From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Sat Apr 1 10:33:51 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Sat Apr 1 03:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: Redstone wrote on Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:01:03 +0000 (UTC): > 5am in the morning.. As opposed to what, 5am in the evening? :) From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Sat Apr 1 10:42:14 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Sat Apr 1 03:45:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Hands up those who turned their clocks the wrong way! References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote on Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:15:52 +0000 (UTC): >> How many of your computers have had Windows cohabiting with another O/S? > > Maybe one. You didn't say anything about it cohabiting with another OS. Stewart Gordon did, which is why the thread went that way: > Must be a nightmare if you have more than one OS on your system and > they handle timezones in incompatible ways. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Apr 1 10:16:49 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Sat Apr 1 04:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "D-W-S" wrote in message news:slrne2senf.1urd.dws@dealing-with-spam.info... > Redstone wrote on Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:01:03 +0000 (UTC): > >> 5am in the morning.. > > As opposed to what, 5am in the evening? :) No. 5pm in the morning..... ;-) From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 10:59:19 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 05:00:39 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Chris Wright wrote in > news:e0k1t0$fp0$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> When I asked him why he was so shocked, he said he didn't think I >> would want a black kid in my pool. >> That, was even more shocking to me. >> > > That is shocking and I guess it speaks to the sort of people who he usually > encountered in your neighbourhood. > As he was a new business, it was his first time in 'our' neighbourhood. He had done most of his work over in Dallas and this was the first time he had ventured so far from home. He pretty much ended up doing every house in the street (since they were all new builds). I think it was more of the general attitude he got from most of his clients. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 11:05:08 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 05:05:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Frog Prince wrote: >> "indigo" >> >> | The Great Wall of China worked for centuries, didn't it? >> >> Might have kept the Scotts out but apparently had little effect on the >> English. > > Kept the Huns away, didn't it? > > No, they came down from Norway via Sub/Boat. No one got through England to get to Scotland, we wouldn't let them. We look after our neighbors now ;) From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 11:12:28 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 05:15:17 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Chris F. Willoughby wrote: > Actually, you cannot see if from space. > Well Ok, you and I can't see it from space. Or is it because there is so much smog coming from China these days. Can you really not see it from space? Was that just myth then? > "Chris Wright" wrote in message > news:e0k20j$fp0$2@news.spamcop.net... >> Yeah, but Hadrians wall was only 15ft tall and smaller in places. >> >> The Great Wall of China could be seen from space, whereas you couldn't see >> Hadrians wall until you stood on top of the darn thing. >> >> It was more symbolic than practical. > > From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 11:17:35 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 05:20:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Build a Border Wall...continued In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Eponym" | > | > > | > | > > | > | > Eponym wrote: > | > | >> > | > | >> Billions? How could it be any more expensive than highways? > | > | > > | > | > Hey bub, it's going to cost $2 billion to build an 18 mile long DC > | > Beltway > | > | > bypass between I-95 and Rt-270 (and the state already owns all the > | > land). > | > | > And you want to bury the highway 20 ft underground too. > | > | > > | > | > | > | Another point on the security deposit idea...it would make the people > | > here > | > | illegally responsible for paying the cost to further improve border > | > | security. So, in time, the costs for the infrastructure necessary > would > | > be > | > | recovered....maybe quickly, if illegal immigration continues at the > | > current > | > | rates. > | > > | > Security walls have been tried before recall the Margino (spl?) wall of > | > pre > | > WW.I.I? > | > > | > | Yeah....but everyone knows the French can't do anything right! :oP > > They've got to be smarter then the clowns we have in Washington > > erm.... non! From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 11:22:08 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 05:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "indigo" > > | The Great Wall of China worked for centuries, didn't it? > > Might have kept the Scotts out but apparently had little effect on the > English. > > We were* a right bunch of persistent buggers who had empire building in their blood. Must hark back to their roman roots. *were - matter of opinion to the correct tense of this. From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 06:18:38 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Apr 1 06:50:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" | > | >> 5am in the morning.. | > | > As opposed to what, 5am in the evening? :) | | No. 5pm in the morning..... ;-) I'm retired, time (on the clock) has little meaning in my life. (I'll be late for my own funeral) From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Sat Apr 1 13:39:22 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Sat Apr 1 07:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote: > Frog Prince wrote: >> "indigo" >> >> | The Great Wall of China worked for centuries, didn't it? >> >> Might have kept the Scotts out but apparently had little effect on the >> English. > > We were* a right bunch of persistent buggers who had empire building in > their blood. Must hark back to their roman roots. > > *were - matter of opinion to the correct tense of this. It sounds like what made Hadrian's wall work was it was used offensively instead of defensively. It was used as a base and as somewhere to keep a lookout and when things looked bad, the garrisons would sweep forward north of the wall to deal with them. And the grand scale of the wall awed the locals. And after a few hundred years, sex played its part. The garrison troops married into the local population. The Romans were fairly effective in their empire building because of how they integrated the new territories into the empire. They would use a lot of the existing power structure and as long as they gave their allegiance to Rome first and paid their taxes and all that, they had a relatively free hand in what they could do locally. And Rome seemed particularly fond of importing new beliefs and gods and religions, as long as the new religions didn't threaten the power structure. And a lot of them spread from the provinces back to Rome itself. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Sat Apr 1 13:48:38 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Sat Apr 1 07:50:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote: > Chris F. Willoughby wrote: >> Actually, you cannot see if from space. > > Well Ok, you and I can't see it from space. > > Or is it because there is so much smog coming from China these days. > > Can you really not see it from space? Was that just myth then? I think it depends on your definition of seeing and of space. You can see it with the naked eye in a low earth orbit, but you can also see a lot of other man made objects from there. A few thousand miles up though, and you would have a lot of trouble seeing it. With a telescope and a camera, no problem then. I see that the shuttle orbits at 135 miles up and from there plenty of things are visible, far more than just the Great Wall. And the space station is about 250 miles up. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/visible_from_space_031006.html From six.million at dollar.man Sat Apr 1 08:41:08 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Sat Apr 1 08:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] No Brokeback Bahamas? Message-ID: See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189758,00.html Looks like the Bahamian Government is censoring Brokeback Mountain. Gay rights groups are up in arms. From six.million at dollar.man Sat Apr 1 08:44:42 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Sat Apr 1 08:45:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-B6FEBB.15082831032006@frylock.local... > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?th&emc=th > (logon: helmsthingy/photonic) > > > Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who > were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found. > > And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of > post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps > because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers > suggested. > > Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether > prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and > involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of > speculation. > So is this an indictment of the power of prayer? I guess it depends on the skills of the person doing the praying. After all, "the power of plumbing" depends on the skill of the plumbers. Your house will be flooded if the plumbers are Moe, Larry and Shemp. Just a thought... Prayers have resulted in verifiable healing... so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. From MikeE at ster.invalid Sat Apr 1 07:58:17 2006 From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter) Date: Sat Apr 1 11:00:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: No Brokeback Bahamas? References: Message-ID: dw?c?n wrote: > Looks like the Bahamian Government is censoring Brokeback Mountain. Actually officially it is the Plays and Films Control Board in Nassau - liaisoned by Chavasse Turnquest-Liriano, a rather melodious name. They responded to the request by the Bahamas Christian Council -- which BCC allegedly is "made up of members from the Anglican, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Adventists, Church of God, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian and Greek Orthodox as well as other non-denominational churches" ... and which BCC has taken stands and organized demonstrations against gay cruise ship stops in the Bahamas in the past. The wiki characterizes the Bahamas as -- // A "heavily religious" country, there are more places of worship per person in the Bahamas than any other nation in the world. // Mostly Christians -- 1/3 Baptist, then Anglican, Roman Catholic. -- Mike Easter kibitzer, not SC admin From avoozl at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 09:46:40 2006 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sat Apr 1 12:50:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: Lord knows someone would misinterpret what I said. I don't mean programs for African-Americans. I mean the OTHER kind of black projects. "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns97978467B25C2spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > I don't need to ask if you're a racist. Why cut the 'black' programs > (whatever they are - do they have programs just for black people?)? Why > not > cut funding for all libraries, or medicare, or welfare in general, or hey, > how's about education? Let's have it so only rich folk can send their kids > to school! That'd be a huge budget saving.. never mind that there'd be > millions of uneducated vagrant kids growing into troublemaking vagrant > adults who are even more ignorant than they are today.... From avoozl at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 09:49:01 2006 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sat Apr 1 12:50:19 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0k5gj$i63$1@news.spamcop.net... > > How about getting our soldiers out of Iraq to start? > > If that would work without ruining the army's morale AND we were sure Iraq's and its people could reasonably succeed on their own, sure. From avoozl at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 09:52:21 2006 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sat Apr 1 12:55:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: was blah blah References: Message-ID: As someone else said in another thread, it depends on how high up you are. I was thinking of Geosync orbits or something of similar height. I'm not a fan of Snopes but here's their page about it. http://www.snopes.com/science/greatwal.htm "indigo" wrote in message news:e0k5m4$icp$2@news.spamcop.net... > Yes, you can. I've seen the photos taken from the shuttle. > > > From avoozl at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 09:57:43 2006 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sat Apr 1 13:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: was blah blah References: Message-ID: To be clear. That article is about if the great wall is the ONLY man-made object you can see from space. So, it's not quite directly applicable. :) "Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message news:e0meio$rhn$1@news.spamcop.net... > As someone else said in another thread, it depends on how high up you are. > I was thinking of Geosync orbits or something of similar height. I'm not > a fan of Snopes but here's their page about it. > > http://www.snopes.com/science/greatwal.htm From avoozl at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 09:59:47 2006 From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby) Date: Sat Apr 1 13:00:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: was blah blah References: Message-ID: Damn, it's actually from the moon. Oh well. "Chris F. Willoughby" wrote in message news:e0meio$rhn$1@news.spamcop.net... > As someone else said in another thread, it depends on how high up you are. > I was thinking of Geosync orbits or something of similar height. I'm not > a fan of Snopes but here's their page about it. > > http://www.snopes.com/science/greatwal.htm From dfm2a3l0t2 at spymac.com Sat Apr 1 14:17:44 2006 From: dfm2a3l0t2 at spymac.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Sat Apr 1 14:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: I can't believe the hoopla References: Message-ID: In article , David Dean wrote: > How did this get to the top of the pile of what is important in > america? It is almost getting to the same pitch of xenophobia and > isolationism that existed in Germany prior to WWII. Is that a > coincidence, or is it the plan? It's a plan. The Republicans are setting this up as a wedge issue for the midterm elections, the same way they used gay marriage in 2004. They can't run on Iraq, they can't run on the Shrub's record, they're vulnerable on corruption, raising the terror alert to aquamarine no longer works and the polls show the Democrats ahead on domestic issues. Immigration is about all the GOP has left. -- D.F. Manno dfm2a3l0t2@spymac.com In the republic of mediocrity genius is dangerous. (Robert G. Ingersoll) From bert at iphouse.com Sat Apr 1 20:22:42 2006 From: bert at iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) Date: Sat Apr 1 15:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: I can't believe the hoopla References: Message-ID: In news:Xns9797C73C27BE5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61 Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote: > Like, uh, is he saying that Taiwan is part of China? Or that > China has lands offshore??? The US government and China both seem to think so. China also claims sovereignty over the Spratly Islands. -- Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 17:38:03 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 1 17:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-B6FEBB.15082831032006@frylock.local... > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?th&emc=th > (logon: helmsthingy/photonic) > > > Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who > were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found. > > And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of > post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps > because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers > suggested. > > Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether > prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and > involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of > speculation. > I don't know very much about statistical analysis, but I wonder if the quotes about being 'chance' were wishful thinking (on the part of prayer advocates) or were statistically significant. OTOH, chance may play a part in healings attributed to prayer (and verified that medicine cannot explain the healing) - with the same logic that eventually a monkey playing with a keyboard can turn out Hamlet. Although Slyvesterthekat thinks it is hogwash, so much is unknown about prayer and how it works that sometimes it is best not to be too specific. Remember the Mark Twain story (and there is a modern one making the rounds also about how healing is not necessarily the best thing). Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 1 18:44:28 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Sat Apr 1 19:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Bush Preps for Third Term References: <3pDXf.3111$IG.2267@dukeread01> Message-ID: The US Department of Justice and the office of the White House Counsel are preparing a draft document laying out the President's wartime authority to remain in office past 2008. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/01/gwot_cha/ From lujanero at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 21:41:03 2006 From: lujanero at gmail.com (master) Date: Sat Apr 1 19:45:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] JAPONESAS Message-ID: http://linkbux.com/go.php?link=513018 From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sun Apr 2 03:36:59 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 20:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: dw?c?n wrote: > "David Dean" wrote in message > news:ozchzhq02-B6FEBB.15082831032006@frylock.local... >> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?th&emc=th >> (logon: helmsthingy/photonic) >> >> >> Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who >> were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found. >> >> And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of >> post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps >> because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers >> suggested. >> >> Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether >> prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and >> involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of >> speculation. >> > > > So is this an indictment of the power of prayer? I guess it depends on the > skills of the person doing the praying. > > After all, "the power of plumbing" depends on the skill of the plumbers. > Your house will be flooded if the plumbers are Moe, Larry and Shemp. > > Just a thought... > > Prayers have resulted in verifiable healing... so I wouldn't throw the baby > out with the bathwater. > > Isn't a lot of it to do with mind over matter, self will, self belief or call it what you want. Optimism rather than Pessimism. Keep telling yourself you will feel better and you probably will, keep telling yourself you are going to die and you most likely will (actually, of course you will, just sooner). Prayer is probably no different to those that believe in its powers (note I said 'those'). As to whether your prayers are heard and it is 'them' listening that do the healing, I doubt, but the power in self belief has been proven to be beneficial. (Probably something to do with reducing stress psychological and physical). As to whether 'anyONE' listens to prayers, don't get me started on that. Far too much suffering in the world. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sun Apr 2 03:38:07 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 1 20:40:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris F. Willoughby wrote: > Lord knows someone would misinterpret what I said. I don't mean programs > for African-Americans. I mean the OTHER kind of black projects. > > "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > news:Xns97978467B25C2spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... >> I don't need to ask if you're a racist. Why cut the 'black' programs >> (whatever they are - do they have programs just for black people?)? Why >> not >> cut funding for all libraries, or medicare, or welfare in general, or hey, >> how's about education? Let's have it so only rich folk can send their kids >> to school! That'd be a huge budget saving.. never mind that there'd be >> millions of uneducated vagrant kids growing into troublemaking vagrant >> adults who are even more ignorant than they are today.... > > Still, it did cause a chuckle, and I bet someone was blushing... From six.million at dollar.man Sun Apr 2 00:49:51 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Sun Apr 2 00:50:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" wrote in message news:e0n9r9$a9k$1@news.spamcop.net... > As to whether 'anyONE' listens to prayers, don't get me started on that. > Far too much suffering in the world. What amount of suffering would allow for someONE to be listening? From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sun Apr 2 12:40:50 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sun Apr 2 06:45:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: dw?c?n wrote: > "Chris Wright" wrote in message > news:e0n9r9$a9k$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> As to whether 'anyONE' listens to prayers, don't get me started on that. >> Far too much suffering in the world. > > What amount of suffering would allow for someONE to be listening? > > > In my book zero. No one should suffer, or rather no one should 'have' to suffer. AnyONE with compassion should not allow someone to suffer. (But then that opens up the can of worms that is....) Which is why I won't go there. From turan.fe at t-online.de Sun Apr 2 13:48:18 2006 From: turan.fe at t-online.de (Turan Fettahoglu) Date: Sun Apr 2 06:50:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Our local newspaper in Munich had this article on page 1 - on April Fools' Day! I thought this was the April sting! Turan From six.million at dollar.man Sun Apr 2 13:36:27 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Sun Apr 2 12:40:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" wrote in message news:e0o9n0$sf8$1@news.spamcop.net... > dwåcôn wrote: >> "Chris Wright" wrote in message >> news:e0n9r9$a9k$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >>> As to whether 'anyONE' listens to prayers, don't get me started on that. >>> Far too much suffering in the world. >> >> What amount of suffering would allow for someONE to be listening? >> >> >> > > In my book zero. No one should suffer, or rather no one should 'have' to > suffer. > AnyONE with compassion should not allow someone to suffer. > > (But then that opens up the can of worms that is....) > > Which is why I won't go there. So let's consider a way to end suffering. First someONE would have to execute all of the people who cause suffering. So we would watch as the greedy capitalists like the Enron folks and the dictators like Kim Jong-il are lined up and put somewhere like... maybe, the Lake of Fire? Then, the systems that abuse the many to benefit the few would be dismantled. Kind of like what is described in the Book of Revelation. And new government would be put in place in which all are treated well and nobody suffers. Kind of like the New Jerusalem. Hmm... From dfm2a3l0t2 at spymac.com Sun Apr 2 16:35:38 2006 From: dfm2a3l0t2 at spymac.com (D.F. Manno) Date: Sun Apr 2 15:40:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: In article , Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "indigo" wrote in > > > "We pray for complete healing, and sometimes that takes different > > forms. It could be spiritual healing, or sometimes an attitude, an > > acceptance, a preparedness, maybe not being physically healed." > > LOL, sounds like she's talking a load of codswallop to me I wouldn't be too hard on the nun. Doctors are capable of the same kind of thinking. When that study came out that found little or no health benefit from a low-fat diet, there were quotes in the news reports from doctors saying that people should still follow low-fat diets. For some people, it's "Evidence be damned, if I believe it works, it works." -- D.F. Manno dfm2a3l0t2@spymac.com In the republic of mediocrity genius is dangerous. (Robert G. Ingersoll) From pete+usenet at heypete.com Sun Apr 2 16:59:59 2006 From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson) Date: Sun Apr 2 19:00:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article , "indigo" wrote: > Sounds more like you want to kill off the tourism industry than > prevent illegal immigration. In my travels around the world, I've found that quite a few nations charge various entry/exit fees for tourists. Even when they're expensive (I think Kenya or some other African nation charged a few hundred bucks for American tourists...much less for those from other countries), it's still not all that bad. It certainly would cut back on those abusing the tourist visas, methinks... -- Pete Stephenson HeyPete.com From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 3 02:04:43 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Sun Apr 2 20:10:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns9799A255BFD7TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > So, yeah, Gary Taubes might be right, but, as he says himself, if you just > eat less you'll lose weight. But no one has a diet that just says, "Eat > less stuff." Yabbut.... You need to excercise too..... Don't forget the EXCERCISE!! From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 3 02:47:04 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Sun Apr 2 20:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns9799D0C4B5A02TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Porpoise" ! >> "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message >> news:Xns9799A255BFD7TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... >>> >>> if you just eat less you'll lose weight > >> Yabbut.... You need to excercise too..... Don't forget the EXCERCISE!! > > Sorry! Really! If you just eat less you'll lose weight. I'm not saying > that you'll lose thousands of pounds, or anything, but lose you will. Yes, but it won't make you fit and healthy. Just losing weight isn't going to solve anything. You need to turn the fat tissue into muscle tissue - and that's heavier than fat tissue...... From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 12:02:40 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 06:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Bush Preps for Third Term In-Reply-To: References: <3pDXf.3111$IG.2267@dukeread01> Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > David Dean wrote in > news:ozchzhq02-128FCC.19364601042006@frylock.local: > >> In article , >> "Frog Prince" wrote: >> >>> The US Department of Justice and the office of the White House >>> Counsel are preparing a draft document laying out the President's >>> wartime authority to remain in office past 2008. >> Happy Apple's birthday to you too. 8-) >> > > They do love their april fool's jokes in the UK. All the national > newspapers get into it, as does the national news if it's a slow news day. Did you see the Google April Fools effort (Google Romance). Not one of their best, but they do one every year. From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Mon Apr 3 11:28:47 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Mon Apr 3 06:30:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: Chris F. Willoughby on 31/03/2006 wrote: >I tried replying to your post but got 441 line too long. A known OE bug. Try out XanaNews, it's free, versatile and you don't get that error. http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/xananews.htm -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:23:48 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 08:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: the bigotry behind this is amazing References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | not to mention plain ignorance - I guess if you're a black gay atheist | you must be the lowest possible form of humanity according to these | supposedly kind, tolerant, forgiving 'religious' types. I'm glad I | stumbled on this guy, his columns look like good reading. | | April 2, 2006 -- Given the increasing religiosity of American culture, | it's perhaps not too surprising that a new study out this month finds | that Americans are not fond of atheists and trust them less than they do | other groups. The depth of this distrust is a bit astonishing | nonetheless. | | More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers | from the University of Minnesota. | | Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an | atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same | question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to | 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for | Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 | percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively. | | When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, | 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same | question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a | slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. | For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell | further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, | respectively. I don't see these data as a distrust but a reflection of what the people interviewed consider important in their lives and world view. Marrying within ones faith is a basic concept that seems to apply to most of the world's religions. Likewise a question on an individual's 'vision' of what his society should be would reflect his world view not necessarily a real or even an obtainable society. Perhaps a better question: Would you disapprove of a child's wish to marry outside of the child's faith? Likely the data would be much the same. Or outside your faith? Likely a higher percentage but only marginally so as many parents might consider their faith the faith of their children. And who is to say they are wrong. To my mind the survey is, intentionally or not, designed to elicit specific results or at best erronious results. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:55:39 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "indigo" wrote in > news:e0k5pv$idq$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > > > Yeah, it's so bad we were even on that "Dirty Jobs" Discovery show! > > "we"... what, you've done the job yourself? Have I picked crabs? Yeah. For someone else? Not on your life! ;-) > > I have tried various shellfish and didn't like any of it (lobster, > crab, prawns/shrimp) and calamari (yes, i know it's not a > shellfish)... what the hell is up with people who LIKE that rubbery > ick? Good calimari ain't rubbery. From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:36:07 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | > Lord knows someone would misinterpret what I said. I don't mean | > programs for African-Americans. I mean the OTHER kind of black | > projects. | | Well do explain what you're referring to then. Many (some, most?) of the rest of us understood what he was referring to ... From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:37:48 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:e0qtcv$cg3$1@news.spamcop.net... | Chris F. Willoughby on 31/03/2006 wrote: | | >I tried replying to your post but got 441 line too long. | | A known OE bug. Try out XanaNews, it's free, versatile and you don't get | that error. http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/xananews.htm | | -- | Rob | | http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ Is there a good program that does both NG and email, is compatible to multiple platforms (at least Mac and PC) and the key free or cheap? From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:46:48 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | > The job does not have to be so bloody awful the working conditions are | > what the grower can impose. Coke had migrant workers in it's Florida | > orange groves. Put them on as perm employees with good wages and | > working conditions and found out they could do the job better and | > cheaper. | | Sorry but it's backbreaking work and often in intense heat or other nasty | conditions. Ain't no way you can make that pleasant. Most real physical labor is just that but it is quite easy to make any working environment miserable. Try working in an office set for 62- degrees in winter and 85+ degrees in summer. BTW good working conditions does not automatically equate to comfortable. Most often it means safe working conditions with the proper tools and equipment to do the job correctly (recall pharaoh had the Israelites collect their own straw), reasonable rest breaks, clean (cool/cold) water, rest rooms (not the other side of a bush) shade, etc. From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:47:54 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | > | > Ever wonder why the airport exit fees are just that exit fees and not | > entrance fees? | > | > | > | | They're only a few bucks, generally speaking. Correct but still applied as exit fees and less likly to be noticed when it would count most. From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:58:08 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | > As he was a new business, it was his first time in 'our' | > neighborhood. He had done most of his work over in Dallas and this | > was the first time he had ventured so far from home. | > He pretty much ended up doing every house in the street (since they | > were all new builds). | > | > I think it was more of the general attitude he got from most of his | > clients. | > | | then I guess it's the typical Dallas folk who should be ashamed of | themselves What would HR think if he took the kid to a job interview? Or to his work in a typical corporate office. The home owner has no idea what the kid is like, how he will behave and likely does not want the responsibility to baby sit or entertain the child. My wife works at home. Likewise many of our friends. When my wife is working she prefers to be uninterrupted which includes our grand kids. When our friends are working they prefer to be uninterrupted by any kids who are most welcome at other times. BTW we have grand kids who are multi-racial -- remember my kids are licensed foster to adopt and have to deal with all that entails on a daily basis so the race card is a joker and does not play. To act otherwise on his part is a mistake that can cost him business. To assume it is because the kid is black in a bad move on our part. From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 09:59:21 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:15 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | > So let's consider a way to end suffering. | > | > First someONE would have to execute all of the people who cause | > suffering. So we would watch as the greedy capitalists like the Enron | > folks and the dictators like Kim Jong-il are lined up and put | > somewhere like... maybe, the Lake of Fire? | | No. If this being had the power that he/she/it supposedly has, a mere act | of will would make all the evil people and things in the world become good | and kind. No killing would be necessary. And you presume to know the mind set/thinking of God? From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 10:00:53 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:17 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | > Although Slyvesterthekat thinks it is hogwash, so much is unknown | > about prayer and how it works that sometimes it is best not to be too | > specific. Remember the Mark Twain story (and there is a modern one | > making the rounds also about how healing is not necessarily the best | > thing). | | I think the prayer side of it is hogwash, not the effects of healing that | are truly evident and which I believe stem from the mindset of the person | in question, not any external chanting to the gods. Nice effective example of faith. Recall that faith, by definition, needs no rational. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 10:02:23 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:18 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "indigo" wrote in > news:e0k4mn$ho2$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > > "We pray for complete healing, and sometimes that takes different > > forms. It could be spiritual healing, or sometimes an attitude, an > > acceptance, a preparedness, maybe not being physically healed." > > > > LOL, sounds like she's talking a load of codswallop to me Codswallop? Eh wot? Anyway, that's what I meant when I said she sounded like a "pyschic". Give generic answers that everyone can fill in the blanks in their own head. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 10:03:29 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:05:18 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: dwåcôn wrote: > > After all, "the power of plumbing" depends on the skill of the > plumbers. Your house will be flooded if the plumbers are Moe, Larry > and Shemp. I always wanted a kitchen clock that spewed water out of it ;-) > > Just a thought... > > Prayers have resulted in verifiable healing... so I wouldn't throw > the baby out with the bathwater. Erm....didn't that study just DISprove that? From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 10:09:46 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 09:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: was blah blah References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > bloody top posting... ignore my previous comment, I didn't notice the > top post which said you can't see the great wall from space Don't worry, I did ;-) From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 3 16:17:09 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Mon Apr 3 10:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0r60c$hnp$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Good calimari ain't rubbery. > Yes it is, rubbery and dericious.... ;-) And it's pla meuk.... (»ÅÒËÁÖ¡)[Thai]. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 3 16:19:04 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Mon Apr 3 10:25:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-87A0DA.09512403042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Porpoise" wrote: > >> Yes, but it won't make you fit and healthy. Just losing weight isn't >> going >> to solve anything. You need to turn the fat tissue into muscle tissue - >> and >> that's heavier than fat tissue...... > > Muscle tissue also requires more energy to maintain, so once you have > the muscles, you burn more calories just by having them. > Indeed - Even skinny athletes eat tons of food. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 12:01:29 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 11:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > Indeed - Even skinny athletes eat tons of food. Some hyper athletes like those guys that do the Ironman swim/bike/run marathons consume over 5,000 calories per day! (IIRC "normal" intake for us mere mortals is around 1,500 calories). From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 11:37:06 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 11:05:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: "David Dean" | > Is there a good program that does both NG and email, is compatible to | > multiple platforms (at least Mac and PC) and the key free or cheap? | | Thunderbird. Any wine before it's time. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 17:45:08 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 11:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Sylvesterthekat" | > > | > As he was a new business, it was his first time in 'our' > | > neighborhood. He had done most of his work over in Dallas and this > | > was the first time he had ventured so far from home. > | > He pretty much ended up doing every house in the street (since they > | > were all new builds). > | > > | > I think it was more of the general attitude he got from most of his > | > clients. > | > > | > | then I guess it's the typical Dallas folk who should be ashamed of > | themselves > > What would HR think if he took the kid to a job interview? Or to his work > in a typical corporate office. The home owner has no idea what the kid is > like, how he will behave and likely does not want the responsibility to baby > sit or entertain the child. > > My wife works at home. Likewise many of our friends. When my wife is > working she prefers to be uninterrupted which includes our grand kids. When > our friends are working they prefer to be uninterrupted by any kids who are > most welcome at other times. BTW we have grand kids who are multi-racial -- > remember my kids are licensed foster to adopt and have to deal with all that > entails on a daily basis so the race card is a joker and does not play. > > To act otherwise on his part is a mistake that can cost him business. To > assume it is because the kid is black in a bad move on our part. > > As I pointed out, this was a one off due to unforeseen circumstances and it was only a 10min job he was going to do. Because I didn't mind he ended up staying for quite a while longer (beers and BBQ as it happened). But I agree with what you say. (Just not relevant in this case). As an ex-Dallas Cowboy player he was not from the lower class of the community either, but what amazed me was the level of bigotry that he was exposed to and expected. (And it is in no way a US problem, it happens in the UK and even more so in mainland Europe in most places). From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 17:49:44 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 11:50:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Sylvesterthekat" > > | > So let's consider a way to end suffering. > | > > | > First someONE would have to execute all of the people who cause > | > suffering. So we would watch as the greedy capitalists like the Enron > | > folks and the dictators like Kim Jong-il are lined up and put > | > somewhere like... maybe, the Lake of Fire? > | > | No. If this being had the power that he/she/it supposedly has, a mere act > | of will would make all the evil people and things in the world become good > | and kind. No killing would be necessary. > > And you presume to know the mind set/thinking of God? > > 1. Which God? 2. You are assuming there is a God! 3. It was someones views, they don't claim to know anything. Religion and Politics eh? The common cause of wars in 99% of most online newsgroups. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 17:51:48 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 11:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > "Canopus" wrote in message > news:e0qtcv$cg3$1@news.spamcop.net... > | Chris F. Willoughby on 31/03/2006 wrote: > | > | >I tried replying to your post but got 441 line too long. > | > | A known OE bug. Try out XanaNews, it's free, versatile and you don't get > | that error. http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/xananews.htm > | > | -- > | Rob > | > | http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ > > Is there a good program that does both NG and email, is compatible to > multiple platforms (at least Mac and PC) and the key free or cheap? > > Have you tried Thunderbird? (http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird). Good for email/NG/RSS etc? Has a few nuances but none more than others... From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 12:58:04 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 12:00:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote: > > Religion and Politics eh? The common cause of wars in 99% of most > online newsgroups. I thought top posting was.... From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 18:09:50 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 12:10:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's number 3 on most other lists indigo wrote: > Chris Wright wrote: >> Religion and Politics eh? The common cause of wars in 99% of most >> online newsgroups. > > I thought top posting was.... > > From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 3 19:12:35 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0rdca$mra$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Porpoise wrote: >> >> Indeed - Even skinny athletes eat tons of food. > > Some hyper athletes like those guys that do the Ironman swim/bike/run > marathons consume over 5,000 calories per day! (IIRC "normal" intake for > us > mere mortals is around 1,500 calories). > > Basically, the equation we're looking for is: Intake = Output From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 14:10:07 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:20:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0r6d0$i9u$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Anyway, that's what I meant when I said she sounded like a "pyschic". Give > generic answers that everyone can fill in the blanks in their own head. > Speaking of healing, how did the doctor's appt go? Get those test results? From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 14:29:58 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] never again References: Message-ID: THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. That won't ever happen again. You may now return to your (normal ?) .socal life At least until April 5, 2106. ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 14:39:12 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e0r6d0$i9u$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > Anyway, that's what I meant when I said she sounded like a > > "pyschic". Give generic answers that everyone can fill in the > > blanks in their own head. > > > Speaking of healing, how did the doctor's appt go? Get those test > results? No, the damn secretary didn't fax them to my doc and I'm too damn busy right now to deal with it. I see him this Thursday anyway, I'll get them then. Getting (hopefully) both knees drained tomorrow morning at the ortho guy, will have the fluid checked for infection. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 14:40:22 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 13:45:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... > > On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 > in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. > To us non-GMT'ers it will happen TWICE that day ;-) From bar_n0ne at hotmail.com Mon Apr 3 14:23:28 2006 From: bar_n0ne at hotmail.com (Berny) Date: Mon Apr 3 14:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e0rm45$sat$1@news.spamcop.net... > THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... > > On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 > in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. > > That won't ever happen again. > > You may now return to your (normal ?) .socal life > > At least until April 5, 2106. ;-) Sorry, wrong, In Canada and Europe (actually all the world except the USA) it will happen (but not again) on May 4. Unless you work in SI dates where it happened back in 2004., on the 6th of May. Berny From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 20:30:09 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 14:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... > > On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 > in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. > > That won't ever happen again. > > You may now return to your (normal ?) .socal life > > At least until April 5, 2106. ;-) > > > > You mean in our lifetime... (2106 2206 etc and 1906) From blacklist-me at davjam.org Mon Apr 3 20:16:37 2006 From: blacklist-me at davjam.org (David Bolt) Date: Mon Apr 3 14:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Frog Prince wrote:- >THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... > >On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 >in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. > >That won't ever happen again. > >You may now return to your (normal ?) .socal life > >At least until April 5, 2106. ;-) Unless, of course, you're in a region where dates are represented as DD/MM/YY. For those, the 4th of May is still a month away :) Regards, David Bolt -- Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 50 Mnodes/s: http://www.distributed.net/ AMD1800 1Gb WinXP/SUSE 9.3 | AMD2400 256Mb SuSE 9.0 | A3010 4Mb RISCOS 3.11 AMD2400(32) 768Mb SUSE 10.0 | Falcon 14Mb TOS 4.02 | A4000 4Mb RISCOS 3.11 AMD2600(64) 512Mb SUSE 10.0 | | RPC600 129Mb RISCOS 3.6 From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Mon Apr 3 20:54:11 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Mon Apr 3 15:55:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: David Dean on 03/04/2006 wrote: >In article , > "Frog Prince" wrote: > >>Is there a good program that does both NG and email, is compatible to >>multiple platforms (at least Mac and PC) and the key free or cheap? > > Thunderbird. But can it make me a cup of tea at the same time? -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 21:58:51 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 16:00:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > David Dean on 03/04/2006 wrote: > >> In article , >> "Frog Prince" wrote: >> >>> Is there a good program that does both NG and email, is compatible to >>> multiple platforms (at least Mac and PC) and the key free or cheap? >> >> Thunderbird. > > But can it make me a cup of tea at the same time? > If you have one of them bluetooth kettles it can. Does better with Java though compared to tea. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 17:39:18 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Mon Apr 3 16:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0rmk1$sfs$1@news.spamcop.net... > > No, the damn secretary didn't fax them to my doc and I'm too damn busy right > now to deal with it. See...that's why you need to get copies of your own from the get go, I don't think I've ever had anything faxed where it should have gone when I needed it, and when you want to talk to the doctor about something and they don't have anything in their hands, it's a big waste of time, and annoying....... I see him this Thursday anyway, I'll get them then. > Getting (hopefully) both knees drained tomorrow morning at the ortho guy, > will have the fluid checked for infection. I'll bet they don't find anything, has it gotten worse? From bert at iphouse.com Mon Apr 3 22:05:40 2006 From: bert at iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) Date: Mon Apr 3 17:10:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: I can't believe the hoopla References: Message-ID: In news:Xns9799ED57DBFFCspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61 Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Bert Hyman wrote in > news:Xns979892570935BVeebleFetzer@ 216.154.195.61: > > >> The US government and China both seem to think so. China also claims >> sovereignty over the Spratly Islands. >> > > Where?! Never heard of them. > > Good grief, having looked them up, it's a mystery to me how China can > possibly lay claim to them when they're not exactly close to China! The > reason is obvious however - there's supposedly oil in abundance. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Spratly_%26_Paracel_Islands.gif Oh yeah; they also occupy parts of the Paracel Islands. -- Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com From six.million at dollar.man Mon Apr 3 18:33:43 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Mon Apr 3 17:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns9799EBA58C725spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "dwåcôn" wrote in > news:e0oui6$7im$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> So let's consider a way to end suffering. >> >> First someONE would have to execute all of the people who cause >> suffering. So we would watch as the greedy capitalists like the Enron >> folks and the dictators like Kim Jong-il are lined up and put >> somewhere like... maybe, the Lake of Fire? > > No. If this being had the power that he/she/it supposedly has, a mere act > of will would make all the evil people and things in the world become good > and kind. No killing would be necessary. That negates free will... and is reminiscent of the Nurse Ratchett lobotomies from the "Cukoo's Nest." So, give them a lobotomy of sort and remove their ability to make their own decisions (good or evil). And without free will, people are no longer sentient children of God but, rather, automatons... Giving man free will was a risky move... but I wouldn't have it any other way. Would you? -- Practice safe eating. Always use condiments. http://dwacon.blogspot.com From six.million at dollar.man Mon Apr 3 18:35:08 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Mon Apr 3 17:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0r6f1$iap$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > dwåcôn wrote: >> >> After all, "the power of plumbing" depends on the skill of the >> plumbers. Your house will be flooded if the plumbers are Moe, Larry >> and Shemp. > > > I always wanted a kitchen clock that spewed water out of it ;-) > >> >> Just a thought... >> >> Prayers have resulted in verifiable healing... so I wouldn't throw >> the baby out with the bathwater. > > Erm....didn't that study just DISprove that? > > In the words of Dudley Dickerson, "Dis house is sho gone craaazy." From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 18:45:46 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 17:50:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click > here > > http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg > > It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a > suitable > wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. Any idea what happens if you put it in the microwave? No chip for me TYVM. From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 18:48:08 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Mon Apr 3 17:50:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > > I see him this Thursday anyway, I'll get them then. > > Getting (hopefully) both knees drained tomorrow morning at the > > ortho guy, will have the fluid checked for infection. > > I'll bet they don't find anything, has it gotten worse? Yeah, it got so bad I had to go back on Vicodin, stuff I didn't want to take because of my intestinal issues. And even this ain't strong enough, they're only those 5/500 baby Vic's. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 3 23:57:50 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:00:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click > here > > http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg > > It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a > suitable > wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. I wonder how long these will last in a back pocket...?? From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 18:57:13 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:00:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click > here > > http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg > > It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a > suitable > wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. They're ESD sensitive? Hmmmm. http://preview.pffc-online.com/mag/mastering_rfid_1005/ Can't imagine they could say much if the device "fails". From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 18:58:20 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:00:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e0s5p4$6gi$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... >> Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click >> here >> >> http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg >> >> It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a >> suitable >> wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. > > I wonder how long these will last in a back pocket...?? Or under a hammer? :o) From bert at iphouse.com Mon Apr 3 23:00:11 2006 From: bert at iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: In news:e0s5pa$6gj$1@news.spamcop.net "Eponym" wrote: > Can't imagine they could say much if the device "fails". They could say "Please wait over there 'til we get someone who can sort this out." How much are you willing to be inconvenienced to avoid easily giving them the information they're going to get, one way or another? -- Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 00:00:55 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:05:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A97E335C26spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "Porpoise" wrote in news:e0ratl$lcb$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > > >> Yes it is, rubbery and dericious.... ;-) And it's pla meuk.... >> (»ÅÒËÁÖ¡)[Thai]. >> >> > > why is rubbery good? or are you taking the pee pee out of furriners' > accents? Yussa! From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 00:01:51 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:05:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Eponym" wrote in message news:e0s5rc$6hc$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Porpoise" wrote in message > news:e0s5p4$6gi$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> >> I wonder how long these will last in a back pocket...?? > > Or under a hammer? :o) Do you usually cary a hammer in your back pocket?? ;-) From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 18:38:13 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" | > THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... | > | > On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 | > in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. | > | > That won't ever happen again. | > | > You may now return to your (normal ?) .socal life | > | > At least until April 5, 2106. ;-) | > | > | > | > | You mean in our lifetime... (2106 2206 etc and 1906) As for myself I plan to live forever ... or die in the attempt. From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 18:46:45 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:10:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: the bigotry behind this is amazing References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | > I don't see these data as a distrust but a reflection of what the | > people interviewed consider important in their lives and world view. | > Marrying within ones faith is a basic concept that seems to apply to | > most of the world's religions. | | Among the religious in the world. Those of us who are not religious perhaps | don't have such prejudices and concerns. There are other concerns that are not related to religion. Marry someone from out of state/country, of another race, of another political view. I've seen a few that would not consider people who drive one brand of car. | | > Perhaps a better question: Would you disapprove of a child's wish to | > marry outside of the child's faith? Likely the data would be much | > the same. Or outside your faith? Likely a higher percentage but only | > marginally so as many parents might consider their faith the faith of | > their children. And who is to say they are wrong. | | It's very rare indeed that a child's faith differs from that of its | parents. Who else would indoctrinate them? From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 19:27:13 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Bert Hyman" wrote in message news:Xns979AACF7FC819VeebleFetzer@216.154.195.61... > In news:e0s5pa$6gj$1@news.spamcop.net "Eponym" > wrote: > >> Can't imagine they could say much if the device "fails". > > They could say "Please wait over there 'til we get someone who can sort > this out." > > How much are you willing to be inconvenienced to avoid easily giving > them the information they're going to get, one way or another? > The issue isn't whether they (meaning gov't) gets the info. The issue is everyone else getting the info. The idiotic things have a range of 20' or more. How long do you think it will take for criminals to make a small device that looks for unshielded passports to allow them to target victims? Run up and down a hotel corridor and pick out all the Americans? Sit in the lobby of the hotel? Hell, it doesn't even matter if they know exactly who you are...just the fact that the thing transmit something is enough on its own! But the data isn't encrypted anyway, so, they'll be able to find out pretty quick anyway. RFID in a passport is a colossally stupid idea. From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 19:21:23 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:30:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | > And you presume to know the mind set/thinking of God? | | | I think I know what is said about the Christian god by worshippers of that | god. Since I do not believe that there is any such being, there is no mind | set for me to know. Considering that GWB and company purport to worship the Christian god and speak for him as well how can you trust what anyone says about what's on the Christian god's mind? From devnull at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 19:27:07 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:30:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | > Most real physical labor is just that but it is quite easy to make any | > working environment miserable. Try working in an office set for 62- | > degrees in winter and 85+ degrees in summer. | > | > BTW good working conditions does not automatically equate to | > comfortable. Most often it means safe working conditions with the | > proper tools and equipment to do the job correctly (recall pharaoh had | > the Israelites collect their own straw), reasonable rest breaks, clean | > (cool/cold) water, rest rooms (not the other side of a bush) shade, | > etc. | | The point is, that in order to get your average American to do the job, | you'd have to pay them a lot more than is being offered to these migrant | workers BECAUSE it is unpleasant work. That would not hold true for office | work. It's like trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. No amount of | dressing it up is going to make it attractive except for cold hard cash. I know folk who have (and still do) some of the most obnoxious jobs there are but are faced with the prospect, due to competition with illegals that the job does not produce anywhere near a living wage. Can a person stay alive on the wages, yes IF a person is willing to live under a bridge or cohabit with thirty others in the same shack. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 19:43:32 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 18:45:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A990F69CADspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "Eponym" wrote in > news:e0s53r$5ve$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> Any idea what happens if you put it in the microwave? No chip for me >> TYVM. > > I believe it's supposed to destroy it but I don't want to risk it really. > It may cause me more problems if it's not working than if it is. Depends on what you call problems. Is some criminal or terrorist identifying you based on your passport data a problem? Or are you more worried that some ICE inspector will be inconvienenced having to hand key the data from your passport. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05551.pdf A barcode would have been just as effective, more secure, and less costly in this application. From bert at iphouse.com Tue Apr 4 00:42:12 2006 From: bert at iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) Date: Mon Apr 3 19:45:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: In news:Xns979A99DEB94F2spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61 Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Bert Hyman wrote in > news:Xns979AACF7FC819VeebleFetzer@ 216.154.195.61: > > >> They could say "Please wait over there 'til we get someone who can sort >> this out." >> >> How much are you willing to be inconvenienced to avoid easily giving >> them the information they're going to get, one way or another? >> > > Precisely. so I'll get myself a wire loom faraday wallet thingy to > hopefully stop it transmitting its data all over the place Ah.. Interesting point. The things are passive and only respond when "powered up" by a reader. The devices used in commercial applications are advertised as having ranges on the order of inches; anybody know for real how far away the ones being used in passports can be read? -- Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com From bert at iphouse.com Tue Apr 4 01:04:36 2006 From: bert at iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) Date: Mon Apr 3 20:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: In news:e0s5pa$6gj$1@news.spamcop.net "Eponym" wrote: > Can't imagine they could say much if the device "fails". I found this that might be interesting: DEPARTMENT OF STATE 22 CFR Part 51 [Public Notice 4993] RIN 1400–AB93 Electronic Passport AGENCY: Department of State. ACTION: Proposed rule. SUMMARY: This proposed rule would amend the passport regulations to incorporate changes required by the electronic passport. The rule would define ‘‘electronic passport,’’ would include a damaged electronic chip as an additional basis for possible invalidation of a passport, -- Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com From nobody at spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 21:33:17 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Mon Apr 3 20:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0k5pv$idq$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Yeah, it's so bad we were even on that "Dirty Jobs" Discovery show! > I heart Mike Rowe....yum.... From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 22:19:26 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 21:25:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Bert Hyman" wrote in message news:Xns979AC2212F2AVeebleFetzer@216.154.195.61... > In news:e0s5pa$6gj$1@news.spamcop.net "Eponym" > > wrote: > >> Can't imagine they could say much if the device "fails". > > I found this that might be interesting: > > DEPARTMENT OF STATE > 22 CFR Part 51 > [Public Notice 4993] > RIN 1400–AB93 > Electronic Passport > AGENCY: Department of State. > ACTION: Proposed rule. > > SUMMARY: This proposed rule would > amend the passport regulations to > incorporate changes required by the > electronic passport. The rule would > define ‘‘electronic passport,’’ would > include a damaged electronic chip as an > additional basis for possible > invalidation of a passport, > The final rule is here. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/05-21284.htm I'm still skeptical of some the claims made in respect to the distance from which these things can be read. Industry specs for passive RFID devices suggests anywhere up to 20' and farther under optimum conditions. From the pic in Kat's post, that sure is a big honking antenna for something that they claim won't be readable from a distance greater than 10cm. They did implemented a form of encryption that requires the scanner to punch a PIN from the passport. At least they improved that much...the original spec was totally unencrypted and no shielding whatsoever! I'd be willing to risk zapping it though just on the basis they are still likely to be misused, i.e., hotels, stores, and whatever might start scanning them and collecting info for their databases. I've frequently been asked for my passport at hotels when overseas. I don't want to make it too easy for somebody to load their database with info that they have no business having in the first place. I've heard talk new driver's licenses will have similar nonsense. :o/ From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Mon Apr 3 22:26:56 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Mon Apr 3 21:30:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click > here > > http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg > > It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a > suitable > wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. >From reading the rule on implementation, it looks like you're one of the guinea pigs (figure of speech!!)...they aren't supposed to roll them out for "real" until later this year. As an early adopter, I hope you really work the thing over to the point they scrap the idea altogether! From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 04:17:33 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Mon Apr 3 22:20:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Bush Preps for Third Term In-Reply-To: References: <3pDXf.3111$IG.2267@dukeread01> Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Chris Wright wrote in > news:e0qrrd$bcr$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> Did you see the Google April Fools effort (Google Romance). >> >> Not one of their best, but they do one every year. >> > > No, I missed that one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_1%2C_2006_%28Complete_List%29 or http://tinyurl.com/q5hgk From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 09:21:11 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 03:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979AD4EF4291FTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Porpoise" ! > >> Basically, the equation we're looking for is: >> >> Intake = Output > > Um. No. Not to lose. Which brings us back to my point, no? Yabbut, nobbut, yabbut, I was talking about the equilibrium state.......... 8>) From skiwi at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 01:47:53 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Tue Apr 4 03:50:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eponym wrote: > "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... >> Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click >> here >> >> http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg >> >> It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a >> suitable >> wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. > > From reading the rule on implementation, it looks like you're one of the > guinea pigs (figure of speech!!)...they aren't supposed to roll them out for > "real" until later this year. As an early adopter, I hope you really work > the thing over to the point they scrap the idea altogether! And don't travel to countries with RFID-savvy 'insurgents' that maybe want target (in the worse sense of the word) Americans passport carriers.... if Iraqi 'insurgents' can routinely build bombs that can be triggered by cell phones, this is not a stretch of the imagination IMHO... Fortunately I got in under the wire (if you will excuse the egregious pun!) with my US passport being issued on February 2nd 2006 *without* one - so I have until 2016 to think about what I would do - and my Kiwi passport to travel on if I get an updated US one before then... From skiwi at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 01:50:56 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Tue Apr 4 03:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > news:Xns979A9532140BFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... >> Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. If you wanna see, click >> here >> >> http://www.kookybycaron.com/share/passportrfid.jpg >> >> It's not quite what I expected (all the wire). Now I need to get a >> suitable >> wallet for it and they seem to be sold out. > > I wonder how long these will last in a back pocket...?? Or those big chrome stamps slammed down on pages above this one, as used by burly & bored immigration staff in non-computerized airports.. From skiwi at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 01:55:02 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Tue Apr 4 04:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Bolt wrote: > On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Frog Prince wrote:- > >> THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...ENJOY.... >> >> On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 >> in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. [snip] > Unless, of course, you're in a region where dates are represented as > DD/MM/YY. For those, the 4th of May is still a month away :) Or you work on the Ethiopian calender, in which case it is YEARS off... :-) NEVER is such an 'interesting' word :-P From skiwi at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 02:12:01 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Tue Apr 4 04:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Bush Preps for Third Term In-Reply-To: References: <3pDXf.3111$IG.2267@dukeread01> Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote: > Sylvesterthekat wrote: >> David Dean wrote in >> news:ozchzhq02-128FCC.19364601042006@frylock.local: >>> In article , >>> "Frog Prince" wrote: >>> >>>> The US Department of Justice and the office of the White House >>>> Counsel are preparing a draft document laying out the President's >>>> wartime authority to remain in office past 2008. >>> Happy Apple's birthday to you too. 8-) >>> >> >> They do love their april fool's jokes in the UK. All the national >> newspapers get into it, as does the national news if it's a slow news >> day. > > Did you see the Google April Fools effort (Google Romance). > > Not one of their best, but they do one every year. Think Geek's 'wireless extension cord' was pretty good, as was /. targeting the "My Little Pony" demographic in their revamped design... From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 10:59:44 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 05:00:37 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Anonymizer for China....... great!?! Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/03/anonymizer_china/ Great! Now we won't even have the IP to add to the scbl......... From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Tue Apr 4 12:26:06 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Tue Apr 4 07:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Eponym on 03/04/2006 wrote: >A barcode would have been just as effective, more secure, and less costly >in this application. If the technology is there and people are forced to use it and some company can make a hansom profit from producing it then it will be used. Given a few decades we will be compelled to have chips implanted if we want to travel anywhere or be able to make transactions. The Beast has risen. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Tue Apr 4 12:34:32 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Tue Apr 4 07:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Porpoise on 03/04/2006 wrote: >I wonder how long these will last in a back pocket...?? In a very hot, humid country :) -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Tue Apr 4 12:39:36 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Tue Apr 4 07:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Eponym on 04/04/2006 wrote: >From reading the rule on implementation, it looks like you're one of the >guinea pigs (figure of speech!!)...they aren't supposed to roll them out >for "real" until later this year. As an early adopter, I hope you really >work the thing over to the point they scrap the idea altogether! Imagine if everyone started zapping them...the chaos...travel insurance claims due to missed flights...hoards of people screaming "It doesn't work, I want to get home". ;) -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Tue Apr 4 12:41:54 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Tue Apr 4 07:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: David Dean on 03/04/2006 wrote: >In article , > "Canopus" wrote: > >>But can it make me a cup of tea at the same time? > > If I had software that made me a cup of tea... I might travel around >the galaxy in a bathrobe. Hmm...I'll just check out my Hitch-Hiker's Guide on that one. Dam, the batteries are dead, typical! -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Tue Apr 4 14:03:10 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Tue Apr 4 09:05:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: David Dean on 04/04/2006 wrote: >>Hmm...I'll just check out my Hitch-Hiker's Guide on that one. Dam, the >>batteries are dead, typical! > > This reminds me, I'm very exited to have recently been able to get >the VA license plate which reads "ZAPHOD" The previous owner must have >left the state. Or this Galaxy :) -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 18:10:04 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Tue Apr 4 12:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > David Dean on 04/04/2006 wrote: > >>> Hmm...I'll just check out my Hitch-Hiker's Guide on that one. Dam, the >>> batteries are dead, typical! >> >> This reminds me, I'm very exited to have recently been able to get >> the VA license plate which reads "ZAPHOD" The previous owner must have >> left the state. > > Or this Galaxy :) > I'd be quite worried as to why he left? Do you think he 'knows' about some new super highway? From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 19:08:27 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:10:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-6790F5.08301604042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Porpoise" wrote: > >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/03/anonymizer_china/ >> >> Great! Now we won't even have the IP to add to the scbl......... > > Wrong group... 8P We don't talk about spiced ham in .social > Plopped ham with chalk?? From kenbrody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 13:57:52 2006 From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:15:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: was blah blah References: Message-ID: <4432A590.2E43E937@spamcop.net> indigo wrote: > > Chris F. Willoughby wrote: > > > > Yeah, but Hadrians wall was only 15ft tall and smaller in places. > > > > > > The Great Wall of China could be seen from space, whereas you > > > couldn't see Hadrians wall until you stood on top of the darn thing. > > > > > > It was more symbolic than practical. > > > Actually, you cannot see if from space. > > Yes, you can. I've seen the photos taken from the shuttle. It's the "it's the only manmade object you can see from space" that's wrong. (Consider that many highways are wider than the Great Wall. The fact that it's >1000 miles long is irrelevent here. If it were just as long, but only an inch wide, it wouldn't be visible from space.) -- +-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ | Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | | | kenbrody/at\spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | #include | +-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ Don't e-mail me at: From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 14:21:16 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B66B76734Fspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > Hmm... so maybe they don't actively broadcast but have to come into close > contact with a reader before they'll wake up. That would be more > comforting, if it's the case. There was one article on line that said they could be read up to 25 feet away, if someone had a reader. I wonder how hard they are to get. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 14:28:29 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979AD68575ADTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was Sylvesterthekat ! > > > Just got my new passport with its embedded chip. > > I don't like it one bit... Har har..... From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 14:33:18 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:35:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B66B76734Fspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > Bert Hyman wrote in > news:Xns979ABE5554FF7VeebleFetzer@216.154.195.61: > > >> Ah.. Interesting point. >> >> The things are passive and only respond when "powered up" by a reader. >> The devices used in commercial applications are advertised as having >> ranges on the order of inches; anybody know for real how far away the >> ones being used in passports can be read? >> > > Hmm... so maybe they don't actively broadcast but have to come into close > contact with a reader before they'll wake up. That would be more > comforting, if it's the case. They claim it can only be read from within 10cm. But they don't indicate whether that is with or without shielding and specs for commerically available passive devices like they're using can be read from 20ft or more. So, I'm skeptical of the gov't claim and hope an independent source publishes their findings on these chips. I'd like to know either way. If you hurry up to the counter from 20' feet and they already appear to know who you are before you pull the thing out, that could be very telling. However, given that most of the time the length of the queue puts you closer than 20', you'd be lucky to be in a position to know. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 14:40:24 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Tue Apr 4 13:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B67CE957A7spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "Eponym" wrote in > news:e0shkg$e1n$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> I'd be willing to risk zapping it though just on the basis they are >> still likely to be misused, i.e., hotels, stores, and whatever might >> start scanning them and collecting info for their databases. I've >> frequently been asked for my passport at hotels when overseas. I >> don't want to make it too easy for somebody to load their database >> with info that they have no business having in the first place. > > I wonder if they hold more info than is available on the data page of the > passport anyway? At least my SSN isn't in the data! > I'd balk at even allowing the info found on the data page to be scanned into a database. What business would a hotel have storing your age, place of birth, height, weight, eye color, photo, etc.? Place of birth is often used as an ID verification question, so, you'd be filling in a blank for someone interested in stealing your identity. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:20:19 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:25:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Charity begins at home. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > In article , > "Frog Prince" wrote: > >> The Image program is owned and peddled by Neil Bush. Yes, the same >> Neil Bush who was banned from stock trading because of his less than >> proper dealings. > > I found info that he was barred from banking, but not stock trading. > Do you have a reference? Neil Bush was known in the 80s as one of the big participants in the saving and loan scandals. He ran Silverado Savings which when it went under cost the tax payers billions of dollars, well I think the final estimates of all of them crossed over into a trillion dollars. Another lovely thing to thank the Bush dynasty and their friends for. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:20:37 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:25:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? In-Reply-To: References: <15721-44213CB4-1@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Heidi" wrote in > news:e03rj4$qle$1@news.spamcop.net: > >> Isn't that Kerry? Hmm...Maybe you're right....Tomatillos and tomatoes >> are not the same thing, and there's no reason to hate them! *sniff* >> They're lovely and tart, nice in salsa too.... > > Kerry has bananaphobia doesn't he? Mind you he's so fussy he probably also > hates tomatoes. I know they're not the same but they're not exactly a world > apart either. If it wasn't for tomatoes, I might starve. I'm not exactly sure if I've had tomatillos. I'm probably with Charles about green tomatoes. If they are green, then they are not ripe and you should let them ripen before you try to eat them. I suppose you should try and salvage them by frying them, but why don't you just wait until they ripen to eat them instead? I like raw tomatoes too. I'm sort of with George Costanza, wondering why they never really made it as a hand fruit. And bananas, we have been over this before. They are certainly gross and when I become the all powerful being in the universe, they will disappear, but I'm not afraid of them. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:22:38 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:25:18 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Rant o' the day Message-ID: Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? Discuss. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 20:26:03 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B671AFCAC6spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > David Dean wrote in news:ozchzhq02- > CC6F21.20460303042006@frylock.local: > >> I have no idea, how much did a veggie picker get paid in 1999? I >> didn't get much better than minimum wage, because I had no experience, >> and I only lasted one summer. I got my current job that fall. >> > > I don't think the veggie pickers get minimum wage. They're probably paid > by > the pound. We're paid by the pound too. ;-) Some people get paid by the dollar, or euro, or yen.......... From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:28:34 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:30:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > > They tend to do more begging though, if Santa Monica is anything to go by. > They mooch off of everyone and probably help themselves to this or that > then spend their days lying in the sun, listening to boom boxes and > occasionally causing a nuisance. I don't think the notion of work even > enters their heads. So, Santa Monica really is the home of the homeless then? From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 20:29:42 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B6E951DBEEspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "Porpoise" wrote in news:e0tcin$tso$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/03/anonymizer_china/ >> >> Great! Now we won't even have the IP to add to the scbl......... > > but the spam doesn't actually come from China, it just uses open chinese > proxies right? Well, if "anonymizer" is on the trojanized/proxified system (within China) that originates the spam......... > this anonymizer is for chinese people in china to get around > the censoring. of course if they decide to start spamming, it'll be a > problem.... but it may show anonymizer's IP so you could block that out From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:34:30 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:35:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > >> RFID in a passport is a colossally stupid idea. > > I really can't think of any reasons good enough that it should be there > myself. Is it just RFID? If it is just a unique ID which then additional data is retrieved from a central database by the reader, that's one thing and the same thing could be accomplished by a barcode. But does it store more data than just the ID on the passport itself? From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:39:03 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:40:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in > news:Xns979AD68575ADTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > >> I don't like it one bit... > > Me either. If anyone notices faraday cage wallets actually available > online, please let me know. I've not managed to find any yet, I think > they're all out of stock. http://www.difrwear.com/index.shtml From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 20:41:10 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e0udhe$jec$3@news.spamcop.net... > Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email you send > from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? Discuss. Very. By the time you get to them, you've already read the content of the email. It's as pointless as putting on the bottom of snailmail. On the other hand, if it was on the envelope, such that you would read it before opening the mail, then it would serve a purpose - i.e. if it wasn't for you, don't open it; if it's not for you and you open and read it, then there is a case for litigation/prosecution/whatever. (Just like if you open someone else's snailmail). However, if someone puts something in the wrong envelope (which is addressed to you), then that is their fault, not yours. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 20:48:38 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:50:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Chris Wright wrote: >> Religion and Politics eh? The common cause of wars in 99% of most >> online newsgroups. > > I thought top posting was.... Actually, you are both wrong. 73% of the wars are over statistics used to support arguments that were just pulled out of the secret file. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 20:48:46 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:50:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e0ue7n$k26$1@news.spamcop.net... > Sylvesterthekat wrote: >> >>> RFID in a passport is a colossally stupid idea. >> >> I really can't think of any reasons good enough that it should be there >> myself. > > Is it just RFID? If it is just a unique ID which then additional data is > retrieved from a central database by the reader, that's one thing and the > same thing could be accomplished by a barcode. But does it store more > data than just the ID on the passport itself? I'm thinking........ Staff considerations...... get the information from the travellers, using fewer immigration officers..... If the travellers get hearded through bottleneck passport check system (much like that used for forcing livestock through dips), then the data get be read off the passports automatically without every single one being physically handled by an officer. Any persona-non-grata would then be flagged for officers to deal with. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 4 20:51:16 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 14:55:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e0uf3d$kem$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message > news:e0ue7n$k26$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I'm thinking........ Staff considerations...... get the information from > the travellers, using fewer immigration officers..... If the travellers > get hearded Duh! Better correct myself before the *other* grammar police jump on me.... ;-) Of course, I meant "herded"...... Duh! > through bottleneck passport check system (much like that used for forcing > livestock through dips), then the data get be read off the passports > automatically without every single one being physically handled by an > officer. Any persona-non-grata would then be flagged for officers to deal > with. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 16:05:20 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:10:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e0ueg8$k4g$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Me either. If anyone notices faraday cage wallets actually available > > online, please let me know. I've not managed to find any yet, I think > > they're all out of stock. > > http://www.difrwear.com/index.shtml I like this part (news to me): 3. As a result of the REALID act, all US state drivers licenese are required to contain RFID tags by the year 2007. From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Apr 4 13:07:52 2006 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:10:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: > Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email you > send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? Discuss. Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers when I reply to them. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Tue Apr 4 21:19:22 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:20:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message > news:e0ueg8$k4g$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> Me either. If anyone notices faraday cage wallets actually available >>> online, please let me know. I've not managed to find any yet, I think >>> they're all out of stock. >> http://www.difrwear.com/index.shtml > > I like this part (news to me): > 3. As a result of the REALID act, all US state drivers licenese are required to > contain RFID tags by the year 2007. I'm ok on both my drivers license and passport until 2011 and 2012, so I'm set for a while. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 16:16:29 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:20:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message news:e0ug7j$l62$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > I like this part (news to me): > 3. As a result of the REALID act, all US state drivers licenese are required to > contain RFID tags by the year 2007. > Or not.... http://www.guardmycreditfile.org/index.php/content/view/584/76/ New Hampshire has apparently been looking at the law and decided enough is enough. State Representative Neal Kurk has introduced a bill that would make it illegal for the state to comply with Real ID. The state’s Transportation Committee tried to kill the bill, but Kurk objected and got the state House of Representatives to override the Transportation Committee by a vote of 217 to 84. The bill was then approved by a voice vote and sent to the State Senate. From bar_n0ne at hotmail.com Tue Apr 4 15:27:12 2006 From: bar_n0ne at hotmail.com (Berny) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:30:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e0udhe$jec$3@news.spamcop.net... > Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email you > send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? Discuss. Utterly Only by prior agreement can anyone send me confidential mail, Any other mail sent to me. especially by agents unknown, is my possession to do with as I please. Internal company mail is treated as confidential, this has been agreed to as a term of employment, so to recieve the disclaimer is a waste of my time and bandwidth. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 16:31:29 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e0ugru$lin$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I'm ok on both my drivers license and passport until 2011 and 2012, so > I'm set for a while. well, I don't have a passport and my license doesn't expire till 2010, so maybe by then they will have fought it off for good. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 16:44:52 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B67F0297B2spamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "Eponym" wrote in > news:e0si2h$eb1$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> From reading the rule on implementation, it looks like you're one of >> the guinea pigs (figure of speech!!)...they aren't supposed to roll >> them out for "real" until later this year. As an early adopter, I >> hope you really work the thing over to the point they scrap the idea >> altogether! >> >> >> > > This is a United Kingdom passport. I had no choice in the matter, all UK > passports now have this thing in them. In that case, I wonder if it has any shielding or encryption whatsoever. US e-passports are supposed to have shielding and encryption as a result of all the negative comments that came up from the proposal. Did the UK do any vetting of the proposal before implementation? From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 20:48:47 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:50:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in news:Xns9796B9F7C1C52TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > > You can't drink wine because your wife doesn't care for wine? Dude... > Does your wife have a DL? Can she drive? Can she drive if you're in > the car? Can she drive if you've been drinking? Can she drive if > you've been drinking beer? Can she drive if you've been drinking > wine? Or is it more a question of can she drive if she's been > drinking margaritas??? Not like I'm trying to pry into your personal > life, but, uh, just curious, eh? Answers to your questions... No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. :-) From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 20:52:12 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:55:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in news:e0lpcl$e72$1 @news.spamcop.net: > > I'm retired, time (on the clock) has little meaning in my life. (I'll be > late for my own funeral) > > > That doesn't mean you couldn't have your very own Pontiac Judge. :-) From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 20:53:45 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:55:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote in news:Xns97969B5C27EFEspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61: > > Evidently not or she wouldn't have married you! That is true. I'm just a cheap bastard to everyone else. :-) From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 20:55:27 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:00:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in news:e0hjtp$2ti$2 @news.spamcop.net: > > But but but ... what happened to the option of being a stand in for the > pony? > Would that be classed as being a stunt pony? > > Hmmm.. we could have either or.. woman in skimpy outfit jump on the trampoline to land on a stunt pony.. or woman in skimpy outfit jump on the tampoline with the stunt pony. :-) From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 21:00:09 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:05:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in news:e0udhe$jec$3 @news.spamcop.net: > Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email you > send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? Discuss. Remember those disclaimers spammers used to put on their spams several years ago? (i.e. "This is not spam due to Congress HR212.. etc."). Treat it and filter it in the same way. Not that you get anything useful in the corporate email anyways. I never did. From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 21:02:33 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:05:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote in news:Xns979B6E951DBEEspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61: > "Porpoise" wrote in news:e0tcin$tso$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/03/anonymizer_china/ >> >> Great! Now we won't even have the IP to add to the scbl......... > > but the spam doesn't actually come from China, it just uses open > chinese proxies right? this anonymizer is for chinese people in china > to get around the censoring. of course if they decide to start > spamming, it'll be a problem.... but it may show anonymizer's IP so > you could block that out I remember when Pete Stephenson used to have an anonymizing proxy on his Heypete.com site. As I recall it, the only thing that the Chinese and Vietnamese used it for was to trade pirated software. Needless to say the excessive bandwidth usage caused him to shut it down. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:07:20 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: > Sylvesterthekat wrote: > > > > They tend to do more begging though, if Santa Monica is anything to > > go by. They mooch off of everyone and probably help themselves to > > this or that then spend their days lying in the sun, listening to > > boom boxes and occasionally causing a nuisance. I don't think the > > notion of work even enters their heads. > > So, Santa Monica really is the home of the homeless then? Twas a pretty nice place last time I visited it! From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Tue Apr 4 21:08:33 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:10:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote in news:Xns979B668081B8Bspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61: > > Having been detained by US immigration once before, I don't > particularly want to go through that again because I've destroyed the > chip. We don't yet know what their reaction will be to non-working > chips, whether they'll be suspicious of it and detain you for > questioning. > My guess is that the RFID would make it easier to process your information when you do travel. If it doesn't work then they would have to resort to the old method of actually checking your passport. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:11:04 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Redstone" wrote in message news:Xns979B8335EC75Dtinlc@216.154.195.61... > > That is true. I'm just a cheap bastard to everyone else. :-) You're not 'cheap', you're a Yankee, and we call that "frugal"..... there IS a difference!!!! For example, Mrs. Landlord is cheap for giving recycled costume jewelry as Christmas gifts, I am thrifty by selling it.... (I haven't but I should....). From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:14:35 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:15:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: > indigo wrote: > > Chris Wright wrote: > >> Religion and Politics eh? The common cause of wars in 99% of most > >> online newsgroups. > > > > I thought top posting was.... > > Actually, you are both wrong. 73% of the wars are over statistics > used to support arguments that were just pulled out of the secret > file. My secret file sez it's 69%! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:15:10 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:20:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: was blah blah References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "indigo" wrote in > news:e0r6qr$iku$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > >> bloody top posting... ignore my previous comment, I didn't notice > >> the top post which said you can't see the great wall from space > > > > Don't worry, I did ;-) > > > > > > > > *narrows eyes at Indi* Be careful, your eyes may get stuck that way! From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:19:04 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:20:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > Eponym on 03/04/2006 wrote: > > >A barcode would have been just as effective, more secure, and less > >costly in this application. > > If the technology is there and people are forced to use it and some > company can make a hansom profit from producing it then it will be > used. Given a few decades we will be compelled to have chips > implanted if we want to travel anywhere or be able to make > transactions. > A la "the Manchurian Candidate"? From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:22:27 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:25:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message > news:e0ueg8$k4g$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Me either. If anyone notices faraday cage wallets actually > > > available online, please let me know. I've not managed to find > > > any yet, I think they're all out of stock. > > > > http://www.difrwear.com/index.shtml > > I like this part (news to me): > 3. As a result of the REALID act, all US state drivers licenese are > required to contain RFID tags by the year 2007. "In the United States, the REALID act was recently passed. This legislation requires all state driver's licenses to contain "common machine readable technology" by the year 2007. The only such technology today is RFID." That isn't a true statement. A barcode is machine readable. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:27:01 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:30:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Skiwi wrote: > Fortunately I got in under the wire (if you will excuse the egregious > pun!) with my US passport being issued on February 2nd 2006 *without* > one - so I have until 2016 to think about what I would do - and my > Kiwi passport to travel on if I get an updated US one before then... Isn't the USA going to require them soon for entry? It doesn't matter if your current passport is good until 2016, IIRC we're going to make all you ferriners get the RFID ones by 2007? Or else you don't get in. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:33:03 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:35:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: Redstone wrote: > > I remember when Pete Stephenson used to have an anonymizing proxy on > his Heypete.com site. As I recall it, the only thing that the Chinese > and Vietnamese used it for was to trade pirated software. Needless to > say the excessive bandwidth usage caused him to shut it down. Yes, he did. Allowed me to get around my work netnanny. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:34:12 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:35:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: <15721-44213CB4-1@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: I like raw tomatoes too. I'm sort of > with George Costanza, wondering why they never really made it as a > hand fruit. Just reading that makes me ill...... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:37:46 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > Mr K. Mean wrote: > > Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email > > you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? > > Discuss. > > Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I > damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers > when I reply to them. IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations they can actually mean something. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:37:56 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:45:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: <15721-44213CB4-1@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0ul87$p0k$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Mr K. Mean wrote: > I like raw tomatoes too. I'm sort of > > with George Costanza, wondering why they never really made it as a > > hand fruit. > > Just reading that makes me ill...... That's how we used to eat them as kids, like apples, straight from the garden with the saltshaker nearby. YUM. From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Apr 4 14:43:56 2006 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Apr 4 16:50:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Borgholio wrote: > >>Mr K. Mean wrote: >> >>>Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email >>>you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? >>>Discuss. >> >>Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I >>damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers >>when I reply to them. > > > IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations they can > actually mean something. > > hmm....see if you can find that. I'm wondering what those situations are. From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:55:26 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:00:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > indigo wrote: > > Borgholio wrote: > > > >>Mr K. Mean wrote: > >> > >>>Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email > >>>you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? > >>>Discuss. > >> > >>Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I > >>damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers > >>when I reply to them. > > > > > > IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations > > they can actually mean something. > > > > > > hmm....see if you can find that. I'm wondering what those situations > are. too busy, dude. do it yerself. From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Apr 4 14:57:05 2006 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:00:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Borgholio wrote: > >>indigo wrote: >> >>>Borgholio wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Mr K. Mean wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email >>>>>you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? >>>>>Discuss. >>>> >>>>Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I >>>>damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers >>>>when I reply to them. >>> >>> >>>IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations >>>they can actually mean something. >>> >>> >> >>hmm....see if you can find that. I'm wondering what those situations >>are. > > > too busy, dude. do it yerself. > > I'll give you a cookie... From loafman at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 17:24:10 2006 From: loafman at spamcop.net (Kenneth Loafman) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:25:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > indigo wrote: > >> Borgholio wrote: >> >>> indigo wrote: >>> >>>> Borgholio wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Mr K. Mean wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email >>>>>> you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? >>>>>> Discuss. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I >>>>> damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers >>>>> when I reply to them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations >>>> they can actually mean something. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> hmm....see if you can find that. I'm wondering what those situations >>> are. >> >> >> >> too busy, dude. do it yerself. >> >> > > I'll give you a cookie... Go to http://www.emaildisclaimers.com/ and read all you never wanted to know about email disclaimers... then make up your own mind(s). Appears to me that they do mean something... not clear exactly what... From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 23:31:13 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:35:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Redstone wrote: > Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in > news:Xns9796B9F7C1C52TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > > >> You can't drink wine because your wife doesn't care for wine? Dude... >> Does your wife have a DL? Can she drive? Can she drive if you're in >> the car? Can she drive if you've been drinking? Can she drive if >> you've been drinking beer? Can she drive if you've been drinking >> wine? Or is it more a question of can she drive if she's been >> drinking margaritas??? Not like I'm trying to pry into your personal >> life, but, uh, just curious, eh? > > > Answers to your questions... > > No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. :-) > > > > LOL From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 23:33:41 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:35:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? In-Reply-To: References: <15721-44213CB4-1@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: > > And bananas, we have been over this before. They are certainly gross > and when I become the all powerful being in the universe, they will > disappear, but I'm not afraid of them. Is there a phobia of banana's ? Were you attacked by them when young? I wasn't around for the first passing of said banana story, but really? From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 23:47:13 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > In article , > Sylvesterthekat wrote: > >> and why would a high school dropout have the commitment to do any job, let >> alone an unpleasant one? > > Because they don't have as much choice as someone with an education. > Beggars cannot be choosers. (for long) > Do hard unpleasant work, or get social for doing nothing... Its not a hard choice for most of them. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 23:57:42 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Tue Apr 4 18:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "David Dean" wrote in message > news:ozchzhq02-6790F5.08301604042006@frylock.local... >> In article , >> "Porpoise" wrote: >> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/03/anonymizer_china/ >>> >>> Great! Now we won't even have the IP to add to the scbl......... >> >> Wrong group... 8P We don't talk about spiced ham in .social >> > > Plopped ham with chalk?? Its the 4 letter word minus the word COP that this group takes it name from. The 4 letter word that apparently they don't like to mention in 'this' group. Chris From borgholio at storymind.com Tue Apr 4 16:08:31 2006 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Tue Apr 4 18:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kenneth Loafman wrote: > > > Go to http://www.emaildisclaimers.com/ and read all you never wanted to > know about email disclaimers... then make up your own mind(s). > > Appears to me that they do mean something... not clear exactly what... Hey thanks. I like this quote: 'The disclaimers added to the end of emails are not legally binding, but it's always good practice to try and disclaim liability'. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 00:47:21 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Tue Apr 4 18:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > In article , > Chris Wright wrote: > >> get social for doing nothing... > > What are you referring to? There is no safety net for healthy > unemployed high school drop outs in the US. > So its down to good old mom and pop over there then? I wish they would do that over here... In the UK, you don't get much because since you have not worked, you haven't paid any 'stamp' (stamp = social security/Taxes in the UK, its called National Insurance). From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 5 01:09:29 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 19:15:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: "Borgholio" wrote in message news:e0ulso$hup$2@news.spamcop.net... > indigo wrote: >> IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations they can >> actually mean something. >> >> > > hmm....see if you can find that. I'm wondering what those situations are. I think you'll find that they only have value if the disclaimer forms the body of the email and the text is in an attachment and the disclaimer therefore gets read before the receiver ever needs to read the information contained within the attachment and can therefore delete the email without ever having read the attached information. Whereas, if the information is contained within the body of the email with the disclaimer at the footer, then you will have already read the information before reaching the disclaimer; thereby making it valueless and pointless. Of course, if it's information that is private and confidential, then the attached file should also be encrypted. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 5 01:12:57 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Tue Apr 4 19:15:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" wrote in message news:e0uq43$rgv$2@news.spamcop.net... > Porpoise wrote: >> >> >> Plopped ham with chalk?? > > > Its the 4 letter word minus the word COP that this group takes it name > from. > The 4 letter word that apparently they don't like to mention in 'this' > group. > Ahh... I take it you never saw that ad with the young kid sent to the shop by his mum.... He was sent for chopped ham with pork but when he got to the shop, it came out as "plopped ham with chalk". From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 21:17:55 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Apr 4 20:25:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979BCCB69EDA9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Spamvireslayer" ! > > > That's how we used to eat them as kids, like apples, straight from > > the garden with the saltshaker nearby. YUM. > > No need for salt - they're plenty savory as is! Nonsense, a tiny sprinkle of salt brings out the flavor, balances the sweet. Just at tiny sprinkle, mind... From nobody at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 21:18:43 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Tue Apr 4 20:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > > Personally, I've never eaten green tomatoes but some people apparently like > them. I love tiny tomatoes, they're sooooooo good and I do pop them like > grapes. As to eating a regular tomato like a piece of fruit, I'd guess one > reason is that it could get very messy with all the stuff that Indi has the > heebies about dribbling all over you Not a problem, you just suck all that juicy stuff out before it leaks down your arm! From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 22:36:06 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 21:55:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | > You're not 'cheap', you're a Yankee, and we call that "frugal"..... | > there IS a difference!!!! For example, Mrs. Landlord is cheap for | > giving recycled costume jewelry as Christmas gifts, I am thrifty by | > selling it.... (I haven't but I should....). | > | | Who would buy it, that's the question? Mrs. Landlord From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 22:38:05 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 21:55:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "indigo" | > >> Religion and Politics eh? The common cause of wars in 99% of most | > >> online newsgroups. | > > | > > I thought top posting was.... | > | > Actually, you are both wrong. 73% of the wars are over statistics | > used to support arguments that were just pulled out of the secret | > file. | | My secret file sez it's 69%! You've been kissing up to your secret file just a bit too much. From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 22:43:40 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 21:55:19 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e0uler$p6j$1@news.spamcop.net... | | | Borgholio wrote: | > Mr K. Mean wrote: | > > Confidentiality disclaimers tacked onto the bottom of every email | > > you send from the corporate email system. How pointless are they? | > > Discuss. | > | > Pointless. The way I see it, you send me an email, I do whatever I | > damn well please with it. I make it a point to snip the disclaimers | > when I reply to them. | | IIRC I do remember reading something that in certain situations they can | actually mean something. They do in fact carry some legal weight especially in validating an established company policy but I'm retired and refuse to engage in anything that secret. As far as I'm concerned if you send it to me and I let the cat out of the bag your option is to take legal action or not ... makes no difference to me. Every time someone threatens me with legal action I remind them of something said by an old country lawyer 'sue a beggar get a louse' From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 22:49:50 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 21:55:21 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Check Before You Try to Fly --- You May Be on the No-Fly List References: <1144176747.861661.239060@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Nixon had his enemies list. He was removed from office for that among other outrages. Bush has his no-fly list, same as an enemies list --- except no one is outraged. Here's somebody on the list and he can do nothing about it: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/5/85158/32663 Isn't there something in the Constitution about due process of law? There were lists like this that preceded Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehri. Why weren't THEY on the no-fly list? From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 22:53:59 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 21:55:23 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Charity begins at home. References: Message-ID: "David Dean" | > Neil Bush was known in the 80s as one of the big participants in the | > saving and loan scandals. He ran Silverado Savings which when it went | > under cost the tax payers billions of dollars, well I think the final | > estimates of all of them crossed over into a trillion dollars. Another | > lovely thing to thank the Bush dynasty and their friends for. | | That is the info I could find... (and what I remembered) I couldn't | find anything about him being banned from stock trading. Probably in the same box with GWB flight logs. From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Wed Apr 5 03:00:03 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in news:e0uk2r$o05$1@news.spamcop.net: > > You're not 'cheap', you're a Yankee, and we call that "frugal"..... > there IS a difference!!!! For example, Mrs. Landlord is cheap for > giving recycled costume jewelry as Christmas gifts, I am thrifty by > selling it.... (I haven't but I should....). > > > Is Mrs. Landlord a child of the Great Depression? (I'm guessing she may be older than dirt.) :-) From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Wed Apr 5 03:00:54 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:05:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in news:Xns979BCC3C9B681TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > > > Um. You're not helping much, Chris. I don't feel like I got any > answers, there. Oh, no, wait... This is twenty questions... > Redstone's wife is a Pez dispenser! > Okay.. that's it! NO MORE COFFEE FOR CHARLIE! :-) From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Wed Apr 5 03:04:08 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:05:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in news:e0ul5v$ovv$1@news.spamcop.net: > > Yes, he did. Allowed me to get around my work netnanny. > > Helped me track down spammer scamsites when the spammers tried to hide themselves from me through DNS blocking my IP address. From redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com Wed Apr 5 03:06:38 2006 From: redford_stone at INVERSE_OF_COLDmail.com (Redstone) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:10:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote in news:Xns979BB57A0A7Cspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61: > > ROFL really? Was it only the Chinese and Vietnamese doing it? Yeah. I inquired about it when I discovered it was shut down, and he mentioned about the megahuge file transfers going between these asian countries. He wanted to keep it open as means of helping those who are subject to government supression of information.. but the cost in bandwidth due to this abuse was too much for him to shoulder. From six.million at dollar.man Tue Apr 4 23:38:44 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:40:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e0s7jo$7r2$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Sylvesterthekat" > > | > And you presume to know the mind set/thinking of God? > | > | > | I think I know what is said about the Christian god by worshippers of > that > | god. Since I do not believe that there is any such being, there is no > mind > | set for me to know. > > Considering that GWB and company purport to worship the Christian god and > speak for him as well how can you trust what anyone says about what's on > the > Christian god's mind? Fortunately, the Bible was written long before GWB came along... From six.million at dollar.man Tue Apr 4 23:40:30 2006 From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:45:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979A98E0FA3Espamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... > "dwåcôn" wrote in > news:e0s4bi$5hf$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> That negates free will... and is reminiscent of the Nurse Ratchett >> lobotomies from the "Cukoo's Nest." So, give them a lobotomy of sort >> and remove their ability to make their own decisions (good or evil). > > Well you could just remove the free will of the evil ones. The rest > don't need to be tinkered with. Removing their free will would be a violation of their free will... >> And without free will, people are no longer sentient children of God >> but, rather, automatons... > > If'n ya ask me, that's what some religious types are! Some... perhaps, many. > Hell no, why do you think I'm an atheist!? Because you're not in a fox hole? From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 23:35:28 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:45:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "David Dean" | > get social for doing nothing... | | What are you referring to? There is no safety net for healthy | unemployed high school drop outs in the US. There's no effective safty net for many of disabled unemplyed as well. From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 23:37:10 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:45:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: <1143646842.891218.27640@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" | | > What are you referring to? There is no safety net for healthy | > unemployed high school drop outs in the US. | > | | actually there is (food stamps), but they can't milk it for very long Not as easy as one might be led to believe to qualify for food stamps even when there are kids involved. From devnull at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 23:39:04 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Tue Apr 4 22:45:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979B6628941FFspamalyzerluzernet@216.154.195.61... | "Eponym" wrote in | news:e0s7hi$7q6$1@news.spamcop.net: | | | > The issue isn't whether they (meaning gov't) gets the info. The issue | > is everyone else getting the info. The idiotic things have a range of | > 20' or more. How long do you think it will take for criminals to make | > a small device that looks for unshielded passports to allow them to | > target victims? Run up and down a hotel corridor and pick out all the | > Americans? Sit in the lobby of the hotel? Hell, it doesn't even | > matter if they know exactly who you are...just the fact that the thing | > transmit something is enough on its own! But the data isn't encrypted | > anyway, so, they'll be able to find out pretty quick anyway. | | I'm not worried about being identified as an American since I'm not one. | But I don't want my identity stolen, for starters! Hence I need to get some | sort of shielding wallet before I actually use this thing. Pick up one of the zip lock bags HDD drives are shipped in. Also check out some of the Toll tag stores they have a bag that is RF proof for blocking toll tags. From skiwi at spamcop.net Tue Apr 4 21:57:01 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Wed Apr 5 00:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Skiwi wrote in news:e0t8bc$rnc$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> And don't travel to countries with RFID-savvy 'insurgents' that maybe >> want target (in the worse sense of the word) Americans passport >> carriers.... if Iraqi 'insurgents' can routinely build bombs that can >> be triggered by cell phones, this is not a stretch of the imagination >> IMHO... >> >> Fortunately I got in under the wire (if you will excuse the egregious >> pun!) with my US passport being issued on February 2nd 2006 *without* >> one - so I have until 2016 to think about what I would do - and my >> Kiwi passport to travel on if I get an updated US one before then... >> > > I imagine that if it becomes a problem, they'll stop putting them into > passports. [snip] Wonder who gets to "show" there is a problem, if there ever is one... From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Wed Apr 5 08:45:45 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Wed Apr 5 02:50:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in news:e0ueg8$k4g$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > >> http://www.difrwear.com/index.shtml > > That's the one I've found before but it's out of stock. However it now says > you can preorder it so I guess I could just get in line. I don't anticipate > using this passport until the end of the year anyway. You could build your own. http://www.rfid-weblog.com/50226711/building_a_faraday_cage_in_clothing_to_shield_rfid_tags.php Apparently this fabric is the key http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html Wow, imagine, not just a tin foil hat but you could make a whole tin foil robe or something. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Wed Apr 5 08:50:31 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Wed Apr 5 02:55:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "indigo" wrote in news:e0ujlp$nmt$1@news.spamcop.net: > >>> So, Santa Monica really is the home of the homeless then? >> Twas a pretty nice place last time I visited it! > > It is nice! It's lovely in fact. No bloody wonder they want to live there. Just wondering because Harry Shearer uses that as a tagline for his Le Show radio show and he mentioned once that Santa Monica wasn't all that happy about him saying it every week. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Wed Apr 5 09:27:26 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Wed Apr 5 03:30:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > > It's true. No doubt you noticed the difference between packaged food in > europe and here. It's much saltier/sweeter here than there to the point > where some of it is inedible. OK a lot of it LOL. But if you want the sweetest substance known to mankind, my guess is that would have to be candy from India. I don't know how they do it. From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Wed Apr 5 12:31:57 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Wed Apr 5 05:35:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: the bigotry behind this is amazing References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote on Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:07:15 +0000 (UTC): > Good grief. This country is more embedded in the dark ages than I had > though. See the thread of a few weeks ago in this very newsgroup about creationism and intelligent design. Seen from the outside, the US is nothing but a bunch of war-mongering, oil-guzzling, greenhouse-gas-generating, bible-thumping bigots. From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Wed Apr 5 12:33:48 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Wed Apr 5 05:35:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote on Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:10:04 +0100: >>> This reminds me, I'm very exited to have recently been able to get >>> the VA license plate which reads "ZAPHOD" The previous owner must have >>> left the state. >> >> Or this Galaxy :) >> > I'd be quite worried as to why he left? > Do you think he 'knows' about some new super highway? 42? From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Wed Apr 5 12:40:02 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Wed Apr 5 05:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: never again References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote on Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:29:58 -0400: > On Wednesday , at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 > in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. The 4th of May is a Thursday. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 09:34:33 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:35:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > > > > too busy, dude. do it yerself. > > > > > > I'll give you a cookie... Tell you what -- run over this bitch in charge of a program I'm working on (bike, truck, maim, kill, whatever, just get her out of my hair) and I'll do anything you want! From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 09:37:02 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:40:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > Redstone's wife is a Pez dispenser! So Red, what happens when you tilt her head back? ;-) From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 09:38:06 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:40:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > > > Personally, I've never eaten green tomatoes but some people > > apparently like them. I love tiny tomatoes, they're sooooooo good > > and I do pop them like grapes. As to eating a regular tomato like a > > piece of fruit, I'd guess one reason is that it could get very > > messy with all the stuff that Indi has the heebies about dribbling > > all over you > > Not a problem, you just suck all that juicy stuff out before it leaks > down your arm! Oh, how lady like *that* must sound.... From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 09:41:45 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:45:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Porpoise" wrote in > news:e0udvl$jr5$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > > Well, if "anonymizer" is on the trojanized/proxified system (within > > China) that originates the spam......... > > I may be misunderstanding how it's going to work but I think it won't > actually reside in China at all. Rather it will reside outside of > China, a Chinese user will connect to it, then, with their new > non-chinese IP they'll be able to surf wherever they want from their > China based computer. And how long do you think it will take the authorities to find that URL and block it? From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 09:46:08 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: nobody else has said it so i will References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Yay! DeLay is going! LOL > > I wonder why he's suddenly changed his mind. Pressure from the GOP no > doubt... > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4874566.stm It's also pretty hard to campaign from the pokey.... From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 14:46:27 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:50:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Sylvesterthekat wrote: >> "Porpoise" wrote in >> news:e0udvl$jr5$1@news.spamcop.net: >> >> >>> Well, if "anonymizer" is on the trojanized/proxified system (within >>> China) that originates the spam......... >> I may be misunderstanding how it's going to work but I think it won't >> actually reside in China at all. Rather it will reside outside of >> China, a Chinese user will connect to it, then, with their new >> non-chinese IP they'll be able to surf wherever they want from their >> China based computer. > > And how long do you think it will take the authorities to find that URL and > block it? > > The site in question merely provides a link for downloading the application, and it says on their site that the domain name and location will change regularly to allow people to download it. It relies upon 'word of mouth/email' to keep people informed as to where to get it from. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 5 14:48:39 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Wed Apr 5 08:50:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: the bigotry behind this is amazing References: Message-ID: "D-W-S" wrote in message news:slrne373kd.fli.dws@dealing-with-spam.info... > Sylvesterthekat wrote on Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:07:15 +0000 (UTC): > >> Good grief. This country is more embedded in the dark ages than I had >> though. > > See the thread of a few weeks ago in this very newsgroup about > creationism and intelligent design. > > Seen from the outside, the US is nothing but a bunch of war-mongering, > oil-guzzling, greenhouse-gas-generating, bible-thumping bigots. You forgot empire building, dictatorial (to other countries), two faced, lying, crooked....... etc. From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Wed Apr 5 14:32:34 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Wed Apr 5 09:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Porpoise on 04/04/2006 wrote: >If the travellers get hearded through bottleneck passport check system >(much like that used for forcing livestock through dips), then the data >get be read off the passports automatically without every single one being >physically handled by an officer. >From my experience custom officers like looking through passports. The often need to check the visa stamp which is the good old fashioned rubber stamp and then they seem to like to look at your other visas to see where you've been (often just out of curiosity). As an aside, if it contains biometric data which they want here in the UK then iris scans tend to be inaccurate and fail in elderly people and finger print scans often do not work for people involved with manual work such as building. I somehow think they are going to be more trouble than they are worth and end up aggravating many people. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Wed Apr 5 14:44:31 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Wed Apr 5 09:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 04/04/2006 wrote: >>From reading the rule on implementation, it looks like you're one of >>the guinea pigs (figure of speech!!)...they aren't supposed to roll >>them out for "real" until later this year. As an early adopter, I >>hope you really work the thing over to the point they scrap the idea >>altogether! >> >> >> > >This is a United Kingdom passport. I had no choice in the matter, all UK >passports now have this thing in them. No they don't. I just looked at my new passport and there's no tag in it. The only difference between this one and my old one issued 10 years ago is that the new one has my photo printed on it with an holograph overlay. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Wed Apr 5 14:47:26 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Wed Apr 5 09:50:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 05/04/2006 wrote: >Things in the UK are getting worse though, because pretty soon they're >going to introduce a national ID card scheme which you're obliged to get >by 2010 if you apply for a passport. The amount of data they'll collect >about people is kinda scary because no doubt you'll need these cards to >be able to open bank accounts, visit a doctor, claim benefits... pretty >much everything in fact. So somewhere on some computer almost every bit >of your activity will be recorded. Time to drop out and live in the >outback methinks. My sentiments entirely. I've about four years to find another country that is nice to live in and escape this creeping totalitarianism which seems to be learning how to run. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Wed Apr 5 14:49:07 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Wed Apr 5 09:50:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Was RE: let me see if I get this right (indigo) References: Message-ID: Chris Wright on 04/04/2006 wrote: >>> This reminds me, I'm very exited to have recently been able to get >>>the VA license plate which reads "ZAPHOD" The previous owner must have >>>left the state. >> >>Or this Galaxy :) >> >I'd be quite worried as to why he left? >Do you think he 'knows' about some new super highway? Probably not the highway that worried him, more likely the poetry! -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 5 16:30:15 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Wed Apr 5 10:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: the bigotry behind this is amazing References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e10ecm$qo6$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "D-W-S" wrote in message > news:slrne373kd.fli.dws@dealing-with-spam.info... >> Seen from the outside, the US is nothing but a bunch of war-mongering, >> oil-guzzling, greenhouse-gas-generating, bible-thumping bigots. > > You forgot empire building, dictatorial (to other countries), two faced, > lying, crooked....... etc. And...... paranoid, selfish, egotistical......... From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 5 16:32:08 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Wed Apr 5 10:35:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:e10hju$sdv$1@news.spamcop.net... > > No they don't. I just looked at my new passport and there's no tag in it. > The only difference between this one and my old one issued 10 years ago is > that the new one has my photo printed on it with an holograph overlay. > And it's machine-readable..... From borgholio at storymind.com Wed Apr 5 10:55:55 2006 From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:00:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Borgholio wrote: > >>>too busy, dude. do it yerself. >>> >>> >> >>I'll give you a cookie... > > > Tell you what -- run over this bitch in charge of a program I'm working on > (bike, truck, maim, kill, whatever, just get her out of my hair) and I'll do > anything you want! > > hmmmm......on my way. :) From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 13:57:25 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping\Warning any MD and VA .socialites References: Message-ID: "Redstone" wrote in message > > Is Mrs. Landlord a child of the Great Depression? (I'm guessing she may be > older than dirt.) :-) > Mrs. Landlord is in her 70's, spoiled socially climbing child of a doctor in tony Weston, so she's all about old money and prestige. Except not when it comes to others, she's got this really bizzare social ladder in her head. She's at the top, everyone else is either her employee or her slave. From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 14:08:39 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:10:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: Borgholio wrote: > indigo wrote: > > Borgholio wrote: > > > >>>too busy, dude. do it yerself. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>I'll give you a cookie... > > > > > > Tell you what -- run over this bitch in charge of a program I'm > > working on (bike, truck, maim, kill, whatever, just get her out of > > my hair) and I'll do anything you want! > > > > > > hmmmm......on my way. :) Be careful, her bite is much worse than her bark, and she barks REAL loud! From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 14:00:39 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:10:20 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message > A tiny sprinkle of salt brings out the flavor of salt. It's odd, but if > you go, say, 2 months without adding any salt to anything, well, you get to > the point where anything commercial just tastes grossly overly salty. But, > hey, that's my experience. You may not be there... But what will those > two months cost you? I buy unsalted everything because I"m sodium sensitive, no prepared food that loaded with it, and I use it minimally in cooking. I had dinner at the Rents a couple of weeks ago and I damn near died, her food was SO oversalted it burned my tongue and you would not want to have seen what I looked like the next day. Salt, like everything else, should be used in moderation.... From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 14:02:22 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:10:23 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e10dnf$q43$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Heidi wrote: > > Not a problem, you just suck all that juicy stuff out before it leaks > > down your arm! > > Oh, how lady like *that* must sound.... I should think that's a sound that's like music to YOUR ears........;D From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 14:37:00 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 13:40:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > I buy unsalted everything because I"m sodium sensitive, Hey, you ever used colloidal silver before? I got my blood test results, nada, zippo, no lymes, nothing popped up as abnormal. Still waiting on the thyoid test results though. I had my left knee drained yesterday and got some cortisone, seems to have helped a bit (wish he had done my right knee too, but since I've avoided most, if not all, physical activity it wasn't very swollen). Course it hurt like hell last night, had to ice it even though I got some Percs. I was prepared for that though, cortisone usually has a one day opposite affect with me (hurts worse then gets better). The ortho guy took some fluid to get analyzed for bacteria (it was piss yellow, is that good or bad?). Anyway, back to my question.....assuming nobody can find a smoking gun, I was wondering if I should self treat with silver -- it seems to be able to conquer a lot of problems (well, the web page says that at least http://www.all-natural.com/silver-1.html ) From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 15:23:24 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 14:25:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e10dnf$q43$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > > > Heidi wrote: > > > Not a problem, you just suck all that juicy stuff out before it > > > leaks down your arm! > > > > Oh, how lady like *that* must sound.... > > I should think that's a sound that's like music to YOUR ears........;D In a different context, well of course! From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Wed Apr 5 19:26:29 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Wed Apr 5 14:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Porpoise on 05/04/2006 wrote: >>No they don't. I just looked at my new passport and there's no tag in it. >> The only difference between this one and my old one issued 10 years ago is that the new one has my photo printed on it with an holograph overlay. >> > >And it's machine-readable..... Yep...and I've heard quite a few reports from people I know who had their application returned due to the photo being not up to scratch for machine readable due to them using a photo booth which doesn't always produce a good photo. I used a photography shop for it this time and each shot was checked until we got it right. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Wed Apr 5 20:26:39 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Wed Apr 5 14:30:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Borgholio wrote: >> indigo wrote: >>> Tell you what -- run over this bitch in charge of a program I'm >>> working on (bike, truck, maim, kill, whatever, just get her out of >>> my hair) and I'll do anything you want! >>> >> hmmmm......on my way. :) > > Be careful, her bite is much worse than her bark, and she barks REAL loud! Indy's in luv. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 22:27:07 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:30:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > Porpoise on 05/04/2006 wrote: > >>> No they don't. I just looked at my new passport and there's no tag >>> in it. The only difference between this one and my old one issued 10 >>> years ago is that the new one has my photo printed on it with an >>> holograph overlay. >>> >> >> And it's machine-readable..... > > Yep...and I've heard quite a few reports from people I know who had > their application returned due to the photo being not up to scratch for > machine readable due to them using a photo booth which doesn't always > produce a good photo. I used a photography shop for it this time and > each shot was checked until we got it right. > Talking of which, we just got back my 7 year old daughters UK passport application for the 3rd time today, and all 3 applications were checked by the Main Post Office to make sure they were OK before we submitted them. (To be fair to the Passport Office, I complained the first time they sent it back that I had it checked prior to sending and they waived the fees, but still). Each time they have complained the photo had some flaw in it. Todays was she was just slightly too far back from the camera. Pedantic isn't a word I would use, but I do have an image of some anal re-tentative inspector who takes out his frustrations by kicking back applications for fun. Either that or the system is automated and was developed in (a) Redmond, or (b) Bangalore From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 17:53:39 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Wed Apr 5 16:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Rant o' the day References: Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: > indigo wrote: > > Borgholio wrote: > >> indigo wrote: > >>> Tell you what -- run over this bitch in charge of a program I'm > >>> working on (bike, truck, maim, kill, whatever, just get her out of > >>> my hair) and I'll do anything you want! > >>> > >> hmmmm......on my way. :) > > > > Be careful, her bite is much worse than her bark, and she barks > > REAL loud! > > Indy's in luv. No, unfortunately. You know, I'm really not a hater, but I just might hate this woman enough to want her dead (or severely wounded ;-). She's a miserable person who makes everyone working with her miserable. Not fun. She's one of those people who keeps getting shuffled from job to job because she wears out her welcome, she almost got fired a few times because of it. She recently "quit" my company to get out of the fear of getting fired for her behavior and she's gone plumb insane now. From kenbrody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 17:02:43 2006 From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody) Date: Wed Apr 5 18:50:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: nobody else has said it so i will References: Message-ID: <44342263.16671A91@spamcop.net> indigo wrote: > > Sylvesterthekat wrote: > > Yay! DeLay is going! LOL > > > > I wonder why he's suddenly changed his mind. Pressure from the GOP no > > doubt... > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4874566.stm > > It's also pretty hard to campaign from the pokey.... Hey, dead people have won elections (and not just because the dead people voted for them), so how hard could it be to campaign from jail? While it may cut down on personal appearances, the rest wouldn't change. "Vote for someone so tough on crime, he threw himself in jail!"[tm] -- +-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ | Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | | | kenbrody/at\spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | #include | +-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ Don't e-mail me at: From nobody at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 20:13:00 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Wed Apr 5 19:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e10v7u$5d9$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Hey, you ever used colloidal silver before? There is no documented evidence that it cures anything, and anything that can turn me permanently blue, I'm not touching with a barge pole. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html I got my blood test results, > nada, zippo, no lymes, nothing popped up as abnormal. "Not abnormal" doesn't mean much - did you get copies of the tests? Did you have stuff done at the rheumatologist, like a CRP? Still waiting on the > has a one day opposite affect with me (hurts worse then gets better). The > ortho guy took some fluid to get analyzed for bacteria (it was piss yellow, > is that good or bad?). It's yellowish, if it's dark yellow that's probably not normal, but what they took out of my knee was yellow and clear and perfectly normal. > > Anyway, back to my question.....assuming nobody can find a smoking gun, I > was wondering if I should self treat with silver -- Self treat for what? It's supposed antibiotic properties if they exist aren't worth the risks of what it could do to you. From bert at iphouse.com Thu Apr 6 00:31:47 2006 From: bert at iphouse.com (Bert Hyman) Date: Wed Apr 5 19:35:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Check Before You Try to Fly --- You May Be on the No-Fly List References: <1144176747.861661.239060@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In news:e0v7sf$4h5$4@news.spamcop.net "Frog Prince" wrote: > Isn't there something in the Constitution about due process of law? Geezz.. That's so nineteenth century! -- Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com From devnull at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 20:42:15 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Apr 5 19:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: nobody else has said it so i will References: <44342263.16671A91@spamcop.net> Message-ID: "Kenneth Brody" | > > Yay! DeLay is going! LOL | > > | > > I wonder why he's suddenly changed his mind. Pressure from the GOP no | > > doubt... | > > | > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4874566.stm | > | > It's also pretty hard to campaign from the pokey.... | | Hey, dead people have won elections (and not just because the dead people | voted for them), so how hard could it be to campaign from jail? While it | may cut down on personal appearances, the rest wouldn't change. | | "Vote for someone so tough on crime, he threw himself in jail!"[tm] Mayor of DC ran as a convicted felon. From devnull at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 21:34:56 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Wed Apr 5 20:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "dwåcôn" | > | > And you presume to know the mind set/thinking of God? | > | | > | | > | I think I know what is said about the Christian god by worshippers of | > that god. Since I do not believe that there is any such being, there is no | > mind set for me to know. | > | > Considering that GWB and company purport to worship the Christian god and | > speak for Him as well how can you trust what anyone says about what's on | > the Christian god's mind? | | | Fortunately, the Bible was written long before GWB came along... And that somehow prevents him from misinterpreting it's teachings? From edb2000 at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 19:41:49 2006 From: edb2000 at spamcop.net (Don Wannit) Date: Wed Apr 5 21:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] God's Own Party Message-ID: Washington Post article written by a political analyst/consultant from the "old" Republican days (Nixon). If Dubya's hearing voices is getting more coverage in the mainstream media, maybe we're nearing a tipping point? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/01/AR2006040100004.html tinyurl version: http://tinyurl.com/oaz7p > ... U.S. preoccupation with the Middle East has another dimension. In > addition to its concerns with oil and terrorism, the White House is > courting end-times theologians and electorates for whom the Holy > Lands are a battleground of Christian destiny. > > [...] > > ... No leading world power in modern memory has become a captive of > the sort of biblical inerrancy that dismisses modern knowledge and > science. The last parallel was in the early 17th century, when the > papacy, with the agreement of inquisitional Spain, disciplined the > astronomer Galileo for saying that the sun, not the Earth, was the > center of our solar system. -- Don Wannit A paid SpamCop user since 1999 From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 22:47:23 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Wed Apr 5 21:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Check Before You Try to Fly --- You May Be on the No-Fly List References: <1144176747.861661.239060@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CB69C453AFsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Frog Prince" wrote in news:e0v7sf$4h5$4 > @news.spamcop.net: > >> Nixon had his enemies list. He was removed from office for that among >> other outrages. >> >> Bush has his no-fly list, same as an enemies list --- except no one is >> outraged. > > Don't know about no one. Plenty of people are outraged, just not the > people who can actually DO anything about it. I stumbled across an > interesting article today about Senator Ervin in the 60s and 70s who > discovered that the army was spying on US citizens and did something > about it which also led to him discovering Watergate. What we need is > someone like him having the balls to ask the necessary questions and get > something DONE. > > http://www.cmhpf.org/senator%20sam%20ervin.htm#_edn10 > >> Here's somebody on the list and he can do nothing about it: >> >> http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/5/85158/32663 > > I wonder if, once Bush is out of office and replaced with someone > competent, people such as this guy will finally be taken off the 'no > fly' lists. > I don't understand why the guy hasn't sued...jeez, it isn't like ACLU or someone wouldn't help with it. From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 23:57:29 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Wed Apr 5 23:00:24 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: God's Own Party References: Message-ID: "Don Wannit" wrote in message news:e11rku$q15$1@news.spamcop.net... > Washington Post article written by a political analyst/consultant > from the "old" Republican days (Nixon). If Dubya's hearing voices > is getting more coverage in the mainstream media, maybe we're > nearing a tipping point? > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/01/AR2006040100004.html > tinyurl version: http://tinyurl.com/oaz7p > > > ... U.S. preoccupation with the Middle East has another dimension. In > > addition to its concerns with oil and terrorism, the White House is > > courting end-times theologians and electorates for whom the Holy > > Lands are a battleground of Christian destiny. > > > > [...] > > > > ... No leading world power in modern memory has become a captive of > > the sort of biblical inerrancy that dismisses modern knowledge and > > science. The last parallel was in the early 17th century, when the > > papacy, with the agreement of inquisitional Spain, disciplined the > > astronomer Galileo for saying that the sun, not the Earth, was the > > center of our solar system. > > This probably explains the way Bush all the other idiots in the GOP are spending money too...they believe we're in the end times. So, no worries about paying the tab. :o/ From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 00:00:26 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Wed Apr 5 23:05:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CB4E364434sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4879380.stm > > > Co-habiting 'makes women fatter' > > The study found women adopted their partner's eating habits > Women tend to put on weight and eat more unhealthily when they move in > with > a boyfriend, a study suggests. > > But Newcastle University dieticians said, in a review of seven studies, > that men seemed to become more healthy after they began co-habiting. > > The study in Complete Nutrition suggested women's diets tended to increase > in fat and sugar after they began living with a partner. Hmmm...we make you eat? Hey, at least us men eat healthier with a woman around! :o) From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 00:10:52 2006 From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Eponym) Date: Wed Apr 5 23:15:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Check Before You Try to Fly --- You May Be on the No-Fly List References: <1144176747.861661.239060@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CC1F682BA1sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Eponym" wrote in news:e11s0t$q90$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > > >> >> I don't understand why the guy hasn't sued...jeez, it isn't like ACLU or >> someone wouldn't help with it. > > Who would he sue? I thought these laws were supposedly unchallengable for > some reason. If not then it makes no sense why he doesn't. It's absurd > that > once a person is cleared to fly, they're not cleared to fly in the future. > Why on one occasion are they considered a non-risk then next time they're > suddenly a risk again only to be cleared after a lot of mucking about. > It's > stupid but then so is Bush. If the TSA are doing their job (which > obviously > they aren't but that's another issue) then general searches should be > finding anything these supposed 'risk' individuals might try to smuggle > onto planes. No...every citizen has a right to petition their government. There is a right to due process here...they're denying this guy's liberties. If it were me, I'd sue TSA, Bush, etc.. They HAVE to respond...they might ask that the case be heard in a closed court, but the guy has a right to be heard and see whatever evidence is being held against him. The day we can't challenge gov't is the day it should be overthrown. From skiwi at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 22:47:50 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Thu Apr 6 00:50:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Skiwi wrote in news:e0vf6g$8g0$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >>> I imagine that if it becomes a problem, they'll stop putting them into >>> passports. >> [snip] >> >> Wonder who gets to "show" there is a problem, if there ever is one... >> > > Repeated attacks on Americans that increasingly clearly are to do with the > RFID chips should show a problem. A pattern would emerge eventually I'm > sure. I don't suppose identity theft would be reason enough for them to > discontinue their use but if there's a huge increase in it, or of people > using info that could only have come from a passport, maybe it'll give > pause for thought. I was thinking more of a roadside bomb hooked to an RFID reader, 20' range, even a car moving at 30 mph would be vulnerable... From skiwi at spamcop.net Wed Apr 5 22:51:16 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Thu Apr 6 00:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Canopus" wrote in > news:e1124l$6ud$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> Yep...and I've heard quite a few reports from people I know who had >> their application returned due to the photo being not up to scratch >> for machine readable due to them using a photo booth which doesn't >> always produce a good photo. I used a photography shop for it this >> time and each shot was checked until we got it right. >> > > If you notice, the picture on your passport isn't actually the photograph > that you sent them but a reprinted version with the background removed. so > obviously they scan it into some software which cuts out the image of your > face and then that gets laid onto the watermarked page so that you can see > the paper behind your head. Also full frontal view now (some of the paperwork is outdated, I had to resubmit some of mine) and no smiling - i.e., you face should be relaxed so that can scan, process and compare your face against a database automagically as you walk through the airport (or soon to be anywhere?) From skiwi at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 00:48:28 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Thu Apr 6 02:50:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] "Danger UXB" Message-ID: Amazing what you find on Netflix, added this to my queue, got the first DVD today - brings back some memories of watching this as a kid in NZ... Trotting out the clich?, they don't make them like this any more... From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Thu Apr 6 11:40:28 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Thu Apr 6 04:45:35 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote on Thu, 6 Apr 2006 00:46:55 +0000 (UTC): > Women tend to put on weight and eat more unhealthily when they move in > with a boyfriend, a study suggests. What if they move in with a girlfriend? :) Or is that still too un-PC for Aunty Beeb? From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 06:03:14 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 05:06:00 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CB77F0905Fsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "dwåcôn" wrote in news:e0vamu$66s$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > > >> Removing their free will would be a violation of their free will... > > tough titties if they're committing evil acts! > I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and thus carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that are easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of time before the consequences are felt). Miss Betsy From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 11:28:23 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 05:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > > I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can > believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are > neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and thus > carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that are > easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of time > before the consequences are felt). I don't understand. Are you saying that a lack of belief in god also means that that person has absolutely no idea about right and wrong? Why does it have to be a supernatural standard? If there wasn't a commandment against killing, I still think that most people would agree it is wrong. Good and evil are human inventions. As far as anybody knows, animals have no concept of them. I would say that evil acts are harmful to the community, to society, and that can be a basis for judging good and evil. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 12:03:43 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 06:05:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e12lgb$8ec$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> > > I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can > believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are > neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and > thus carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that > are easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of time > before the consequences are felt). > You don't need to believe in some supernatural entity in order to have a concept of good and evil - these concepts are generally covered by a society's concept of what is considered to be "good" or "evil" and varies in different cultures... I generally consider something like helping underprivileged kids to be "good" and rape & pillage to be "bad" (I don't tend to actually use the term"evil"). That has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in some entity or other. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 12:08:46 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 06:10:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "Eponym" wrote in message news:e1209r$sil$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Hmmm...we make you eat? > > Hey, at least us men eat healthier with a woman around! :o) Nah! I think it's more a case of them making less effort to stay in shape once they've "got" their man...... From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 12:14:11 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 06:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CB920AC68Csylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Porpoise" wrote in > news:e10kep$u3u$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> >> And it's machine-readable..... >> >> > > My 10 yr old one was machine readable, they've been around for a while. Yes, 2 or 3 years I believe - I got my new one last year. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 12:16:17 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 06:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CB845FB25Bsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in news:e0vrh3$fk8$1 > @news.spamcop.net: > > >> But if you want the sweetest substance known to mankind, my guess is >> that would have to be candy from India. I don't know how they do it. >> > > LOL, I can't say as I've ever had it. Sets the teeth on edge huh? More like... makes you wanna vomit...... yuk! From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 12:18:30 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 06:20:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Anonymizer for China....... great!?! References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979CB88F7D014sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "indigo" wrote in > news:e10du9$qd1$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> And how long do you think it will take the authorities to find that >> URL and block it? >> >> >> > > Which is why they say they're planning on changing it periodically eh? And to think, if it was China producing something that enabled US citizens to undermine some aspect of the US administration's policies, it would be tantamount to terrrrorrrism...... Talk about hypocritical! From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Thu Apr 6 11:56:48 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Apr 6 07:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Skiwi on 06/04/2006 wrote: >>Repeated attacks on Americans that increasingly clearly are to do with the >> RFID chips should show a problem. A pattern would emerge eventually I'm sure. I don't suppose identity theft would be reason enough for them to discontinue their use but if there's a huge increase in it, or of people using info that could only have come from a passport, maybe it'll give pause for thought. > >I was thinking more of a roadside bomb hooked to an RFID reader, 20' >range, even a car moving at 30 mph would be vulnerable... Hmmm...smart bombs that target specific nationals, now that's an unnerving thought. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Thu Apr 6 12:04:30 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Apr 6 07:05:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 06/04/2006 wrote: >My 10 yr old one was machine readable, they've been around for a while. Yes, my old passport was machine readable, but, the photo was not. I believe porpoise was referring to the new machine readable photos with the holographic overlay which have come in since then. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Thu Apr 6 12:11:05 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Apr 6 07:15:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 06/04/2006 wrote: >> The only difference between this one and my old one issued 10 years >> ago is that the new one has my photo printed on it with an holograph >> overlay. >> > >they started issuing them last month... when did you get yours? What, with the coil in? I got mine in January, but, it should have been renewed this month. You don't loose out renewing them early, they cancel your old one and add the difference to your new one. So if what you say is true then by getting it a few months early I won't have to be bothered with being a guinea pig for the new gizmo for another 10 years...Hooray! :) -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 13:20:39 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 07:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:e12sjt$c4n$1@news.spamcop.net... > Sylvesterthekat on 06/04/2006 wrote: > >>My 10 yr old one was machine readable, they've been around for a while. > > Yes, my old passport was machine readable, but, the photo was not. I > believe porpoise was referring to the new machine readable photos with the > holographic overlay which have come in since then. Yes, the older ones had the photo and data on the inside of the back cover. The new ones have the photo and data on the last page within the passport and there are transparent sections on the page at strategic points. From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Thu Apr 6 12:34:31 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Apr 6 07:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Porpoise on 06/04/2006 wrote: >Yes, the older ones had the photo and data on the inside of the back >cover. The new ones have the photo and data on the last page within the >passport and there are transparent sections on the page at strategic >points. Gosh, there's perception, I didn't realise those patterns were transparent. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 13:40:50 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Thu Apr 6 07:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > Skiwi on 06/04/2006 wrote: > >>> Repeated attacks on Americans that increasingly clearly are to do >>> with the RFID chips should show a problem. A pattern would emerge >>> eventually I'm sure. I don't suppose identity theft would be reason >>> enough for them to discontinue their use but if there's a huge >>> increase in it, or of people using info that could only have come >>> from a passport, maybe it'll give pause for thought. >> >> I was thinking more of a roadside bomb hooked to an RFID reader, 20' >> range, even a car moving at 30 mph would be vulnerable... > > Hmmm...smart bombs that target specific nationals, now that's an > unnerving thought. > It beats me why we all don't just go out and buy our 'own' RFID device, one with a greater range, less security, etc etc. Then when I fly to Iraq, I set it up as an Iraqi national, when I fly to OZ, I set it up as an Aussie National etc etc When I fly to the states I could set it up with 'Shrubs' ID code, but then I am probably more likely to get hassled that way. You could stick it on your watch so when you pass your passport to the immigration guy, he gets your 'fake' RFID details. (In jest of course). It won't be too long before barcodes are replaced by RFID's. Could you imagine the immigration statistics for US border entry in 2010. 1 million mexicans 2 million australian 4 million UK citizens 14 million cans of Heinze Baked Beans 400 Microwave Ovens 1 Copy of MS Vista (Beta - remember, its 2010 ) From dws at dealing-with-spam.info Thu Apr 6 14:55:02 2006 From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S) Date: Thu Apr 6 08:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote on Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:11:05 +0000 (UTC): > You don't loose out renewing them early, they cancel your old one and > add the difference to your new one. Not any more, they don't. Not unless the old one expires in nine months or less anyway: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/04/early_passport_renewal_blocked/ From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 14:08:26 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 08:10:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Canopus" wrote in message news:e12uc7$d2r$1@news.spamcop.net... > Porpoise on 06/04/2006 wrote: > >>Yes, the older ones had the photo and data on the inside of the back >>cover. The new ones have the photo and data on the last page within the >>passport and there are transparent sections on the page at strategic >>points. > > Gosh, there's perception, I didn't realise those patterns were > transparent. > Ah, well! I saw right through them...... ;-) From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 14:09:39 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 08:10:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979D4DDCFCAC9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was Sylvesterthekat ! >> >> are you sure those nasty fields aren't harming you? > > Dude - I've seen the ads! Magnets are good for you! I think it depends how strong the magnetic field is...... From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 09:09:48 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Apr 6 08:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Check Before You Try to Fly --- You May Be on the No-Fly List References: <1144176747.861661.239060@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > I wonder if, once Bush is out of office and replaced with someone > competent, people such as this guy will finally be taken off the 'no > fly' lists. If I was that guy I would be going to every tv station and every radio station I could get to, I would scream so bloody loud and inflame so many people that he would be publicly humiliated enough to take me off. He and his gang of thieves are already on the way out, it would be one more nail in the coffin for him to have the media get hold of yet another scandal - and a petty one at that. From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 09:29:56 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 08:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Check Before You Try to Fly --- You May Be on the No-Fly List References: <1144176747.861661.239060@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Heidi" | > I wonder if, once Bush is out of office and replaced with someone | > competent, people such as this guy will finally be taken off the 'no | > fly' lists. | | If I was that guy I would be going to every tv station and every radio | station I could get to, I would scream so bloody loud and inflame so many | people that he would be publicly humiliated enough to take me off. He and | his gang of thieves are already on the way out, it would be one more nail in | the coffin for him to have the media get hold of yet another scandal - and a | petty one at that. Based on postings on various net groups others have and to little avail. From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 09:34:52 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 08:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" | > | >> Removing their free will would be a violation of their free will... | > | > tough titties if they're committing evil acts! | > | | I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can | believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are | neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and thus | carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that are | easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of time | before the consequences are felt). Evil acts, like selfless acts can be observed regardless of who or what are given credit. As Flip Wilson in his Geraldine persona was known to say to Rev Leroy: 'The Devil Made Me Do It" From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 09:59:03 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:05:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e12mvo$999$1@news.spamcop.net... > Good and evil are human inventions. And 'conscience' is taught and learned, not inherent. Rather than "worship" some unknown, unseen, fabricated entity, why not practice personal responsibility for right and wrong? From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 10:01:05 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:05:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e132at$f9f$1@news.spamcop.net... > > As Flip Wilson in his Geraldine persona was known to say to Rev Leroy: 'The > Devil Made Me Do It" And that is a classic, (if not intended to be humorous) cop out to absolve one of personal responsibility for their own actions. If you don't believe in the devil, THEN who do you blame? From smjg_1998 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 6 15:41:00 2006 From: smjg_1998 at yahoo.com (Stewart Gordon) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: BE POLITICALLY CORRECT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: JohnL wrote: > HOW TO SPEAK ABOUT WOMEN AND BE POLITICALLY CORRECT: > > 1. She is not a "BABE" or a "CHICK" - She is a "BREASTED AMERICAN." I don't get this. How does calling everybody an American constitute political correctness? > 2. He is not a "BAD DANCER" ~ He is "OVERLYCAUCASIAN." Nor this. > 7. He does not act like a "TOTAL ASS" ~ He develops a case of RECTAL- > CRANIAL INVERSION." I never knew that donkeys had those organs the other way round. Stewart. -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/M d- s:-@ C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS- PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++++ h-- r-- !y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 10:52:21 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:55:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: nobody else has said it so i will References: <44342263.16671A91@spamcop.net> Message-ID: Kenneth Brody wrote: > indigo wrote: > > It's also pretty hard to campaign from the pokey.... > > Hey, dead people have won elections (and not just because the dead > people voted for them), so how hard could it be to campaign from > jail? While it may cut down on personal appearances, the rest > wouldn't change. Yeah, I've heard of that. Did you hear the news today that the repugnicans are passing a law gutting the 527's that put out all those anti-bush ads in the last election (and the Swift Boat guys too). Gee, think they're scared about the lobbying scandal any? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 10:53:22 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:55:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: nobody else has said it so i will References: <44342263.16671A91@spamcop.net> Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > In article , > "Frog Prince" wrote: > > > Mayor of DC ran as a convicted felon. > > More precisely, the former mayor of DC ran for city council after > serving time as a convicted felon. Just calling him a felon makes it easy on him......he got caught smoking crack with a crack ho! From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 10:54:09 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 09:55:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: nobody else has said it so i will References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "indigo" wrote in > news:e10e6g$qn4$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > > It's also pretty hard to campaign from the pokey.... > > > > > > > > I don't think he sees that as a likely scenario (jail, that is) He may not (cuz of his ego), but you bet your bippy that a lot of other repugnicans are worried about that scandal tainting them. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 10:59:55 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e10v7u$5d9$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > Hey, you ever used colloidal silver before? > > There is no documented evidence that it cures anything, and anything > that can turn me permanently blue, I'm not touching with a barge pole. > http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html You have to take massive amounts of silver for that to happen. > > > I got my blood test results, > > nada, zippo, no lymes, nothing popped up as abnormal. > > "Not abnormal" doesn't mean much - did you get copies of the tests? > Did you have stuff done at the rheumatologist, like a CRP? Yeah, but I'm not a doctor, they're meaningless to me since everything falls in the range of Normal. Oh, just got my thyroid antibodies results yesterday, they were negative. But somehow my triglycerides have zoomed to 600 in the last 3 months! My god, that's insane! > Self treat for what? It's supposed antibiotic properties if they > exist aren't worth the risks of what it could do to you. I googled quite a bit, didn't find many, if any, risks associated with normal intake of colloidal silver. And I do know that I have a recurring infection of something that Flagyl kills. From edb2000 at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 08:03:17 2006 From: edb2000 at spamcop.net (Don Wannit) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:05:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: BE POLITICALLY CORRECT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Stewart Gordon wrote: > JohnL wrote: > >> HOW TO SPEAK ABOUT WOMEN AND BE POLITICALLY CORRECT: >> 1. She is not a "BABE" or a "CHICK" - She is a "BREASTED AMERICAN." > > > I don't get this. How does calling everybody an American constitute > political correctness? Ah, the (in)famous case of the Berkeley lecturer talking about residents of Nigeria (I believe it was Nigeria, could have been another country in Africa). Student said something about the black people this-and-that. Lecturer in high dudgeon shouts that "They are *not* BLACK. They are African Americans!" Student says "But they're not Americans." Lecturer says "Never call someone Black. That's RACIST. Describe them as 'African American'." Feh. -- Don Wannit Logic-ist and proud of it. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 11:07:44 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > "Eponym" wrote in message > news:e1209r$sil$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > > > Hmmm...we make you eat? > > > > Hey, at least us men eat healthier with a woman around! :o) > > Nah! I think it's more a case of them making less effort to stay in > shape once they've "got" their man...... I vote for that one! From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 11:05:56 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:10:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e137bg$i7q$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I vote for that one! Doesn't apply to all of you with your beer guts, though, eh? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 11:14:12 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:15:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in > news:e0vpbn$e3l$1@news.spamcop.net: > > > > Just wondering because Harry Shearer uses that as a tagline for his > > Le Show radio show and he mentioned once that Santa Monica wasn't > > all that happy about him saying it every week. > > > > Don't know who he is. Yes, you do, you just don't realize it. He was in Spinal Tap. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 11:17:54 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:20:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: BE POLITICALLY CORRECT References: Message-ID: Don Wannit wrote: > > Ah, the (in)famous case of the Berkeley lecturer talking > about residents of Nigeria (I believe it was Nigeria, could have > been another country in Africa). Student said something about > the black people this-and-that. Lecturer in high dudgeon shouts > that "They are *not* BLACK. They are African Americans!" > > Student says "But they're not Americans." > > Lecturer says "Never call someone Black. That's RACIST. > Describe them as 'African American'." > > Feh. Heck, that happened just a few months ago during the French riots -- some American TV news anchors were referring to the Tunisian (?) migrant rioters as "african-americans"! From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 11:18:44 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:20:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e137bg$i7q$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > I vote for that one! > > Doesn't apply to all of you with your beer guts, though, eh? Don't drink beer so can't blame it on that. Don't have one in the first place anyway. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 11:25:11 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 10:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e136ss$hs8$1@news.spamcop.net... > > You have to take massive amounts of silver for that to happen. So what, the amounts in otc products vary greatly and isn't regulated, you don't know what you're getting - you could get ripped off or get sick - it's irreversible once it does happen, and why bother taking something that's never been proven to work? http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm Silver has no known function in the body. Silver is not an essential mineral supplement or a cure-all and should not be promoted as such. Claims that there can be a "deficiency" of silver in the body and that such a deficiency can lead to disease are unfounded. Claims made about the effectiveness of colloidal silver products for numerous diseases are unsupported scientifically. Colloidal silver products can have serious side effects (discussed further below). Laboratory analysis has shown that the amounts of silver in supplements vary greatly, which can pose risks to the consumer > Yeah, but I'm not a doctor, they're meaningless to me since everything falls > in the range of Normal. That's a cop out - just because you're not a doctor doesn't mean you can't learn what the tests mean and know your own levels. EDUCATE YOURSELF! If your CRP test shows "some" inflammation but not off the charts, it may be what they consider "normal", but it's not the whole story if it shows inflammation, there's something going on in your body. Oh, just got my thyroid antibodies results > yesterday, they were negative. That's not the whole story. What was your TSH, Free T3 and Free T4?? What was your Antibody level? Was it zero or was it "within a range"? Did you get a copy? I'm guessing no. But somehow my triglycerides have zoomed to > 600 in the last 3 months! My god, that's insane! "Causes of high triglyceride levels The number of triglycerides in the human body can rise to abnormally high levels when someone eats a diet high in carbohydrates (starches and sugars) and/or saturated fats, especially when that person is obese or rarely exercises. High triglyceride levels can also be caused by a number of medical conditions, such as: Diabetes Obesity Hypothyroidism, or a lack of thyroid hormone Kidney disease" This is exactly why you need to know your thyroid NUMBERS. You might be in a "normal range", but you still maybe elevated beyond what is optimal for wellbeing and that could cause a lot of problems including your joint problems. Doctors ONLY SEE A NORMAL RANGE. They do not think "OPTIMAL", that is why you need to educate yourself. A TSH of 5 is in the "normal" range, but it is by no means NORMAL. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 12:22:05 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:25:23 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > > "Causes of high triglyceride levels > The number of triglycerides in the human body can rise to abnormally > high levels when someone eats a diet high in carbohydrates (starches > and sugars) and/or saturated fats, especially when that person is > obese or rarely exercises. > High triglyceride levels can also be caused by a number of medical > conditions, such as: > Diabetes > Obesity > Hypothyroidism, or a lack of thyroid hormone > Kidney disease" What's the link for that info? From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 17:25:24 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:30:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: BE POLITICALLY CORRECT References: Message-ID: "Don Wannit" wrote in message news:e13732$i11$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Lecturer says "Never call someone Black. That's RACIST. > Describe them as 'African American'." > What? And calling them African American isn't racist????? If they were just called Americans, that would be nationalist. If they were just called African, that would be continentalist. Neither of which would actually describe the people concerned. However, if you describe the actual colour of the skin, you are just describing something you can see. Race, nationality or continent doesn't come into it. So if I see someone with pink, green ,brown, yellow or purple skin, I will describe it as such. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 17:27:36 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:30:15 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message news:e137ea$i89$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e137bg$i7q$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> I vote for that one! > > Doesn't apply to all of you with your beer guts, though, eh? Do you have only the one brush then? (The one coated with tar). From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 12:25:30 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:30:18 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13bmu$kir$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> What's the link for that info? > http://heart.healthcentersonline.com/cholesterol/triglycerides3.cfm From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 12:26:41 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:35:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e13c1i$kvj$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Do you have only the one brush then? (The one coated with tar). Just wait till I break out the feathers....... From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 12:31:51 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Indi, here's another one Message-ID: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroidism/a/cholesterol.htm Hypothyroidism is frequently associated with elevated levels of cholesterol, and in particular, triglyceride levels. Also, a specific form of high cholesterol that is resistant to cholesterol-lowering drugs can also be a symptom of hypothyroidism. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 12:38:16 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:45:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message news:e13cfd$lbi$1@news.spamcop.net... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/08/19/LV148057.DTL "There is a huge population of people out there, walking around, gaining weight, not feeling good, depressed -- and not being treated, or not being treated properly" said Mary Shomon, who was diagnosed with underactive thyroid in 1995 and is the author of "Living Well With Hypothyroidism: What Your Doctor Doesn't Tell You and What You Need to Know." She also runs a popular Web page about thyroid disease at About.com. Dr. Steven Langer, a Berkeley physician and author of "Solved: The Riddle of Illness," said many of the patients he sees have classic symptoms and a TSH level on the high end of normal, but their previous doctors told them it was all in their head. "What baffles me is why so many clinicians are willing to put people on mood-altering drugs, but not willing to give somebody the smallest dose of thyroid medication to see if it works," Langer said. "If they are going to respond to thyroid, it usually happens within weeks. It's virtually nontoxic, it's noninvasive and it's inexpensive." Recent studies have also shown that leaving thyroid disease untreated can have significant consequences, including elevated cholesterol levels and -- in pregnant women -- children born with lower IQ scores. Dr. David Cooper, director of endocrinology at Sinai Hospital in Baltimore and a professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, also argues for more liberal treatment of patients with hypothyroid symptoms, even if their TSH level is only somewhat elevated. A normal TSH level is usually defined as between .5 and 5.0. [OPTIMAL for most people is .5-1.5] "I can tell you there are people with TSH of 5 and you put them on medication and they feel better -- sometimes it's extremely dramatic," Cooper said. "As long as you don't over-treat, there's really no harm, other than the fact that it costs money, and it's a fairly cheap drug." A 20-year study of 2,800 people in Whickham, England, found that people who had TSH levels that were in the high-normal range frequently went on to develop overt hypothyroidism. Treating them early could ward off problems like depression and high cholesterol that sets in when the thyroid begins to slow down, Cooper said. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 17:43:05 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:45:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message news:e13c7n$l53$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Porpoise" wrote in message > news:e13c1i$kvj$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> >> Do you have only the one brush then? (The one coated with tar). > > Just wait till I break out the feathers....... > Yeah well, just make sure there's no H5N1 on them!!! From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 12:57:25 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 12:05:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" | > | > I vote for that one! | | Doesn't apply to all of you with your beer guts, though, eh? Like they say 'when you retired a tool you build a shed over it' From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 13:05:00 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 12:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" | | "Frog Prince" | > | > As Flip Wilson in his Geraldine persona was known to say to Rev Leroy: 'The | > Devil Made Me Do It" | | And that is a classic, (if not intended to be humorous) cop out to absolve one of | personal responsibility for their own actions. If you don't believe in the devil, | THEN who do you blame? If I do wrong the one who is to blame is ME! Who do you blame ... the guy down the road? According to Geraldine event the Devil has a purpose ... were it not for the Devil we would have a lot of unemployed preachers. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 13:42:17 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 12:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message > news:e13cfd$lbi$1@news.spamcop.net... > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/08/19/LV148057.DTL Thanks, need to show my doc this stuff. Something is horribly wrong when my triglycerides go from 300 to 600 in 3 months, he just told me to double my dose of niacin to 1000 mg/day, which causes me hot flashes (done it before and it still didn't budge my levels either). From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 13:45:44 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 12:50:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroidism/a/cholesterol.htm > > Hypothyroidism is frequently associated with elevated levels of > cholesterol, and in particular, triglyceride levels. Also, a specific > form of high cholesterol that is resistant to cholesterol-lowering > drugs can also be a symptom of hypothyroidism. I don't see that text in that link? That's important info. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 13:46:26 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 12:50:07 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Spamvireslayer wrote: > > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroidism/a/cholesterol.htm > > > > Hypothyroidism is frequently associated with elevated levels of > > cholesterol, and in particular, triglyceride levels. Also, a > > specific form of high cholesterol that is resistant to > > cholesterol-lowering drugs can also be a symptom of hypothyroidism. > > I don't see that text in that link? That's important info. Nevermind, it's the first damn sentence ;-) From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 14:29:20 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 13:35:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13gl3$nr5$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Nevermind, it's the first damn sentence ;-) I was just gonna say......so did you get a copy of your test results or not? Get one and I'll help you interpret it, god knows I've had enough practice. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 19:59:18 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 14:00:21 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Let me see if I get this right: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Sylvesterthekat wrote: >> "Mr K. Mean" wrote in >> news:e0vpbn$e3l$1@news.spamcop.net: >> >>> Just wondering because Harry Shearer uses that as a tagline for his >>> Le Show radio show and he mentioned once that Santa Monica wasn't >>> all that happy about him saying it every week. >>> >> Don't know who he is. > > Yes, you do, you just don't realize it. He was in Spinal Tap. He is also like 1/4 of the voices on the Simpsons. You can find his show off the kcrw.com website. It is on NPR stations and a bunch of other networks and also downloadable. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 19:59:44 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 14:00:25 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > Skiwi on 06/04/2006 wrote: > >>> Repeated attacks on Americans that increasingly clearly are to do >>> with the RFID chips should show a problem. A pattern would emerge >>> eventually I'm sure. I don't suppose identity theft would be reason >>> enough for them to discontinue their use but if there's a huge >>> increase in it, or of people using info that could only have come >>> from a passport, maybe it'll give pause for thought. >> >> I was thinking more of a roadside bomb hooked to an RFID reader, 20' >> range, even a car moving at 30 mph would be vulnerable... > > Hmmm...smart bombs that target specific nationals, now that's an > unnerving thought. Sharks with laser beams. Let's not get all super elaborate. Much easier and more reliable to just plant a simple stupider bomb where a lot of your specific target tend to be. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 20:07:47 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Thu Apr 6 14:10:27 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Canopus wrote: > Skiwi on 06/04/2006 wrote: > >>> Repeated attacks on Americans that increasingly clearly are to do >>> with the RFID chips should show a problem. A pattern would emerge >>> eventually I'm sure. I don't suppose identity theft would be reason >>> enough for them to discontinue their use but if there's a huge >>> increase in it, or of people using info that could only have come >>> from a passport, maybe it'll give pause for thought. >> >> I was thinking more of a roadside bomb hooked to an RFID reader, 20' >> range, even a car moving at 30 mph would be vulnerable... > > Hmmm...smart bombs that target specific nationals, now that's an > unnerving thought. > Add to that, there has been an awful lot of paranoia whipped up over these damn tags. Its not that much of a problem. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 20:09:25 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Thu Apr 6 14:10:30 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote: > Canopus wrote: >> Porpoise on 05/04/2006 wrote: >> >>>> No they don't. I just looked at my new passport and there's no tag >>>> in it. The only difference between this one and my old one issued >>>> 10 years ago is that the new one has my photo printed on it with an >>>> holograph overlay. >>>> >>> >>> And it's machine-readable..... >> >> Yep...and I've heard quite a few reports from people I know who had >> their application returned due to the photo being not up to scratch >> for machine readable due to them using a photo booth which doesn't >> always produce a good photo. I used a photography shop for it this >> time and each shot was checked until we got it right. >> > Talking of which, we just got back my 7 year old daughters UK passport > application for the 3rd time today, and all 3 applications were checked > by the Main Post Office to make sure they were OK before we submitted > them. (To be fair to the Passport Office, I complained the first time > they sent it back that I had it checked prior to sending and they waived > the fees, but still). > > Each time they have complained the photo had some flaw in it. Todays was > she was just slightly too far back from the camera. > > Pedantic isn't a word I would use, but I do have an image of some anal > re-tentative inspector who takes out his frustrations by kicking back > applications for fun. Either that or the system is automated and was > developed in (a) Redmond, or (b) Bangalore Sent off my boys passports on Monday, got them back today (all updated unlike my daughters). One of them has the RFID, the other doesn't. Must be using up old stock selectively. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 15:49:03 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 14:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13gd9$ni6$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Thanks, need to show my doc this stuff. Something is horribly wrong when my > triglycerides go from 300 to 600 in 3 months, he just told me to double my > dose of niacin to 1000 mg/day, which causes me hot flashes (done it before > and it still didn't budge my levels either). I can't say this enough - GET.....YOUR....TEST....RESULTS...IN....YOUR....HAND. Don't expect your doctors to be wasting a lot of time trying to find the root cause, they will happily just pass you a pill and say bye bye. You're going to have to start looking for your own answers here - if something isn't easily diagnosed with a test or a symptom, doctors will not be inclined to look outside the box. Been there, done that..... From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Thu Apr 6 20:57:51 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Porpoise on 06/04/2006 wrote: >>Gosh, there's perception, I didn't realise those patterns were >>transparent. >> > >Ah, well! I saw right through them...... ;-) Thanks for helping me see the light 8?) -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 22:03:18 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:05:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: bloody men, it's all your fault! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message > news:e13c7n$l53$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> "Porpoise" wrote in message >> news:e13c1i$kvj$1@news.spamcop.net... >>> >>> Do you have only the one brush then? (The one coated with tar). >> >> Just wait till I break out the feathers....... > > Yeah well, just make sure there's no H5N1 on them!!! Yeah fun, they found a case in Scotland now. From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 16:50:19 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:05:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: Still wondering why the administration has been pushing the "it's not a crime" slant rather than "we/he/they didn't do it." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060406/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:06:34 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:10:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e13gl3$nr5$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > Nevermind, it's the first damn sentence ;-) > > I was just gonna say......so did you get a copy of your test results > or not? Get one and I'll help you interpret it, god knows I've had > enough practice. How the hell could I have gotten them already?!? I'm picking them up tomorrow morning and dropping of some of the articles you pointed me to for my physician to read. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 22:07:50 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:10:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: New free user password? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message > news:Xns979CB845FB25Bsylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... >> "Mr K. Mean" wrote in news:e0vrh3$fk8$1 >> @news.spamcop.net: >> >>> But if you want the sweetest substance known to mankind, my guess is >>> that would have to be candy from India. I don't know how they do it. >> >> LOL, I can't say as I've ever had it. Sets the teeth on edge huh? > > More like... makes you wanna vomit...... yuk! It is like you take the sweetest thing you have ever eaten, then distill it down to a pile of concentrated powder carefully removing anything to dilute the sweetness, then press it together in a ball. And then put a few different colors in for variety. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:05:37 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:10:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13sca$v32$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> How the hell could I have gotten them already?!? I'm picking them up > tomorrow morning and dropping of some of the articles you pointed me to for > my physician to read. I thought you went last Thursday? Or was that your knee? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:09:01 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:10:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > No way it was me! It was "Porpoise" ! > > "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message > > news:Xns979D4DDCFCAC9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > >> Dude - I've seen the ads! Magnets are good for you! > > > > I think it depends how strong the magnetic field is...... > > No, man, they don't say that at all. You where magnets on your arms. > You put magnets on your back (are you listening Indi?). Heh. I actually used these little chinese accupressure magnets on my lower back many years ago. Actually seemed to work for a couple of weeks, but that may have been in my head....... From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Thu Apr 6 21:10:13 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: D-W-S on 06/04/2006 wrote: >>You don't loose out renewing them early, they cancel your old one and >>add the difference to your new one. > >Not any more, they don't. Not unless the old one expires in nine months >or less anyway: > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/04/early_passport_renewal_blocked/ Well what do you know, a double whammy! The gods must be smiling on me :) Meanwhile, one part of that story puzzles me: "Mysterious chip failures, in any event, may show some promise as a passive resistance route immediately prior to the introduction of the ID register. Obviously, if you discover your chip is broken, then as a conscientious citizen you should tell them and get it replaced..." How does one discover that? First time you find out is when the customs officer curses and starts doing it all by hand. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:07:45 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:15:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979DA2CB1F76CTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > No, man, they don't say that at all. You where magnets on your arms. You > put magnets on your back (are you listening Indi?). You wrap your pipes in > magnets. It's all good - or so they say. I got myself an ankle brace with hot/cold packs and magnets and it didn't seem to help me much. I have seen heat pictures (whatever they call them) of when they've used them on horses legs, and there is a big difference in circulation when they use magnets in the leg bandages, helps them heal faster, they say. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:11:50 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:15:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: Frog Prince wrote: > Still wondering why the administration has been pushing the "it's not > a crime" slant rather than "we/he/they didn't do it." > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060406/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak Before his indictment, Libby testified to the grand jury investigating the CIA leak that Cheney told him to pass on prewar intelligence on Iraq and that it was Bush who authorized the disclosure, the court papers say. According to the documents, the authorization led to the July 8, 2003, conversation between Libby and New York Times reporter Judith Miller. In that meeting, Libby made reference to the fact that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Libby's testimony also puts the president and the vice president in the awkward position of authorizing leaks — a practice both men have long said they abhor, so much so that the administration has put in motion criminal investigations to hunt down leakers. *** Gee, think they'll be able to find themselves? From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 22:12:31 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:15:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > No way it was me! It was "Porpoise" ! >> "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message >> news:Xns979D4DDCFCAC9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > >>> Dude - I've seen the ads! Magnets are good for you! >> I think it depends how strong the magnetic field is...... > > No, man, they don't say that at all. You where magnets on your arms. You > put magnets on your back (are you listening Indi?). You wrap your pipes in > magnets. It's all good - or so they say. You can buy them in shoes too. It cures everything. Or anything. Or something like that. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:13:06 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:20:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e13sng$v7v$1@news.spamcop.net... > > You can buy them in shoes too. It cures everything. Or anything. Or > something like that. Like it cures your hard drive of excess data if you get too close............ From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:14:46 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:20:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13sm8$v7j$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Libby's testimony also puts the president and the vice president in the > awkward position of authorizing leaks — a practice both men have long said > they abhor, so much so that the administration has put in motion criminal > investigations to hunt down leakers. > > *** Gee, think they'll be able to find themselves? ROFLMAO... I wish I could find the film clip on line of Bush saying he's gonna find the leakers after Plame was outed, I vividly remember the half assed smirk on his face, oh don't you know that one's gonna get some airplay now. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Thu Apr 6 22:18:46 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:20:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in > >> Apparently this fabric is the key >> http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html >> Wow, imagine, not just a tin foil hat but you could make a whole tin >> foil robe or something. > > hmmmm... not quite sure why I'd want a robe made out of it! I think you will find that part of the problem with tin foil hats is that they don't have complete coverage. The mind control rays still have a lot of surface area to work on. But if you totally wrap yourself in shielding, well, things are going to be different then. I bet you in Star Wars, when Obi Wan was walking around the Death Star and he had his hood on turning off the tractor beams, it was probably made out of stuff like that to keep out the bad stuff. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:26:41 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:30:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e13sca$v32$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > >> How the hell could I have gotten them already?!? I'm picking them > >> up > > tomorrow morning and dropping of some of the articles you pointed > > me to for my physician to read. > > I thought you went last Thursday? Or was that your knee? I got my blood test results from the infectious disease guy last week, I just got the cholesterol/thyroid antibodies info yesterday. Tuesday was when I had the left knee drained. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:27:23 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:30:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Mr K. Mean wrote: > Charles wrote: > > No way it was me! It was "Porpoise" ! > >> "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message > >> news:Xns979D4DDCFCAC9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > > >>> Dude - I've seen the ads! Magnets are good for you! > >> I think it depends how strong the magnetic field is...... > > > > No, man, they don't say that at all. You where magnets on your > > arms. You put magnets on your back (are you listening Indi?). You > > wrap your pipes in magnets. It's all good - or so they say. > > You can buy them in shoes too. It cures everything. Or anything. Or > something like that. So does a copper bracelet. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:28:40 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:30:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e13sm8$v7j$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > Libby's testimony also puts the president and the vice president in > > the awkward position of authorizing leaks — a practice both men > > have long said they abhor, so much so that the administration has > > put in motion criminal investigations to hunt down leakers. > > > > *** Gee, think they'll be able to find themselves? > > ROFLMAO... I wish I could find the film clip on line of Bush saying > he's gonna find the leakers after Plame was outed, I vividly remember > the half assed smirk on his face, oh don't you know that one's gonna > get some airplay now. Think John Stewart will have a field day with this or what? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:30:59 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:35:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > No way it was me! It was "indigo" ! > > > Heh. I actually used these little chinese accupressure magnets on my > > lower back many years ago. Actually seemed to work for a couple of > > weeks, but that may have been in my head....... > > Um. Yes. It was in your head. But if that helps, then, great. Same view I have of some parts of religion and praying.....doesn't matter how/why it works, if it makes you feel better who cares what the mechanism is? From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:28:38 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:35:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13ti2$vr1$1@news.spamcop.net... > > I got my blood test results from the infectious disease guy last week, I > just got the cholesterol/thyroid antibodies info yesterday. Tuesday was when > I had the left knee drained. Ah, so they thyroid test you should have a copy of already, right? HMM? From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 6 22:36:18 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:40:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13sgu$v49$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > Heh. I actually used these little chinese accupressure magnets on my lower > back many years ago. Actually seemed to work for a couple of weeks, but > that > may have been in my head....... Indeed..... The mind has far greater power than people give it credit for...... From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:34:11 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:40:16 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979DA7E48626TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > Right, well, so what are you all giving me flack out? I mean, Heidi is the > one who believes all of this baloney! Dude, seriously, next thing you know > you're going to tell me that ick-a-nausea is good for you. Listen up, > sports fans, no chance. They've done the studies and there's no way. And > this horse leg thing... Well, it doesn't sound like they've done studies - > it sounds like quackery. You can "show" whatever you want with thermal > imaging. Dude, I saw it with my own eyes.........then again it depends on who's paying for the studies.... From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:35:36 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:40:20 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979DA8007AAB3TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > > How close do you think your shoes need to be to your hard drive to have any > effect? Dunno, why don't you try it and let me know? From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:37:33 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:45:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13tlp$vrm$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Think John Stewart will have a field day with this or what? He never lets me down....heehee. Did you see Studs Terkel on earlier in the week, he's a hoot, telling the President to "BUGGER OFF!" From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:40:35 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Thu Apr 6 16:45:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Is there no end to Google's intrusion? Message-ID: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12188577/ Google aims to be able to track its users to within 100-200 feet of their location through new wireless networks in order to serve them with relevant advertising from local businesses. The leading internet search company, which depends on advertising for 99 per cent of its revenues, was selected on Wednesday by San Francisco as its preferred bidder to provide a basic free wi-fi internet service covering the entire city. It had partnered in its bid with the internet service provider Earthlink, which intends to charge a fee for a faster internet connection. Google and Earthlink will now enter final contract negotiations with the city. There were five other bidders including a non-profit group backed by Cisco Systems and IBM. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:55:56 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e13ti2$vr1$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > I got my blood test results from the infectious disease guy last > > week, I just got the cholesterol/thyroid antibodies info yesterday. > > Tuesday was when I had the left knee drained. > > Ah, so they thyroid test you should have a copy of already, right? > HMM? I give up. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:56:48 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:00:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e13tlp$vrm$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > > > > Think John Stewart will have a field day with this or what? > > He never lets me down....heehee. Did you see Studs Terkel on earlier > in the week, he's a hoot, telling the President to "BUGGER OFF!" Nope, haven't been able to stay awake that late for a couple of weeks now. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 22:58:22 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:00:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Charles wrote: >> No way it was me! It was "Porpoise" ! >>> "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message >>> news:Xns979D4DDCFCAC9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... >>>> Dude - I've seen the ads! Magnets are good for you! >>> I think it depends how strong the magnetic field is...... >> No, man, they don't say that at all. You where magnets on your arms. >> You put magnets on your back (are you listening Indi?). > > Heh. I actually used these little chinese accupressure magnets on my lower > back many years ago. Actually seemed to work for a couple of weeks, but that > may have been in my head....... > > IIRC it helps to increase blood flow to the area. If used in conjunction with a TENS unit (which helps to produce more endorphines it can work). I've used TENS quite a lot, but never magnets. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:58:08 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:00:17 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > No way it was me! It was "indigo" ! > > > Same view I have of some parts of religion and praying.....doesn't > > matter how/why it works, if it makes you feel better who cares what > > the mechanism is? > > Right, man, so I should just be allowed to practice my religion. Praying to the god of beer fermentation? From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 17:59:42 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:00:21 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Is there no end to Google's intrusion? References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12188577/ > Google aims to be able to track its users to within 100-200 feet of > their location through new wireless networks in order to serve them > with relevant advertising from local businesses. I knew their offer of free wireless to SF had to have a hook to it...... From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 23:01:37 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: indigo wrote: > Charles wrote: >> No way it was me! It was "indigo" ! >> >>> Heh. I actually used these little chinese accupressure magnets on my >>> lower back many years ago. Actually seemed to work for a couple of >>> weeks, but that may have been in my head....... >> Um. Yes. It was in your head. But if that helps, then, great. > > Same view I have of some parts of religion and praying.....doesn't matter > how/why it works, if it makes you feel better who cares what the mechanism > is? > > I had friend who had acupuncture for helping to quit smoking. The old guy left a needle in her ear covered with a band aid/plaster and told her to come back after a week. When she got a craving for a smoke, she was told to apply slight pressure to the needle area. When she went back saying how amazing it was because she had no cravings at all. He got her to remove the band aid to remove the needle herself, when she found there wasn't one... Not that the other acupuncture she had didn't help, but the extra psychological effect certainly helped her with 'mind over matter'. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 18:13:07 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Thu Apr 6 17:15:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > No way it was me! It was "indigo" ! > > Charles wrote: > > >> Right, man, so I should just be allowed to practice my religion. > > > > Praying to the god of beer fermentation? > > I wasn't going to say that - I was going to say something lascivious. To me? Why you big flirt, you..... From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 19:44:34 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 18:45:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e12mvo$999$1@news.spamcop.net... > Miss Betsy wrote: >> >> I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can >> believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are >> neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and >> thus carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that >> are easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of >> time before the consequences are felt). > > I don't understand. Are you saying that a lack of belief in god also > means that that person has absolutely no idea about right and wrong? Why > does it have to be a supernatural standard? If there wasn't a commandment > against killing, I still think that most people would agree it is wrong. > Good and evil are human inventions. As far as anybody knows, animals have > no concept of them. I would say that evil acts are harmful to the > community, to society, and that can be a basis for judging good and evil. If acts are harmful to the community, then they should be against the law. They are then illegal, not evil. What once was not good for the community may at another time be ok or not harmful so the laws may change. Evil and Good do not change because they are beyond human control. It depends on which culture and what time frame on what kind of killing is allowed. Capital Punishment is still the law in the US, for instance, though not in many parts of the world. During the Spanish Inquisition and during Roman times it was 'good' for the community to kill heretics; now it is not 'good' to kill heretics (though a good many very conservative religions may still want to and a good many people who have no religion, but don't like the very conservative also think that it would be a good idea to get rid of the very conservative.) Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 19:48:08 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 18:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-F0EFD6.09154506042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Mr K. Mean" wrote: > >> Are you saying that a lack of belief in god also >> means that that person has absolutely no idea about right and wrong? > > This is one of those prejudices against atheists that is so hard to > overcome, and why Atheists weren't allowed to testify as witnesses for > so long. There is no standard for an atheist except hir own standard. One atheist can opt for this 'right' or that 'wrong' and another atheist cancel that out. The only way atheists can agree on right and wrong is by making laws. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 19:52:49 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 18:55:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e12p23$aaq$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" wrote in message > news:e12lgb$8ec$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >>> >> >> I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can >> believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are >> neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and >> thus carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that >> are easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of >> time before the consequences are felt). >> > > You don't need to believe in some supernatural entity in order to have a > concept of good and evil - these concepts are generally covered by a > society's concept of what is considered to be "good" or "evil" and varies > in different cultures... > > I generally consider something like helping underprivileged kids to be > "good" and rape & pillage to be "bad" (I don't tend to actually use the > term"evil"). That has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in some > entity or other. And that is just my point. The reason helping underprivleged kids is good is because you can see their enjoyment of whatever you give them or because you think that by helping them now, they will avoid a bitter future of drugs, crime, poverty. Those are consequences. Rape and pillage are considered 'wrong' now because people see the consequences of individuals being hurt. At one time, they were not considered wrong, but the natural consequence of being a loser and the natural 'good' coming to the victor. (and there are still people who, without laws, would see it that way). Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 19:53:49 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 18:55:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e132at$f9f$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" > | > > | >> Removing their free will would be a violation of their free will... > | > > | > tough titties if they're committing evil acts! > | > > | > | I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power can > | believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are > | neutral as far as good or evil goes. An act may be against the law and > thus > | carry consequences. And some acts carry 'natural' consequences that are > | easy to see (some are not so easy to see because of the length of time > | before the consequences are felt). > > Evil acts, like selfless acts can be observed regardless of who or what > are > given credit. > > As Flip Wilson in his Geraldine persona was known to say to Rev Leroy: > 'The > Devil Made Me Do It" Only if you believe in the Devil - otherwise it is only because you don't like the results. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 20:03:39 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 19:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-ACC88F.09140006042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Miss Betsy" wrote: > >> If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are >> neutral as far as good or evil goes. > > Are you one of those people who think atheists cannot be moral? Why > does the standard have to be supernatural? Morality is changeable according to culture. Evil is always Evil; Good is always Good and is unchangeable - not something that humans can change so it is supernatural. (Perhaps I should look up the definitions, but I am defining 'evil' as always being wrong and 'good' as always being 'good') Actually, since atheists learn their morality in a culture which is religious, IMHO, their morality is derivative of the religious morality. There may be some atheists who think a little deeper, but just like so many churched people, IMHO, their reasoning is usually very shallow and kneejerk. (And I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular - this is a general statement) Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 20:08:13 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 19:10:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message news:e133gt$g0q$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message > news:e12mvo$999$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > Good and evil are human inventions. > > And 'conscience' is taught and learned, not inherent. Rather than > "worship" some > unknown, unseen, fabricated entity, why not practice personal > responsibility for > right and wrong? I just read about a study when 15 month children were found to 'help' someone who needed help while chimpanzees were not as likely to be helpful. The children didn't respond if the person threw something down, but did respond if they dropped it. There might be an inherent knowledge of good and evil that is shaped by learning the cultural rights and wrongs. Miss Betsy From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 20:26:10 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Apr 6 19:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Indi, here's another one References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e13v8t$19m$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > Ah, so they thyroid test you should have a copy of already, right? > > HMM? > > I give up. I guess that's a no? From edb2000 at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 18:18:40 2006 From: edb2000 at spamcop.net (Don Wannit) Date: Thu Apr 6 20:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: BE POLITICALLY CORRECT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "Don Wannit" wrote in message > news:e13732$i11$1@news.spamcop.net... > >> >> Lecturer says "Never call someone Black. That's RACIST. >> Describe them as 'African American'." >> > > What? And calling them African American isn't racist????? If they were > just called Americans, that would be nationalist. If they were just > called African, that would be continentalist. Neither of which would > actually describe the people concerned. However, if you describe the > actual colour of the skin, you are just describing something you can > see. Race, nationality or continent doesn't come into it. So if I see > someone with pink, green ,brown, yellow or purple skin, I will describe > it as such. There you go being logical, and not Politically Correct as seen in the People's Republic of Berkeley. :-} -- Don Wannit A paid SpamCop user since 1999 From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 21:12:22 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 20:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" | | "indigo" | > Think John Stewart will have a field day with this or what? | | He never lets me down....heehee. Did you see Studs Terkel on earlier in the week, | he's a hoot, telling the President to "BUGGER OFF!" Curious just what is the connotation of Bugger Off? From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 21:20:06 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 20:25:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Bush confronted by critic (today) Message-ID: http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/04/bush_confronted.html Bush confronted by critic President Bush was told today that he should be "ashamed" of his policies. The president responded to that rare challenge from a member of the public by telling booing audience members to let the man - who identified himself as Harry Taylor (photo) - continue to speak. "I feel like despite your rhetoric, that compassion and common sense have been left far behind during your administration," Taylor said, according to the Associated Press. "And I would hope from time to time that you have the humility and grace to be ashamed of yourself." Bush defended his so-called warrantless eavesdropping program, which Taylor had criticized. "You said would I apologize for that?" Bush told him. "The answer is absolutely not." The confrontation came during a forum in Charlotte, N.C. It was unusual because for most of his time in office the president has taken questions only from pre-screened members of the public at town halls and forums he has held. From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 21:18:48 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Apr 6 20:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Bush confronted by critic (today) References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e14bbr$8sg$2@news.spamcop.net... > http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/04/bush_confronted.html > > Bush confronted by critic > > President Bush was told today that he should be "ashamed" of his policies. > The president responded to that rare challenge from a member of the public > by telling booing audience members to let the man - who identified himself > as Harry Taylor (photo) - continue to speak. > > "I feel like despite your rhetoric, that compassion and common sense have > been left far behind during your administration," Taylor said, according to > the Associated Press. "And I would hope from time to time that you have the > humility and grace to be ashamed of yourself." LOL...I think there's one more name to add to the No Fly List..... From nobody at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 21:27:07 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Thu Apr 6 20:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e14bbr$8sg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Curious just what is the connotation of Bugger Off? Just what you'd think: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/b.htm bugger-off Verb. Get lost, clear off. Usually said in annoyance and in the imper. From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 21:42:20 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Thu Apr 6 20:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-DE22D8.19244906042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Miss Betsy" wrote: > >> The only way atheists can agree on right and wrong is by making laws. > > Just like the religious leaders did way back when... I think I read somewhere that at the novelty of the Jewish religion was that the laws were God-given instead of being the laws of particular ruler and that the 10 commandments are very similar to the laws of various rulers of that era. However, current theology (at least for some religions) is that God is Good and what is not of God is Evil. Right and wrong doesn't have to do with laws - though civil and church law should enforce good and deter/punish evil. I probably should do some research before I make many more statements. I just kind of jumped in because it seems silly to use good and evil without referring to some absolute. That doesn't mean that a churchgoer and an atheist can't agree on a manmade standard such as law. They may even have similar reasons because of the consequences of a particular act though the reasons would not be based on the same criterion. The primary difference being that the churchgoer bases his observations on the consequences being what is godlike and the atheist on hir own knowledge of what the consequences produce and why that is not beneficial for society or themselves (depending on whether they care about society - I would imagine some atheists have no particular interest in society except as it affects them). I guess, in my mind, one cannot believe in good and evil without believing in something greater than man and nature. Our judgment is so limited by our knowledge and our culture that we can't determine true right and wrong without depending on 'supernatural' knowledge. We can make a judgment on what we do know, but it may not be a correct judgment. Just as DDT was a 'godsend' to protect people from malaria by killing mosquitoes. Or take the welfare laws - does anyone know what is truly 'good' to do? (BTW, I read an article about a man who volunteers to engineer bridges in undeveloped places. In the middle of a list of problems of finding suitable local materials, dealing with ways to get steel cable to the site, training masons, and other technical problems that faced him was that in some areas the natives have gotten so many handouts from various sources that they wouldn't work to build the bridge. The US has now exported the 'welfare mentality'!!) Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Thu Apr 6 23:19:19 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Thu Apr 6 22:25:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" | (and there are still people who, without laws, would see it that way). And their names be Big Oil From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Fri Apr 7 08:25:27 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Fri Apr 7 02:30:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > > Rape and pillage are considered 'wrong' now because people see the > consequences of individuals being hurt. At one time, they were not > considered wrong, but the natural consequence of being a loser and the > natural 'good' coming to the victor. (and there are still people who, > without laws, would see it that way). So, is it ironic then that society is more "moral" than ever, not in a religious sense but in compassion and a greater understanding of the consequences of their actions on others? Or with greater mobility and global awareness, many see foreigners more as people? I find it encouraging that it took years for the general public to turn against Vietnam but it is incredible that both the first and second Gulf wars were protested by millions before they even started. Fireboming Dresden today wouldn't be cheered by the public which is why the military knows if it does something like that today (Falluja), that it should keep it quiet. From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Fri Apr 7 08:29:32 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Fri Apr 7 02:30:22 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > "David Dean" wrote in message > news:ozchzhq02-F0EFD6.09154506042006@frylock.local... >> In article , >> "Mr K. Mean" wrote: >> >>> Are you saying that a lack of belief in god also >>> means that that person has absolutely no idea about right and wrong? >> This is one of those prejudices against atheists that is so hard to >> overcome, and why Atheists weren't allowed to testify as witnesses for >> so long. > > There is no standard for an atheist except hir own standard. One atheist > can opt for this 'right' or that 'wrong' and another atheist cancel that > out. The only way atheists can agree on right and wrong is by making laws. Accepting a societal standard for your behavior or a supernatural definition, they are both external to yourself. Which one you accept is still a personal decision. And religious standards are as open to interpretation as any others. Thou shall not kill? Well, unless god tells you to burn your son on the altar, or if you are defending your country, or if you are stoning a sinner. Even with the most basic of the commandments, there seems to be no absolute. From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 05:55:58 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:00:43 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e150sd$j9o$1@news.spamcop.net... > Accepting a societal standard for your behavior or a supernatural > definition, they are both external to yourself. Which one you accept is > still a personal decision. But to me a societal standard defines right and wrong by laws which makes acts legal or illegal. Right is legal; wrong is illegal. A supernatural definition defines what is good and what is evil. Individual acts are based on how one decides is the best good in this situation. Laws are just guidelines. Keeping to the letter of the law does not mean one is doing good. > > And religious standards are as open to interpretation as any others. Thou > shall not kill? Well, unless god tells you to burn your son on the altar, > or if you are defending your country, or if you are stoning a sinner. > Even with the most basic of the commandments, there seems to be no > absolute. Religious laws are as open to interpretation as any others, that is true. However, Abraham didn't burn his son on the altar. And some Christians will tell you that Jesus never stoned anyone and did not defend himself, nor allow his disciples to defend him. Killing is always wrong. However, is it more wrong to allow someone to kill defenseless people or to kill the murderer? Is it more wrong to put yourself in a position where you know you will be killed by refusing to do something you consider wrong (such as killing in defense) or by saving your life by doing something you consider is wrong? I don't think anyone can answer those questions with certainty. However, I am sure that killing is evil, but only because I believe that God is good and does not kill. If I didn't, then killing could be sometimes right and sometimes wrong, sometimes good and sometimes evil. I could agree sometimes with the societal standard and sometimes disagree with it. When I make a decision to act, it is because I judge that I am doing more good than evil not choosing between good and evil, right and wrong, legal and illegal. Miss Betsy Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 05:58:15 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:01:15 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e150ko$j8n$1@news.spamcop.net... > Miss Betsy wrote: >> >> Rape and pillage are considered 'wrong' now because people see the >> consequences of individuals being hurt. At one time, they were not >> considered wrong, but the natural consequence of being a loser and the >> natural 'good' coming to the victor. (and there are still people who, >> without laws, would see it that way). > > So, is it ironic then that society is more "moral" than ever, not in a > religious sense but in compassion and a greater understanding of the > consequences of their actions on others? Or with greater mobility and > global awareness, many see foreigners more as people? > > I find it encouraging that it took years for the general public to turn > against Vietnam but it is incredible that both the first and second Gulf > wars were protested by millions before they even started. Fireboming > Dresden today wouldn't be cheered by the public which is why the military > knows if it does something like that today (Falluja), that it should keep > it quiet. I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of religion. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 05:59:26 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:01:20 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e14ihe$cg1$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" > | (and there are still people who, without laws, would see it that way). > > And their names be Big Oil > Big Oil must have more names than that. I was talking about people, individuals. Miss Betsy From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Fri Apr 7 11:29:35 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:30:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of > religion. I think society is maturing in spite of religion. I find the growing trends towards fundamentalism very troubling, whether that is Islam or Christianity or Judaism or whatever. It is a closing of the mind, a fortress mentality towards any beliefs but your own, or the ones you have been taught. I suppose that is fine if god handed you the exactly correct set of beliefs and you are positive that everybody else is wrong, but that's also the scary part of it, that people can believe so firmly that they are unmistaken about any of it. Thus we have a president in charge of billions of dollars of military equipment who seeks to bring about the Rapture. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Fri Apr 7 11:43:32 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Dean wrote: > In article , > "Frog Prince" wrote: > >> Curious just what is the connotation of Bugger Off? > > Buggering is sodomy. > But bugger off just means go away. (It doesn't stipulate which exit/entrance to take). From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Fri Apr 7 11:44:32 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:45:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > "David Dean" wrote in message > news:ozchzhq02-ACC88F.09140006042006@frylock.local... >> In article , >> "Miss Betsy" wrote: >> >>> If there is no supernatural standard, then acts are >>> neutral as far as good or evil goes. >> Are you one of those people who think atheists cannot be moral? Why >> does the standard have to be supernatural? > > Morality is changeable according to culture. Evil is always Evil; Good is > always Good and is unchangeable - not something that humans can change so it > is supernatural. (Perhaps I should look up the definitions, but I am > defining 'evil' as always being wrong and 'good' as always being 'good') > > Actually, since atheists learn their morality in a culture which is > religious, IMHO, their morality is derivative of the religious morality. > There may be some atheists who think a little deeper, but just like so many > churched people, IMHO, their reasoning is usually very shallow and kneejerk. > (And I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular - this is a general > statement) > > Miss Betsy > > > Your defining atheists as people who always live in a country where there also exists religion. But what about those countries where religion does not exist or is banned? I agree with most of what you say, apart from some in the last paragraph. I was thinking more of say China where religion in the sense of what we think of it is totally different, so maybe in their case there is a form of religion, but its not the same 'one good guy' / 'one bad guy' that we have. Despite the wests views on their communist/authoritarian/dictatorship principles, when you actually go to China and see Chinese people living in 'their' world, you'll find that you won't meet an unhappy person. They harbor no hatred, no jealousy, no fear until... The only time you will see jealousy/hatred/fear (evil per se), is when you meet those who have been touched by western ideals. Those that are exposed to religion/business dealings with the western world. Once they get their first Satelite TV or Internet access and they see what we have compared to what they have, they want part of it. Once they see us worshiping our god(s) they want to learn more about it and they want that too. They want to believe in our beliefs in order to distance themselves from their own 'perfect' world (note, in their governments eyes). Now I don't necessarily agree with 'the Chinese' way, because I agree in giving a person the right to choose, a right to think for themselves. If you know any Chinese people who can speak Mandarin. Ask them for the Chinese word for Stress (or Jealousy, or Religious Hatred). For sure I know there is NO word for stress, because it doesn't happen. They did not know of a condition called 'stress' until they came in to contact with the western world. The same goes for many other words that we in the west would associate with 'evil'. But again, I am not dispelling all of what you say (and have said), I am just interested to hear what you and others would think about that who have no exposure to religion as we have done in the west. People often state what we 'gain' from religion (i.e. a moral sense of right and wrong), but I can't help think what we have lost through religion, (the old one of how many wars could have been avoided if religion did not exist... "and there go the English on another Christian Crusade in the name of God"). From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Fri Apr 7 11:51:53 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Fri Apr 7 05:55:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris Wright wrote: > David Dean wrote: >> In article , >> "Frog Prince" wrote: >> >>> Curious just what is the connotation of Bugger Off? >> >> Buggering is sodomy. >> > But bugger off just means go away. > > (It doesn't stipulate which exit/entrance to take). I assume it is along the same lines as f**k off, but with a bit of sodomy mixed in. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 12:48:30 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 06:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" wrote in message news:e13vit$19o$2@news.spamcop.net... > > Not that the other acupuncture she had didn't help, but the extra > psychological effect certainly helped her with 'mind over matter'. The mind has a lot more power than most people realise. It just needs the right "intent" or "imagination" or "visualisation" or however you prefer to phrase it - (personally -, I prefer "intent" as it sounds less airy-fairy). From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 07:49:34 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Apr 7 06:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" < | "Frog Prince" < | > "Miss Betsy" | > | (and there are still people who, without laws, would see it that way). | > | > And their names be Big Oil | | Big Oil must have more names than that. I was talking about people, | individuals. Me thinking Bush and Co. for starters. but you are very correct their name are legion and include the insurance and drug industry From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 12:53:29 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 06:55:12 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e145j0$5m8$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > If acts are harmful to the community, then they should be against the law. > They are then illegal, not evil. The community generally decides (by consensus) what it considers to be "good" or "bad" and then produces the law accordingly. > What once was not good for the community may at another time be ok or not > harmful so the laws may change. Evil and Good do not change because they > are beyond human control. People decide by general consensus what is considered to be "good" or "evil" and it varies between different cultures. > It depends on which culture and what time frame on what kind of killing is > allowed. Exactly. > Capital Punishment is still the law in the US, for instance, though not in > many parts of the world. Quite. > During the Spanish Inquisition and during Roman times it was 'good' for > the community to kill heretics; now it is not 'good' to kill heretics > (though a good many very conservative religions may still want to and a > good many people who have no religion, but don't like the very > conservative also think that it would be a good idea to get rid of the > very conservative.) Quite. Like I said, it's society that decides what is considered to be "good" or "evil" by general consensus. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 12:56:21 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e145pm$5t7$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > There is no standard for an atheist except hir own standard. One atheist > can opt for this 'right' or that 'wrong' and another atheist cancel that > out. The only way atheists can agree on right and wrong is by making laws. Wrong assumption. Atheists will generally consider the same things good or bad as the society they live in has derived through general consensus - it does not require a religious belief in some supernatural being. You seem to be basing all your assumptions on what *your* religion tells you, as opposed to the actualities of fact. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 13:01:30 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e1462f$5uv$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Porpoise" wrote in message > news:e12p23$aaq$1@news.spamcop.net... >> >> I generally consider something like helping underprivileged kids to be >> "good" and rape & pillage to be "bad" (I don't tend to actually use the >> term"evil"). That has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in some >> entity or other. > > > Rape and pillage are considered 'wrong' now because people see the > consequences of individuals being hurt. At one time, they were not > considered wrong, but the natural consequence of being a loser and the > natural 'good' coming to the victor. (and there are still people who, > without laws, would see it that way). Exactly. And nowhere in the "ten commandments" does it say "thou shalt not rape & pillage". But these days, everyone would consider people doing that to be "evil". Without any religious content. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 13:01:46 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:05:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e14ihe$cg1$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" > | (and there are still people who, without laws, would see it that way). > > And their names be Big Oil Yeah! From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 13:03:32 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:05:20 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e159j4$nno$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of > religion. That's what religionists always say... From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 13:06:43 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: BE POLITICALLY CORRECT References: Message-ID: "Don Wannit" wrote in message news:e14b4j$8kh$1@news.spamcop.net... > > There you go being logical, and not Politically Correct as seen > in the People's Republic of Berkeley. :-} Yeah! And not a religion in sight! ;-) From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 08:27:22 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e15gcj$rfg$1@news.spamcop.net... > Quite. Like I said, it's society that decides what is considered to be > "good" or "evil" by general consensus. However, individuals make up society and it is the combination of many individual decisions that make the society standard. If one does not believe in the supernatural, then one cannot define 'good' and 'evil' - one can only judge what works well or doesn't work well for society. Not working well is not necessarily evil. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 08:28:11 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:30:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e15g74$red$1@news.spamcop.net... > Me thinking Bush and Co. for starters. but you are very correct their name > are legion and include the insurance and drug industry > Do you include your insurance agent's name in that list? Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 08:31:05 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:35:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e15be3$onr$1@news.spamcop.net... > Miss Betsy wrote: >> I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of >> religion. > > I think society is maturing in spite of religion. I find the growing > trends towards fundamentalism very troubling, whether that is Islam or > Christianity or Judaism or whatever. It is a closing of the mind, a > fortress mentality towards any beliefs but your own, or the ones you have > been taught. I suppose that is fine if god handed you the exactly correct > set of beliefs and you are positive that everybody else is wrong, but > that's also the scary part of it, that people can believe so firmly that > they are unmistaken about any of it. Thus we have a president in charge > of billions of dollars of military equipment who seeks to bring about the > Rapture. Again, I agree with you - the tendency towards fundamentalism is very troubling. However, I don't agree that letting society define good and evil is any better. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 08:38:11 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:40:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e15gvf$rrl$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" wrote in message > news:e159j4$nno$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > >> >> I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of >> religion. > > That's what religionists always say... It was because of these 'religionists' last century - Martin Luther King and Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II and I don't have time to think of others now, that more and more people are protesting war - not any secular leaders that I can think of. As my mother used to say, name three secular non-religiously affliated leaders who have protested war in general (not a specific war for specific reasons). Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 08:45:39 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 07:50:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e15grl$rpn$1@news.spamcop.net... > >>> I generally consider something like helping underprivileged kids to be >>> "good" and rape & pillage to be "bad" (I don't tend to actually use the >>> term"evil"). That has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in >>> some entity or other. >> > >> >> Rape and pillage are considered 'wrong' now because people see the >> consequences of individuals being hurt. At one time, they were not >> considered wrong, but the natural consequence of being a loser and the >> natural 'good' coming to the victor. (and there are still people who, >> without laws, would see it that way). > > Exactly. And nowhere in the "ten commandments" does it say "thou shalt not > rape & pillage". But these days, everyone would consider people doing that > to be "evil". Without any religious content. The 10 commandments certainly do cover 'rape and pillage'!! And, not everyone considers them evil today, just against Geneva Conventions - which, even some of those professing to be religionists, are apparently willing to ignore. My point is that 'rape and pillage' have always been and will always be 'evil' - no matter how many people think it is ok. But that is because I believe in something more than law. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 09:00:02 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 08:00:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" wrote in message news:e15c9c$p1d$2@news.spamcop.net... > Your defining atheists as people who always live in a country where there > also exists religion. But what about those countries where religion does > not exist or is banned? For a realistic answer, even when religion is banned, it persists. For a more theoretical answer, individuals can always listen to the Spirit. They may not be churchgoers, but they believe in 'good' and 'evil' not law. > People often state what we 'gain' from religion (i.e. a moral sense of > right and wrong), but I can't help think what we have lost through > religion, (the old one of how many wars could have been avoided if > religion did not exist... "and there go the English on another Christian > Crusade in the name of God"). But were all those losses in the name of religion or just using religion as a handy way to get power (or whatever is wanted - adventure, for instance)? Perhaps the wars would have happened anyway because of economic pressures. How much of the moral advances have been due to people who are professed atheists? Was slavery abolished because of preachers or a change in the economy? Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 09:05:42 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Fri Apr 7 08:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e15gi0$rle$1@news.spamcop.net... > > You seem to be basing all your assumptions on what *your* religion tells > you, as opposed to the actualities of fact. My assumptions about good and evil are, of course, based on what I believe. However, my observations on the possibility of differences of opinion among atheists are not 'assumptions' based on my beliefs. Atheists don't have to believe in the common viewpoint of society any more than they have to believe in religion. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 09:40:08 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Apr 7 08:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" | > | > I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of | > religion. | | That's what religionists always say... Society is maturing despite religion what I want to know is when will the religious mature. From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Fri Apr 7 15:00:05 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Fri Apr 7 10:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Boots Chemist Loyalty Scam Message-ID: Well, I've heard it all now. My mother received a voucher from the Boots loyalty scheme, 4 points per ?1 and the voucher was for ?35. Overjoyed she caught a bus into town to see if she could put it towards a camera. When she tried to redeem it she was told that she could only use it for a product of the same exact value. She could not purchase anything cheaper even by foregoing the change and she could not purchase anything dearer by making up the difference. There are no products for that value, it's common practice to not charge ?35 for something, but, charge ?34.95 or even ?34.99, there's nothing of exact round figures making everything invalid to purchase with the voucher. The shop assistant did admit that everyone had complained and that she thought the whole thing was stupid. She said that the idea was to save up your points until you reached the maximum of ?140 or whatever, but, you still run into the no round number problem making it pointless. Hoorah for Boots Loyalty program!!! -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From devnull at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 10:44:44 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince) Date: Fri Apr 7 10:05:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" | > Me thinking Bush and Co. for starters. but you are very correct their name | > are legion and include the insurance and drug industry | | Do you include your insurance agent's name in that list? The agent is not the problem the company however ... Recall anyone that believe you can't cheat an honest man has never had to deal with an insurance claim. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Fri Apr 7 17:04:07 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Fri Apr 7 11:05:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > "Chris Wright" wrote in message > news:e15c9c$p1d$2@news.spamcop.net... > >> Your defining atheists as people who always live in a country where there >> also exists religion. But what about those countries where religion does >> not exist or is banned? > > For a realistic answer, even when religion is banned, it persists. For a > more theoretical answer, individuals can always listen to the Spirit. They > may not be churchgoers, but they believe in 'good' and 'evil' not law. Well perhaps people have 'self belief' or 'belief from groups', or a sense of belonging to a group. But does right or wrong 'have' to come from religion? > > >> People often state what we 'gain' from religion (i.e. a moral sense of >> right and wrong), but I can't help think what we have lost through >> religion, (the old one of how many wars could have been avoided if >> religion did not exist... "and there go the English on another Christian >> Crusade in the name of God"). > > But were all those losses in the name of religion or just using religion as > a handy way to get power (or whatever is wanted - adventure, for instance)? > Perhaps the wars would have happened anyway because of economic pressures. > How much of the moral advances have been due to people who are professed > atheists? Was slavery abolished because of preachers or a change in the > economy? > Many wars were fought on the justification that 'they' were not 'Christians' therefore needed to be wiped from the face of the earth (I am talking about the crusades here not your catholic/protestant divide et al). Wars happen now because of greed or fear. Greed because they have something we want, or fear because we feel our way of life is threatened. Was not slavery abolished just because it was wrong? Regardless of where the pressure came from, it was plain wrong, but again born out of greed. You would think that in the 21st century where most of the planet are able to tolerate any color of skin because we are used to seeing the various multinationals around the world, but then we don't have a tolerance of religion. I don't care if my neighbors are black or white, but there are areas in the world where differences in religion divide communities. So I would suggest that religion is far from mature, or at a stage where tolerance is practiced as a majority, rather than a minority. I don't see it maturing any time soon either, as long as we always will have the 'my god is the only god' brigade. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 13:27:23 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 12:30:11 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Ping Heidi Message-ID: Thyroid results TSH = 1.45 AV = .350 - 5.5 T4 = 8.9 AV = 4.5 - 12.0 T3 = 147 AV = 85 - 205 Rheumatoligy Results: Antinuclear Antibodies = 55, AV = 0 - 99 C-Reactive Protein = 1.3, AV = 0 - 4.9 Sedementation Rate-Westergen = 1, AV = 0-20 Doc says the rheumy results mean I don't have arthritic condition because my sedementation rate is almost non-existent (if I'm repeating him correctly). All organism/parasite results were negative, and I had my samples taken in the midst of one of my "attacks". He thinks I may be suffering intermittent diviticurlitus (sp?), Flagyl is used to treat that, and my GI symptoms always clear up with the flagyl routine. CT scan showed mild inflammation of the colon. As far as my aches and pains, well.....he basically thinks I'm just getting old and my body can't handle the kind of physical stresses it used to (basketball being one of the hardest sports on the knees). I'm stuck in this rut where I feel like crap and my joints/muscles always hurt so I don't feel like exercising, but that's a tumbling snowball -- the worse you feel the less active you want to be, but you can't get better unless you become more active. He wants me to do a low impact physical rehab, but dammit I HATE swimming! And anxiety/stress can also be contributing and/or directly causing my symptoms, and I'll admit I've had a lot of stress at work lately. And my insomnia is caused by me not being able to "shut down" my brain at night (stress), I typically lay in bed going over what happened that day, what I'm going to do tomorrow, etc., I just can't stop thinking and relax enough to fall asleep. On bad nights I've had to take up to 3 tabs of Lunesta! (nights I consumed no alcohol). Oh, and as far as my triglycerides go, he thinks I should give up alcohol entirely for 3 months to see how that affects my levels (I talked to him about the hypothyroid link and he said my numbers and ratios indicate no thyroid problem). I know that's probably a good idea, but sheesh.......how the heck am I going to relax when I come home from a terrible day at work? On normal days, not so big a problem....but what about the days I'm all wound up, like the other day when I jokingly said I wanted that woman at work strangled because she was driving me insane? One strong cocktail later I had forgotten all about her that night after I got home! It's such a simple solution to stressful times....but it may be contributing to some of my health problems, I have to face up to that :-( And I need to figure out how to handle stress better without chemical remedies. Anyone got any advice on THAT one? I think I am definitely going to go see that accupuncurist now, maybe she can help. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 19:10:59 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 13:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e15ius$t7e$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > It was because of these 'religionists' last century - Martin Luther King > and Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II and I don't have time to > think of others now, that more and more people are protesting war - not > any secular leaders that I can think of. If you really think that then you truly are lost...... The reason more and more people (note, I say people - not leaders) are protesting war, is because of the modern instant news society we live in allowing everyone to see the realities of war live in their own living rooms > > As my mother used to say, name three secular non-religiously affliated > leaders who have protested war in general (not a specific war for specific > reasons). Irrelevant. Each country has but one leader - and millions of people. It's the people that count. From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 19:15:49 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 13:20:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e15jcs$tg3$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > My point is that 'rape and pillage' have always been and will always be > 'evil' - no matter how many people think it is ok. But that is because I > believe in something more than law. > And my point is that whether it is law or not isn't entirely relevant - it's what most people (whether religious or not) consider (through genral consensus) is "good" or "evil" that matters. And that has no bearing on whether or not they believe in any supernatural entity (in spite of what the religionists would have everyone toe their particular religious dogmatic line). From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 19:25:41 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 13:30:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Miss Betsy" wrote in message news:e15kie$ucg$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Porpoise" wrote in message > news:e15gi0$rle$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > >> You seem to be basing all your assumptions on what *your* religion tells >> you, as opposed to the actualities of fact. > > My assumptions about good and evil are, of course, based on what I > believe. However, my observations on the possibility of differences of > opinion among atheists are not 'assumptions' based on my beliefs. The only difference between religionists and athiests is that athiests don't believe in the supernatural being scenario - they still have the same concepts of good and bad. > > Atheists don't have to believe in the common viewpoint of society any more > than they have to believe in religion. You see, there you go again - classifying athiests as some sort of anti-goods. The common viewpoint of society vis-a-vis good and bad is not the sole domain of the religionists. They do believe in the common viewpoint of society - except for the supernatural being bit. You're trying to paint them as something they're not, just to fit your religious indoctrination. Just as religionists do with other religions. Whereas athiests just get on with the realities of life without attacking those of whatever religious indoctrination - unless and until the religionists get so zealous they start attacking others beliefs.... From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 19:26:10 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 13:30:13 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e15ndf$vmb$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Porpoise" > | > > | > I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of > | > religion. > | > | That's what religionists always say... > > Society is maturing despite religion what I want to know is when will the > religious mature. Quite so! From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 7 19:27:11 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Fri Apr 7 13:30:19 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: This thing gets better and better References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-2D9A7B.09224207042006@frylock.local... > In article , > Chris Wright wrote: > >> > Buggering is sodomy. >> > >> But bugger off just means go away. > > Well yes, but I was trying to show that bugger off is a stronger term > than buzz off, but weaker than fuck off. They all mean go away. So does intercourse off....... or, go forth and multiply.... From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 14:29:07 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi) Date: Fri Apr 7 13:40:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e163tc$7ku$1@news.spamcop.net... > Thyroid results > TSH = 1.45 AV = .350 - 5.5 > T4 = 8.9 AV = 4.5 - 12.0 > T3 = 147 AV = 85 - 205 If you go by this: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/newsinfo/l/bltest_values.htm Those look pretty good except the T3 might be a little low, the closer you are to the upper end of the range, the better you'll feel, T3 is the "energy" hormone, so not enough of it and you feel really tired. I always feel best when T3 & T4 are just outside the "normal" range, what they call "too high", and for liability's sake they don't want me outside the range, so I try to skew my test results so I'm inside the range when I have my bloodwork done. I don't think I should have to feel like crap just to so their asses are covered. What's missing and IMO most important is the test for Autoimmune antibodies, and if you read the list of symptoms that could be caused by autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) you might see a lot familiar. http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basicinformation/l/aathyroid101_b.htm Sometimes they don't test for that unless your TSH is way high, but mine never went outside the normal range, and still my antibodies were off the charts, so it's not the same for everyone and to rule out all the joint inflammation and stuff, I would ask to be tested for autoimmune antibodies. > > Rheumatoligy Results: > Antinuclear Antibodies = 55, AV = 0 - 99 > C-Reactive Protein = 1.3, AV = 0 - 4.9 > Sedementation Rate-Westergen = 1, AV = 0-20 The antinuclear antibodies I'm not sure of, IIRC it is not normal to have antibodies , and you're halfway up the range. Did you ask about that? http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003535.htm "Usually, there is no detectable ANA in the blood (negative test). Sometimes, however, people without any specific disease may have low levels of ANA for no apparent reason." http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ana/test.html The CRP and Sed rate are indicators of inflammation or infection - you don't have any, I'd still want to get tested for Hashimoto's autoimmune antibodies. > > Doc says the rheumy results mean I don't have arthritic condition because my > sedementation rate is almost non-existent (if I'm repeating him correctly). > All organism/parasite results were negative, and I had my samples taken in > the midst of one of my "attacks". He thinks I may be suffering intermittent > diviticurlitus (sp?), Flagyl is used to treat that, and my GI symptoms > always clear up with the flagyl routine. CT scan showed mild inflammation of > the colon. IBS is one of the symptoms of Hashimoto's btw...... I gotta run...back later.... From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com Fri Apr 7 20:01:35 2006 From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean) Date: Fri Apr 7 14:05:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "Miss Betsy" wrote in message >> >> It was because of these 'religionists' last century - Martin Luther >> King and Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II and I don't have >> time to think of others now, that more and more people are protesting >> war - not any secular leaders that I can think of. > > If you really think that then you truly are lost...... The reason more > and more people (note, I say people - not leaders) are protesting war, > is because of the modern instant news society we live in allowing > everyone to see the realities of war live in their own living rooms I was going to say that the Holocaust and the tv coverage of Vietnam probably had a whole lot to do with it too. And inexpensive international travel and probably the internet making the world a smaller place. >> As my mother used to say, name three secular non-religiously affliated >> leaders who have protested war in general (not a specific war for >> specific reasons). > > Irrelevant. Each country has but one leader - and millions of people. > It's the people that count. Ok, so a quick web search for Vietnam protesters comes up with Bertrand Russell (set up the International War Crimes Tribunal) who is rather unreligious. I wouldn't consider a bunch of the musicians who protested in the 60s, like the Beatles, various folk singers, etc, to be affiliated with religion. Some of them might be religious but that wasn't their main point. I don't believe that the Students for a Democratic Society had any particular religious affiliation, so like Tom Hayden, and whoever else. Or anybody from the Black Power movement like Stokely Carmichael. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 15:05:36 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 14:10:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Heidi wrote: > > If you go by this: > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/newsinfo/l/bltest_values.htm > Those look pretty good except the T3 might be a little low, the > closer you are to the upper end of the range, the better you'll feel, > T3 is the "energy" hormone, so not enough of it and you feel really > tired. He started me on a B-12 complex over a month ago and I much more energy it seems, my main "energy" problem is that some mornings I feel so sleepy and tired I just don't want to/can't get out of bed. Once I'm up and moving, I really feel pretty good energy wise now. So the fatigue issue appears to be gone. > > The antinuclear antibodies I'm not sure of, IIRC it is not normal to > have antibodies , and you're halfway up the range. Did you ask about > that? http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003535.htm > "Usually, there is no detectable ANA in the blood (negative test). > Sometimes, however, people without any specific disease may have low > levels of ANA for no apparent reason." He did talk about that, but other blood tests did not indicate lupus or any of the other diseases that ANA levels might indicate. So the ANA levels being a problem are not supported by my other results, according to him (he mentioned systemic sclerosis too, said I don't have that). This guy spent almost an hour with me going over everything, he was very good about explaining things and answering my questions -- he wasn't one of those snob doctors. > > http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ana/test.html > > The CRP and Sed rate are indicators of inflammation or infection - > you don't have any, I'd still want to get tested for Hashimoto's > autoimmune antibodies. > > > > Doc says the rheumy results mean I don't have arthritic condition > > because my sedementation rate is almost non-existent (if I'm > > repeating him correctly). All organism/parasite results were > > negative, and I had my samples taken in the midst of one of my > > "attacks". He thinks I may be suffering intermittent diviticurlitus > > (sp?), Flagyl is used to treat that, and my GI symptoms always > > clear up with the flagyl routine. CT scan showed mild inflammation > > of the colon. > > IBS is one of the symptoms of Hashimoto's btw...... I've been taking zantac before I go to bed every night too now, haven't had a GI "attack" since I started doing that, meaning no IBS. He did mention that I may have been suffering from IBS driven mainly by stress/anxiety. And based on the results I've felt, the zantac has prevented reoccurances of it. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 15:19:50 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 14:25:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e163tc$7ku$1@news.spamcop.net... > diviticurlitus (sp?), Flagyl is used to treat that, and my GI symptoms > always clear up with the flagyl routine. CT scan showed mild inflammation of > the colon. It would be inflamed if you had it done mid attack, doesn't mean they know what's causing it. > > As far as my aches and pains, well.....he basically thinks I'm just getting > old and my body can't handle the kind of physical stresses it used to > (basketball being one of the hardest sports on the knees). That's a convenient excuse and that's why I said you were going to have to look for answers yourself, they're VERY quick to dismiss something they can't find a quick answer to. Might be age, but it strikes me as very weird that your knees are suddenly filled with fluid so much that they have to be drained - that's not normal - did your tests show any arthritic changes? Basketball isn't THAT high impact, is it? Not like you were running on pavement anyway. I'm stuck in this > rut where I feel like crap and my joints/muscles always hurt so I don't feel > like exercising, but that's a tumbling snowball -- the worse you feel the > less active you want to be, but you can't get better unless you become more > active. He wants me to do a low impact physical rehab, but dammit I HATE > swimming! Welcome to my world - I'd tell you to go get tested for fibromyalgia but it's kind of a pointless exercise since some rheumy's don't believe it exists, there's no definitive test, and no treatment except tricylcic antidepressants for sleep (nonrestorative sleep, not being able to get or stay asleep, is part of Hashi's and fibro), and pain meds, which do little or nothing for me, except narcotics which no one will give me. I've been using the elliptical trainer at the gym, and that's low impact, actually pretty comfortable and I get a really good aerobic workout without pounding on my joints. I HATE swimming, so that's a no go for me too. And anxiety/stress can also be contributing and/or directly > causing my symptoms, and I'll admit I've had a lot of stress at work lately. > And my insomnia is caused by me not being able to "shut down" my brain at > night (stress), I typically lay in bed going over what happened that day, > what I'm going to do tomorrow, etc., I just can't stop thinking and relax > enough to fall asleep. On bad nights I've had to take up to 3 tabs of > Lunesta! (nights I consumed no alcohol). Might be something in the air, all of a sudden the Trazodone I take for sleep isn't working, so I asked for Ambien CR. THey told me the CR is not much different and way more expensive, so I got the regular stuff. That 10 mg takes an hour to work and keeps me asleep for a whopping 5 hours. So that's five nights now I've had less than six hours sleep. GRR. Tonight I have an appointment with my stash of percocet.... Has anyone ever tested you for a sleep disorder, I mean like going to a sleep lab? > > Oh, and as far as my triglycerides go, he thinks I should give up alcohol > entirely for 3 months to see how that affects my levels (I talked to him > about the hypothyroid link and he said my numbers and ratios indicate no > thyroid problem). Which is interesting since he doesn't have a complete picture, you weren't tested for autoimmune antibodies, and one of the symptoms of Hashi's is HIGH CHOLESTEROL. Not for everyone, I've never had bowel problems which are common or high cholesterol, but I did have EXTREME fatigue, muscle and joint aches, etc. It's not the same for everyone, but your joint symptoms just scream 'autoimmune' to me. I know that's probably a good idea, but sheesh.......how > the heck am I going to relax when I come home from a terrible day at work? > On normal days, not so big a problem....but what about the days I'm all > wound up, like the other day when I jokingly said I wanted that woman at > work strangled because she was driving me insane? One strong cocktail later > I had forgotten all about her that night after I got home! It's such a > simple solution to stressful times....but it may be contributing to some of > my health problems, I have to face up to that :-( And I need to figure out > how to handle stress better without chemical remedies. Anyone got any advice > on THAT one? Yoga? I think I am definitely going to go see that accupuncurist now, > maybe she can help. > I could be wrong but I highly doubt a couple of drinks is going to screw up your liver that badly. Given your father's thyroid history, and all the other symptoms, I would call back and ask for a test for autoimmune thyroid antibodies, ie Hashimotos. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 15:35:31 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 14:40:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e169lh$bod$1@news.spamcop.net... > > He started me on a B-12 complex over a month ago and I much more energy it > seems, my main "energy" problem is that some mornings I feel so sleepy and > tired I just don't want to/can't get out of bed. Once I'm up and moving, I > really feel pretty good energy wise now. So the fatigue issue appears to be > gone. The feeling tired in the morning is the indicator of 'nonrestorative sleep', meaning you're not getting enough deep sleep to feel rested. Alcohol at night disrupts sleep too. You might have a serotonin problem or you might have sleep apnea that keeps waking you - has anyone mentioned that? > > He did talk about that, but other blood tests did not indicate lupus or any > of the other diseases that ANA levels might indicate. So the ANA levels > being a problem are not supported by my other results, according to him (he > mentioned systemic sclerosis too, said I don't have that). But did he look for any other reason for them, or did he just dismiss the test results? They're THERE, something's causing it. This guy spent > almost an hour with me going over everything, he was very good about > explaining things and answering my questions -- he wasn't one of those snob > doctors. Well, it seems logical that if you have abnormal antibodies of one sort, you may well have antibodies of the other kind that you weren't tested for. I would defintitely ask that he test you for autoimmune antibodies. OR...take your test and go see an endocrinologist from that Top Docs list for a "second opinion" and request the antibody test. Specialists have a different set of things they look for, with your joint pain and swelling I would not let them slap "old age" on me without getting a second opinion, because I think that's bullshit. ANA's halfway up the range when "none" is considered normal would wig me out. Those are abnormal results you have there, whether they're in the "range" or not. > I've been taking zantac before I go to bed every night too now, haven't had > a GI "attack" since I started doing that, meaning no IBS. He did mention > that I may have been suffering from IBS driven mainly by stress/anxiety. And > based on the results I've felt, the zantac has prevented reoccurances of it. It's easy to say "it's just stress", if that's what you feel it is, then fine, but if you don't feel that's a plausible explanation, then keep looking. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 15:58:05 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:00:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: Might be age, but it > strikes me as very weird that your knees are suddenly filled with > fluid so much that they have to be drained - that's not normal - did > your tests show any arthritic changes? Basketball isn't THAT high > impact, is it? Not like you were running on pavement anyway. Yes, it is. It's probably the second worst sport on the knees except for playing soccer or football on astroturf. Besides the pounding from running and jumping (there's concrete under the hardwood floor), the side loading from cutting and playing defense is huge. And don't forget I went from being a couch potato to playing full court basketball without any real form of exercise in between. The last time I had "run" was from softball season last summer, about 5 months previously. And that was pretty much straight line running. When I first started playing b-ball in January I was so out of shape that all I could do was jog up and down the court, I wasn't playing much defense or driving to the basket. As I got back into shape and really started playing like normal, that is when my knees swelled up. > > Welcome to my world - I'd tell you to go get tested for fibromyalgia > but it's kind of a pointless exercise since some rheumy's don't > believe it exists, there's no definitive test, He did mention that, and like you said there's no test for it. > > Might be something in the air, all of a sudden the Trazodone I take > for sleep isn't working, so I asked for Ambien CR. THey told me the > CR is not much different and way more expensive, so I got the regular > stuff. That 10 mg takes an hour to work and keeps me asleep for a > whopping 5 hours. So that's five nights now I've had less than six > hours sleep. GRR. Tonight I have an appointment with my stash of > percocet.... Has anyone ever tested you for a sleep disorder, I mean > like going to a sleep lab? I usually sleep very well, I don't wake up in the middle of the night very often, I mean it's really, really rare. On 'good' days I'll wake up about 1/2 -1 hour before the alarm goes off. On 'bad' days I wake up to the alarm. I think I've noticed a subtle difference in just the few days since we've switched to DS, have sun light in my bedroom in the morning is starting to help wake me up. > > > > Oh, and as far as my triglycerides go, he thinks I should give up > > alcohol entirely for 3 months to see how that affects my levels (I > > talked to him about the hypothyroid link and he said my numbers and > > ratios indicate no thyroid problem). > > Which is interesting since he doesn't have a complete picture, you > weren't tested for autoimmune antibodies, and one of the symptoms of > Hashi's is HIGH CHOLESTEROL. What is the official test name for those antibodies? I see something called "Anti-dsDNA Antibodies", my level is 10, normal is 0-99. > > > I could be wrong but I highly doubt a couple of drinks is going to > screw up your liver that badly. Given your father's thyroid history, > and all the other symptoms, I would call back and ask for a test for > autoimmune thyroid antibodies, ie Hashimotos. Wait, I found another test result, this is from my personal doc, the test he ran when I asked to be checked for thyroid antibodies last week: Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab, my value < 10, AV = 0 - 34 From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 15:55:19 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:00:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e169lh$bod$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > He did talk about that, but other blood tests did not indicate lupus or any > of the other diseases that ANA levels might indicate. So the ANA levels > being a problem are not supported by my other results, according to him (he > mentioned systemic sclerosis too, said I don't have that). This guy spent > almost an hour with me going over everything, he was very good about > explaining things and answering my questions -- he wasn't one of those snob > doctors. http://www.webmd.com/hw/lab_tests/hw2297.asp "A test for antinuclear antibodies (ANA) is done to help diagnose conditions that include: Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). Rheumatoid arthritis Sjögren's syndrome. Scleroderma. Hashimoto's thyroid disease. A reaction to a medication. " The fact that you have ANA's could indicate Hashi's, even without that specific antibody test..... http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ana/faq.html The ANA test looks at the concentration of antinuclear antibodies in a person’s blood. A positive result means that you have a higher than “normal” concentration of these antibodies. This is one of the tools in diagnosing lupus as well as several other autoimmune diseases, so a positive result may be related to lupus or another disease. Or, you may simply have a higher than normal concentration of these autoantibodies just as some people’s normal body temperature is higher or lower than 98.6°. Even among people with lupus, these results can vary widely – one person can be in remission at a certain level of ANA while another can be extremely ill at the same level. Interpreting what these results mean for you is the work of your doctor. And, your doctor may need to compare your test results as well as the severity of your symptoms over a period of time in order to make a definitive diagnosis. This additional time may also allow your doctor the opportunity to eliminate other possible causes for your symptoms. http://www.jrheum.com/abstracts/abstracts03/736.html Conclusion. Patients tended to remain ANA positive on repeat testing. Three out of 53 patients had developed CTD, reflecting the more sensitive but less specific nature of ANA testing. Another common condition associated with ANA positivity was hypothyroidism. Continued longterm followup with larger cohorts is needed. (J Rheumatol 2003;30:736-9) From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 16:13:12 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > > The feeling tired in the morning is the indicator of 'nonrestorative > sleep', meaning you're not getting enough deep sleep to feel rested. > Alcohol at night disrupts sleep too. You might have a serotonin > problem or you might have sleep apnea that keeps waking you - has > anyone mentioned that? Actually somebody did. The last girl I dated said I was thrashing around in my sleep the one and only time I spent the night at her house. She said she thought I was having siezures or something, but she told me this right after I broke it off with her so I just blew it off (I only had one drink that night she was talking about). I *have* noticed that some nights the second pillow on my bed is laying on the floor on the other side of the bed, and some on nights I wake up in pretty much the position I fell asleep in -- covers are all in the same place (not flung about), and the other pillow is still on the bed. I don't snore, so I think sleep apnea is out. But I've had plenty of girlfriends over the years, no one has ever said anything to me about this kind of behavior, so if it's real it's new. Maybe I should start a log of how I feel each morning, what did I eat/drink the night before, and what condition the bed is in when I wake up? I don't see how this is tied into my aches and pains though. > > Well, it seems logical that if you have abnormal antibodies of one > sort, you may well have antibodies of the other kind that you weren't > tested for. I would defintitely ask that he test you for autoimmune > antibodies. See my other post, I listed them. > > It's easy to say "it's just stress", if that's what you feel it is, > then fine, but if you don't feel that's a plausible explanation, then > keep looking. The IBS, on occasian, I definitely know was/is stress related. I can feel the acid rush into my stomach along with a burst of adrenalin when I'm thinking about something that upsets me. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 16:14:12 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e16cnu$dn4$1@news.spamcop.net... > As I got back into shape and really > started playing like normal, that is when my knees swelled up. Do you think it's a plausible explanation? > Wait, I found another test result, this is from my personal doc, the test he > ran when I asked to be checked for thyroid antibodies last week: > > Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab, my value < 10, AV = 0 - 34 That's it - if it's under ten, it's probably not bothering you, but like the other I don't think any are "normal", so it might be something to watch in the future. It's weird about the ANA though. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 16:35:16 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:40:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > > http://www.webmd.com/hw/lab_tests/hw2297.asp > > "A test for antinuclear antibodies (ANA) is done to help diagnose > conditions that include: > > Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). > Rheumatoid arthritis > Sjögren's syndrome. > Scleroderma. > Hashimoto's thyroid disease. > A reaction to a medication. " > > The fact that you have ANA's could indicate Hashi's, even without > that specific antibody test..... > I looked at the test report more closely, for ANA levels it says: Negative < 100 Equivocal 100-120 Positive > 120 Same thing for the Anti-dsDNA Antibodies, which can indicate whether you have lupus or not. I'm negative on both, ANA was 55 and dsDNA was 10. That says to me, pretty unequivocally, that I do NOT have an autoimmune problem. Although my RA factor is on the high end, my sed rate is extremely low and my red blood cell count is good. He said that rules out rheumatoid arthritis. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 16:31:59 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:40:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e16dk9$e8q$1@news.spamcop.net... > > a log of how I feel each morning, what did I eat/drink the night before, and > what condition the bed is in when I wake up? I don't see how this is tied > into my aches and pains though. When you sleep, deep sleep, that's when your body manufactures growth hormone with which to repair the body every day, if you sleep less or get less deep sleep, you don't make enough growth hormone to repair your body from every day fatigue, wear and tear, and you feel tired, achy, sore. http://fibromyalgia.ncf.ca/anderson.htm Growth hormone is critical in maintaining and repairing muscle. The secretion of growth hormone occurs primarily during stage 4 sleep and this in turn results in a rise in somatomedin C. Serum levels of somatomedin C were found to be significantly lower in 70 fibromyalgia patients compared to 55 healthy controls. Persistently low levels of growth hormone secretion may predispose to muscle microtrauma and/or impair normal healing after muscle microtrauma or ischemia. A tryptophan-serotonin deficiency has been proposed. Tryptophan is a precursor to the neurotransmitter serotonin. Serotonin regulates deep, restorative non-REM sleep, affective status, circadian release of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), and the interpretation of painful stimuli. A lack of serotonin or its precusor could account for many of the symptoms reported by FM patients. Serum serotonin and tryptophan were significantly lower in FM patients than matched controls. On an interesting note, supplementing patients' diet with tryptophan improved sleep, but worsened the musculoskeletal pain. A number of other chemicals and their effects have been poorly studied, but they help explain the increased perception of pain, and the irritable bowel syndrome which oftens accompanies FM. > The IBS, on occasian, I definitely know was/is stress related. I can feel > the acid rush into my stomach along with a burst of adrenalin when I'm > thinking about something that upsets me. If the stomach acid is a problem, have you tried Prilosec for it on a regular basis? I don't know if it's the same as what you have been taking, but it works for me. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 16:43:43 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 15:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e16etl$esu$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Same thing for the Anti-dsDNA Antibodies, which can indicate whether you > have lupus or not. I'm negative on both, ANA was 55 and dsDNA was 10. That > says to me, pretty unequivocally, that I do NOT have an autoimmune problem. > Although my RA factor is on the high end, my sed rate is extremely low and > my red blood cell count is good. He said that rules out rheumatoid > arthritis. When they say that "no" antibodies is normal, the presence of them would make me do more homework. They might not be off the charts enough to get a doctor's attention, but it still may affect the way you feel. Maybe the soreness in the joints is related to a sleep problem then, that's not allowing your poor old body to repair itself? You might do some research to see if things like Ambien really help or hinder stage 4 sleep, I know that tricyclics help it, some of the OTC sleep medications totally screw it up, as does alcohol, caffiene, etc. Ambien for me sucks like a Hoover, I feel like wide awake roadkill. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 16:54:54 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 16:00:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e16etl$esu$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Same thing for the Anti-dsDNA Antibodies, which can indicate whether you > have lupus or not. I'm negative on both, ANA was 55 and dsDNA was 10. That > says to me, pretty unequivocally, that I do NOT have an autoimmune problem. > Although my RA factor is on the high end, my sed rate is extremely low and > my red blood cell count is good. He said that rules out rheumatoid > arthritis. Why was your RA factor high, did he have any explanation? Oh dear...syphilis! slut... http://www.medicinenet.com/rheumatoid_factor/article.htm Can rheumatoid factor be present in a patient without rheumatoid arthritis? Yes. Rheumatoid factor is also present in patients with other conditions, including other connective tissue diseases (such as systemic lupus erythematosus), some infectious diseases (such as infectious hepatitis, syphilis, infectious mononucleosis, parasites, and tuberculosis), liver disease, and sarcoidosis. Rheumatoid factor can also sometimes be present in normal individuals without diseases. This occurs more frequently in persons with family members who have rheumatoid arthritis. Interesting - maybe to do with your liver and cholesterol? http://www.webmd.com/hw/arthritis/hw42783.asp Factors that can interfere with your test and the accuracy of the results include: a.. Blood that is very high in fats, which may cause a falsely high rheumatoid factor (RF) result. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 17:10:59 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 16:15:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e16dk9$e8q$1@news.spamcop.net... > > If the stomach acid is a problem, have you tried Prilosec for it on a > regular basis? I don't know if it's the same as what you have been > taking, but it works for me. Yeah Zantac is similar to Prilosec. From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 17:13:39 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 16:20:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "indigo" wrote in message news:e16h0k$g6v$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Yeah Zantac is similar to Prilosec. > Ah right, Zantac, couldn't remember what you said - that didn't do squat for me ( I have had excess acid/reflux since I was a child) - now I know why......and maybe I should try it at night..... A viewer wants to know whether ranitidine (Zantac) can be more effective than Prilosec in controlling acid reflux in some patients? Dr. Marks: Prilosec Prevacid, Aciphex are proton pump inhibitors (PPI), drugs that are very effective in shutting down acid production by the stomach. Prilosec and other PPI drugs are most effective during the day, especially after meals. That is why they are taken just prior to meals. However, PPIs don't work as well at night. Ranitidine (Zantac) is a H2-receptor-blocker. Generally H2-receptor-blockers are not as effective as the PPI drugs in suppressing stomach acid production. However, Zantac and other H2-receptor blockers work particularly well at night. Therefore maximal round the clock acid suppression is achieved by using a PPI such as Prilosec two or three times a day before meals and a H2-receptor-blocker such as Zantac at bedtime. From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 17:22:30 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 16:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > "indigo" wrote in message > news:e16cnu$dn4$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > As I got back into shape and really > > started playing like normal, that is when my knees swelled up. > > Do you think it's a plausible explanation? Was I putting alot more stress on my knees? Absolutely. And when everyone and their brother (friends, relatives, doctors, people on NG's) tell me "you're getting old, no wonder your body hurts", you'd think maybe I might have to start listening to them? I think if I wouldn't have had that neck surgery which put me on my ass for 3 straight months with absolutely no excersise this may not have happened. Hell, you yourself constantly were telling me to slow down when I'd bitch about being sore! From nobody at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 17:24:46 2006 From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo) Date: Fri Apr 7 16:25:08 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > Factors that can interfere with your test and the accuracy of the > results include: > > a.. Blood that is very high in fats, which may cause a falsely high > rheumatoid factor (RF) result. Well duh. Hello Mr. 604 triglyceride level ! From nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 17:26:55 2006 From: nobody at devnulll.spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer) Date: Fri Apr 7 16:35:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] OUCH.... Message-ID: Wonder if Dan will cough up a loan..... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,26909-2123684,00.html With his long, lank hair and scruffy brown leather jacket, Richard Leigh did not look like a man with a spare million pounds in his pocket as he stood in a media scrum outside the High Court today. After losing a copyright claim against Random House, the publishers of Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code, Leigh, an American-born novelist and historian, and his colleague, Michael Baigent, have to make a down payment of £350,000 in the next 28 days. Even after that they will still owe £750,000 - plus their own costs, estimated in court at £800,000. It was one of the most expensive mistakes in British legal history and Leigh, shell-shocked by the verdict, admitted that he had no idea how he would find the money. "I welcome any suggestions on that," he said. From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Fri Apr 7 23:23:12 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Fri Apr 7 17:25:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: OUCH.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Spamvireslayer wrote: > Wonder if Dan will cough up a loan..... > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,26909-2123684,00.html > > With his long, lank hair and scruffy brown leather jacket, Richard Leigh did not look > like a man with a spare million pounds in his pocket as he stood in a media scrum > outside the High Court today. > > > > After losing a copyright claim against Random House, the publishers of Dan Brown's > The Da Vinci Code, Leigh, an American-born novelist and historian, and his colleague, > Michael Baigent, have to make a down payment of ?350,000 in the next 28 days. Even > after that they will still owe ?750,000 - plus their own costs, estimated in court at > ?800,000. > > It was one of the most expensive mistakes in British legal history and Leigh, > shell-shocked by the verdict, admitted that he had no idea how he would find the > money. "I welcome any suggestions on that," he said. > > They could write a book about how Jesus was really married to 'some' woman and how a certain church has been covering things up. They could even get a film made about it. They might have to watch out for someone stealing their ideas though From skiwi at spamcop.net Fri Apr 7 20:19:26 2006 From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi) Date: Fri Apr 7 22:20:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: "Danger UXB" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Skiwi wrote in news:e12dk1$3ea$1@news.spamcop.net: > >> Amazing what you find on Netflix, added this to my queue, got the first >> DVD today - brings back some memories of watching this as a kid in NZ... >> Trotting out the clich?, they don't make them like this any >> more... >> > > LOL, you'll be getting Thunderbirds and Fireball XL5 out next. hehehehehehe Hmmm... Don't forget Stingray! Did they make a Dan Dare cartoon? I couldn't find Citizen Smith or Space 1999, Bottom is OK (maybe I was in a different 'frame of mind' when I saw it originally), ditto Only Fools & Horses, no Open All Hours... and I don't have any tartan, wool slippers to wear whilst watching the later... Aside - I saw Thunderbirds done as a live show in Sydney once, very funny, just two actors, minimal props and amazing 'conjuring' skills... From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 06:18:14 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 05:20:14 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-5C8490.09083007042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Miss Betsy" wrote: > >> Atheists don't have to believe in the common viewpoint of society any >> more >> than they have to believe in religion. > > And some religious people don't believe in the common viewpoint of > their religion *or* society. How many Catholics use birth control? How > many priests have abused children? How many Christians have abandoned > their gay children? I think that is somewhat my point. To depend on what individuals either believe or do is not a reliable indicator of good and evil. Religion is not evil because some individuals in a religion do not follow its teachings (as in the case of the priests) or have followed its teachings (as in the Christians who have abandoned gay children). I wasn't being critical of atheists who don't accept the societal standard. In some cases, not accepting the standard may be 'good' I am sure that there were sailors who saw 'The Jesus' carrying slaves who were atheists and who deprecated the slave trade because they were compassionate. Just as the man who wrote 'Amazing Grace' was converted by Christianity from dealing in the slave trade. I think that what I am saying is that unless one believes that there is an absolute supernatural good then there is no evil. There is only the legal/illegal of society which depends on the cooperation/consent of individuals and can change - for the better or the worse - depending on your viewpoint. And IMHO, individuals (therefore any man made laws whether secular or religious) can't judge with certainty that any particular act by a particular individual is good or evil. There are Christians who accept gay children and Christians who abandon them - both sets of parents are doing what they think is best for the children (or they may be acting entirely from selfish interests). If my gay child were abusing young people, I couldn't 'accept' hir behavior. If my gay child was in a loving relationship, I could 'accept' it though I don't believe that homosexuality is 'good', but I am not the judge. Where there is love, there can't be evil. As far as society goes, IMHO, those who believe that marriage is a sacred union between man and woman should not have to condone 'gay' marriage by making it legal; however, they should not interfere with any civil contracts that make life convenient for gay couples nor with any religious ceremonies that gay people want to sacramentalize their union. But I am making those judgments against a supernatural standard that I don't quite understand. Choice is all important and is part of the good, but can lead to choosing badly - for ourselves and others. And why are there so many factors that influence us? Physical ones and psychological ones. Why is it so difficult to choose the good? Why does evil seem to be a part of everyone? It would be a lot easier for me to decide that this act is always good or that act is always evil and insist that those who don't agree are evil and that whatever I decide is good. Which is what many people do, either using religion as an easy way to make decisions or going with the flow of society (which includes many 'religious' laws since those who are churched think a 'good' society is what they believe). Either way it is what makes them 'feel' good that is the primary factor. I don't think that your comment has anything to do with whether there is a supernatural good and evil or whether there is no good and evil, just legal/illegal. It is a judgmental observation about other people's choices. Miss Betsy From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Sat Apr 8 11:05:18 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Sat Apr 8 06:10:06 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 08/04/2006 wrote: >>Yes, my old passport was machine readable, but, the photo was not. I >>believe porpoise was referring to the new machine readable photos with >>the holographic overlay which have come in since then. >> > >Oh right. I'll have to look at my old one and see if the photo looks >different. So you're saying that they encoded the photo into the <<<<>>>> >stuff at the bottom of the page? No, the photo itself is machine readable, the stuff at the bottom is just machine readable name and number exactly as you see it. Catch the photo in the light and you'll see the holograph overlay. Hold the page up to the light and you'll see transparent bits on the page, however, I'm not sure if these transparent bits have been placed on the page in a certain pattern and location to also be readable, would have to compare different passports to figure that out. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 07:09:13 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 06:10:21 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e167cd$a7p$1@news.spamcop.net... > You're trying to paint them as something they're not, just to fit your > religious indoctrination. Just as religionists do with other religions. > Whereas athiests just get on with the realities of life without attacking > those of whatever religious indoctrination - unless and until the > religionists get so zealous they start attacking others beliefs.... I disagree totally. Atheists are not all alike, any more than all followers of religion are alike. Some atheists may make their decisions based on what everyone else is doing, but others may be think what is good and bad is only what affects them in a good way or a bad way; others may think more deeply about cause and effect of actions. I am not attacking the 'unbeliefs' of atheists. They can make moral decisions about right and wrong, legal/illegal for themselves and in concert with others without using any supernatural standard if they want to. But to me, it is a misuse of the word 'evil' to judge illegal actions. It is like the gay marriages. Marriage is a union between a man and woman. Homosexuals can't get married. They can have civil unions; they can make religious commitments for a loving relationship, but they can't get married. Good and Evil are supernatural concepts. If you don't believe in the supernatural, then you don't believe in evil. You can't have your cake and eat it too. A lot of the high feeling (and I have said this before) about secular vs religious issues, IMHO, stems from the judgmental way that many secular advocates have about whatever believers say. I don't think that anything I have said has lumped all unbelievers into one category or even has been critical of unbelievers. I have never said that atheists couldn't decide well between right and wrong or contribute to the process of legal/illegal. I have even admitted that religious people often don't decide well. All I said was that I didn't think that atheists could believe in 'evil.' It has led to some interesting discussion about how would you know that there is a supernatural good and evil since religious laws and secular laws are created by man. Do humans have an innate sense of good (such as the babies helping) or do they have to learn it? And I resent that you, as atheist, don't allow me to have my viewpoint that there *is* a supernatural good and evil and that is ok for me to make my decisions based on that and that makes the way I make my decisions different than the way you make your decisions which are decisions between legal/illegal (including personal decisions that are not in conformance with codified legalities) - though the actual decisions may be identical. So instead of exploring whether good is universal and innate transcending cultures and how we recognize good - subjects that could be really interesting and are not limited to churched or unchurched, I am defending myself against attack as a bigot. Miss Betsy From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Sat Apr 8 11:13:22 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Sat Apr 8 06:15:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 08/04/2006 wrote: >>Not any more, they don't. Not unless the old one expires in nine months >>or less anyway: >> >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/04/early_passport_renewal_blocked/ >> >> > >What are the tories saying about all of this? Is there any opposition to >these ID cards in the population? If so, you'd think the Tories or Lib Dems >would make political hay out of it. Official surveys show that the majority of people are in favour of them, but, I have not yet talked to anyone that is. Everyone I've come across are very much against them. The House of Lords has thrown it out several times and demanded changes in the legislation. Opposition in the House of Commons is from all parties, yet, it still staggers through with amendments and Blair will over-rule the House of Lords if need be with new powers he's enacted. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com Sat Apr 8 11:17:30 2006 From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus) Date: Sat Apr 8 06:20:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat on 08/04/2006 wrote: >Yes, with the coil in. So anything issued from Feb onwards has the RFID >chip in it. It will be interesting to see if you have any problems by NOT >having RFID should you ever want to travel to the US. You might have to get >a visa before this passport expires. No problem with that, I decided when the US brought the need for us to have biometric passports etc. to travel to the US that I would not be doing so. My chief concern though is whether I need all this new technology to visit S America as flights have to travel through US air-space. -- Rob http://www.flickr.com/photos/canopus_archives/ From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 07:44:16 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 06:45:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979EB82259B72sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Mr K. Mean" wrote in > news:e12mvo$999$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> I don't understand. Are you saying that a lack of belief in god also >> means that that person has absolutely no idea about right and wrong? > > This is the repeated impression I get from Miss Betsy. She doesn't seem to > think that those of us who do not believe in god can be 'good' people. When did I ever say that those who don't believe in god are not 'good' people? There have been plenty of blanket negative comments about those who believe here, but I don't think you can find a blanket judgment of mine that anyone who doesn't believe in God or doesn't go to church has any particular characteristics such as hypocrisy or selfishness or stupidity. It just popped in my head that 'evil' is a supernatural concept and those who don't believe in the supernatural really don't believe in 'evil' - that what is right and wrong to them is not good and evil, but legal/illegal. Using words correctly (or defining them for debate) is important. Why would you suppose that I would condemn someone as evil who doesn't believe in evil? Or assume that I think because you choose between legal and illegal rather good and evil that you are making bad choices or can't make a correct choice? Or is it the other way around? You say 'Bush is evil' and 'Bush is religious' as synonyms. Does that make me who am religious, also evil? When I said that rather than saying creationism isn't science and implying that it is wrong, I said that saying science doesn't answer the question of why there is life and doesn't answer all the questions of the beginnings of life so there is no comparison with creationism is a better argument for excluding it from the science classroom, everyone assumed that I was a creationist. Even when I explicitly stated that I agreed with scientific studies about mutations, etc. I thought that we had a couple of good items for discussion - like how would one know a supernatural good and evil? Do people have innate 'consciences'? Instead people are putting words in my mouth. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 07:48:54 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 06:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Frog Prince" wrote in message news:e15ri7$29p$1@news.spamcop.net... > "Miss Betsy" > > | > Me thinking Bush and Co. for starters. but you are very correct their > name > | > are legion and include the insurance and drug industry > | > | Do you include your insurance agent's name in that list? > > The agent is not the problem the company however ... > > Recall anyone that believe you can't cheat an honest man has never had to > deal with an insurance claim. But the company is composed of agents.... And I am beginning to think that insurance is an 'evil' or is it because there are too many people willing to try to cheat that the honest man gets burned by the insurance company trying to defend against them? Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:03:35 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-B03BC9.09203707042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Miss Betsy" wrote: > >> As my mother used to say, name three secular non-religiously affliated >> leaders who have protested war in general (not a specific war for >> specific >> reasons). > > It is pretty hard to become a leader of a movement when you are a > member of the single most hated minority in the USA. Can you name three > secular non-religiously affliated leaders who lead any movement other > than secularism? (they don't all have to be in the same movement) I don't know my history or my current affairs well enough. However, Thomas Jefferson was secular, wasn't he? Eugene Debs also comes to mind, but I don't know what his beliefs were. I don't know about Ralph Nader's beliefs. My point was that societal change has been sparked by religious leaders preaching change because of religious convictions as well as created wars and holocausts. >From this discussion, it appears that secularism, in general, is more individual than societal. Those who are primarily secular don't lead movements to change society. Miss Betsy From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 8 13:11:13 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:15:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in > news:Xns979D4DDCFCAC9TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61: > > >> Dude - I've seen the ads! Magnets are good for you! >> > > But really strong ones aren't, right? I don't know... Countless MRI scans and I am ok (ish). And the degaussing rings we used on RN Warships were some of the biggest magnets you've ever seen. Took them a few years to work out why all of the photocopy machines started hosing up (uses toner which contains metal, always ended up moving towards the side of the ship). Then hard drives started failing for no reason... Took them years to realize that the degaussing rings were causing it. (Degaussing rings are used to nullify the effects of the ship becoming magnetized as it sails round the earth and 'other' things) From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 8 13:15:04 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:15:15 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > Skiwi wrote in news:e126o9$vk7$2@news.spamcop.net: > > >> Also full frontal view now (some of the paperwork is outdated, I had >> to resubmit some of mine) and no smiling - i.e., you face should be >> relaxed so that can scan, process and compare your face against a >> database automagically as you walk through the airport (or soon to be >> anywhere?) >> > > The UK one always was full frontal view. Was the NZ one not? You can have a > faint smile but not a big cheesy grin. And yeah, I guess they pass on the > data to various law enforcement agencies so if you're seen on a security > camera they can perhaps identify you from your biometric data. How do you think they caught the London Bombers so quick. So much of London is hooked up to CCTV, they had the images of the bombers within hours. It was just a case of tracking them down and identifying the others in the cells before they released the photo's to Joe Public From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:16:13 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:20:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e166gr$9gh$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" wrote in message > news:e15ius$t7e$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > >> >> It was because of these 'religionists' last century - Martin Luther King >> and Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II and I don't have time to >> think of others now, that more and more people are protesting war - not >> any secular leaders that I can think of. > > If you really think that then you truly are lost...... The reason more and > more people (note, I say people - not leaders) are protesting war, is > because of the modern instant news society we live in allowing everyone to > see the realities of war live in their own living rooms > >> >> As my mother used to say, name three secular non-religiously affliated >> leaders who have protested war in general (not a specific war for >> specific reasons). > > Irrelevant. Each country has but one leader - and millions of people. It's > the people that count. That is a possibility. However, public hangings and such didn't turn people against using brutality against criminals. It would be interesting to research when and why people no longer wanted to see that brutality. I would bet that it was because of a change in climate because of some who started preaching the dignity of all - even sinners. And another argument, studies seem to show that people get desensitized to violence by seeing a lot of it. OTOH, with preachers preaching that this is brutality AND it being graphically seen, it makes the preachers' arguments stronger. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:18:48 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:20:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-4F5A31.09125707042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Miss Betsy" wrote: > >> I, too, think that society is maturing, but I think it is because of >> religion. > > It could just as easily be despite religion. And why is that? Miss Betsy From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 8 13:25:56 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:30:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sylvesterthekat wrote: > "Canopus" wrote in > news:e12t09$c8r$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> What, with the coil in? I got mine in January, but, it should have >> been renewed this month. You don't loose out renewing them early, >> they cancel your old one and add the difference to your new one. So >> if what you say is true then by getting it a few months early I won't >> have to be bothered with being a guinea pig for the new gizmo for >> another 10 years...Hooray! :) >> > > Yes, with the coil in. So anything issued from Feb onwards has the RFID > chip in it. It will be interesting to see if you have any problems by NOT > having RFID should you ever want to travel to the US. You might have to get > a visa before this passport expires. > Not quite true. As I mentioned previously, sent my two boys passports off last week and got them back on Thursday. One with the RFID (even has a fancy chip logo on the front cover to identify it), and the other did not. From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:32:55 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:35:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Mr K. Mean" wrote in message news:e169dv$bfj$1@news.spamcop.net... > Porpoise wrote: >> >> "Miss Betsy" wrote in message >>> >>> It was because of these 'religionists' last century - Martin Luther King >>> and Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II and I don't have time >>> to think of others now, that more and more people are protesting war - >>> not any secular leaders that I can think of. >> >> If you really think that then you truly are lost...... The reason more >> and more people (note, I say people - not leaders) are protesting war, is >> because of the modern instant news society we live in allowing everyone >> to see the realities of war live in their own living rooms > > I was going to say that the Holocaust and the tv coverage of Vietnam > probably had a whole lot to do with it too. And inexpensive international > travel and probably the internet making the world a smaller place. > >>> As my mother used to say, name three secular non-religiously affliated >>> leaders who have protested war in general (not a specific war for >>> specific reasons). >> >> Irrelevant. Each country has but one leader - and millions of people. >> It's the people that count. > > Ok, so a quick web search for Vietnam protesters comes up with Bertrand > Russell (set up the International War Crimes Tribunal) who is rather > unreligious. I wouldn't consider a bunch of the musicians who protested > in the 60s, like the Beatles, various folk singers, etc, to be affiliated > with religion. Some of them might be religious but that wasn't their main > point. I don't believe that the Students for a Democratic Society had any > particular religious affiliation, so like Tom Hayden, and whoever else. > Or anybody from the Black Power movement like Stokely Carmichael. Bertrand Russell is a good choice, but Vietnam protesters don't count because for the most part they were not against war, but that particular war. And it does matter whether they are religious or not. It wasn't King's or Ghandi's point to be religious either. The point is that their religious beliefs led them to campaign for change. (And just to be clear - IMHO, non-religious people can also be led by their convictions to campaign for change which could be good or evil just like religious leaders who both have led wars and opposed war.) Artists (including musicians like the Beatles) often contribute a lot to change by their art which, in order to be successful, IMHO, needs to have 'soul' - an understanding that the 'people' also have but can't express as eloquently as the artist. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:34:28 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:35:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Porpoise" wrote in message news:e166pt$9qa$1@news.spamcop.net... > > "Miss Betsy" wrote in message > news:e15jcs$tg3$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > >> >> My point is that 'rape and pillage' have always been and will always be >> 'evil' - no matter how many people think it is ok. But that is because I >> believe in something more than law. >> > > And my point is that whether it is law or not isn't entirely relevant - > it's what most people (whether religious or not) consider (through genral > consensus) is "good" or "evil" that matters. And that has no bearing on > whether or not they believe in any supernatural entity (in spite of what > the religionists would have everyone toe their particular religious > dogmatic line). So, if society went backwards where rape and pillage were the norm, then they would be good? Miss Betsy From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Apr 8 13:37:56 2006 From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:40:04 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi References: Message-ID: "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message news:e16amd$c91$1@news.spamcop.net... > > > I know that's probably a good idea, but sheesh.......how >> the heck am I going to relax when I come home from a terrible day at >> work? >> On normal days, not so big a problem....but what about the days I'm all >> wound up, like the other day when I jokingly said I wanted that woman at >> work strangled because she was driving me insane? One strong cocktail >> later >> I had forgotten all about her that night after I got home! It's such a >> simple solution to stressful times....but it may be contributing to some >> of >> my health problems, I have to face up to that :-( And I need to figure >> out >> how to handle stress better without chemical remedies. Anyone got any >> advice >> on THAT one? > > Yoga? Tai Chi? From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:40:44 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:45:02 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "David Dean" wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-EDFBBF.09111007042006@frylock.local... > In article , > "Miss Betsy" wrote: > >> For a realistic answer, even when religion is banned, it persists. For a >> more theoretical answer, individuals can always listen to the Spirit. >> They >> may not be churchgoers, but they believe in 'good' and 'evil' not law. > > But wouldn't that be what you called merely morality? It isn't > relying on a supernatural definition of good and evil for sure. It is hard (maybe even impossible) to be sure that something is supernatural rather than just an inexplicable natural phenomenon. However, something that doesn't change has to be supernatural. And if one is convinced that good or evil can always be recognized because they are unchanging, then it would be a supernatural concept. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:47:44 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:50:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Chris Wright" wrote in message news:e15v0j$4b7$1@news.spamcop.net... > Many wars were fought on the justification that 'they' were not > 'Christians' therefore needed to be wiped from the face of the earth (I am > talking about the crusades here not your catholic/protestant divide et > al). > Wars happen now because of greed or fear. Greed because they have > something we want, or fear because we feel our way of life is threatened. > > Was not slavery abolished just because it was wrong? Regardless of where > the pressure came from, it was plain wrong, but again born out of greed. > > You would think that in the 21st century where most of the planet are able > to tolerate any color of skin because we are used to seeing the various > multinationals around the world, but then we don't have a tolerance of > religion. > I don't care if my neighbors are black or white, but there are areas in > the world where differences in religion divide communities. > > So I would suggest that religion is far from mature, or at a stage where > tolerance is practiced as a majority, rather than a minority. > I don't see it maturing any time soon either, as long as we always will > have the 'my god is the only god' brigade. Greed is economic. And I think that there are historians who think that the Crusades had an economic basis. Religion is no different than states or companies - they are all made up of individuals. Really what you are saying is that there are a lot of immature individuals still left in the world. Just as the US Government is not a perfect model of government by the people, for the people, of the people neither are the major religions perfect models of what they proclaim to be. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 08:54:10 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:55:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979EBB7361EF8sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > David Dean wrote in news:ozchzhq02- > ACC88F.09140006042006@frylock.local: > > >> Are you one of those people who think atheists cannot be moral? Why >> does the standard have to be supernatural? >> > > because the bible says so? the standard of good and evil would have to be supernatural, but the standard of legal/illegal does not have to be. They both define right and wrong. At least, it does seem to me that that is the difference between the morality of religionists and atheists. That doesn't mean that atheists and religionists can't come to the same conclusions of what is right and wrong - however, the religionist says it is evil; the atheist says it is illegal. Didn't someone say that atheists are realists just getting on with the business of living? in reality, things are legal or illegal, have natural consequences or created consequences. Miss Betsy From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 8 13:55:14 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 8 07:55:10 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: Ping Heidi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Porpoise wrote: > > "Spamvireslayer" wrote in message > news:e16amd$c91$1@news.spamcop.net... >> > >> >> I know that's probably a good idea, but sheesh.......how >>> the heck am I going to relax when I come home from a terrible day at >>> work? >>> On normal days, not so big a problem....but what about the days I'm all >>> wound up, like the other day when I jokingly said I wanted that woman at >>> work strangled because she was driving me insane? One strong cocktail >>> later >>> I had forgotten all about her that night after I got home! It's such a >>> simple solution to stressful times....but it may be contributing to >>> some of >>> my health problems, I have to face up to that :-( And I need to >>> figure out >>> how to handle stress better without chemical remedies. Anyone got any >>> advice >>> on THAT one? >> >> Yoga? > > Tai Chi? Bok Choi From chris.a.wright at gmail.com Sat Apr 8 14:00:48 2006 From: chris.a.wright at gmail.com (Chris Wright) Date: Sat Apr 8 08:05:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miss Betsy wrote: > "Chris Wright" wrote in message > news:e15v0j$4b7$1@news.spamcop.net... > > Many wars were fought on the justification that 'they' were not >> 'Christians' therefore needed to be wiped from the face of the earth (I am >> talking about the crusades here not your catholic/protestant divide et >> al). >> Wars happen now because of greed or fear. Greed because they have >> something we want, or fear because we feel our way of life is threatened. >> >> Was not slavery abolished just because it was wrong? Regardless of where >> the pressure came from, it was plain wrong, but again born out of greed. >> >> You would think that in the 21st century where most of the planet are able >> to tolerate any color of skin because we are used to seeing the various >> multinationals around the world, but then we don't have a tolerance of >> religion. >> I don't care if my neighbors are black or white, but there are areas in >> the world where differences in religion divide communities. >> >> So I would suggest that religion is far from mature, or at a stage where >> tolerance is practiced as a majority, rather than a minority. >> I don't see it maturing any time soon either, as long as we always will >> have the 'my god is the only god' brigade. > > Greed is economic. And I think that there are historians who think that the > Crusades had an economic basis. I agree, Religion was only used as a cover up for carrying them out. (You did say that before and I should have agreed back then). Its similar to the "Why are Catholic Priests Not allowed to marry?" It has nothing to do with religion at all. It goes back to the days when a priest would marry, then divorce, or his wife dies, and then remarry. When the priest finally croaked himself, there would be a struggle over who gained the rights to the priests property. The Church always argued it was theirs, so in the end they banned Priests from marrying. Nothing to do with religion whatsoever. Religions make the rules up for themselves because they 'think' it is what 'He' would want. > > Religion is no different than states or companies - they are all made up of > individuals. Really what you are saying is that there are a lot of immature > individuals still left in the world. > > Just as the US Government is not a perfect model of government by the > people, for the people, of the people neither are the major religions > perfect models of what they proclaim to be. > > Miss Betsy > > From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 09:05:44 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 08:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979EB7DE049E4sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Miss Betsy" wrote in > news:e12lgb$8ec$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in a higher power >> can believe in evil. If there is no supernatural standard, then acts >> are neutral as far as good or evil goes. > > You are assigning some sort of mystical concept to the word evil. Evil to > me means that you are behaving in a vindictive, nasty, conscienceless way > and causing harm to others. It has nothing to do with religion or 'higher > powers'. Yes, I am making a special definition (and I said so early on). the dictionary definition is anything morally wrong. Since atheists can be 'moral' then they can use the word for what they have defined as immoral. The word does convey to me religious overtones, however, since evil is devils and evil people go to hell. I think that it is important to be clear on what the differences are between living an atheistic life and a religious life are in order to avoid conflict. some atheists have described discrimination against them and I claim that I feel discrimination here. But perhaps if we were more careful about our language, some of those feelings wouldn't have to be. Miss Betsy From blacklist-me at davjam.org Sat Apr 8 14:46:52 2006 From: blacklist-me at davjam.org (David Bolt) Date: Sat Apr 8 09:00:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: RFID in a passport References: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Canopus wrote:- >Official surveys show that the majority of people are in favour of >them, but, I have not yet talked to anyone that is. Everyone I've come >across are very much against them. In that case, it's probably because you've never talked to any of the 109 Scots[0] that said they were in favour of them. >The House of Lords has thrown it out several times and demanded changes >in the legislation. Opposition in the House of Commons is from all >parties, yet, it still staggers through with amendments Are you really surprised. The only time they seem to pay attention to the public, who they are supposed to serve, is when there's a General Election, and even then they only seem to pay lip service. >and Blair will over-rule the House of Lords if need be with new powers >he's enacted. Unfortunately, that's probably going to be the case. [0] Regards, David Bolt -- Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 50 Mnodes/s: http://www.distributed.net/ AMD1800 1Gb WinXP/SUSE 9.3 | AMD2400 256Mb SuSE 9.0 | A3010 4Mb RISCOS 3.11 AMD2400(32) 768Mb SUSE 10.0 | Falcon 14Mb TOS 4.02 | A4000 4Mb RISCOS 3.11 AMD2600(64) 512Mb SUSE 10.0 | | RPC600 129Mb RISCOS 3.6 From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 14:47:02 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 13:50:09 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979F5AD3F41E2sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Miss Betsy" wrote in > news:e145pm$5t7$1@news.spamcop.net: > > >> There is no standard for an atheist except hir own standard. One >> atheist can opt for this 'right' or that 'wrong' and another atheist >> cancel that out. The only way atheists can agree on right and wrong is >> by making laws. > > Now you've confirmed to all of us that you are indeed prejudiced against > those of us who do not feel the need to follow a religion. Your attitude > is > offensive. And guess what, I didn't have to make a law to decide that! So what is offensive about saying that atheists do not belong to a 'group' that has dogma? that they are individuals who participate in society by making civil laws governing morality when they think laws are necessary for society to work well? that one atheist does not speak for all atheists? I have been so careful not to attribute any one attitude toward all atheists - which IMHO would be offensive and prejudiced. I don't agree with you about the need for religion nor with your denial of a spiritual dimension to life. Is that what is offensive? Since I have appeared offensive to you, does that now make me evil? Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 14:58:43 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 14:00:05 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Sylvesterthekat" wrote in message news:Xns979F68D3D3182sylvesterthekat@216.154.195.61... > "Miss Betsy" wrote in > news:e15ihi$suf$1@news.spamcop.net: > >> Again, I agree with you - the tendency towards fundamentalism is very >> troubling. However, I don't agree that letting society define good >> and evil is any better. > > Who else is going to define it? There is no one else. Only us, ie those of > us who perceive good and evil. But when people are for or against those things that others consider good or evil (like abortion, gay marriages, intelligent design, and there are probably less controversial issues like the treatment of lab animals), they are evil and trying to force their beliefs on others. Again, if you want to enact laws that reflect your views of what is good or evil, then you have to give the same right to others and if you lose, then you are not being forced any more than they are being forced if you win. Unless, of course, it is moral to force people to do it the 'good' way or punish those who don't conform. Miss Betsy From devnull at spamcop.net Sat Apr 8 15:06:07 2006 From: devnull at spamcop.net (Miss Betsy) Date: Sat Apr 8 14:10:03 2006 Subject: [SpamCop-Social] Re: So much for the power of prayer.... References: Message-ID: "Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns979F745E148A5TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61... > No way it was me! It was "Miss Betsy" ! > >> Bertrand Russell is a good choice, but Vietnam protesters don't count >> because for the most part they were not against war, but that particular >> war. > > Um. What? I know you're not kidding, but it seems like something that > one > would say in jest. I suppose that means that we must just not see the > world in the same way... > > And, actually, yes, I am saying that kids these days (since protesters > tend > to be kids, eh?) are lazy and good for nuthin' - they -should- be out > there > protesting the idiot who started this war. I am not saying that protesting Vietnam or Iraq wars should not happen. It is against 'war' and for peaceful means of c