From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Wed Oct 1 13:04:13 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Wed Oct 1 13:05:06 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird ground loop problem References: Message-ID: Here's what I boiled your original post down to. See if you think this is right. Correct at will if you see this post as having any possible value. Feel free to ignore; this wasn't much work and parts are even boilerplate. ======= ------------ ... 1st time PC/Monitor has been turned on with the rest of the setup > > I turned on the stereo > to listen to some computer audio. I heard this horrible humming noise the intensity (loudness) of the > humming changed drastically when I jiggled the input line from the > PC, _and_ when I moved close to or away from the stereo itself! found > a proper 3-line cord, and plugged the PC back in. Stereo speakers hum with PC on, no hum with it off. PC/Monitor on 3-wire ext cord plugged into same surge protector stereo is plugged into. Line-in seems to have noise when PC is plugged in. Unplug PC ext cord, , hum stops. Is 1st time PC & stereo turned on together. Turntable gnd integrity OK visually at the stereo point. Else unknown. ======== ----------- ------- original ------------- ... ... I turned on the stereo to listen to some computer audio. I heard this horrible humming noise coming out of the speakers, and the intensity (loudness) of the humming changed drastically when I jiggled the input line from the PC, and when I moved close to or away from the stereo itself! After some fiddling, I discovered that I had used non-grounding converter connectors to plug in my basement PC and monitor (which is a foot away from the stereo) into a two-wire extension cord that was plugged into the same surge protector that the stereo was plugged into -- figuring that I had a ground loop problem, I ditched the converters, found a proper 3-line cord, and plugged the PC back in. ============= Apparently the cord change did "nothing", right? That means the hum is STILL affected by moving closer to/away from the stereo, right? It's important. How much change does it make? Lots? Barely noticeable? Are you certain it changes or do you just step into/out of a node in the room? Your physical presence changing the amplitude of the hum normally indicates there is still a missing earth ground somewhere. I have seen a ground loop cause such a thing but only in very early prototypes where a ckt card was either missing a ground or the digital/analog grounds got mixed up. NOTE: When checking for grounds continuity, it is necessary to unplug all possible items from the ogjects being tested or you could get false readings through other equipment. Other than, or maybe during, your visual examination you should sit down and create a schematic of the grounding system you have created. Every piece of equipment is a black box but may have several earth or neutral connection paths: from the receptacle to the equipment and each of the equipment's connection points, including the jacks, wires and anything that interconnects equipment. The absolute best grounding system is what's called a "star" connection. YOu're not likely to accomplish that with your setup though. You also have to consider if/whether you can separate digital from analog grounds. Internally in the equipment these are often separate. Whether they come out separately depends on the design and a certain amount of guessing is necessary; point is, where possible, consider it. Else you'll have to forget it. I am not saying to go into the internals of the equipment for any of this. The equipment is nothing but boxes but the connections to those boxes often give us a lot of information. Continuity of every ground/shield/wire/current carrying object has to be verified. It's easy for a cable to "go bad" seemingly overnight. Anyway, such a sketch might go a long ways toward ideas where you could improve the grounding system. --------------- Is the hum 60Hz or 120Hz? If you can tell. -------------- Let's rule out the obvious things first. --------------- One possible source of hum: -- Flourescent Lights; one with an old or failing ballast. If yoy have flourescents in the room or next room, turn them off and see if they make a difference. But I'd expect your stereo to pick that up if it were the case. --------------- -- Can you tell if the hum is square-ish or sine wave? -------------- Get a receptacle checker from Radio Shack or any electronics store. You plug it in and it tests the polarity/connections of the receptable and displays results in a set of usually 3 or 4 LEDs. If you can't get that or prefer the more direct method: Get a cheap multimeter that wil read ohms and ac volts. Radio Shack stuff is pretty crutty and will serve nicely for this purpose. If it beeps on a short, that's even handier. Nominal line voltages usually run from about 110- to 126 Vac. I'll be calling that 120Vac. -----direct method--------- -- Unplug everything from the receptacles being used. Side question: How many duplex receptacles are you using? -- Hot = the narrow blade opening in the receptaclle. Neutral = the wide blade opening in the receptacle. Earth = the round opening. Measure each receptacle (2 per duples) as follows: Hot - Neutral 120Vac Hot - Earth 120 Vac If this reads a steady 0.0, then Hot and Neutral are reversed. Very likely the source of the hum. You'll have to rewire the receptacle. Black to the narrow blade hole and white to the wider one. If hot - earth reads 0, then neutral - earth will probably read 120 Vac. Otherwise the receptacle wouldn't work to power anything. OFTEN this is a cause of HUM. Neutral to Earth - 0.0 Vac. ANY voltage read here indicates a "phantom voltage" and will mean either the Earth or the Neutral are disconnected somewhere between the receptable and the breaker box. neutral - earth 0.0Vac. If you read between probably 20 to 90 Vac here, then either the earth or the ground is open and not connected back to the breaker box. If you were to put any resistor above say 10k up to 470k across neutral to earth, that voltage would disappear. IF as expected you read a phantom voltage, and it disappears, there is in reality no voltage there; you are reading induced voltages from the air. If a resistor (or wet finger if you're brave) drops the voltage to 0: -- AFTER having done the preceding: Using the low ohms scale on the meter measure the ohms between earth/neutral. It should show a short of just a few ohms if it's auto-ranging; the resistance of the wiring to/from the breaker box. But it'll more like read open because the earth wire is open and doesn't make it back to the breker box. It's probably missing or loose at the receptacle. IFF however the voltage between earth/ground doesn't disappear with a resistor across them, or your finger, then you have a serious wiring problem in the house and need to contact an electrician ASAP. I seriously doubt this will be the case but stranger things have happened. ------end direct method --------- ===================== Still just as bad. while the PC was unplugged from the power strip, the interference on the PC audio line-in disappeared. So I plugged/unplugged the PC extension cord several times and confirmed that with it disconnected the signal noise wasn't there. ---------------------- Is everything plugged into the same power strip and the same duplex receptacle? -- All equipment needs to get power from the same receptacle. -- Try another surge suppresor stip or eliminate it is you can. Damaged MOVs can create noise on the earth ground. This is likely a symptom more than a pointer, but it does seem to indicate something is causing either the line-in to oscillate or whatever feeds it. ============= That PC was never powered on since I initially set it up to record audio from my LP player, and there was no interference for months until yesterday. ------------------- This is confusing because you seem to say the PC was NEVER turned on at the same time as the stereo, but then you want to know what changed? So, has the hum under the situation you described always been there or hasn't it? I'm confused because except for the ending part here yuo seem to say they were never powered on at the same time. I don't know how much it matters, but ... it probably does in the long run. ----------------- I checked the LP player ground wire and it was nice and tight on the back of the stereo (I didn't check it at the player itself, I'm pretty sure it's hardwired there). ------------------- Not sufficient: The only way to verify the existance of a valid connection is by measuring voltage or ohms. In this case you need to measure the ohms between the chassis of the stereo to the turntable deck; it should be way less than one ohm. -- ANY time you check this sort of thing it's important to have everything else disconnected from it so you dont' make yur measurements through unexpected external routes by accident. e.g. in this case everything has to be disconnected from both the stereo and turntable deck. What the hell changed and/or happened overnight that could cause this problem? -------------- end original ------------------------------------ You are right to do the eyeball exams first of course. Often that reveals a culprit. If however it reveals nothing, you have to go step by step through the process and sometimes all you end up with is the process of elimination but often even that works. FWIW, I have a fairly extensive background experience in grounding systems and chasing ground loops. I don't really think you have a literal ground loop, but it may be an effective way to explain things. Final thought: PC/monitor on an extension cord. Everything else is into surge suppressor. Extension cords are famous for insufficient earth wiring. Either eliminate the extension cord AND surge suppresor strip somehow, or put everything (meaning surge suppressor) on like extension cords. And a final set of questions: Have you hand made all/most of your interconnecting cables or are you using store bought? If you hand made any of them, did you make sure to use equivalent cable? How long are the longest interconnecting cables? By itself, does the PC sound system work properly? Say, with a mic and a DVD or whatever for a sound source? Assuming you're still reading , sorry for being so long winded but ground problems can be real pains to figure out. And when you get to the final solution you often wonder why you didn't see that the first time. Twayne -- The latest survey shows that three out of four people make up 75% of the population. From user at domain.invalid Wed Oct 1 23:30:46 2008 From: user at domain.invalid (User) Date: Wed Oct 1 23:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird ground loop problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 29.09.2008 19:08, Indigo wrote: --- Original Message --- > As I posted in this group a month or two ago, I ran a mono signal wire from > the line-out on my PC to the stereo system in my basement so I could listen > to streaming audio in my workshop. After some initial snafus, I got it wired > properly and working perfectly (until now). I used 3.5 mm jacks with solder > connections to create the cable, and was extremely careful to cover both the > hot terminal and the ground shield with black electrical tape to prevent any > shorts in the jacks. > > Yesterday while doing laundry in the basement, I turned on the stereo to > listen to some computer audio. I heard this horrible humming noise coming > out of the speakers, and the intensity (loudness) of the humming changed > drastically when I jiggled the input line from the PC, _and_ when I moved > close to or away from the stereo itself! After some fiddling, I discovered > that I had used non-grounding converter connectors to plug in my basement PC > and monitor (which is a foot away from the stereo) into a two-wire extension > cord that was plugged into the same surge protector that the stereo was > plugged into -- figuring that I had a ground loop problem, I ditched the > converters, found a proper 3-line cord, and plugged the PC back in. > > Problem solved, right? Nope. Still just as bad. Then I realized that while > the PC was unplugged from the power strip, the interference on the PC audio > line-in disappeared. So I plugged/unplugged the PC extension cord several > times and confirmed that with it disconnected the signal noise wasn't there. > Now I'm really stumped! That PC was _never_ powered on since I initially set > it up to record audio from my LP player, and there was no interference for > months until yesterday. I checked the LP player ground wire and it was nice > and tight on the back of the stereo (I didn't check it at the player itself, > I'm pretty sure it's hardwired there). What the hell changed and/or happened > overnight that could cause this problem? > "short" answers: 1. Flourescent ballast leak 2. Faulty ground at fuse/breaker box. From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Thu Oct 2 08:46:13 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Oct 2 08:50:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound Message-ID: I've had this problem a couple of months now and can't find a solution to it. It's affecting all sound, systems sound, CDs, video, sound files... It isn't continuously present, I start playing some sound files for example and the first couple of tracks may play OK then I hear a sort of stuttering sound and sometimes sound will slow down as well as stuttering yet play at the correct pitch. If I then pause play for a few seconds and then resume it corrects itself until next time which could be a few minutes later or an hour later. System is XP Pro SP2 with patches up to date. SP3 not installed yet. Mother board Winfast 761GXK8MB Chipset Foxconn Athlon Processor AMD Athlon(tm) 64 3500+ The mother board has on board sound AC97 driver. Have downloaded and installed latest AC97 driver to no effect. Foxconn say to reinstall OS, but, everything else is working fine and I have the feeling they are just avoiding the issue. I don't want to go down that road until I've explored everything else. Running SiSoftware Sandra indicates PCI latency too high, but, MB manual doesn't say how to lower it if that is the reason. Anyone come across this issue and know how to resolve it? -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From joegill at removethis Thu Oct 2 09:16:17 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Thu Oct 2 09:20:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:gc2fqi$ie3$1@news.spamcop.net... > I've had this problem a couple of months now and can't find a solution to > it. It's affecting all sound, systems sound, CDs, video, sound files... > It isn't continuously present, I start playing some sound files for > example and the first couple of tracks may play OK then I hear a sort of > stuttering sound and sometimes sound will slow down as well as stuttering > yet play at the correct pitch. If I then pause play for a few seconds and > then resume it corrects itself until next time which could be a few > minutes later or an hour later. > > System is XP Pro SP2 with patches up to date. SP3 not installed yet. > > Mother board Winfast 761GXK8MB > Chipset Foxconn Athlon > Processor AMD Athlon(tm) 64 3500+ > > The mother board has on board sound AC97 driver. > Have downloaded and installed latest AC97 driver to no effect. > Foxconn say to reinstall OS, but, everything else is working fine and I > have the feeling they are just avoiding the issue. I don't want to go > down that road until I've explored everything else. > Running SiSoftware Sandra indicates PCI latency too high, but, MB manual > doesn't say how to lower it if that is the reason. > > Anyone come across this issue and know how to resolve it? > > -- > Rob > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ > http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ > http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ I have had it happen to me quite a bit.. But it is my own fault :) I have an old P-III 500mhz processor with only 512M of memory, so the PC is overloaded most of the time. What you need to look at is what is running at the same time when the problem occurs. Go to Task Manager, process tab... Look on the bottom line @ 'Commit charge'. The first number is the amount of 'virtual memory' in use and second if the maximum amount of 'virtual memory' in use. It has been my experience, that when the amount of memory in use, starts climbing above the amount of installed memory, AND CPU usage is high, then problems can result. Now look at processes... Click on the 'CPU' heading twice so that the tasks are sorted by descending CPU usage. When you are having this problem, and I assume you are running 100%, see what task(s) are the large consumers of CPU. Find out why they are using so much. In my case, the usual culprits are: - Norton update and/or 'quick scan' after update - PSI or other tasks that schedule themselves on a regular basis - Windows update.... Post back your results/thoughts... From MikeE at ster.invalid Thu Oct 2 09:22:11 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Thu Oct 2 09:25:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > It isn't continuously present, I start playing some sound > files for example and the first couple of tracks may play OK then I > hear a sort of stuttering sound and sometimes sound will slow down as > well as stuttering yet play at the correct pitch. If I then pause play > for a few seconds and then resume it corrects itself until next time > which could be a few minutes later or an hour later. > System is XP Pro SP2 with patches up to date. SP3 not installed yet. > > Mother board Winfast 761GXK8MB > Chipset Foxconn Athlon > Processor AMD Athlon(tm) 64 3500+ > > The mother board has on board sound AC97 driver. > Have downloaded and installed latest AC97 driver to no effect. > Foxconn say to reinstall OS, but, everything else is working fine and I > have the feeling they are just avoiding the issue. I don't want to go > down that road until I've explored everything else. > Running SiSoftware Sandra indicates PCI latency too high, but, MB manual > doesn't say how to lower it if that is the reason. > > Anyone come across this issue and know how to resolve it? I haven't come across the issue, but I would be curious about how the sound works with some linux distro live CD, say something like Ubuntu 8.04 or maybe Mepis7 or Mint5. That is one way of taking some mysterious OS or driver relationship with the hardware out of the equation without any pain, like 'reinstall OS'. You find and dl the iso and burn the distro CD, boot from the livecd and then play some sounds. You don't have to install anything. That might sound like a little trouble, but my experience is that when there is some 'possibly hardware, possibly OS' related issue going on, I would like to get some kind of watershed information as soon as possible. If the linux distro does it also, then you are looking at a hardware problem and maybe you would need to replace the onboard sound with a card. If the linux distro doesn't do it, then you are back at the job of troubleshooting the XP OS/driver relationship. The best way to find linux distros is to go to DistroWatch, find a distro in the R column or with the DW tool, hookup to its site or download mirror and go from there. A newsgroup where there are all kinds of brainy people about hardware/mobo related observations - 'PCI latency too high' - is alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From user at domain.invalid Thu Oct 2 09:46:12 2008 From: user at domain.invalid (User) Date: Thu Oct 2 09:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02.10.2008 07:46, Canopus wrote: --- Original Message --- > I've had this problem a couple of months now and can't find a solution to > it. It's affecting all sound, systems sound, CDs, video, sound files... > It isn't continuously present, I start playing some sound files for > example and the first couple of tracks may play OK then I hear a sort of > stuttering sound and sometimes sound will slow down as well as stuttering > yet play at the correct pitch. If I then pause play for a few seconds and > then resume it corrects itself until next time which could be a few > minutes later or an hour later. > > System is XP Pro SP2 with patches up to date. SP3 not installed yet. > > Mother board Winfast 761GXK8MB > Chipset Foxconn Athlon > Processor AMD Athlon(tm) 64 3500+ > > The mother board has on board sound AC97 driver. > Have downloaded and installed latest AC97 driver to no effect. > Foxconn say to reinstall OS, but, everything else is working fine and I > have the feeling they are just avoiding the issue. I don't want to go > down that road until I've explored everything else. > Running SiSoftware Sandra indicates PCI latency too high, but, MB manual > doesn't say how to lower it if that is the reason. > > Anyone come across this issue and know how to resolve it? > Temporarily disable your AV and/or any diagnostic app that may be running in the background, try again. From spam at zootal.nospam.com Thu Oct 2 12:36:20 2008 From: spam at zootal.nospam.com (Zootal) Date: Thu Oct 2 12:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird ground loop problem References: Message-ID: "User" wrote in message news:gc1f7a$oo4$1@news.spamcop.net... > On 29.09.2008 19:08, Indigo wrote: > > --- Original Message --- > >> As I posted in this group a month or two ago, I ran a mono signal wire >> from >> the line-out on my PC to the stereo system in my basement so I could >> listen >> to streaming audio in my workshop. After some initial snafus, I got it >> wired >> properly and working perfectly (until now). I used 3.5 mm jacks with >> solder >> connections to create the cable, and was extremely careful to cover both >> the >> hot terminal and the ground shield with black electrical tape to prevent >> any >> shorts in the jacks. >> >> Yesterday while doing laundry in the basement, I turned on the stereo to >> listen to some computer audio. I heard this horrible humming noise coming >> out of the speakers, and the intensity (loudness) of the humming changed >> drastically when I jiggled the input line from the PC, _and_ when I moved >> close to or away from the stereo itself! After some fiddling, I >> discovered >> that I had used non-grounding converter connectors to plug in my basement >> PC >> and monitor (which is a foot away from the stereo) into a two-wire >> extension >> cord that was plugged into the same surge protector that the stereo was >> plugged into -- figuring that I had a ground loop problem, I ditched the >> converters, found a proper 3-line cord, and plugged the PC back in. >> >> Problem solved, right? Nope. Still just as bad. Then I realized that >> while >> the PC was unplugged from the power strip, the interference on the PC >> audio >> line-in disappeared. So I plugged/unplugged the PC extension cord several >> times and confirmed that with it disconnected the signal noise wasn't >> there. >> Now I'm really stumped! That PC was _never_ powered on since I initially >> set >> it up to record audio from my LP player, and there was no interference >> for >> months until yesterday. I checked the LP player ground wire and it was >> nice >> and tight on the back of the stereo (I didn't check it at the player >> itself, >> I'm pretty sure it's hardwired there). What the hell changed and/or >> happened >> overnight that could cause this problem? >> > > "short" answers: > > 1. Flourescent ballast leak > 2. Faulty ground at fuse/breaker box. > Don't forget: 3. Faulty ground at any receptacle box that the wires run through. I have several faulty grounds in 8 year old wiring because whoever wired it simply twisted the ground wires together in the boxes. It may meet code , but it sure as h*ll doesn't make good grounds. From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Thu Oct 2 14:50:18 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Oct 2 14:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Joe Gill scribed: >What you need to look at is what is running at the same time when the >problem occurs. >Go to Task Manager, process tab... I've been doing exactly that, sorry, I should have mentioned it. I've never seen commit charge go above 500M / 2920M and have 1.5Gb of RAM installed. CPU usage hovers around 10% when stuttering happens so it doesn't look like those resources being maxed out. Under Processes there seems to be nothing unusual. No sudden increase in CPU usage by any application or unusual memory usage by any when it happens. AVG seems to be a constant 52000K and a bit, Firefox with quite a few tabs open will rise to around 75000K and release it nicely when tabs are closed. They are the two highest users of memory, below those are the normal systems processes except for the Diskeeper Service, but, that has a below normal priority. No harm in turning off background defrag though just to check if it could be anything to do with that. I'm beginning to wonder if it is hardware related. Talking to the man in my local computer shop he reckons he wont use Foxconn motherboards any more due to problems with them. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Thu Oct 2 14:56:44 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Oct 2 15:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Mike Easter scribed: >I haven't come across the issue, but I would be curious about how the >sound works with some linux distro live CD Now that's a good idea. Somewhere I am sure I have a Lindows distro complete with media player etc. I tried it a few times a couple of years ago, but, was running on only 500M of RAM at the time which was quickly eaten up, but, with an overall healthier system now it should point out whether it is OS or driver issue or a hardware issue. If I can't find it then I'll download one of the distros you mentioned. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Thu Oct 2 16:29:14 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Oct 2 16:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Canopus scribed: >Joe Gill scribed: > >>What you need to look at is what is running at the same time when the >>problem occurs. >>Go to Task Manager, process tab... > >I've been doing exactly that, sorry, I should have mentioned it. I've >never seen commit charge go above 500M / 2920M and have 1.5Gb of RAM >installed. CPU usage hovers around 10% when stuttering happens so it >doesn't look like those resources being maxed out. Under Processes there >seems to be nothing unusual. No sudden increase in CPU usage by any >application or unusual memory usage by any when it happens. AVG seems to >be a constant 52000K and a bit, Firefox with quite a few tabs open will >rise to around 75000K and release it nicely when tabs are closed. They >are the two highest users of memory, below those are the normal systems >processes except for the Diskeeper Service, but, that has a below normal >priority. No harm in turning off background defrag though just to check >if it could be anything to do with that. > >I'm beginning to wonder if it is hardware related. Talking to the man in >my local computer shop he reckons he wont use Foxconn motherboards any >more due to problems with them. I may have found the culprit, it could very well be DKService.exe, the Diskeeper service. I've been playing music and monitoring Processes since replying above and have had two instances of stuttering sound, on both occasions DkServices sprang into life with CPU usage for it ranging between 2% to 14%. The CPU usage should not be the issue and Diskeeper should not attempt to defrag any partitions in use, but, it will periodically check all volumes and the stuttering is happening when it seems to be doing this. It never used to interfere with sound, I wonder why it's doing so now, perhaps it is also due to PCI latency being set to high as well. Further monitoring under way. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From joegill at removethis Thu Oct 2 18:02:25 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Thu Oct 2 18:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:gc3auo$6h7$1@news.spamcop.net... > Canopus scribed: > >>Joe Gill scribed: >> >>>What you need to look at is what is running at the same time when the >>>problem occurs. >>>Go to Task Manager, process tab... >> >>I've been doing exactly that, sorry, I should have mentioned it. I've >>never seen commit charge go above 500M / 2920M and have 1.5Gb of RAM >>installed. CPU usage hovers around 10% when stuttering happens so it >>doesn't look like those resources being maxed out. Under Processes there >>seems to be nothing unusual. No sudden increase in CPU usage by any >>application or unusual memory usage by any when it happens. AVG seems to >>be a constant 52000K and a bit, Firefox with quite a few tabs open will >>rise to around 75000K and release it nicely when tabs are closed. They >>are the two highest users of memory, below those are the normal systems >>processes except for the Diskeeper Service, but, that has a below normal >>priority. No harm in turning off background defrag though just to check >>if it could be anything to do with that. >> >>I'm beginning to wonder if it is hardware related. Talking to the man in >>my local computer shop he reckons he wont use Foxconn motherboards any >>more due to problems with them. > > I may have found the culprit, it could very well be DKService.exe, the > Diskeeper service. I've been playing music and monitoring Processes since > replying above and have had two instances of stuttering sound, on both > occasions DkServices sprang into life with CPU usage for it ranging > between 2% to 14%. The CPU usage should not be the issue and Diskeeper > should not attempt to defrag any partitions in use, but, it will > periodically check all volumes and the stuttering is happening when it > seems to be doing this. It never used to interfere with sound, I wonder > why it's doing so now, perhaps it is also due to PCI latency being set to > high as well. > > Further monitoring under way. > > -- > Rob > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ > http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ > http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ I was going to respond, but your responded to yourself... :<) I would look at the options on DiskKeeper, maybe setting it to run at night... I don't think CPU is an issue. DK is probably requesting a 'lock' on some area or service and not releasing it. Then the audio goes after it and has a problem I may be wrong, but DK works when the partition is in use also. It just makes sure it has a 'lock' on the areas it wants to manipulate. Some thoughts: 1) See if there are settings in DK to reduce all utilization, or do it in off hours. 2) Also since you are using an 'on-board' audio, you may want to experiment with a card and see if that changes the behavior. Discussion about PCI latency that I have seen talk about 'on-board' audio 3) You may want to 'Google' the following set of words and look at references: Winfast 761GXK8MB latency adjust From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Thu Oct 2 18:43:29 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Oct 2 18:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Joe Gill scribed: >I would look at the options on DiskKeeper, maybe setting it to run at >night... >I don't think CPU is an issue. DK is probably requesting a 'lock' on some >area or service and not releasing it. Then the audio goes after it and has >a problem >I may be wrong, but DK works when the partition is in use also. It just >makes sure it has a 'lock' on the areas it wants to manipulate. >Some thoughts: >1) See if there are settings in DK to reduce all utilization, or do it in >off hours. >2) Also since you are using an 'on-board' audio, you may want to >experiment with a card and see if that changes the behavior. Discussion >about PCI latency that I have seen talk about 'on-board' audio I think for the time being it's best if I turn off Auto Defrag when I'm playing media. Auto defrag when disabled also disables Frag Shield which monitors and prevents MFTs fragmenting and if I understand correctly DK only defrags MFTs when auto defrag is on. I can configure DK for auto defrag at specific times and days, but, as I never know when the muse to play media will strike I suppose I'm better off switching auto defrag on and off myself until I get to the root of the problem. A Google for Winfast 761GXK8MB latency adjust brought up nothing useful and some stuff that was so technical I could have been reading a foreign language. Will try the newsgroup Mike suggested which I believe I'm already plugged into. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Oct 3 19:45:49 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Oct 3 19:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:gc2fqi$ie3$1@news.spamcop.net... > I've had this problem a couple of months now and can't find a solution to > it. It's affecting all sound, systems sound, CDs, video, sound files... > It isn't continuously present, I start playing some sound files for > example and the first couple of tracks may play OK then I hear a sort of > stuttering sound and sometimes sound will slow down as well as stuttering > yet play at the correct pitch. If I then pause play for a few seconds and > then resume it corrects itself until next time which could be a few > minutes later or an hour later. > Anyone come across this issue and know how to resolve it? Yup. Me. Look back of month or two for me posts. Never fixed it completely, although it rarely occurs now. Does it happen to you when your CPU is being taxed by some app? Or your swapfile? From user at domain.invalid Sat Oct 4 10:39:36 2008 From: user at domain.invalid (User) Date: Sat Oct 4 10:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Weird ground loop problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02.10.2008 11:36, Zootal wrote: --- Original Message --- > "User" wrote in message > news:gc1f7a$oo4$1@news.spamcop.net... >> On 29.09.2008 19:08, Indigo wrote: >> >> --- Original Message --- >> >>> As I posted in this group a month or two ago, I ran a mono signal wire >>> from >>> the line-out on my PC to the stereo system in my basement so I could >>> listen >>> to streaming audio in my workshop. After some initial snafus, I got it >>> wired >>> properly and working perfectly (until now). I used 3.5 mm jacks with >>> solder >>> connections to create the cable, and was extremely careful to cover both >>> the >>> hot terminal and the ground shield with black electrical tape to prevent >>> any >>> shorts in the jacks. >>> >>> Yesterday while doing laundry in the basement, I turned on the stereo to >>> listen to some computer audio. I heard this horrible humming noise coming >>> out of the speakers, and the intensity (loudness) of the humming changed >>> drastically when I jiggled the input line from the PC, _and_ when I moved >>> close to or away from the stereo itself! After some fiddling, I >>> discovered >>> that I had used non-grounding converter connectors to plug in my basement >>> PC >>> and monitor (which is a foot away from the stereo) into a two-wire >>> extension >>> cord that was plugged into the same surge protector that the stereo was >>> plugged into -- figuring that I had a ground loop problem, I ditched the >>> converters, found a proper 3-line cord, and plugged the PC back in. >>> >>> Problem solved, right? Nope. Still just as bad. Then I realized that >>> while >>> the PC was unplugged from the power strip, the interference on the PC >>> audio >>> line-in disappeared. So I plugged/unplugged the PC extension cord several >>> times and confirmed that with it disconnected the signal noise wasn't >>> there. >>> Now I'm really stumped! That PC was _never_ powered on since I initially >>> set >>> it up to record audio from my LP player, and there was no interference >>> for >>> months until yesterday. I checked the LP player ground wire and it was >>> nice >>> and tight on the back of the stereo (I didn't check it at the player >>> itself, >>> I'm pretty sure it's hardwired there). What the hell changed and/or >>> happened >>> overnight that could cause this problem? >>> >> >> "short" answers: >> >> 1. Flourescent ballast leak >> 2. Faulty ground at fuse/breaker box. >> > > Don't forget: > > 3. Faulty ground at any receptacle box that the wires run through. I have > several faulty grounds in 8 year old wiring because whoever wired it simply > twisted the ground wires together in the boxes. It may meet code , > but it sure as h*ll doesn't make good grounds. > > Yes of course but I was speaking specifically at the junction box where there should be an 8' copper ground rod or lack thereof. From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Sun Oct 5 10:33:05 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Sun Oct 5 10:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Indigo scribed: >Yup. Me. Look back of month or two for me posts. Never fixed it >completely, although it rarely occurs now. Does it happen to you when your >CPU is being taxed by some app? Or your swapfile? It took a bit to track down, but, it seems to be happening when Diskeeper springs into life to automatically monitor and defrag drives. It isn't even when DK does this with just the drive music, player or OS is on either, seems to occur with every drive from what I can see while studying the pattern in Task Manager. Not running DK on Auto seems to help, but, DK never had this effect before. As DK is to do with the disks and also SiSoftware Sandra reports PCI IDE controller has too high a latency and that is also to do with moving data between partitions it may be a combination of both. Latency somehow changed to too high which aggravated situation when DK auto runs. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From loyal at spamcop.user Sun Oct 5 13:43:07 2008 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Sun Oct 5 13:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > Indigo scribed: > >> Yup. Me. Look back of month or two for me posts. Never fixed it >> completely, although it rarely occurs now. Does it happen to you when >> your CPU is being taxed by some app? Or your swapfile? > > It took a bit to track down, but, it seems to be happening when > Diskeeper springs into life to automatically monitor and defrag drives. > It isn't even when DK does this with just the drive music, player or OS > is on either, seems to occur with every drive from what I can see while > studying the pattern in Task Manager. Not running DK on Auto seems to > help, but, DK never had this effect before. > > As DK is to do with the disks and also SiSoftware Sandra reports PCI IDE > controller has too high a latency and that is also to do with moving > data between partitions it may be a combination of both. Latency > somehow changed to too high which aggravated situation when DK auto runs. > Why are you almost constantly defragging your disk? Are you running a server or something? Do the defrag weekly, perhaps monthly, or even quarterly. Or potentially set up extra drives to minimize file fragmentation: C:\ (OS only) D:\ (Applications only) E:\ (your data, My Documents, etc) F:\ (for TEMP, TMP, and swap drive) AndrewB From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Sun Oct 5 16:53:07 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Sun Oct 5 16:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: AndrewB scribed: >Why are you almost constantly defragging your disk? Are you running a >server or something? Do the defrag weekly, perhaps monthly, or even >quarterly. Or potentially set up extra drives to minimize file >fragmentation: Diskeeper when installed defaults to automatic defrag and monitor in the background on below normal priority. It is one of the main reasons to buy it and since installing almost a year ago I notice marked systems improvement especially since it automatically monitors and defrags MFTs and Paging File. It is not a bad thing to Auto defrag in the background, in fact it is a good thing. Diskeeper also has an option to turn off Auto Defrag if necessary. For some reason it has become necessary if I am playing media files and want perfect sound. It took a little while to find this out. Hope this answers your question :) -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From nobody at spamcop.net Sun Oct 5 17:53:10 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Sun Oct 5 17:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:gcb9fj$nuf$1@news.spamcop.net... > and Paging File. It is not a bad thing to Auto defrag in the background, > in fact it is a good thing. With larger and faster disks, I find defrag to provide very little improvement these days. The only time would be if the disks are relatively full, in which case, more disk space is usually the most economical fix. From JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com Mon Oct 6 07:17:06 2008 From: JLNKOOECOCGY at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Mon Oct 6 07:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound References: Message-ID: Steven Underwood scribed: >With larger and faster disks, I find defrag to provide very little >improvement these days. The only time would be if the disks are >relatively full, in which case, more disk space is usually the most >economical fix. I never noticed much difference before using Diskeeper. I believe it is due to DK being able to defrag the MFT files on Auto -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ http://canopianjournal.blogspot.com/ http://canopusarchives.multiply.com/ From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Oct 7 10:33:33 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Oct 7 10:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:gcaj71$tp0$1@news.spamcop.net... Not running DK on Auto seems to help, but, > DK never had this effect before. > My problem just popped up out of the blue too. Rarely happens now. Now I have a new issue. I recently returned my Bluetooth headphones because the batteries wouldn't hold a charge and the new ones won't connect with the built in bluetooth adapter on my PC. Neither will my cellphone either, although the cell easily found the headphones. I still have the old "stale" data for the other headhphones in the bluetooth COM port usage list, but I can't delete them. I even uninstalled all bluetooth hardware/software and reinstalled from the original disk image msi files, but still no joy. Maddening. > As DK is to do with the disks and also SiSoftware Sandra reports PCI IDE > controller has too high a latency and that is also to do with moving data > between partitions it may be a combination of both. Latency somehow > changed to too high which aggravated situation when DK auto runs. Latency......hmmm.....that's interesting. While I was trying to diagnose my stuttering problem I spent a lot of time looking at services and the event logs, and some services were flagged for taking too long to launch or close. Don't remember exactly which ones they were, and trying to think what services would mess up the streaming audio? From me at privacy.net Tue Oct 7 12:30:55 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Oct 7 12:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Spam assassin Message-ID: I think my ISP (Charter Comm.) is using spamassassin but won't confirm that or advise what the might be using. Is there any practical way to run a test that will give me some information on what they are using? TIA From avoozl at spamcop.net Tue Oct 7 13:31:34 2008 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Tue Oct 7 13:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Spam assassin References: Message-ID: Have you looked at the headers for mail that DOES get through? If they use SA it should show in there. Chris "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:gcg2s0$vid$1@news.spamcop.net... >I think my ISP (Charter Comm.) is using spamassassin but won't confirm that > or advise what the might be using. > > Is there any practical way to run a test that will give me some > information > on what they are using? > > TIA > > From loyal at spamcop.user Wed Oct 8 01:14:33 2008 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Wed Oct 8 01:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > > "Canopus" wrote in message > news:gcaj71$tp0$1@news.spamcop.net... > Not running DK on Auto seems to help, but, >> DK never had this effect before. >> > > My problem just popped up out of the blue too. Rarely happens now. Now I > have a new issue. I recently returned my Bluetooth headphones because > the batteries wouldn't hold a charge and the new ones won't connect with > the built in bluetooth adapter on my PC. Neither will my cellphone > either, although the cell easily found the headphones. I still have the > old "stale" data for the other headhphones in the bluetooth COM port > usage list, but I can't delete them. I even uninstalled all bluetooth > hardware/software and reinstalled from the original disk image msi > files, but still no joy. Maddening. Every bluetooth device has a unique ID attached to it. I assume you went through the pairing process with your new headphones and the computer. You may have to put the pc in "discover" mode so it can find the new headphones and attempt a pair. I have two pairs of Motorola's S9 headphones. My first pair has a defunct LED, and holds a charge for about 30mins of audio via A2DP. Then I began more intense workouts, and shorted it out (temporarily). I'm on a second pair, but have shorted it out too. I'm back to ear buds. AndrewB From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Oct 8 15:28:03 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Oct 8 15:30:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Stuttering and Slowing Down Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gchfjo$ld0$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Every bluetooth device has a unique ID attached to it. I assume you went > through the pairing process with your new headphones and the computer. > You may have to put the pc in "discover" mode so it can find the new > headphones and attempt a pair. I've done that probably 20 times, I can't even get to the pairing stage. My PC just refuses to discover either my cell or my headphones now. My cell found my headphones and paired up in seconds. > > I have two pairs of Motorola's S9 headphones. My first pair has a defunct > LED, and holds a charge for about 30mins of audio via A2DP. Then I began > more intense workouts, and shorted it out (temporarily). I'm on a second > pair, but have shorted it out too. I'm back to ear buds. > I have Insignia headphones, the first pair had a set of crappy batteries that wouldn't hold a charge either. I'd have to charge them the night before I wanted to use them and then they'd run out of juice after a couple hours. I suspected something was strange when I first charged them and it took over 10 hours. I took them back to Best Buy and got a replacement last week, the new ones recharged within 3 hours and seem to be holding the charge when not in use. I had a AC/DC charger for the headphone and player, but I couldn't remembe which device it came with so I kept it. It came with the headphones, so now I can recharge both at once ;-) Unfortunately, the MP3 player skips and stutters a lot when I'm outside working in the yard, the whole reason I bought the stuff. I'm thinking it's getting interference from my neighbor's wireless network. While in search mode on my PC I discovered 7 wireless networks plus a couple of cell phones, including the next door neighbor's son's phone. Dunno if I could do anything malicious with any of those systems if I were the type to do so? The cell phone in particular might be vulnerable, the standard bluetooth pairing code out of the box is usually 0000 or 1234....I think the wireless networks all showed up as secure. But my car hands free bluetooth setup required you to choose a code (which I forgot to write down and can't remember!), so I'm relatively safe there from being hacked. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Oct 11 20:47:23 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Oct 11 20:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Sheesh, such work at it already existed... Message-ID: Talking about my homemade cable, mono 3.5 mm male jack from my PC audio output to a single (mono) male RCA input to my basement stereo. Dammit....this cable costs less than the components I had to buy at Radio shack, plus the hours spent building and testing it! http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=10037 I'm going to buy a 25 ft one to run from my PC headphone output to my upstairs stereo, then start looking for a Bluetooth transmitter so I can listen to streaming audio from my PC on my Bluetooth headphones while I'm outdoors in the yard. That one might be an issue, I'm sure the FCC will limit the range of the transmitter to something useless. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Sat Oct 11 22:08:40 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Sat Oct 11 22:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Sheesh, such work at it already existed... References: Message-ID: > Talking about my homemade cable, mono 3.5 mm male jack from my PC > audio output to a single (mono) male RCA input to my basement stereo. > Dammit....this cable costs less than the components I had to buy at > Radio shack, plus the hours spent building and testing it! > > http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=10037 > > I'm going to buy a 25 ft one to run from my PC headphone output to my > upstairs stereo, then start looking for a Bluetooth transmitter so I > can listen to streaming audio from my PC on my Bluetooth headphones > while I'm outdoors in the yard. That one might be an issue, I'm sure > the FCC will limit the range of the transmitter to something useless. But (for another few $$), you can use repeaters for that kind of a setup. They aren't very expensive. I must have missed it; did you get the ground problems worked ou? Twayne From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Oct 11 23:25:36 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Oct 11 23:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Sheesh, such work at it already existed... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message >> the FCC will limit the range of the transmitter to something useless. > > But (for another few $$), you can use repeaters for that kind of a > setup. They aren't very expensive. > I must have missed it; did you get the ground problems worked ou? > Never followed up on suggestions, on my "honey do" list. From joegill at removethis Mon Oct 13 09:03:40 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Mon Oct 13 09:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? Message-ID: I currently have Vista Home Premium with "Windows Mail". The only Vista-related problems I have had is with Windows Mail. I have now come to the understanding via Microsoft newsgroups and Microsoft MVPs that Window mail has become 'functionally stabilized' and no new function/enhancements will be added. The future I am told is in "Windows Live Mail" So has anyone tried "Windows Live Mail".... Did you migrate from Windows Mail? Any problems with getting headers in the product? Any problems with forwarding mail to the SUBMIT address TIA From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Oct 13 14:21:37 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Oct 13 14:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" wrote in message news:gcvgv1$2i9$1@news.spamcop.net... >I currently have Vista Home Premium with "Windows Mail". The only >Vista-related problems I have had is with Windows Mail. > > I have now come to the understanding via Microsoft newsgroups and > Microsoft MVPs that Window mail has become 'functionally stabilized' and > no new function/enhancements will be added. The future I am told is in > "Windows Live Mail" > > So has anyone tried "Windows Live Mail".... Nope. Quite happy with Windows Mail, so much so that I've never bothered to upload any of my archied Outlook files to this PC, in fact, I've never even set up an Outlook account. Dunno what "Windows Live Mail" is, to be honest, I've never rooted around in the "windows live" directory. I *do* have a rather generic email question though (not to hijack your thread, but.... :-). WM automatically comes set up with a junk mail filter and junk mail folder. Several months ago I bought something online, from a health foods website I believe, and I suspect they sold my addy since my spam load went from nothing to 10+ per day. It was a royal PITA having to go into the junkmail folder every day and make sure no "goodmail" had been trapped in there and then marking the rest as read, which gets rid of the little "you have new mail" icon in the taskbar. So I wrote some message rules. Anything with "viagra", written a variety of intentionally mispelt ways, was "move to folder X" and "marked as read". WM message rules won't let you simply mark something as read, you HAVE to do something else with it first. Unfortunately, even though it's marked as read, the taskbar new mail icon doesn't go away. I literally have to go into the new junk folder, pick the most recent spam, mark them as unread, then mark them as read. Kinda stupid and pointless. Anyone know how to correct this behavior, or is it some kind of hardcoded stupid windows rule dealing with that taskbar icon? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Oct 13 14:25:40 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Oct 13 14:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gd03jg$pkn$1@news.spamcop.net... > > So I wrote some message rules. Anything with "viagra", written a variety > of intentionally mispelt ways, was "move to folder X" and "marked as > read". Oh, forgot to mention, right before I wrote that post I changed that rule to "delete from server", so I should never see any of those spams to start with from now on (crosses fingers). Can't do that with the other rules, they may be legit (one contains the word "pharmacy" for instance, I do have a real online pharmacy account). From Ag2000CO at Starband.net Mon Oct 13 16:18:00 2008 From: Ag2000CO at Starband.net (LKing) Date: Mon Oct 13 16:20:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote, On 10/13/2008 2:25 PM: > rule to "delete from server", so I should never see any of those spams > to start with from now on (crosses fingers). Never see it, never report it. That is of course one answer. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Oct 13 23:22:46 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Oct 13 23:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "LKing" wrote in message news:gd0ad9$l02$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote, On 10/13/2008 2:25 PM: > >> rule to "delete from server", so I should never see any of those spams to >> start with from now on (crosses fingers). > > Never see it, never report it. That is of course one answer. Sheeeeitttt.....I stopped reporting a long time ago when I got rid of some spam software incompatible with Vista. I'll still report the rare one that get's my goat, but otherwise I'm out of the game. From joegill at removethis Tue Oct 14 09:27:05 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Tue Oct 14 09:30:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gd13a5$7m8$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "LKing" wrote in message > news:gd0ad9$l02$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Indigo wrote, On 10/13/2008 2:25 PM: >> >>> rule to "delete from server", so I should never see any of those spams >>> to start with from now on (crosses fingers). >> >> Never see it, never report it. That is of course one answer. > > Sheeeeitttt.....I stopped reporting a long time ago when I got rid of some > spam software incompatible with Vista. I'll still report the rare one that > get's my goat, but otherwise I'm out of the game. Since you HIJACKED my thread... I will continue down your path... I still spend the time to report SPAM. I am an ATT/YAHOO subscriber, so there filtering done now at their level to reject a lot of mail outright. But mail that does make it past that, gets to SPAMCOP, included what SBC tags a bulk Once in SPAMCOP, I have the GREYLIST feature turned on, to filter out even more. What's left is usually 2-3 spams a day in HELD mail, and 1-2 spams a week in inbox. I report them all, figuring if they made it that far, then they NEED to be reported. It's also a feeling of revenge against the stupid spammers, Hopefully I make someone's day, but aiding in getting them shutdown! I used to get 200-250 spams a days in HELD MAIL. From qcorrell at pacNObell.net Tue Oct 14 14:04:30 2008 From: qcorrell at pacNObell.net (Q Correll) Date: Tue Oct 14 14:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? References: Message-ID: Joe, | I still spend the time to report SPAM. I am an ATT/YAHOO subscriber, | so there filtering done now at their level to reject a lot of mail | outright. But mail that does make it past that, gets to SPAMCOP, | included what SBC tags a bulk Once in SPAMCOP, I have the GREYLIST | feature turned on, to filter out even more. | | What's left is usually 2-3 spams a day in HELD mail, and 1-2 spams a | week in inbox. I report them all, figuring if they made it that far, | then they NEED to be reported. It's also a feeling of revenge | against the stupid spammers, Hopefully I make someone's day, but | aiding in getting them shutdown! | | I used to get 200-250 spams a days in HELD MAIL. Ditto! -- Q Also AT&T/Yahoo e-mail user from the ol'days of PacBell> 10/14/2008 11:03:34 XanaNews Version 1.18.1.52 [Everyone's & Q's Mods] From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Oct 14 19:01:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" wrote in message news:gd26n8$d3j$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I still spend the time to report SPAM. When I upgraded from Win2k to Vista, I lost use of Spampal, a great tool. Too much crap slips past Comcast's and Vista's filters for me to deal with on a daily basis. Being chronically ill and out of work has taken all the steam out of my fight with spammers, I have bigger issues to deal with now. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Oct 14 19:02:53 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" wrote in message news:gd26n8$d3j$1@news.spamcop.net... > Since you HIJACKED my thread... I will continue down your path... So I guess you're not going to bother helping me with *my* problem/question? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Oct 14 19:51:19 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:55:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Vista Users..Has anyone tried Windows Live Mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gd38c0$4ma$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Joe Gill" wrote in message > news:gd26n8$d3j$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> I still spend the time to report SPAM. > > When I upgraded from Win2k to Vista, I lost use of Spampal, a great tool. > Too much crap slips past Comcast's and Vista's filters for me to deal with > on a daily basis. Being chronically ill and out of work has taken all the > steam out of my fight with spammers, I have bigger issues to deal with > now. I use Vista's Window's Mail, but only in IMAP mode since Vista is on my work laptop. I use it to move any of the spam I receive in my spamcop inbox to the Held Mail folder for reporting. I then download daily to OE on WindowsXP. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Oct 15 22:20:41 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Oct 15 22:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] How the heck did this happen? Message-ID: Last two days when I went to open Excel it opened every damned file in the C:\My Documents folder! And just now I discovered that somehow the C:\ "not shared" setting had been changed to "shared" by authorized users! I wonder if during my attempts to pair my bluetooth devices to the PC that someone sneaked in? But how would that affect Excel? I've disconnected all file sharing now, but this Excel thing has me befuddled. Help? From joegill at removethis Thu Oct 16 01:31:13 2008 From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill) Date: Thu Oct 16 01:35:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How the heck did this happen? References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gd68dp$9u5$1@news.spamcop.net... > Last two days when I went to open Excel it opened every damned file in the > C:\My Documents folder! And just now I discovered that somehow the C:\ > "not shared" setting had been changed to "shared" by authorized users! I > wonder if during my attempts to pair my bluetooth devices to the PC that > someone sneaked in? But how would that affect Excel? I've disconnected all > file sharing now, but this Excel thing has me befuddled. Help? from "RUN"... try excel.exe and see what happens From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Thu Oct 16 12:04:26 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Thu Oct 16 12:05:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How the heck did this happen? References: Message-ID: > Last two days when I went to open Excel it opened every damned file > in the C:\My Documents folder! And just now I discovered that somehow > the C:\ "not shared" setting had been changed to "shared" by > authorized users! I wonder if during my attempts to pair my bluetooth > devices to the PC that someone sneaked in? But how would that affect > Excel? I've disconnected all file sharing now, but this Excel thing > has me befuddled. Help? Sounds like you may have picked up a macro worm/trojan whatever. Used to be pretty common but haven't heard much of them lately. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/macro.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/187243 Couldn't find your specific problem, but removal instructs are available somewhere. Twayne From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Oct 16 20:24:45 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Steven Underwood) Date: Thu Oct 16 20:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How the heck did this happen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:gd68dp$9u5$1@news.spamcop.net... > Last two days when I went to open Excel it opened every damned file in the > C:\My Documents folder! And just now I discovered that somehow the C:\ > "not shared" setting had been changed to "shared" by authorized users! I > wonder if during my attempts to pair my bluetooth devices to the PC that > someone sneaked in? But how would that affect Excel? I've disconnected all > file sharing now, but this Excel thing has me befuddled. Help? Look at Options, General, At startup, open all files in ... From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Oct 17 22:32:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Oct 17 22:35:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How the heck did this happen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Joe Gill" wrote in message news:gd6jj2$9jg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gd68dp$9u5$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Last two days when I went to open Excel it opened every damned file in >> the C:\My Documents folder! And just now I discovered that somehow the >> C:\ "not shared" setting had been changed to "shared" by authorized >> users! I wonder if during my attempts to pair my bluetooth devices to the >> PC that someone sneaked in? But how would that affect Excel? I've >> disconnected all file sharing now, but this Excel thing has me befuddled. >> Help? > > > from "RUN"... try excel.exe and see what happens I figured out that I had hosed my Excel spreadsheet by inserting an "import external data" function for one stock instead of using the standard MSNStockQuote add-in. I *think* I did it because I couldn't get stock quote updates and tried something else, but it hosed me big time. I fixed everything, but as of right now I still can't get the stock quotes updated, and I can't even get to the microsoft server for online help. Something weird going on. I did notice another sharing type service had been activated too, can't recall what it was right now....oh, it was "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service". I disabled it. Another weird thing I noticed....I mentioned that I had been having problems with syncing bluetooth devices with my PC, and I took a peak at the bluetooth service properties and all of those mysterious inactive com ports and devices had disappeared! Might try to link my MP3 player and headphones again tomorrow to see if it works this time. Some things have changed on my PC and not by my concious efforts...... From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Oct 17 22:37:01 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Oct 17 22:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How the heck did this happen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message news:gd7om1$e1s$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Sounds like you may have picked up a macro worm/trojan whatever. Used to > be pretty common but haven't heard much of them lately. > > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/macro.html > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/187243 > I doubt it. These weird problems occurred after I downloaded the most recent Vista updates a few days ago. And all Excel worm/virus links on that symantec page lead to dead pages (color me not surprised). From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Oct 17 22:43:24 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Fri Oct 17 22:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How the heck did this happen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Steven Underwood" wrote in message news:gd8m0i$n02$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:gd68dp$9u5$1@news.spamcop.net... >> Last two days when I went to open Excel it opened every damned file in >> the C:\My Documents folder! And just now I discovered that somehow the >> C:\ "not shared" setting had been changed to "shared" by authorized >> users! I wonder if during my attempts to pair my bluetooth devices to the >> PC that someone sneaked in? But how would that affect Excel? I've >> disconnected all file sharing now, but this Excel thing has me befuddled. >> Help? > > Look at Options, General, At startup, open all files in ... Hah! Somehow that setting had been changed to open all the files in my "office files" directory! No wonder things were so fscked up! Thanks, dude! I also messed with some of my "tweaking" apps, and was able to restore the "show last x number of files opened" under the "File" menu, dunno which one fixed it. One problem with having too many "fix it" apps ;-) From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Oct 20 18:52:05 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Mon Oct 20 18:55:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Interesting delivery failure message Message-ID: Here's a maybe-non-delivery error message on an e-mail I sent today; lol, never seen one like this, have you? Looks like someone enjoyed a hot toddy or two when they wrote that one up. --------------------------- This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (TMDA). Your message attached below could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: : Your original message could not be located. This may be because the recipient has already delivered your message by hand. If in doubt, you might want to resend your message. ------------------------- Twayne From borgholio at storymind.com Mon Oct 20 21:06:07 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Mon Oct 20 21:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Need replacement for Frontpage Message-ID: I have finally reached the limit to what I can efficiently do with Microsoft Frontpage. I need a replacement that I can use to bring our company website out of the 90's. :) Right now we're using simple html which works, but requires we update each page individually. I would like to be able to create a standard outline (borders) that don't change, while any links clicked change the content in the center. Having the links open into drop-down menus for easy navigation is also a plus. I also would like to easily have the page auto-scale depending on the user's screen resolution. Currently our page is locked at 800x600. I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks! For reference, here is our existing page: http://storymind.com I recently revamped it by creating a new navigation bar on the left and making the whole site less cluttered and more streamlined...but as you can see it's not very dynamic and not very modern, especially when compared to larger corporate sites. From news0807REMOVECAPS at orrery.e4ward.com Tue Oct 21 03:47:36 2008 From: news0807REMOVECAPS at orrery.e4ward.com (Ian Smith) Date: Tue Oct 21 03:50:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > > I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine > recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any > suggestions? Thanks! Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages of Joomla and it publishes them for you. http://www.joomla.org/ There is a demo system that you can control yourself: http://demo.joomla.org/ The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. You can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or download a new one. There are several sites that provide free ones - do a google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also free) then Joomla should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP option, for Windows download XAMPP: http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on the net - just do a google. If you need hosting, then there are many services now with pre-loaded Joomla. Here in the UK I use: http://www.joomlawired.com/ regards, Ian From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Oct 21 12:57:09 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Oct 21 13:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ian Smith wrote: > Borgholio wrote: > >> >> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine >> recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any >> suggestions? Thanks! > > Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not an > authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages of Joomla > and it publishes them for you. > > http://www.joomla.org/ > > There is a demo system that you can control yourself: > > http://demo.joomla.org/ > > The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. You can > use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or download a new > one. There are several sites that provide free ones - do a google. > > If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also free) then Joomla > should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP > option, for Windows download XAMPP: > http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html > > If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on the net > - just do a google. > > If you need hosting, then there are many services now with pre-loaded > Joomla. Here in the UK I use: > > http://www.joomlawired.com/ > > regards, Ian I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it doesn't seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of Dreamweaver since a new version was just released so I can't compare them yet, but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 22 05:57:43 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 22 06:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: problem with Outlook Express References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > I was trying to set up a bunch of email accounts on Outlook Express this > morning on hubby's laptop. For some reason, the passwords aren't > 'sticking', even though I click the 'remember password' option box. It's > driving me nuts. Any suggestions of what the problem is? Is there a > global security measure somewhere that could be scuppering my efforts? > > It's running XP SP3 'Seeming' to get stuck on the user/password part of the transaction can be misleading -- because the problem that you are/ may be/ seeing may not be due to the password situation at all -- that is just the alert you get when the process of transaction between OE and the mailserver isn't working. Are you saying that if you give the alert the pass, then you /are /successful in accessing the mail? Or that you get the alert for the pass and you give it the pass and you are still unsuccessful accessing? What is the name of the mailserver in question? Or at least one mailserver exhibiting the symptom? -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Wed Oct 22 13:05:00 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Interesting delivery failure message References: Message-ID: > "Twayne" wrote in news:gdj22i$ic3$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > > >> Your original message could not be located. This may be because the >> recipient has already delivered your message by hand. If in doubt, >> you might want to resend your message. >> ------------------------- >> > > lol, looks like someone at savvis has a sense of humour! > > since it seems to be at their abuse reporting address, had you sent an > abuse complaint or something? No, at least not in the last month. I didn't look back any farther than that; seemed like wasted effort. I suppose it could have been tangentially involved & not show up, but it's still a strange message so I posted it just for fun. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Wed Oct 22 13:10:55 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:15:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: Message-ID: > Ian Smith wrote: >> Borgholio wrote: >> >>> >>> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine >>> recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any >>> suggestions? Thanks! >> >> Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not >> an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages of >> Joomla and it publishes them for you. >> >> http://www.joomla.org/ >> >> There is a demo system that you can control yourself: >> >> http://demo.joomla.org/ >> >> The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. You >> can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or download a >> new one. There are several sites that provide free ones - do a >> google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also free) then >> Joomla >> should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP >> option, for Windows download XAMPP: >> http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html >> >> If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on the >> net - just do a google. >> >> If you need hosting, then there are many services now with pre-loaded >> Joomla. Here in the UK I use: >> >> http://www.joomlawired.com/ >> >> regards, Ian > > I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it doesn't > seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of Dreamweaver > since a new version was just released so I can't compare them yet, > but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. I've never used FrontPage and know little of its abilities but NVU (open source) at nvu.com is pretty good and for the higher end I really like Netobjects Fusion. It's got a bushel of features included and works great. It's a database oriented methodology - some people don't like that. You can of course also write your own code & it handles PHP & ASP in basic manners but reasonably; it's not an IDE for them though. I use NVU whenever I have some thing fast to schlep together & Fusion for the real thing. Both have ftp capabilities of course. HTH Twayne From news0807REMOVECAPS at orrery.e4ward.com Wed Oct 22 14:40:05 2008 From: news0807REMOVECAPS at orrery.e4ward.com (Ian Smith) Date: Wed Oct 22 14:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Twayne wrote: >> Ian Smith wrote: >>> Borgholio wrote: >>> >>>> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine >>>> recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any >>>> suggestions? Thanks! >>> Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not >>> an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages of >>> Joomla and it publishes them for you. >>> >>> http://www.joomla.org/ >>> >>> There is a demo system that you can control yourself: >>> >>> http://demo.joomla.org/ >>> >>> The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. You >>> can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or download a >>> new one. There are several sites that provide free ones - do a >>> google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also free) then >>> Joomla >>> should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP >>> option, for Windows download XAMPP: >>> http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html >>> >>> If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on the >>> net - just do a google. >>> >>> If you need hosting, then there are many services now with pre-loaded >>> Joomla. Here in the UK I use: >>> >>> http://www.joomlawired.com/ >>> >>> regards, Ian >> I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it doesn't >> seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of Dreamweaver >> since a new version was just released so I can't compare them yet, >> but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. > > I've never used FrontPage and know little of its abilities but NVU (open > source) at nvu.com is pretty good and for the higher end I really like > Netobjects Fusion. It's got a bushel of features included and works > great. It's a database oriented methodology - some people don't like > that. You can of course also write your own code & it handles PHP & ASP > in basic manners but reasonably; it's not an IDE for them though. > > I use NVU whenever I have some thing fast to schlep together & Fusion > for the real thing. Both have ftp capabilities of course. NVU is no more, it is now KompoZer regards, Ian From borgholio at storymind.com Wed Oct 22 15:22:33 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ian Smith wrote: > Twayne wrote: >>> Ian Smith wrote: >>>> Borgholio wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine >>>>> recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any >>>>> suggestions? Thanks! >>>> Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not >>>> an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages of >>>> Joomla and it publishes them for you. >>>> >>>> http://www.joomla.org/ >>>> >>>> There is a demo system that you can control yourself: >>>> >>>> http://demo.joomla.org/ >>>> >>>> The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. You >>>> can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or download a >>>> new one. There are several sites that provide free ones - do a >>>> google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also free) then >>>> Joomla >>>> should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP >>>> option, for Windows download XAMPP: >>>> http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html >>>> >>>> If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on the >>>> net - just do a google. >>>> >>>> If you need hosting, then there are many services now with pre-loaded >>>> Joomla. Here in the UK I use: >>>> >>>> http://www.joomlawired.com/ >>>> >>>> regards, Ian >>> I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it doesn't >>> seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of Dreamweaver >>> since a new version was just released so I can't compare them yet, >>> but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. >> >> I've never used FrontPage and know little of its abilities but NVU >> (open source) at nvu.com is pretty good and for the higher end I >> really like Netobjects Fusion. It's got a bushel of features included >> and works great. It's a database oriented methodology - some people >> don't like that. You can of course also write your own code & it >> handles PHP & ASP in basic manners but reasonably; it's not an IDE for >> them though. >> >> I use NVU whenever I have some thing fast to schlep together & Fusion >> for the real thing. Both have ftp capabilities of course. > > NVU is no more, it is now KompoZer > > regards, Ian What's the learning curve like on KompoZer and Fusion? From news0807REMOVECAPS at orrery.e4ward.com Wed Oct 22 15:41:59 2008 From: news0807REMOVECAPS at orrery.e4ward.com (Ian Smith) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:45:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > Ian Smith wrote: >> Twayne wrote: >>>> Ian Smith wrote: >>>>> Borgholio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine >>>>>> recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any >>>>>> suggestions? Thanks! >>>>> Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not >>>>> an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages of >>>>> Joomla and it publishes them for you. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.joomla.org/ >>>>> >>>>> There is a demo system that you can control yourself: >>>>> >>>>> http://demo.joomla.org/ >>>>> >>>>> The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. You >>>>> can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or download a >>>>> new one. There are several sites that provide free ones - do a >>>>> google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also free) then >>>>> Joomla >>>>> should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP >>>>> option, for Windows download XAMPP: >>>>> http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html >>>>> >>>>> If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on the >>>>> net - just do a google. >>>>> >>>>> If you need hosting, then there are many services now with pre-loaded >>>>> Joomla. Here in the UK I use: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.joomlawired.com/ >>>>> >>>>> regards, Ian >>>> I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it doesn't >>>> seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of Dreamweaver >>>> since a new version was just released so I can't compare them yet, >>>> but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. >>> >>> I've never used FrontPage and know little of its abilities but NVU >>> (open source) at nvu.com is pretty good and for the higher end I >>> really like Netobjects Fusion. It's got a bushel of features >>> included and works great. It's a database oriented methodology - >>> some people don't like that. You can of course also write your own >>> code & it handles PHP & ASP in basic manners but reasonably; it's not >>> an IDE for them though. >>> >>> I use NVU whenever I have some thing fast to schlep together & Fusion >>> for the real thing. Both have ftp capabilities of course. >> >> NVU is no more, it is now KompoZer >> >> regards, Ian > > What's the learning curve like on KompoZer and Fusion? Kompozer is very Mickey Mouse - simple, and free! regards, Ian From borgholio at storymind.com Wed Oct 22 16:04:46 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Wed Oct 22 16:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ian Smith wrote: > > Kompozer is very Mickey Mouse - simple, and free! > > regards, Ian What is involved in creating a web that auto-scales according to the browser resolution of the person viewing the site? Is it flash, Java, or can it be done with normal HTML? Same question goes for creating a set of borders that never changes, only the content in the center changes as you click on links. From blacklist-me at davjam.org Wed Oct 22 19:12:32 2008 From: blacklist-me at davjam.org (David Bolt) Date: Wed Oct 22 19:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: Message-ID: <7iO8Dr+gN7$IFw3n@dev.null.davjam.org> On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Borgholio wrote:- >Ian Smith wrote: >> Kompozer is very Mickey Mouse - simple, and free! >> regards, Ian > >What is involved in creating a web that auto-scales according to the >browser resolution of the person viewing the site? Is it flash, Java, >or can it be done with normal HTML? Same question goes for creating a >set of borders that never changes, only the content in the center >changes as you click on links. Use a frameset. You can have a fixed-size menu in the left hand frame, and a variable-sized frame where the content is placed. You could even add a fixed-size frame to the right of the content frame to add things like Google ads. To make sure the pages in the menu are opened in the content frame, give that frame a name and specify it as a target for the URL. A cheap and very plain demo is here: with the source pages in an archive here: Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~15Mkeys SUSE 10.1 32 | | openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | openSUSE 10.2 64b | openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.11 From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Wed Oct 22 23:41:50 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Wazoo) Date: Wed Oct 22 23:45:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: problem with Outlook Express References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9B3EA910EFA9Fsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... >I was trying to set up a bunch of email accounts on Outlook Express >this > morning on hubby's laptop. For some reason, the passwords aren't > 'sticking', even though I click the 'remember password' option > box. It's > driving me nuts. Any suggestions of what the problem is? Is there > a global > security measure somewhere that could be scuppering my efforts? > > It's running XP SP3 http://dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_oe_passwords.htm or the much more wordy original source; http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290684 From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Fri Oct 24 11:54:30 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Fri Oct 24 11:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: Message-ID: > Twayne wrote: >>> Ian Smith wrote: >>>> Borgholio wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of mine >>>>> recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody have any >>>>> suggestions? Thanks! >>>> Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, not >>>> an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin pages >>>> of Joomla and it publishes them for you. >>>> >>>> http://www.joomla.org/ >>>> >>>> There is a demo system that you can control yourself: >>>> >>>> http://demo.joomla.org/ >>>> >>>> The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. >>>> You can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or >>>> download a new one. There are several sites that provide free ones >>>> - do a google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL (also >>>> free) then Joomla >>>> should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP >>>> option, for Windows download XAMPP: >>>> http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html >>>> >>>> If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on >>>> the net - just do a google. >>>> >>>> If you need hosting, then there are many services now with >>>> pre-loaded Joomla. Here in the UK I use: >>>> >>>> http://www.joomlawired.com/ >>>> >>>> regards, Ian >>> I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it >>> doesn't seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of >>> Dreamweaver since a new version was just released so I can't >>> compare them yet, but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. >> >> I've never used FrontPage and know little of its abilities but NVU >> (open source) at nvu.com is pretty good and for the higher end I >> really like Netobjects Fusion. It's got a bushel of features >> included and works great. It's a database oriented methodology - >> some people don't like that. You can of course also write your own >> code & it handles PHP & ASP in basic manners but reasonably; it's >> not an IDE for them though. I use NVU whenever I have some thing fast >> to schlep together & Fusion >> for the real thing. Both have ftp capabilities of course. > > NVU is no more, it is now KompoZer > > regards, Ian Oh? Thanks for the update. I know the design effort all bailed on it long ago but it was left in a usable state albeit a couple bugs. Thanks, Twayne From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Fri Oct 24 12:17:39 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Fri Oct 24 12:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: Message-ID: > Ian Smith wrote: >> Twayne wrote: >>>> Ian Smith wrote: >>>>> Borgholio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have already looked into Adobe Dreamweaver, but a friend of >>>>>> mine recommended an open souce program called Joomla. Anybody >>>>>> have any suggestions? Thanks! >>>>> Joomla is a content management system which runs on the server, >>>>> not an authoring tool. You type the page content into the admin >>>>> pages of Joomla and it publishes them for you. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.joomla.org/ >>>>> >>>>> There is a demo system that you can control yourself: >>>>> >>>>> http://demo.joomla.org/ >>>>> >>>>> The 'look and feel' of the pages are controlled by the Template. >>>>> You can use one of 3 templates that comes free with Joomla or >>>>> download a new one. There are several sites that provide free >>>>> ones - do a google. If your server has PHP scripting and MySQL >>>>> (also free) then Joomla >>>>> should run on it. If your server is Linux then you need the LAMPP >>>>> option, for Windows download XAMPP: >>>>> http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html >>>>> >>>>> If you have a problem with Joomla, then there is lots of help on >>>>> the net - just do a google. >>>>> >>>>> If you need hosting, then there are many services now with >>>>> pre-loaded Joomla. Here in the UK I use: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.joomlawired.com/ >>>>> >>>>> regards, Ian >>>> I've already played around with the demo a bit and honestly it >>>> doesn't seem very user-friendly. I have not yet used the demo of >>>> Dreamweaver since a new version was just released so I can't >>>> compare them yet, but I'm thinking I need more than a CMS. >>> >>> I've never used FrontPage and know little of its abilities but NVU >>> (open source) at nvu.com is pretty good and for the higher end I >>> really like Netobjects Fusion. It's got a bushel of features >>> included and works great. It's a database oriented methodology - >>> some people don't like that. You can of course also write your own >>> code & it handles PHP & ASP in basic manners but reasonably; it's >>> not an IDE for them though. >>> >>> I use NVU whenever I have some thing fast to schlep together & >>> Fusion for the real thing. Both have ftp capabilities of course. >> >> NVU is no more, it is now KompoZer >> >> regards, Ian > > What's the learning curve like on KompoZer and Fusion? If KompoZer hasn't changed a lot from NVU it's not too bad. Mostly a case of realizing what a few of the icons mean, IMO, and keeping title separate from filename for most first timers. Pretty decent program at the version 1.0 of NVU for most things HTML. Easy to switch from code to wsyiwyg, etc, see tags only, stuff like that. I liked it. Correction: I like it; don't seem to have to go thru much of a curve after not useing it for months at a time. Fusion it sort of depends. If you're familair with flat & relational databases it'll come to you a lot quicker then otherwise because you'll know why some things are as they are. It's kind of like MS Word: you'll be semi-productive right away, actually productive in a couple-three weeks of experience with it, and fully productive depends on whether you want to explore & sandbox with all the features & how complex your site will be. Since you're considering NVU I'd say to curve (ymmv of course) in my case was about 2 weeks to get everything under control that I "needed" and several more weeks of experimenting with pieces here & there to pick up some of the neater features. CTRL-T is probably the most missed feature for adding HTML manually to various parts; not well documented but very powerful. Does PHP and ASP but IMO not very efficiently and I can't get it to quit creating javascript for forms which I don't allow on my form designs. I like it well enough I'll put up with their highway robbery of overpriced upgrades for existing customers. IMO they have a habit of calling a bug fix an upgrade so you do have to check what it is before you pay money. At the same time it's not over-priced and I'm probably a lifelong customer unless they price me out in the future. If you download a trial version, you can learn a lot. There is also a "free" fully functional version that looks like rev 7.5 to me; I forget what it's called right now. it's currently at rev 14. But the diffs aren't too hard to manage if you move up to 14 which I would very highly recommend. Skip all of the in between versions. I recommend you check the site, try the freebie version out, check their forums, and go from there. Newsgroups are at news.netobjects.com but that's actually an extension for the forums, so you'll still have to "sign up" and use a real email addy to do any posting. Lurk & see what's up first. That's about as candidly as I can describe it. It's a great package! I'd rate it about an 8 on a ten-scale. One last piece of advice: If you aren't fluent in HTML or nearly so at least, not that it's necessary with Fusion, but it sure helps, start with NVU or Kompozer or whatever it is now. I'm going to go check it out myself in fact. HTH Twayne From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Fri Oct 24 12:34:03 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Fri Oct 24 12:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: <7iO8Dr+gN7$IFw3n@dev.null.davjam.org> Message-ID: > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Borgholio wrote:- > >> Ian Smith wrote: >>> Kompozer is very Mickey Mouse - simple, and free! >>> regards, Ian >> >> What is involved in creating a web that auto-scales according to the >> browser resolution of the person viewing the site? Not hard; stick to using % instead of hard sizing and it works well. That way 50% becomes 50% regardless of the monitor size, resolution, etc.. Use FireFox or one of the others for design work and avoid IE except to be sure it displays OK in IE. IE has a large Quirky set. Or at least use strict code setting. Is it flash, >> Java, or can it be done with normal HTML? Can be done with HTML. Not everyone has javascripts turned on anymore so you can't depend on the code executing for everyone. JAVA of course, is a different story, but I assumed you meant javascript when you said "Java". Jave does not equal javascript - two entirely different things. Same question goes for >> creating a set of borders that never changes, only the content in >> the center changes as you click on links. > > Use a frameset. You can have a fixed-size menu in the left hand frame, > and a variable-sized frame where the content is placed. You could even > add a fixed-size frame to the right of the content frame to add things > like Google ads. To make sure the pages in the menu are opened in the > content frame, give that frame a name and specify it as a target for > the URL. But realize, search engines have problems with frames and don't like them. It makes it a lot harder to get a high rating from the Googles of the world. You have to be sure to keep your robots.txt and no-follows up to date so the crawlers don;t get lost in unexpected frames. IMO it's a lot better to use faux-frames; just duplicate what you want on each page and call it a master border. Frames these days are bad news for "public" sites, but where you know exactly who your audience is going to be (say a professional org, club, etc.) well known, then they are much more usable because you don't care about the search engines. If this is news to you, some research on Search Engine Optimization (SEO) would be worthwhile for you. Don't take my or anyone's word for things like this; get to the horse's mouth if you can. Lots of info out there for you for research, including at Google; excellent source. Google.ca has some good stuff too. My 2 1/2 ¢ anyway. Twayne > > A cheap and very plain demo is here: > > > > with the source pages in an archive here: > > > > > Regards, > David Bolt . From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Oct 25 15:24:13 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Oct 25 15:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] freeware needed Message-ID: Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma files? From borgholio at storymind.com Sat Oct 25 18:14:46 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Sat Oct 25 18:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma files? I suggest fire, and lots of it. From nobody at spamcop.net Sat Oct 25 19:00:32 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Sat Oct 25 19:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:ge05oe$aqq$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma files? > > I suggest fire, and lots of it. Looks like I'm going to have to buy some software. In the process of dicking around with trying to upload the DRM protected songs to my MP3 player, I somehow managed to delete most of the music on the player! Fscking idiot. From MikeE at ster.invalid Sat Oct 25 19:59:12 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sat Oct 25 20:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma files? This is a subject with some complexity. Read the wiki for background http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Media_DRM ... and evolution between cracks and enhancements and cracks and enhancements. Then see this freeware site http://undrm.info/remove-DRM-protection/FairUse4WM-freeware-DRM-removal-Wi ndows-software-Strip-copy-protection-from-WMV-ASF-WMA-Windows-Media-Player .htm or http://snipr.com/4pbkm Freeware DRM removal Windows software. Strip copy-protection from .WMV, .ASF, .WMA (Windows Media Player 9, 10, 11) ... and faq http://undrm.info/faq/removing-DRM/ ... and forum http://stream-recorder.com/forum/removing-copy-protection-like-drm-aacs-f2 5.html?s=9944b9aa572ffbe8b5ea78ddd1d4b447&f=25 or http://snipr.com/4pblq Audio/video stream recording forums > Media file management - Removing copy-protection (like DRM, AACS) -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From loyal at spamcop.user Sun Oct 26 12:44:01 2008 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Sun Oct 26 12:45:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma files? If such things were easily available, then DRM would be rendered useless. Your best bet, assuming that you don't violate the DCMA, would be to go through the analog hole. That is, record the audio file to a CD and then rip the CD. Or play on one computer, sending the output audio to the input audio of a second computer. AndrewB From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Sun Oct 26 13:09:42 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Sun Oct 26 13:10:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed References: Message-ID: > Indigo wrote: >> Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma >> files? > > If such things were easily available, then DRM would be rendered > useless. > Your best bet, assuming that you don't violate the DCMA, would be to > go through the analog hole. That is, record the audio file to a CD > and then rip the CD. Or play on one computer, sending the output > audio to the input audio of a second computer. > > > AndrewB Or play it and record it with Audacity. Takes realtime, but ... better than nothing. From borgholio at storymind.com Sun Oct 26 18:27:10 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Sun Oct 26 18:30:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: <7iO8Dr+gN7$IFw3n@dev.null.davjam.org> Message-ID: I downloaded a 30 day trial of Microsoft Expression, their latest web-authoring tool. It's supposed to be a replacement for Frontpage. So far it seems to work allright. In order to replicate the functionality of Frontpage's shared borders, I have started using Dynamic Web Templates...and the end result is the same. Expression also supports the latest in web design such as CSS, which Frontpage does not. So if I were to upgrade, it would be a step forward in terms of what I could do with a site. However, I don't know squat about anything except basic HTML...so those extra features will be lost on me. Anybody have any opinions on Expression? Or probably more important, if I can do what I need right now with shared borders, is there any point in upgrading to a newer program such as Expression or Dreamweaver? From jzeitlin at spamcop.net Mon Oct 27 07:59:52 2008 From: jzeitlin at spamcop.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?E=F6nw=EB?=) Date: Mon Oct 27 08:00:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: <7iO8Dr+gN7$IFw3n@dev.null.davjam.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:27:10 -0700, Borgholio wrote: >I downloaded a 30 day trial of Microsoft Expression, their latest >web-authoring tool. It's supposed to be a replacement for Frontpage. So >far it seems to work allright. In order to replicate the functionality of >Frontpage's shared borders, I have started using Dynamic Web >Templates...and the end result is the same. Expression also supports the >latest in web design such as CSS, which Frontpage does not. Uhh... What do you mean by 'Frontpage does not [support CSS]'? I use FrontPage 2003 for my website (Freelance Traveller, http://www.freelancetraveller.com), and I use CSS heavily, with no problems. >So if I were to upgrade, it would be a step forward in terms of what I >could do with a site. However, I don't know squat about anything except >basic HTML...so those extra features will be lost on me. Anybody have any >opinions on Expression? Or probably more important, if I can do what I >need right now with shared borders, is there any point in upgrading to a >newer program such as Expression or Dreamweaver? I found Expression Web 1.0 to be deficient in site management tools, which I feel is actually a strong point of FrontPage. I have not looked at Expression Web 2.0, so I can't speak to that. I also found that ExWeb1 seemed to want ASP.NET for many things that FrontPage had done with design-time FrontPage "Web Components"; this has a tendency to try to lock you into a Windows-based web server. -- E?nw? (SpamCop subscriber, not staff/admin) From borgholio at storymind.com Mon Oct 27 14:23:29 2008 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Mon Oct 27 14:25:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: <7iO8Dr+gN7$IFw3n@dev.null.davjam.org> Message-ID: E?nw? wrote: > Uhh... What do you mean by 'Frontpage does not [support CSS]'? I use > FrontPage 2003 for my website (Freelance Traveller, > http://www.freelancetraveller.com), and I use CSS heavily, with no > problems. > I use Frontpage 2000. Haven't upgraded to 2003. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Oct 27 23:02:36 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Oct 27 23:05:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Mike Easter" wrote in message news:ge0bsf$vv1$1@news.spamcop.net... > Indigo wrote: >> Anyone know of a freeware app for stripping DRM rights from .wma files?> > Then see this freeware site > http://undrm.info/remove-DRM-protection/FairUse4WM-freeware-DRM-removal-Wi > ndows-software-Strip-copy-protection-from-WMV-ASF-WMA-Windows-Media-Player > .htm or http://snipr.com/4pbkm Freeware DRM removal Windows software. > Strip copy-protection from .WMV, .ASF, .WMA (Windows Media Player 9, 10, > 11) Yeah, I looked at that several times but you seem to need licences to remove the protection. And it's a one at a time PITA process, IIRC. I ended up buying DRM Coverter Pro-Rip for $40, it converts the napster .wma files to unprotected mp3s, plus it can rip DVDs too. I spent 2 days looking for freeware, doesn't look like any exists that really works. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Oct 27 23:05:31 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Oct 27 23:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message news:ge288n$pfu$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Or play it and record it with Audacity. Takes realtime, but ... better > than nothing. > I tried Audacity awhile ago, way too slow for the volume of tracks I'm converting. Bought a commercial package instead, works fine. BTW, while searching for shareware rippers/converters, it appears that most of them are all based on the same basic code with slightly different GUIs. I must have installed about ten trial versions, and they all functioned almost exactly the same way. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Oct 27 23:13:00 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Mon Oct 27 23:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Indigo" wrote in message news:ge5vhp$igi$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > I tried Audacity awhile ago, way too slow for the volume of tracks I'm > converting. Bought a commercial package instead, works fine. BTW, while > searching for shareware rippers/converters, it appears that most of them > are all based on the same basic code with slightly different GUIs. I must > have installed about ten trial versions, and they all functioned almost > exactly the same way. BTW, as I'm learning to create playlists and upload songs to my newish MP3 player using Rhapsody (mostly), I stumbled upon a completely stupid factoid -- everytime I create a playlist and download it to the player, the stupid software actually downloads each song again, even though some of them are already on the player! I actually ended up with 6 copies of one song on the player, had to manually go thru the library song list in Raphsody and delete all the duplicates. How stupid is that? I had consumed almost half the capacity of the player with duplicates of songs! From jzeitlin at spamcop.net Mon Oct 27 23:20:53 2008 From: jzeitlin at spamcop.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?E=F6nw=EB?=) Date: Mon Oct 27 23:25:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Need replacement for Frontpage References: <7iO8Dr+gN7$IFw3n@dev.null.davjam.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:23:29 -0700, Borgholio wrote: >E?nw? wrote: > >> Uhh... What do you mean by 'Frontpage does not [support CSS]'? I use >> FrontPage 2003 for my website (Freelance Traveller, >> http://www.freelancetraveller.com), and I use CSS heavily, with no >> problems. >I use Frontpage 2000. Haven't upgraded to 2003. OK, I'm sorry, but I really can't be of much help to you at this point - I quite frankly don't remember FP2K; it's been too long since I used it. I'd suggest upgrading to '03, but you can't find it in retail channels any longer, and MS no longer provides support. ExWeb is the recommended replacement from Microsoft, and I haven't looked at the current version yet - but I stuck with FP over ExWeb1 because of the issues I mentioned previously. I have a copy of Dreamweaver MX, but I don't use it - Dreamweaver uses an entirely different paradigm from FrontPage, and I simply wasn't able to wrap my head around it. -- E?nw? (SpamCop subscriber, not staff/admin) From loafman at spamcop.net Tue Oct 28 17:13:51 2008 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Tue Oct 28 17:15:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: VS2008 is such a POS it's not even funny References: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:54:37 +0000, Charles wrote: > So, let's see... It's a dev env't that crashes at least once every 15 > minutes. It doesn't crash more often than that because it takes it 14 > minutes to recover from a crash. This is not on a dog of a computer, > trust me. MS is bugging me. Ahh, the joys of MickeySoft! From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Tue Oct 28 20:32:34 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Tue Oct 28 20:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Billion $$ law suit Message-ID: This makes for kind of neat reading: http://www.viruslist.com/en/news?id=208274076 I'm afraid it's wishful thinking, but ... I'd love to see it work! Twayne From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Tue Oct 28 20:38:25 2008 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Twayne) Date: Tue Oct 28 20:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed References: Message-ID: > "Indigo" wrote in message > news:ge5vhp$igi$1@news.spamcop.net... > >>> >> I tried Audacity awhile ago, way too slow for the volume of tracks >> I'm converting. Bought a commercial package instead, works fine. >> BTW, while searching for shareware rippers/converters, it appears >> that most of them are all based on the same basic code with slightly >> different GUIs. I must have installed about ten trial versions, and >> they all functioned almost exactly the same way. > > BTW, as I'm learning to create playlists and upload songs to my > newish MP3 player using Rhapsody (mostly), I stumbled upon a > completely stupid factoid -- everytime I create a playlist and > download it to the > player, the stupid software actually downloads each song again, even > though some of them are already on the player! I actually ended up > with 6 copies of one song on the player, had to manually go thru the > library song list in Raphsody and delete all the duplicates. How > stupid is that? I had consumed almost half the capacity of the player > with duplicates of songs! I noticed that awhile back. Raphsody(sp?) & Real Player stuff does so much web checking if you let them, they'll eat up a lot of bandwidth. Makes for an easy way for them to spot pirated music too, I bet, with all that up-going singalling going on. I don't use them anymore just for that reason. It's WMP and no outgoing allowed or nothing for me now. It's amazing the amount of stuff those things send out if you let them. I won't even listen to anything I can't have on my hard drive either. These days I usually choose the radio programs and let Audacity record them if it's a good session. Twayne From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Oct 28 22:50:39 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Tue Oct 28 22:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Twayne" wrote in message news:ge8b9r$2jf$1@news.spamcop.net... > I noticed that awhile back. Raphsody(sp?) & Real Player stuff does so > much web checking if you let them, they'll eat up a lot of bandwidth. > Makes for an easy way for them to spot pirated music too, I bet, with all > that up-going singalling going on. I don't use them anymore just for that > reason. It's WMP and no outgoing allowed or nothing for me now. Yes, I spent part of the day experimenting with those 3 players to see which one behaved "smartly". WMP really surprised me -- not even did it not duplicate song titles, and it chose whether the MP3 file or a newly converted WMA file would be smaller, and did the conversion on the fly. I had no idea that WMA's were smaller than MP3's for the equivalent bit rate. I'm currently furiously downloading as many songs as I can every day while my 14 day free trial of Napster is valid, I already know that the pitiful 2 GB memory on my MP3 player (I didn't know at the time was tiny) is going to be way too small to hold everything I'm downloading and ripping from my own CDs. Most MP3's I had already ripped before I bought it were 3-4k KB, Napster downloads are coming in around 5-6k KB, twice as big as I was used to, meaning I bought half the storage capacity I thought I was getting. From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 03:14:23 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 03:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? I mean, seriously. > Going back and using programs written with msflexgrids is brutal - > there's no scrolling! Arg! Who wrote this stuff?!? But that's a > counter example anyway. The wheel mouse rocks. There are some behavioral and ergonomic interface considerations afoot there. Some people live with one hand on a mouse. Other people like to keep both their hands on the keyboard almost all the time. Then there are those who prefer to move one hand back and forth between the keyboard and the mouse. As I'm sitting here communicating with you as a touch typist, both of my hands are on the keyboard. Should I take one of them off to mouse-send? -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Oct 29 09:34:20 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Wed Oct 29 09:35:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Charles" wrote in message news:Xns9B4654CD0546TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > It wasn't me! It was "Mike Easter" ! > >> As I'm sitting here communicating with you as a touch typist, both of my >> hands are on the keyboard. Should I take one of them off to mouse-send? > > Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do! I have 2 engineers who use > keyboards with a pointer in the middle. I prefer to send with the > keyboard > - ctl-enter. Of course, that doesn't work with this newsreader. I'd have > to (gasp) hit F8. F9 on my keyboard to send......not like I knew that without looking first though ;-) From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 10:06:29 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 10:10:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > "Charles" >> "Mike Easter" >>> As I'm sitting here communicating with you as a touch typist, both of >>> my hands are on the keyboard. Should I take one of them off to >>> mouse-send? >> I prefer to send with the keyboard - ctl-enter. >> Of course, that doesn't work with this newsreader. I'd >> have to (gasp) hit F8. > > F9 on my keyboard to send......not like I knew that without looking > first though ;-) Even my clunky OE which all of the gurus in news.software.readers love to hate will send with alt-S. I use my keyboard enough to do things that it is ergonomically better for me to enable sticky keys, thus if I use R little finger alt, I can leave hit it and leave it before I use L ring finger S. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 10:14:25 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 10:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? The reason for my getting into the keyboardist's preferences for alt-S message sending and using sticky keys to do it is that the keyboardist-prone has a different viewpoint about wheelmice and other such as 3 and 4 button mice, because s/he is liable to be scrolling with the keyboard. For example, I have 3 stations I use around here. Two of them have scrollmice and one of them doesn't - it's a regular 2 button. The one I use 90% of the time is the one which doesn't have the scrollwheel. It seems that if I truly appreciated the scrollwheel that I would either move one of the less used one's to this station or buy another scrollwheel mouse. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 10:18:24 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 10:20:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > move one of the less used one's to this station one's ?!? furrfu/sheesh -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 14:36:23 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 14:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: How did we ever survive without the wheel mouse? References: Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > "Mike Easter" >>> move one of the less used [ones] to this station > I guess that means I shouldn't mention that I have five desktops and > a laptop at my desk and I am expecting two more desktops before the end > of the year. :-) Yes, it is sometimes embarrassing to admit those things -- those 3 mice 'stations' I mentioned are each on a 2 box KVM switch, so the 3 mice are handling 6 desktop towers. I don't have a laptop -- but one of the station's/2desktopKVM boxen are both configured to be wired or wireless and the station is on rollers. When I roll it elsewhere, its wireless access is enhanced by a wired wireless access point which I have extended from the router's 'hidden' position to a position which has a much greater range. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Oct 29 15:35:31 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Bar0) Date: Wed Oct 29 15:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Has anyone switched the default encarption on a 2-Wire (Brand) wireless modem/router to WPA? Message-ID: Folks, I've got an ATT DSL line with the 2-Wire Modem/Router supplied by SBC/ATT/ whatever it was a coupl'a years back. I believe it supports both WPA and WEP (the default) encryption protocols. Since the only time we enabled the wireless was when we had guests I didn't worry too much, but now that our son is returning home for a while with a wireless enabled laptop, I'd like to switch to the slightly more secure protocol. (WEP can be cracked so easily and rapidly, it is effectively "Plain Text" to anyone who scans and taps into wireless "conversations". Has anyone done this? or must it be done on the wireless computer? IFIRC there was a toggle somewhere when I set it up. Not having my kids computers to hand and no other wireless boxen to play with I'm asking here in case it's a lot simpler than I expect. From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 16:38:02 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 16:40:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Has anyone switched the default encarption on a 2-Wire (Brand) wireless modem/router to WPA? References: Message-ID: Bar0 wrote: > much, but now that our son is returning home for a while with a > wireless enabled laptop, I'd like to switch to the slightly more secure > protocol. Good idea. > (WEP can be cracked so easily and rapidly, it is effectively "Plain > Text" to anyone who scans and taps into wireless "conversations". Correct. WEP is good enough to prevent 'accidental' acquisition of an 'open' signal, but anyone who cares anything about cracking wep won't have any trouble doing so. Some would do it just for the 'sport' or fun of it. > Has anyone done this? or must it be done on the wireless computer? IFIRC > there was a toggle somewhere when I set it up. Not having my kids > computers to hand and no other wireless boxen to play with I'm asking > here in case it's a lot simpler than I expect. I always configure my router (which is cable not adsl) via a wired connection. The 2-wire site sez all of their home adsl gateways support wpa, but the screenshots they provide are extermely lorez and you can't read them. The text only describes enabling/configuring the WEP. The http address of the 2-wire I looked at^1 was ttp://gateway.2wire.net - which is a different way than mine have done it, which use an IP address. ^1 http://support.2wire.com/?page=view&article=47 Wireless Quick Reference -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From MikeE at ster.invalid Wed Oct 29 17:14:31 2008 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Wed Oct 29 17:15:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Has anyone switched the default encarption on a 2-Wire (Brand) wireless modem/router to WPA? References: Message-ID: Mike Easter wrote: > The 2-wire site sez all of their home adsl gateways support > wpa, but the screenshots they provide are extermely lorez and you can't > read them. The text only describes enabling/configuring the WEP. The gfx aren't actually as bad as I tho't, my browser was displaying them in an 'off' rez. Here's a pic of where you configure for WPA instead of WEP http://support.2wire.com/view/60/Wireless_public5.png That middle tool/menu in the Settings - Wireless Security which is on WEP looks like it should have probably 2 different kinds of WPA setting choices if you click the arrow. The .png came from http://support.2wire.com/?page=view&article=60 To change your Residential Gateway wireless settings: > The http address of the 2-wire I looked at^1 was > ttp://gateway.2wire.net - which is a different way than mine have done > it, which use an IP address. That http lost its 'h' - http://gateway.2wire.net -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From loyal at spamcop.user Wed Oct 29 23:57:51 2008 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Thu Oct 30 00:00:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: Has anyone switched the default encarption on a 2-Wire (Brand) wireless modem/router to WPA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I've got an ATT DSL line with the 2-Wire Modem/Router supplied by > SBC/ATT/ whatever it was a coupl'a years back. I believe it supports > both WPA and WEP (the default) encryption protocols. Since the only time > we enabled the wireless was when we had guests I didn't worry too much, > but now that our son is returning home for a while with a wireless > enabled laptop, I'd like to switch to the slightly more secure protocol. Slightly? I don't even think WEP is considered secure for anything these days. It ought to be banned as a protocol. But that's drastic. > (WEP can be cracked so easily and rapidly, it is effectively "Plain > Text" to anyone who scans and taps into wireless "conversations". Yes. It takes minutes, if that, to crack WEP. > Has anyone done this? or must it be done on the wireless computer? IFIRC > there was a toggle somewhere when I set it up. Not having my kids > computers to hand and no other wireless boxen to play with I'm asking > here in case it's a lot simpler than I expect. Usually you have to configure the router to do WPA, as well as seed it with a password/phrase. Then on any other computers, you have to use that same phrase to gain access. It's called PSK for "Pre-Shared Key". Good passwords can be had from https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm If you have an old USB stick drive, put the phrase in a text file on it. Typing in 63 or 64 random characters can get maddening after a while. The more complex the password, the less chance of a dictionary attack against your router, and thusly, a hijacking of your Internet connection. AndrewB From loyal at spamcop.user Thu Oct 30 01:25:00 2008 From: loyal at spamcop.user (AndrewB) Date: Thu Oct 30 01:25:04 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indigo wrote: > I'm currently furiously downloading as many songs as I can every day > while my 14 day free trial of Napster is valid, I already know that the > pitiful 2 GB memory on my MP3 player (I didn't know at the time was > tiny) is going to be way too small to hold everything I'm downloading > and ripping from my own CDs. Most MP3's I had already ripped before I > bought it were 3-4k KB, Napster downloads are coming in around 5-6k KB, > twice as big as I was used to, meaning I bought half the storage > capacity I thought I was getting. The capacity issue depends on what you intend to play the music on. With bud like earphones, the lower bit rates are probably ok, especially if you are going to listen in noisy environments like a gym, bus, train, etc. If you'll be playing them at home on your speakers with > 4" cones (number arbitrarily chosen; your mileage may vary, etc), you might want the higher bit rates. And higher bit rates with classical. A lot of popular music today is mixed loud to begin with, so it sounds better in earphones. On my 2gb player, I have 7-8 entire cds at 56k or 64k sample rates that take up about 1gb, and use the other gigabyte for podcasts. Sounds ok for my earbuds. AndrewB From me at privacy.net Thu Oct 30 16:53:51 2008 From: me at privacy.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Oct 30 16:55:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] verizon FiOS?? Message-ID: We have the option to sub to VZN FiOS with what appears to be a good deal. ($89 to $109 per month for the triple package) One option is a land line via FiOS the alternative is wireless phones/ I'd appreciate any input on good, bad and traps I need to be aware of before signing up? TIA FP From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Oct 30 23:07:19 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Oct 30 23:10:03 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: verizon FiOS?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:ged6sv$5sj$1@news.spamcop.net... > We have the option to sub to VZN FiOS with what appears to be a good deal. > ($89 to $109 per month for the triple package) > > One option is a land line via FiOS the alternative is wireless phones/ > > I'd appreciate any input on good, bad and traps I need to be aware of > before > signing up? I've recently looked into FIOS service. Pros: I could drop my land line service ($35/month) since landline service is included for free in FIOS. I'd stay away from VOIP, since if your modem goes down so does your phone service. One big problem between FIOS and cable is that with FIOS you will need to rent a converter box for every TV in your house, with digital cable you at least get channels 2-72 without needing a converter. Also, Verizon FIOS DVRs do not support PIP TV, if you use that. I could probably cut my phone/cable/internet bill by almost $100/mo temporarily with the specials they're running right now, but I lose my PIP and eventually I'll have to pay full price for premium movie channels (you only get them for one month free). Plus, the STB and DVR A/V outputs do not match the current outputs from my Comcast STB, so I'd lose some digital A/V services for my stereo surround sound system without some major rewiring and trickery. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Oct 30 23:17:16 2008 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Indigo) Date: Thu Oct 30 23:20:02 2008 Subject: [Scgeeks] Re: freeware needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "AndrewB" wrote in message news:gebgfa$5qk$1@news.spamcop.net... > > The capacity issue depends on what you intend to play the music on. With > bud like earphones, the lower bit rates are probably ok, especially if you > are going to listen in noisy environments like a gym, bus, train, etc. If > you'll be playing them at home on your speakers with > 4" cones (number > arbitrarily chosen; your mileage may vary, etc), you might want the higher > bit rates. And higher bit rates with classical. A lot of popular music > today is mixed loud to begin with, so it sounds better in earphones. I primarily use the MP3 player to listen to via bluetooth headphones while I work outside. Can't really imagine too many times where I'd play them over a regular stereo system. > > On my 2gb player, I have 7-8 entire cds at 56k or 64k sample rates that > take up about 1gb, and use the other gigabyte for podcasts. Sounds ok for > my earbuds. > Weirdness abounds.....for one, I recently discovered that .wma files are smaller than MP3s. I have Napster set to download at a max bit rate of 190 kbps, but when I look at the file properties they're all over the place, bit rate-wise, some are higher and some are lower. I rip the Napster files to MP3s to remove the DRM protection, then WMP decides which file is smaller (wma or mp3). The wma's are copy protected, so I don't know how DRM Converter pro can rip the original wma file to my player. BTW, I've discovered that Rhapsody sucks, and WMP is great for creating playlists and uploading the files to my player. Rhapsody creates duplicate files for songs on multiple playlists, sucking up memory. WMP doesn't do that, and it's actually a tad easier to use IMO. I have WMP set to transfer files at 160 kbps, but when you look at the files on the player the bit rate shows up as zero, so I don't really know what it is.