't run >>> | How to fix >>> | --error message-- >>> | "LiveUpdate.job" (LiveUpdate.lnk) 1/23/2009 11:13:29 AM ** ERROR ** >>> | The attempt to retrieve account information for the specified task >>> failed; >>> | therefore, the task did not run. Either an error occurred, or no >>> account >>> | information existed for the task. >>> | The specific error is: >>> 0x8004130f:: No account information could be found in the Task Scheduler >>> | security database for the task indicated. >>> Did you apply a local account and password to the JOB (it doesn't inherit >>> your >>> credentials) ? >> None was requested - so did not supply any. | Any other suggestions????? Did you apply and account and password with the minimum level of privileges ? -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 27 18:14:49 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 27 18:15:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem Message-ID: I had a licensed copy of ParentoLogics disk cleaner app (Pareto_PC.exe), it was a very good and fast hard drive junk file cleaner. My license ran out, but the software still runs, so I want to keep it, but every day I get a nag screen saying "payup or discontinue use". I've clicked "discontinue" multiple times and tried to create some inbound/outbound firewall rules to prevent them from sending me the nag screen or from know whether I've removed the software or not, but with no success. Below is the source code of the nag dialogue box. SamSpade sez http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd = 128.30.52.51, but on different days I've seen it come from 128.30.52.52 and 128.30.52.72. I created rules to block the program's ability to connect to the net _and_ rules to block all connections for the entire 128.30.52.1 - 128.30.52.72 IP range. Still no joy. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Is it possible that the nag screen is part of the app itself, meaning it's unaffected by my inbound/outbound block rules? Note, I *did* hit the "discontinue" button multiple times before setting up any block rules. Curiously, MIT owns the 128.30.52 block, not that I think that matters..... ParetoLogic Privacy Controls: Renew Now

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From MikeE at ster.invalid Fri Feb 27 18:51:42 2009 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Fri Feb 27 18:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > I had a licensed copy of ParentoLogics disk cleaner app > (Pareto_PC.exe), it was a very good and fast hard drive junk file > cleaner. My license ran out, but the software still runs, so I want to > keep it, but every day I get a nag screen saying "payup or discontinue > use". I've heard of nags when a trial v. expires, but nagging to 're-pay' a license is pushy. But I'll stay out of arguments about the difference of opinion between a developer and a user about what the licensing arrangements /should be/ according to the user. Strictly speaking, it could be argued that the developer gets to make the license rules and if the user doesn't like the rules, s/he shouldn't play. > I've clicked "discontinue" multiple times and tried to create > some inbound/outbound firewall rules to prevent them from sending me > the nag screen or from know whether I've removed the software or not, > but with no success. Maybe the nag screen is coming from the program. > Below is the source code of the nag dialogue box. What is below is an html page. > SamSpade sez http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd = 128.30.52.51, w3.org is just a body that makes guidelines for html structure. They aren't in this. That is a w3org page about html4 'loose'. > Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? You are chasing the wrong pony. I went to the site to see how much each of the products licensing/registration costs, but it won't tell me without registering. Strange. http://www.paretologic.com/downloads/index.aspx It will let me dowload the program, but it won't tell me the price. That seems 'backwards'. Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually pay for the license. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 27 21:15:20 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 27 21:20:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:go9ua4$noc$1@news.spamcop.net... > I went to the site to see how much each of the products > licensing/registration costs, but it won't tell me without registering. > Strange. http://www.paretologic.com/downloads/index.aspx > > It will let me dowload the program, but it won't tell me the price. That > seems 'backwards'. > > Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually pay for > the license. > That is totally plausible. I pay for some stuff, other stuff I use until the trial period runs out. So in theory, I should be able to uninstall the app, run a reg cleaner to wipe out any references to the app, run ipconfig/renew to get a new IP, then download and reinstall the app, appearing to them as a new user? From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Feb 27 21:30:06 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Feb 27 21:30:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:goa6nl$d6g$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually pay for >> the license. >> Just found an interesting piece of info -- I bought (and just renewed) the paid version of RegCure, also produced by ParentoLogic. I checked, and my license is valid until Jan, 2010. So it *shouldn't* be that product that the nag screen is complaining about, but I wonder....I downloaded the latest version of "ParetoLogic Privacy Controls", which is the disk cleaner I initially referred to....and like you mentioned, there is no price or license information contained on that page. Weird....there are so many variables within the disk cleaner app that it might be easier just to deal with the nag screen than to go thru all the effort of uninstall/reinstall and trying to remember what settings I had for the app.....maybe there's a config file somewhere that I can save re-use, I'll take a look. From me at privacy.net Fri Feb 27 22:54:21 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Fri Feb 27 22:55:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: "David H. Lipman" wrote in message news:go7fss$ao0$1@news.spamcop.net... > From: "anon" > > > > | "anon" wrote in message > | news:gnn1r3$dgg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > >>> "David H. Lipman" wrote in message >>> news:gnl4em$8ta$1@news.spamcop.net... >>>> From: "anon" > >>>> | I posted this over a month ago, no response. > >>>> | Trying under different subject. > >>>> | When updating the task scheduler I get the following error - I am >>>> logged in >>>> | as administrator. > >>>> | Obviously task won't run > >>>> | How to fix > >>>> | --error message-- >>>> | "LiveUpdate.job" (LiveUpdate.lnk) 1/23/2009 11:13:29 AM ** ERROR ** >>>> | The attempt to retrieve account information for the specified task >>>> failed; >>>> | therefore, the task did not run. Either an error occurred, or no >>>> account >>>> | information existed for the task. >>>> | The specific error is: >>>> 0x8004130f:: No account information could be found in the Task >>>> Scheduler >>>> | security database for the task indicated. > > > >>>> Did you apply a local account and password to the JOB (it doesn't >>>> inherit >>>> your >>>> credentials) ? > > >>> None was requested - so did not supply any. > > > | Any other suggestions????? > > > Did you apply and account and password with the minimum level of > privileges ? > > I am logged in as owner with admin privileges. After going through all the steps in the 'add a task' wizard, when I clicked finish - the error appeared. No information was requested, just the error message. > -- > Dave > http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html > Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp > > From DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net Fri Feb 27 23:21:42 2009 From: DLipman~nospam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman) Date: Fri Feb 27 23:25:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: From: "anon" | I am logged in as owner with admin privileges. | After going through all the steps in the 'add a task' wizard, when I clicked | finish - the error appeared. | No information was requested, just the error message. You must give the task a user account and password. Go to; C:\windows\Tasks Right-Click on the task and choose Properties. Find "Run-as" and set a password. -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Sat Feb 28 14:22:14 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Sat Feb 28 14:25:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > "Mike Easter" wrote in message > news:go9ua4$noc$1@news.spamcop.net... ... >> >> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually pay >> for the license. >> > > That is totally plausible. I pay for some stuff, other stuff I use > until the trial period runs out. So in theory, I should be able to > uninstall the app, run a reg cleaner to wipe out any references to > the app, run ipconfig/renew to get a new IP, then download and > reinstall the app, appearing to them as a new user? That might work, but IME programs like that somehow keep a "tag" or something somewhere on the disk that tells them it's already been installed once. They always seem to know somehow and it's not IP or 'net related, that much I know. So it has to be somethign stuck somewhere on the disk. Even after long, detailed registry and disk searches for anything related to the program and eliminating everything I could find, they still always knew! I once found something living at the very extreme end of the hard drive and thought I'd found it, but nope; that wasn't it. Fortunately I ran out of spare time because it was beginning to become an obsessive effort, but ... I've never heard of how it's done. It's not that it mattered, but it's the covertness of the thing that bugged me. I still can't imagine how it's done. Even reimaging the drive one time didn't get rid of it; all it accomplished was losing some info by the timeframe I chose; so it might be writing to some normally unwritten to part of the disk. And of course it was still there when I reminaged back to the last evening's date. Ooof! Sorry, didn't mean to get off on such a tangent! What I meant was, that might not work! Cheers, Twayne From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Sat Feb 28 14:24:03 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Sat Feb 28 14:25:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:goa6nl$d6g$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> >>> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually >>> pay for the license. >>> > > Just found an interesting piece of info -- I bought (and just > renewed) the paid version of RegCure, also produced by ParentoLogic. > I checked, and my license is valid until Jan, 2010. So it *shouldn't* > be that product that the nag screen is complaining about, but I > wonder....I downloaded the latest version of "ParetoLogic Privacy > Controls", which is the disk cleaner I initially referred to....and > like you mentioned, there is no price or license information > contained on that page. > Weird....there are so many variables within the disk cleaner app that > it might be easier just to deal with the nag screen than to go thru > all the effort of uninstall/reinstall and trying to remember what > settings I had for the app.....maybe there's a config file somewhere > that I can save re-use, I'll take a look. Actually, and I mean no disrespect, I try hard to avoid sites that won't give me a price until I hit the checkout. I might be curious enough to try the checkout to see what the price is, but I don't buy, and that's a helluva way to do business IMO. Cheers, Twayne From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 28 14:49:28 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Feb 28 14:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:go9s57$f0c$1@news.spamcop.net... :I had a licensed copy of ParentoLogics disk cleaner app (Pareto_PC.exe), it : was a very good and fast hard drive junk file cleaner. My license ran out, : but the software still runs, so I want to keep it, but every day I get a nag : screen saying "payup or discontinue use". I've clicked "discontinue" : multiple times and tried to create some inbound/outbound firewall rules to : prevent them from sending me the nag screen or from know whether I've : removed the software or not, but with no success. Below is the source code : of the nag dialogue box. : : SamSpade sez http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd = 128.30.52.51, but on : different days I've seen it come from 128.30.52.52 and 128.30.52.72. I : created rules to block the program's ability to connect to the net _and_ : rules to block all connections for the entire 128.30.52.1 - 128.30.52.72 IP : range. Still no joy. : : Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Is it possible that the nag screen is part : of the app itself, meaning it's unaffected by my inbound/outbound block : rules? Note, I *did* hit the "discontinue" button multiple times before : setting up any block rules. Curiously, MIT owns the 128.30.52 block, not : that I think that matters..... : I've used opendns.org to good effect (does a great job on double click) From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 28 14:51:18 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Feb 28 14:55:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message news:goc30j$ib1$1@news.spamcop.net... : Indigo wrote: : > "Indigo" wrote in message : > news:goa6nl$d6g$1@news.spamcop.net... : >>> : >>> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually : >>> pay for the license. : >>> : > : > Just found an interesting piece of info -- I bought (and just : > renewed) the paid version of RegCure, also produced by ParentoLogic. : > I checked, and my license is valid until Jan, 2010. So it *shouldn't* : > be that product that the nag screen is complaining about, but I : > wonder....I downloaded the latest version of "ParetoLogic Privacy : > Controls", which is the disk cleaner I initially referred to....and : > like you mentioned, there is no price or license information : > contained on that page. : > Weird....there are so many variables within the disk cleaner app that : > it might be easier just to deal with the nag screen than to go thru : > all the effort of uninstall/reinstall and trying to remember what : > settings I had for the app.....maybe there's a config file somewhere : > that I can save re-use, I'll take a look. : : Actually, and I mean no disrespect, I try hard to avoid sites that won't : give me a price until I hit the checkout. I might be curious enough to : try the checkout to see what the price is, but I don't buy, and that's a : helluva way to do business IMO. : : I'm a bit bent by the ones that don't give an as shipped price until you have entered all the data including CC. From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 28 14:53:32 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Feb 28 14:55:09 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message news:goc2t6$i5v$1@news.spamcop.net... : Indigo wrote: : > "Mike Easter" wrote in message : > news:go9ua4$noc$1@news.spamcop.net... : ... : >> : >> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually pay : >> for the license. : >> : > : > That is totally plausible. I pay for some stuff, other stuff I use : > until the trial period runs out. So in theory, I should be able to : > uninstall the app, run a reg cleaner to wipe out any references to : > the app, run ipconfig/renew to get a new IP, then download and : > reinstall the app, appearing to them as a new user? : : That might work, but IME programs like that somehow keep a "tag" or : something somewhere on the disk that tells them it's already been : installed once. They always seem to know somehow and it's not IP or : 'net related, that much I know. So it has to be somethign stuck : somewhere on the disk. Even after long, detailed registry and disk : searches for anything related to the program and eliminating everything : I could find, they still always knew! I once found something living at : the very extreme end of the hard drive and thought I'd found it, but : nope; that wasn't it. Fortunately I ran out of spare time because it : was beginning to become an obsessive effort, but ... I've never heard of : how it's done. : It's not that it mattered, but it's the covertness of the thing that : bugged me. I still can't imagine how it's done. Even reimaging the : drive one time didn't get rid of it; all it accomplished was losing some : info by the timeframe I chose; so it might be writing to some normally : unwritten to part of the disk. And of course it was still there when I : reminaged back to the last evening's date. : Sensitive point for me as well Adobe dose that with their 30 day demo which is not so much a problem but then when you do buy the software you play hell getting the legal copy to work due to the odd bit that's hidden, From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Feb 28 15:12:47 2009 From: nobody at spamcop.net (bar0) Date: Sat Feb 28 15:15:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:goc4or$kks$2@news.spamcop.net... > > "Twayne" wrote in message > news:goc30j$ib1$1@news.spamcop.net... > : Indigo wrote: > : > "Indigo" wrote in message > : > news:goa6nl$d6g$1@news.spamcop.net... > : >>> > : >>> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually > : >>> pay for the license. ..... > : > : Actually, and I mean no disrespect, I try hard to avoid sites that won't > : give me a price until I hit the checkout. I might be curious enough to > : try the checkout to see what the price is, but I don't buy, and that's a > : helluva way to do business IMO. > : > : > I'm a bit bent by the ones that don't give an as shipped price until you > have entered all the data including CC. Umm... I find the safest thing is to assume, until proven otherwise, that anything on the internet is a scam. There are enough (paltry though that is) that prove otherwise that I have felt no compulsion or desire to deal with the likes of businesses described above. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Sat Feb 28 15:20:47 2009 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Sat Feb 28 15:25:07 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Twayne" wrote in message > news:goc30j$ib1$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Indigo wrote: >>> "Indigo" wrote in message >>> news:goa6nl$d6g$1@news.spamcop.net... >>>>> >>>>> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually >>>>> pay for the license. >>>>> >>> >>> Just found an interesting piece of info -- I bought (and just >>> renewed) the paid version of RegCure, also produced by ParentoLogic. >>> I checked, and my license is valid until Jan, 2010. So it >>> *shouldn't* be that product that the nag screen is complaining >>> about, but I wonder....I downloaded the latest version of >>> "ParetoLogic Privacy Controls", which is the disk cleaner I >>> initially referred to....and like you mentioned, there is no price >>> or license information contained on that page. >>> Weird....there are so many variables within the disk cleaner app >>> that it might be easier just to deal with the nag screen than to go >>> thru all the effort of uninstall/reinstall and trying to remember >>> what settings I had for the app.....maybe there's a config file >>> somewhere that I can save re-use, I'll take a look. >> >> Actually, and I mean no disrespect, I try hard to avoid sites that >> won't give me a price until I hit the checkout. I might be curious >> enough to try the checkout to see what the price is, but I don't >> buy, and that's a helluva way to do business IMO. >> >> > I'm a bit bent by the ones that don't give an as shipped price until > you have entered all the data including CC. I don't mind the taxes so much because I can usually mentall estimate those; what really gets me though is the S&H when it shows up. Or, it used to anyway. If I don't see a filled out invoice by the time I have to enter my cc or go to Paypal, I look elsewhere. No one and no thing is indispensable, especially when Quality and Service is all they have left to distinguish themselves in this world. Cheers, Twayne From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 28 15:49:02 2009 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Feb 28 15:50:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: ParentoLogic Nag Screen problem References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message news:goc6av$oga$1@news.spamcop.net... : Frog Prince wrote: : > "Twayne" wrote in message : > news:goc30j$ib1$1@news.spamcop.net... : >> Indigo wrote: : >>> "Indigo" wrote in message : >>> news:goa6nl$d6g$1@news.spamcop.net... : >>>>> : >>>>> Maybe you just registered and downloaded but you didn't actually : >>>>> pay for the license. : >>>>> : >>> : >>> Just found an interesting piece of info -- I bought (and just : >>> renewed) the paid version of RegCure, also produced by ParentoLogic. : >>> I checked, and my license is valid until Jan, 2010. So it : >>> *shouldn't* be that product that the nag screen is complaining : >>> about, but I wonder....I downloaded the latest version of : >>> "ParetoLogic Privacy Controls", which is the disk cleaner I : >>> initially referred to....and like you mentioned, there is no price : >>> or license information contained on that page. : >>> Weird....there are so many variables within the disk cleaner app : >>> that it might be easier just to deal with the nag screen than to go : >>> thru all the effort of uninstall/reinstall and trying to remember : >>> what settings I had for the app.....maybe there's a config file : >>> somewhere that I can save re-use, I'll take a look. : >> : >> Actually, and I mean no disrespect, I try hard to avoid sites that : >> won't give me a price until I hit the checkout. I might be curious : >> enough to try the checkout to see what the price is, but I don't : >> buy, and that's a helluva way to do business IMO. : >> : >> : > I'm a bit bent by the ones that don't give an as shipped price until : > you have entered all the data including CC. : : I don't mind the taxes so much because I can usually mentall estimate : those; what really gets me though is the S&H when it shows up. Or, it : used to anyway. If I don't see a filled out invoice by the time I have : to enter my cc or go to Paypal, I look elsewhere. No one and no thing : is indispensable, especially when Quality and Service is all they have : left to distinguish themselves in this world. : If I don;t know the as shipped price before they require CC etc I drop the deal. I've written to the provider and usually get a 'it's a programming requirement' or 'every body does it this way'. From me at privacy.net Sat Feb 28 20:59:40 2009 From: me at privacy.net (anon) Date: Sat Feb 28 21:00:08 2009 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: task scheduler problem References: Message-ID: "David H. Lipman" wrote in message news:goae4l$u3j$1@news.spamcop.net... > From: "anon" > > > > | I am logged in as owner with admin privileges. > > | After going through all the steps in the 'add a task' wizard, when I > clicked > | finish - the error appeared. > > | No information was requested, just the error message. > > You must give the task a user account and password. > > Go to; C:\windows\Tasks > > Right-Click on the task and choose Properties. > > Find "Run-as" and set a password. > > Logged in as owner/admin. Tried to do above and got SAME error as quoted before. (no adm privileges) > > -- > Dave > http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html > Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp > >